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Title: Deforestation Unveils Lost Amazon Civilization
Source: Discovery.com
URL Source: http://news.discovery.com/earth/def ... -lost-amazon-civilization.html
Published: Jan 7, 2010
Author: Michael Reilly
Post Date: 2010-01-08 23:03:43 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 11433
Comments: 96

Who would've thought deforestation had an upside?

Satellite flyovers of newly cleared land in the Amazon have uncovered a vanished civilization that could rival the Incans or Aztecs in sophistication.

Researchers found mysterious geometric trenches and other earthworks carved into the landscape as early as a decade ago, but satellites have paved the way for the discovery of over 200 giant structures.

Writing in the journal Antiquity, the researchers say the the formations stretch for some 250 kilometers (155 miles) across the upper Amazon basin east of the Andes mountains and appear to be of a similar style throughout, suggesting one vast, united civilization that could have totaled some 60,000 inhabitants.

Researchers also found stone tools, bits of ceramics, and other artifacts buried in mounds along the trenches. So far, the uncovered areas date to between 200 and 1283 A.D., but the team thinks they've seen "no more than a tenth" of the true extent of this archeological wonder. More from an article which appeared Tuesday in the Guardian:

"These revelations are exploding our perceptions of what the Americas really looked liked before the arrival of Christopher Columbus," said David Grann, author of "The Lost City of Z," a book about an attempt in the 1920s to find signs of Amazonian civilizations. "The discoveries are challenging long-held assumptions about the Amazon as a Hobbesian place where only small primitive tribes could ever have existed, and about the limits the environment placed on the rise of early civilisations."

ElDorado2 They are also vindicating, said Grann, Percy Fawcett, the explorer who partly inspired Conan Doyle's book "The Lost World."

Fawcett led an expedition to find the City of Z but the party vanished, bequeathing a mystery.

Many scientists saw the jungle as too harsh to sustain anything but small nomadic tribes. Now it seems the conquistadores who spoke of "cities that glistened in white" were telling the truth.

They, however, probably also introduced the diseases that wiped out the native people, leaving the jungle to claim – and hide – all traces of their civilization.


Poster Comment:

Who would've thought deforestation had an upside?

There is no upside. The planet is unquestionably dying with the Arctic melting, the destruction of coral reefs and the average temperature climbing at rates that demand a complete stop to deforestation releasing CO2.

I strongly recommend that for the preservation of all mankind that we consider methods of conservation quickly.

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#1. To: buckeroo (#0)

Thank god they were found. Their ancient sages have much to teach. Like using leaves to wipe, brushing one's tooth with a twig bi-weekly and stealing Intertube signals from near by cities.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-01-08   23:14:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: buckeroo (#0)

Wait... You're serious? You think the planet is dying?

Maybe your planet, but the one I'm living on isn't. It's doing just fine, and when all of us crazy little humans are dead and gone, it'll still be here flourishing.

It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2010-01-08   23:15:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)

You think the planet is dying?

Yes. No question about it. Here is one chart describing deforestation:

The forest is not being hauled away to make lumber. It is being burned; that series of manmade processes releases CO2 into the environment.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-08   23:24:00 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Jethro Tull (#1)

Thank god they were found.

2012 is your style, Jethro? I thought you were happy with "Y2K" phenomena.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-08   23:25:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: buckeroo (#0)



No CO2 increase in last 150 years

The trend since 1850 has been "essentially zero"

31 Dec 09 - New research finds that the airborne fraction of carbon dioxide has not increased either during the past 150 years or during the most recent five decades, contrary to some recent studies. See entire article" www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091230184221.htm


"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   0:42:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Original_Intent (#5)

ScienceDaily (Dec. 31, 2009) — Most of the carbon dioxide emitted by human activity does not remain in the atmosphere, but is instead absorbed by the oceans and terrestrial ecosystems. In fact, only about 45 percent of emitted carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere.

However, some studies have suggested that the ability of oceans and plants to absorb carbon dioxide recently may have begun to decline and that the airborne fraction of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions is therefore beginning to increase.

Many climate models also assume that the airborne fraction will increase. Because understanding of the airborne fraction of carbon dioxide is important for predicting future climate change, it is essential to have accurate knowledge of whether that fraction is changing or will change as emissions increase.

To assess whether the airborne fraction is indeed increasing, Wolfgang Knorr of the Department of Earth Sciences at the University of Bristol reanalyzed available atmospheric carbon dioxide and emissions data since 1850 and considers the uncertainties in the data.

In contradiction to some recent studies, he finds that the airborne fraction of carbon dioxide has not increased either during the past 150 years or during the most recent five decades.

The research is published in Geophysical Research Letters.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   0:46:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Original_Intent (#5)

Get a clue from your own posts, will ya?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   0:48:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: buckeroo, farmfriend, wudidiz, Lod, James Deffenbach, all (#0)

We do need desperately to clean up the environment, but CO2 is a false flag environmental scam.

The real problems are (not that this is all of them):

The dumping of radioactive waste in the ocean.

The growing dead spots in the ocean.

The massive amounts of toxic plastics, garbage, etc., dumped in the ocean.

Overfishing the oceans (along with rising mercury levels in fish making them toxic as food).

Toxic waste dumping by industrial companies.

Mercury Poisoning from Power Plants, Mining, and industrial waste.

GMO Frankenfood Plants toxifying the entire food chain.

The high levels of pharmaceuticals showing up in waste water and eventually finding their way into the environment.

The use of inefficient internal combustion engines - the mileage of which could be minimally doubled with some of the suppressed technology.

Coal Fired Power Plants dumping carbon soot, sulfur compounds, and mercury into the air.

We may have already passed the tipping point to environmental catastrophe, and CO2/Glowbull Warming is nothing more than a diversion from the real problems that need solution yesterday.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   0:52:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: buckeroo (#7)

In contradiction to some recent studies, he finds that the airborne fraction of carbon dioxide has not increased either during the past 150 years or during the most recent five decades.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   0:54:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Original_Intent (#8)

The real problems are (not that this is all of them):

The dumping of radioactive waste in the ocean.

The growing dead spots in the ocean.

The massive amounts of toxic plastics, garbage, etc., dumped in the ocean.

Overfishing the oceans (along with rising mercury levels in fish making them toxic as food).

Toxic waste dumping by industrial companies.

Mercury Poisoning from Power Plants, Mining, and industrial waste.

GMO Frankenfood Plants toxifying the entire food chain.

The high levels of pharmaceuticals showing up in waste water and eventually finding their way into the environment.

The use of inefficient internal combustion engines - the mileage of which could be minimally doubled with some of the suppressed technology.

Coal Fired Power Plants dumping carbon soot, sulfur compounds, and mercury into the air.

Thank you O_I for coming forward on very important issues confronting ALL of us.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   0:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Original_Intent (#9)

All he says is that anthropogenic contributions have little contributions based upon his research. The FACT remains: CO2 emissions are CLIMBING at a rapid rate over the past 150 years.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   1:01:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: buckeroo, farmfriend, James Deffenbach (#11)

Based on what evidence from a legitimate and untainted source?

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   1:10:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, Lod (#11)

All he says is that anthropogenic contributions have little contributions based upon his research. The FACT remains: CO2 emissions are CLIMBING at a rapid rate over the past 150 years.

Over all CO2 has increased as have the sinks. While man may have increased emissions the percentage contributed by man has not changed. Moreover, there is no evidence that an increase in CO2, whether anthropogenic or natura, is bad. There is historic evidence that higher CO2 levels are good actually as are warmer temperatures.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   1:18:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Original_Intent (#12)

Based on what evidence from a legitimate and untainted source?

Are you saying that CO2 is not climbing in concentrations around the world? Well, it certainly is. Look over any urban city AROUND the world in modern western cultures ... and do you note: automobile exteriors (over a few years) look old and fragmented?

It is because of the CO2 concentrations in that same local proximity. The CO2 concentrations in combination with both sulfur and chloride in the atmosphere create acids; creating acid rain, covering the automobile exteriors rotting away the otherwise beautiful appearance of a fine assemblyline modern machine.

Just as the same in the oceans and the seas around the world destroying the balances of nature there.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   1:20:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: farmfriend (#13)

There is historic evidence that higher CO2 levels are good actually as are warmer temperatures.

Where? Israel and Washington DC, filled with hot-aire?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   1:26:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: buckeroo, farmfriend (#14)

I will concede the point that possibly CO2 levels have shown a modest increase.

However, as farmfriend points out there is no evidence that it is necessarily a bad thing. The Earth has historically had much higher levels of CO2 than are currently in the atmosphere.

We're still here.

Imagine that.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   1:28:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#15)

Where? Israel and Washington DC, filled with hot-aire?

The renaissance, the Roman period and the proliferation of the Vikings were all done under warmer conditions.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   1:31:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#16)

We're still here.

And so are the corals!


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   1:32:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#0)

Many scientists saw the jungle as too harsh to sustain anything but small nomadic tribes. Now it seems the conquistadores who spoke of "cities that glistened in white" were telling the truth.

This was a very extensive civilization and they created a soil that we can not duplicate today. We are trying though.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   1:34:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Original_Intent (#16)

I will concede the point that possibly CO2 levels have shown a modest increase.

Thank you. Increasingly, you are becoming a someone that I can chat with objectively. One of the benefits of chit-chat web-sites is that if we show a sense of respect for each other, irrespective of opinion, it is possible to be friends.

And that is a sincere objective of mine. I am a degreed engineer with a MSEE in the electrical/electronics world. And I have no need to state that I am an expert in geophysics. But, I must say basic chemistry suggests there are many free atoms combining and making compounds and solutions and when man releases the genie ... we are seeing the impact around the world.

In America, we are blessed for the most part. Still, there is a HUGE water shortage confronting the SouthWest. It is undeniable, that overpopulation in conjunction with random methods of industry to make a buck have created a dying planet.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   1:41:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: farmfriend (#17)

The renaissance, the Roman period and the proliferation of the Vikings were all done under warmer conditions.

Those times did not have the natural resource extractions that we see today. During those times, maybe 100,000,000 people around the world? And today ... 6.7Bn? BIG_DIFFERENCE.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   1:44:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: buckeroo (#21)

Actually I think populations were higher than we know.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   1:45:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: farmfriend (#22)

Please explain. Please remember, natural resource extraction is proportionate to population levels.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   1:47:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: farmfriend, buckeroo, wudidiz (#19)

Many scientists saw the jungle as too harsh to sustain anything but small nomadic tribes. Now it seems the conquistadores who spoke of "cities that glistened in white" were telling the truth.

This was a very extensive civilization and they created a soil that we can not duplicate today. We are trying though.

They did some other interesting stuff apparently with plants.

Take for example the Banana. It has no seeds and the plant produces no seeds. It is propagated solely by root cuttings. Bananas are, by the way, a perfect food. You can subsist on nothing but Bananas and water and not suffer any dietary deficiencies.

Amaranth, the grain of the Incas, is the only grain, so far as I am aware, that has ALL essential amino acids.

I'm sure there are likely others but those are the two I am aware of.

As well is the scale and sophistication of the structures. The largest Pyramid, found outside of Mexico City, is EIGHT miles around at the base. By way of comparison the Pentagram is only 5 miles around.

There are things in the Amazon Basin which no modern man has seen up close and lived. The natives in the area are, based on their legends and such, very protective of them. If you try to visit them they will kill you as it is sacred ground.

Landsat photos of one area in the Amazon jungle spotted a group of Pyramidal "hills" that are identical in form to the Egyptian Pyramids. Click Here for Link to Photos

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   1:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: buckeroo (#23)

Please explain. Please remember, natural resource extraction is proportionate to population levels.

Clarification, I'm not sure what it is you wish me to explain.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   1:56:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: farmfriend (#25)

Actually I think populations were higher than we know.

Post#22.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   1:58:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Original_Intent (#24)

Aricle link

Dark secret of the soil hints at Amazon kingdoms

High along bluffs overlooking the confluence of the mighty Negro and Solomues rivers, super-sized eggplants, papayas and cassava are flourishing.

Their exuberance defies a long-held belief about the Amazon. For much of the last half-century, archaeologists have viewed the South American rainforest as a "counterfeit paradise" whose inhospitable environment precluded the development of complex societies.

But new research suggests that prehistoric people found ways to overcome the jungle's natural limitations and thrive in large numbers.

The secret, say the theory's proponents, is in the ground under their feet. The fertile soil called terra preta do indio, Portuguese for Indian black earth, was either intentionally created by these pre-Columbian people or is the accidental by-product of their presence.

The research has implications not only for history but for the future of the Amazon rainforest. If scientists could discover how the indigenous populations transformed the soil, farmers could use the technology to maximise the productivity of smaller plots of land, rather than cutting down ever larger swathes of jungle. The benefits of this "gift from the past" are already known to farmers in the area, who plant crops wherever they find terra preta.

"It's made by pre-Columbian Indians and it's still fertile," said Bruno Glaser, a soil chemist from the University of Bayreuth in Germany, who took samples of terra preta recently near the jungle town of Iranduba. "If we knew how to do this it would be a model for agriculture in the whole region."

This specially modified soil is scattered across millions of hectares in the rainforest, in some areas comprising 10 per cent of the ground area. It is typically packed with potsherds and other signs of human habitation.

"We believe there weren't just tribal societies here, but rather, complex chiefdoms, and we're providing the proof," said James Petersen, an archaeologist at the University of Vermont who has spent the past decade working in the Brazilian Amazon.

His team of American and Brazilian archaeologists has excavated more than 60 sites rich in terra preta near the jungle city of Manaus, where the Negro and Solomues rivers merge to form the Amazon River proper.

The archaeologists also cite evidence of giant plazas, bridges, roads and defensive ditches. The earliest signs of large, sedentary populations appear to coincide with the beginnings of terra preta.

"Something happened 2500 years ago, and we don't know what," said a Brazilian archaeologist, Eduardo Neves.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   2:01:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: buckeroo, farmfriend, wudidiz, Lod, James Deffenbach, all (#23)

Please explain. Please remember, natural resource extraction is proportionate to population levels.

The ruins buried in the jungles are extensive and very sophisticated. There are all sorts of interesting anomalies and artefacts.

For example Guatemala is criss crossed with a very sophisticated canal system which no one even knew was there, buried as it was in jungle, until the satelite photos taken from above highlighted the lines of the canals and on site investigation confirmed their existence.

Another interesting tidbit is that as much as China, and the Chinese, revere Jade China has no Jade mines whatsoever. However, Guatemala does and they have been worked extensively in prehistory.

Strange Stone Spheres have turned up in central america, some larger in diameter than a man. Even more puzzling is that they are smooth and they are perfectly true spheres.Link Why they were made no one knows. Who made them no one knows. Some Archaeologists have tried to credit them to the Olmecs but there is no real evidence to support that.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:01:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: buckeroo (#26)

Post#22.

That much I understand. I'm unclear as to what you are after.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   2:02:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Original_Intent (#24)

Take for example the Banana. It has no seeds and the plant produces no seeds.

Nice try, pal.

But you are talking about those varieties that mankind has cultured for the world markets. Wild bananas, as all fruits are naturally seed bearing plants.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:03:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, wudidiz, Lod, James Deffenbach (#28)

The ruins buried in the jungles are extensive and very sophisticated.

That's the thing, it isn't just the South American jungles. There is evidence of extensive populations in North America, Anchor Wat etc. Every time we say there couldn't have been that many people someplace evidence comes up to bite us in the butts. That's why I think populations were higher than we know.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   2:05:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: farmfriend (#27)

Thank you very much. I was not familiar with that and it is very very interesting. Advanced Agriculture is one of the signs of an advanced culture. Advanced Agriculture also produces surpluses which permit higher level activities than just scratching out subsistence. One can infer from it scribes, tradesmen, etc., ... All the things necessary for what we call civilization.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:05:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: farmfriend (#29)

How were populations HIGHER than anyone knows? Where are the records?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:05:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: buckeroo (#33)

Where are the records?

Well if there were records we would know now wouldn't we? What part of "I think" did you not understand?

And there are some records. There are records of the high populations in the Amazon but we didn't believe them. Not there is archeological evidence as well. Same with North America, Anchor Wat etc.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   2:10:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: farmfriend (#31)

That's why I think populations were higher than we know.

And also technologically much more sophisticated. A lot of the structures imply knowledge of higher level mathematics such as Circular Trigonometry which the mainstream historians and archaeologists claim was not invented until the 17th Century. Yet the Piri Reis Map appears to have been based on older maps which by their construction demonstrate a knowledge of Spherical Trigonometry. As well, tantalizingly, the Piri Reis Map shows the coastline of Antarctica. The significance of that is that it is shown free of ice which implies an age for the source maps that Piri Reis copied from of at least 10,000 B.C.. We did not map the coastline, and it was done with sounding equipment, until the International Geophysical Year of 1958-59.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:11:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Original_Intent (#35) (Edited)

The significance of that is that it is shown free of ice which implies an age for the source maps that Piri Reis copied from of at least 10,000 B.C..

And the Sphinx is evidence of not only a wetter, possible warmer climate, but also advance civilization at about 10,500 BC.

There is also the new evidence of extensive trade between continents as well.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   2:13:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: farmfriend (#34)

What part of "I think" did you not understand?

I don't know why you believe your own publickly declared comment is all. You haven't substantiated your hypothesis or otherwise as i like to consider: known as, "GUT_DETERMINED_IDEA."

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:14:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: buckeroo (#37)

The archeology points in that direction.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   2:15:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: All (#38)

Hey guys, as much as I am enjoying this I'm wiped from this week. Neighbor's dog makes sleep difficult. I'm going to head to bed before I turn into a pumpkin.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   2:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: farmfriend (#36)

And the Sphinx is evidence of not only a wetter, possible warmer climate, but also advance civilization at about 10,500 BC.

There is also the new evidence of extensive trade between continents as well.

Can you find a resource other than WorldNetDaily and NEWSMAX to support this stuff?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:17:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: farmfriend (#34)

Where are the records?

Destroyed, and some may still exist but remain hidden. The India Vedas talk about aircraft, called Vimanas, and nuclear weapons, called the "Iron Thunderbolt" "which could destroy an entire city".

We are now but beginning to come to grips with just how extensive ancient civilization was. The Mediterranean Basin appears to have once been a fertile valley, and there are ruins going as far down as divers have been able to reach, that still exist - and roads that run off into the murky depths. However, in all of our recorded history it has been a sea. It is theorized based on some geologic evidence, ancient legends, and the existence of the ruins that their was once a rock wall where now lie The Straits of Gibraltar. It appears to have collapsed, or been blown, somewhere around 10,000 B.C.. Interestingly that corresponds with the sinking of the fabled Atlantis, and the rise of the Andes Mountain Chain - where you can now find the Sea Port of Tiahuanaco at 2 miles above Sea Level.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:19:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: buckeroo (#37)

I don't know why you believe your own publickly declared comment is all. You haven't substantiated your hypothesis or otherwise as i like to consider: known as, "GUT_DETERMINED_IDEA."

It is quite logical as an inference based on the sheer quantity of ruins and their sophistication. I could spend a couple of hours just summarizing and linking to stuff for South and Central America alone - and that is before we approach the evidence of massive cyclopeian structures at other places around the world such as Nan Madol in the South Pacific, Tonga, Easter Island, The Indus Valley, India (including a ruin off of the East Coast of India the size of Manhattan.

There is science, exploration, and evidence, and then there are Academicians who write books who don't want to be bothered with such nonsense as evidence which throws their favorite pet theories out the window.

Science IS, sadly, often political and can be just as hidebound and resistant to revolutionary change as any field.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:27:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Original_Intent (#41)

We are now but beginning to come to grips with just how extensive ancient civilization was.

Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was just a paper pusher and Benjamin Franklin just flew kites. And George Washington told a pile of lies. James Madison just chased the "black women" at the local saloon(s).

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:29:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: farmfriend (#18)

the coral is threatened more by crown of thorn starfish than CO2.


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:31:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: farmfriend, buckeroo (#36)

The significance of that is that it is shown free of ice which implies an age for the source maps that Piri Reis copied from of at least 10,000 B.C..

And the Sphinx is evidence of not only a wetter, possible warmer climate, but also advance civilization at about 10,500 BC.

There is also the new evidence of extensive trade between continents as well.

There is quite a bit of evidence for trade with the New World. My favorite is the Open Pit Copper Mine in Wisconsin. While the Indians did use some copper they did not operate Open Pit Mines nor did they operate smelters. They picked up pieces of elemental copper in stone, melted it out, and used it, but they did not have any large formal operations.

The Sphinx gets more interesting the more you look at it. The scale of the construction and the precision of the fitting of the stone strongly suggests and supports the use of power tools, and very sophisticated ones at that.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:32:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: buckeroo (#43) (Edited)

Now you are just getting silly. I think we have exercised your little gray cells enough for one evening.

Good night.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: IRTorqued (#44)

the coral is threatened more by crown of thorn starfish than CO2.

Do you know why?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:43:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: buckeroo (#33)

they were lost when the court house burned down? ducking as I make my exit.


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:44:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: IRTorqued (#48)

Are you aware that if Elvis Presley was alive today... that is right this moment ... he would be 75 years old?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:48:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: buckeroo (#47)

the starfish have bigger appetites than the CO2.


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:48:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: buckeroo (#49)

but how much would he weigh?


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: IRTorqued (#51)

I hear dead bodies often lose about ten pounds just at the moment of death. So, ten pounds lighter is the answer.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: buckeroo (#52)

would not those lost pounds be regained from the embalming fluids and then there is the question of the peanut butter and banana sandwich blockage?


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   3:10:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: buckeroo, *Agriculture-Environment*, *Humor-Weird News* (#0)

ping

http://www.moola.com:80/moopubs/b2b/exc/join.jsp?sid=4d6a55744e5451354e7a673d-2

freepatriot32  posted on  2010-01-09   4:01:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, farmfriend, Lod, James Deffenbach, all (#8)

We do need desperately to clean up the environment, but CO2 is a false flag environmental scam.

The real problems are (not that this is all of them):

The dumping of radioactive waste in the ocean.

The growing dead spots in the ocean.

The massive amounts of toxic plastics, garbage, etc., dumped in the ocean.

Overfishing the oceans (along with rising mercury levels in fish making them toxic as food).

Toxic waste dumping by industrial companies.

Mercury Poisoning from Power Plants, Mining, and industrial waste.

GMO Frankenfood Plants toxifying the entire food chain.

The high levels of pharmaceuticals showing up in waste water and eventually finding their way into the environment.

The use of inefficient internal combustion engines - the mileage of which could be minimally doubled with some of the suppressed technology.

Coal Fired Power Plants dumping carbon soot, sulfur compounds, and mercury into the air.

We may have already passed the tipping point to environmental catastrophe, and CO2/Glowbull Warming is nothing more than a diversion from the real problems that need solution yesterday.

Chemtrails too. Copper, mercury, aluminum in the chemtrails.

Don't forget the chemtrails. ;-)


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2010-01-09   4:21:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: All (#0)

Interesting thread here.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2010-01-09   4:31:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Original_Intent (#28)

Actually, those stone spheres are made pretty easily. There was a big documentary on them, and a couple of scientists with no stone working skills actually made a sphere in less than a day. Also, none of the spheres are 100 percent spherical, or perfect. That is a myth ginned up by Boomer Pseudo Scientists who talk out their asses alot.

It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2010-01-09   4:38:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: buckeroo (#40)

Can you find a resource other than WorldNetDaily and NEWSMAX to support this stuff?

LOL smart ass.

Yes I go with Dr. Schoch about the age of the Sphinx and climate at that time and then there is cocaine and tobacco in the mummies so intercontinental trade is a given


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, wudidiz, Lod, James Deffenbach (#28)

Who made them no one knows. Some Archaeologists have tried to credit them to the Olmecs but there is no real evidence to support that.

Not to mention the Olmecs looked African.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:53:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: IRTorqued (#44)

the coral is threatened more by crown of thorn starfish than CO2.

This is true. Just as the spotted owl is more endangered from encroachment by the barred owl.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:56:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#43)

Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was just a paper pusher and Benjamin Franklin just flew kites. And George Washington told a pile of lies. James Madison just chased the "black women" at the local saloon(s).

LOL boy you are heavily sarcastic today. Gotta love it.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:57:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: farmfriend, buckeroo, wudidiz, Lod, James Deffenbach (#59)

Who made them no one knows. Some Archaeologists have tried to credit them to the Olmecs but there is no real evidence to support that.

Not to mention the Olmecs looked African.

Try pointing out to a lamestream academic Archaeologist that the Olmec Head Carvings are clearly Negroid/Bantu in appearance and form and they will call you names and laugh at you. Yet any objective observer can look at them and see clearly that they are what we would, today, call African in appearance.

The Lamestream Academics keep trying to explain them away as "stylized", "coincidence" etc., ... Because accepting them for what they appear to be completely destroys their neat theories about the Bering Strait Land Bridge of 13,000 years ago. How did the Africans get there? And that is before we get to the quantity and sophistication of the stone structures in North, Central, and South America. To try and claim that a small group of Nomadic Hunter-Gatherers rose from Hunter-Gatherers to widespread agriculture and stone masonry of that scale, quantitiy, and sophistication (and the implied population level) in about 11,000 years is so ludicrous as to be laughable. Yet they will assert it with a straight face. There was a tower uncovered in a Lava Flow near Mexico City - Geologists dated the flow to 8,000 years ago, BUT Academic Archaeologists dated the tower to 3,000 years ago because otherwise it would have screwed up their chronology.

When someone, such as Virginia Steen-McIntyre does honest science and comes up with evidence they don't like? Why of course they rebury the evidence and drive her out of the field. Makes great "Scientific" sense doesn't it?

Here are some photos of the Olmec Heads. The author pretty much parrots the Party Line but the photos do illustrate what we are talking about.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   14:22:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Original_Intent (#62)

BUT Academic Archaeologists dated the tower to 3,000 years ago because otherwise it would have screwed up their chronology.

Reminds me of AGW.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   15:21:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: farmfriend (#63)

BUT Academic Archaeologists dated the tower to 3,000 years ago because otherwise it would have screwed up their chronology.

Reminds me of AGW.

Exactly parallel in my mind. There are Scientists and then there are advocates who pretend to be Scientists. The two are not an identity.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   15:29:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Original_Intent (#24)

Take for example the Banana. It has no seeds and the plant produces no seeds.

This was news to me. I had thought the seeds were embedded inside the fruit itself as dark specs.

According to Wiki, those are the seeds but due to cultivation the seeds in the standard banana are no longer fertile. That's not unique to banana's though. Today's corn cannot survive in the wild (I think corn is basically a superbreed version of grass), and modern cultivated strawberries little resemble their tiny wild ancestors.

No doubt there are a number of other examples.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-01-09   16:31:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Original_Intent (#24)

There are things in the Amazon Basin which no modern man has seen up close and lived. The natives in the area are, based on their legends and such, very protective of them. If you try to visit them they will kill you as it is sacred ground.

There is a awful lot of untouched land in South America. There's a lot here in Ecuador, which I think is the most densely populated SA country. (Don't quote me on that).

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-01-09   16:34:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Pinguinite (#65)

Take for example the Banana. It has no seeds and the plant produces no seeds.

This was news to me. I had thought the seeds were embedded inside the fruit itself as dark specs.

According to Wiki, those are the seeds but due to cultivation the seeds in the standard banana are no longer fertile. That's not unique to banana's though. Today's corn cannot survive in the wild (I think corn is basically a superbreed version of grass), and modern cultivated strawberries little resemble their tiny wild ancestors.

No doubt there are a number of other examples.

It has vestigal seeds but they are not functional as seeds. You can tell it came, at one time, from seeded parent stock but was bread and crossbread, at some point, to produce a seedless fruit - just as is done with Watermelon.

However, while it's seedlessness is remarkable enough (name one other fruit or vegetable that does not produce seeds), but the fact that it is a completely balanced food is another.

Taking both together the chances of their occurring by chance and random mutation is virtually nil.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   21:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Pinguinite (#66)

As far as European civilization goes most of the Amazon has been surveyed only from the air.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   21:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Original_Intent (#24)

Amaranth, the grain of the Incas, is the only grain, so far as I am aware, that has ALL essential amino acids.

Ever hear of Quinoa?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-09   22:29:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: FormerLurker (#69)

I've heard a man can live off fatback and hoecakes.

A little grain liquor helps now and then to shoo away the blues.

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:35:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: FormerLurker (#69) (Edited)

Ever hear of Quinoa?

Yes, I thought of it a while after I made the post but decided not to edit it in. Besides I don't like Quinoa - too much fuss. Although it is a useful grain. I'll buy Quinoa Flour to add a little to my multi-grain bread - as I do with Amaranth. I like the Amaranth though as it adds a nice sweet nutty flavor to bread. You just can't add too much as it does not have gluten and so too much and the bread won't raise properly.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   22:37:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: randge (#70)

Don't fergit the Turnip Greens. (Yecccccccccch!)

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   22:39:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Pinguinite (#65)

This was news to me. I had thought the seeds were embedded inside the fruit itself as dark specs.

The seed of the banana is that little dark spike that you pull out when you break off the last of the peel.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   22:41:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Original_Intent (#71)

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:42:01 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Original_Intent (#72)

I knows you want some Loosiana Gem sauce to go wit' dat fatback sandwich now.

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:45:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: randge (#75)

I knows you want some Loosiana Gem sauce to go wit' dat fatback sandwich now.

Followed by a liddle arterial scrubbing as well - or a double bypass.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   22:47:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Original_Intent (#76)

Well, you got to live a little. You cain't eat oats all the time.

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:57:06 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: farmfriend (#73)

The seed of the banana is that little dark spike that you pull out when you break off the last of the peel.

Not according to wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana

It says there the seeds are the specs.

Usually seeds are located in close proximity with the fruit (usually the center) such that the rotting or consumption of the fruit benefits & fertilizes the seed. I.e. fruits with soft seeds that are consumed by animals/people are designed to survive digestion and find itself in a nice pile of fertilizer at the end of the day. Or those that simply fall to the ground and rot have the same end result. A banana with a seed only on the tip wouldn't work as well in either scenario, a seemingly defective design.

Also, fruits always/nearly always have more than one seed, so long as the seeds are small.

So I think I'm going to stick to the black spec theory.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-01-09   23:26:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: buckeroo (#0) (Edited)

The planet is unquestionably dying with the Arctic melting

Have you been to the Artic dude? No melting going on there. You live in an alternate universe. Once upon a time people like you were institutionalized for their own good and the saftey of the public.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2010-01-10   2:12:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: buckeroo (#0) (Edited)

I strongly recommend that for the preservation of all mankind that we consider methods of conservation quickly.

I strongly recommend you get some help.

CO2 is not warming the planet. Deforestation in the Amazon is only bad because of the native plants there that are fonud no where else in the world. More CO2 in the atmosphere equals better crops and more trees everywhere! That's right, CO2 is NOT a pollutant.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2010-01-10   2:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: RickyJ (#80)

More CO2 in the atmosphere equals better crops and more trees everywhere! That's right, CO2 is NOT a pollutant.

So, let's say you are ill and go to the local hospital to fetch some professional care. You need to breathe, correct? Do they place a mask over your face to breathe in oxygen or carbon dioxide?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-13   23:44:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: buckeroo (#81)

I think Ricky would prefer the CO2.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-13   23:45:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: FormerLurker (#82)

Sarcasm, correct?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-13   23:50:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: randge (#70)

I've heard a man can live off fatback and hoecakes.

What the hell is that? Bacon and bisquits?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-13   23:50:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: buckeroo, RickyJ (#83)

Sarcasm, correct?

With Ricky being Ricky, I really think he WOULD choose the CO2. He's not that bright when it comes to science and stuff...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-13   23:51:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: randge (#70)

A little grain liquor helps now and then to shoo away the blues.

That I can understand, and yep, sounds good to me... :)


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-13   23:52:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: FormerLurker (#85)

Our individual and mutual health is in fact the most important asset about ourselves. It seems to me that some people don't know the difference between simple issues that affect not just their own personal daily livelihood(s) but the rest of the world around themselves.

The politics are deep. But to deny science and common sense seems a bit strange to me.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-13   23:56:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: buckeroo (#87)

I'm not absolutely certain that the world really IS in danger of global warming at this point, but it would be wise to reduce emissions regardless, since it's not JUST the CO2 we need to be worried about, it's the spectrum of other REALLY nasty pollutants that are truly poisoning us directly and indirecty via our food and water.

Of course, if the global warming pundits ARE correct, and the ocean temperatures ARE rising, then we DO need to be concerned with CO2 levels.

I haven't been keeping up with the news, but do you know whether or not there is any actual evidence of ocean temperatures rising?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-14   0:16:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: FormerLurker (#88)

I haven't been keeping up with the news, but do you know whether or not there is any actual evidence of ocean temperatures rising?

Generally the oceans are warming. With this climatic change (known as global warming phenomena) the ice caps are melting:

The planet is dying.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-14   0:45:51 ET  (5 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: FormerLurker (#88)

I haven't been keeping up with the news, but do you know whether or not there is any actual evidence of ocean temperatures rising?

Global Ocean Surface Temperature Warmest On Record For June

ScienceDaily (July 27, 2009) — The world’s ocean surface temperature was the warmest on record for June, breaking the previous high mark set in 2005, according to a preliminary analysis by NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. Additionally, the combined average global land and ocean surface temperature for June was second-warmest on record. The global records began in 1880.

Global Climate Statistics

* The combined global land and ocean surface temperature for June 2009 was the second warmest on record, behind 2005, 1.12 degrees F (0.62 degree C) above the 20th century average of 59.9 degrees F (15.5 degrees C).

* Separately, the global ocean surface temperature for June 2009 was the warmest on record, 1.06 degrees F (0.59 degree C) above the 20th century average of 61.5 degrees F (16.4 degrees C).

* Each hemisphere broke its June record for warmest ocean surface temperature. In the Northern Hemisphere, the warm anomaly of 1.17 degrees F (0.65 degree C) surpassed the previous record of 1.12 degrees F (0.62 degree C), set in 2005. The Southern Hemisphere’s increase of 0.99 degree F (0.55 degree C) exceeded the old record of 0.92 degree F (0.51 degree C), set in 1998.

* The global land surface temperature for June 2009 was 1.26 degrees F (0.70 degree C) above the 20th century average of 55.9 degrees F (13.3 degrees C), and ranked as the sixth-warmest June on record.

Notable Developments and Events

* El Niño is back after six straight months of increased sea-surface temperature anomalies. June sea surface temperatures in the region were more than 0.9 degree F (0.5 degree C) above average.

* Terrestrial warmth was most notable in Africa. Considerable warmth also occurred in Siberia and in the lands around the Black and Mediterranean Seas. Cooler-than-average land locations included the U.S. Northern Plains, the Canadian Prairie Provinces, and central Asia.

* Arctic sea ice covered an average of 4.4 million square miles (11.5 million square kilometers) during June, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. This is 5.6 percent below the 1979-2000 average extent. By contrast, the 2007 record for the least Arctic sea ice extent was 5.5 percent below average. Antarctic sea ice extent in June was 3.9 percent above the 1979-2000 average.

* Heavy rain fell over central Europe, triggering mudslides and floods. Thirteen fatalities were reported. According to reports, this was central Europe's worst natural disaster since the 2002 floods that claimed 17 lives and caused nearly $3 billion in damages.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-14   0:51:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: buckeroo (#89) (Edited)

"The planet is dying."

Yes, it is. We are turning it into Easter Island.

Only this time, there will not be any survivors to do a National Geographic special about how an infestation of primates celebrated their supremacy of the Earth by killing it and themselves in the process.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-14   0:54:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: FormerLurker (#88)

This is from NASA so pro AGW site:

Short-Term Ocean Cooling Suggests Global Warming 'Speed Bump'

The average temperature of the water near the top of the Earth's oceans has significantly cooled since 2003. New research suggests global warming trends are not always steady in their effects on ocean temperatures.

NPR, pro AGW site:

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat

by Richard Harris

Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their robots are telling them.

NYT:

Ocean Cooling and Global Warming

By ANDREW C. REVKIN

The video loop above shows satellite readings of sea surface height, an indirect measure of heating (because of the way warmer water expands).

Along with two co-authors, Josh Willis, a climate scientist and ocean expert at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, found that warming of the seas — as measured by a network of deep-diving “Argo” buoys — essentially stopped over the last four years.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-14   0:55:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: buckeroo, FormerLurker (#90)

Global Ocean Surface Temperature Warmest On Record For June

Doesn't match the sites I found.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-14   0:57:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: farmfriend (#93)

Doesn't match the sites I found.

Thats because you are watching You-Tube.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-14   0:59:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: farmfriend (#93)

Here is a more recent article.....

Global Surface Temperature Was Second Warmest For September

ScienceDaily (Oct. 18, 2009) — The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the second warmest September on record, according to NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. Based on records going back to 1880, the monthly National Climatic Data Center analysis is part of the suite of climate services NOAA provides.

NCDC scientists also reported that the average land surface temperature for September was the second warmest on record, behind 2005. Additionally, the global ocean surface temperature was tied for the fifth warmest on record for September.

Global Temperature Highlights

The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was 1.12 degrees F above the 20th century average of 59.0 degrees F. Separately the global land surface temperature was 1.75 degrees F above the 20th century average of 53.6 degrees F.

Warmer-than-average temperatures engulfed most of the world’s land areas during the month. The greatest warmth occurred across Canada and the northern and western contiguous United States. Warmer-than-normal conditions also prevailed across Europe, most of Asia and Australia.

The worldwide ocean temperature tied with 2004 as the fifth warmest September on record, 0.90 degree F above the 20th century average of 61.1 degrees F. The near-Antarctic southern ocean and the Gulf of Alaska featured notable cooler-than-average temperatures.

Other Highlights

Arctic sea ice covered an average 2.1 million square miles in September - the third lowest for any September since records began in 1979. The coverage was 23.8 percent below the 1979-2000 average, and the 13th consecutive September with below-average Arctic sea ice extent.

Antarctic sea ice extent in September was 2.2 percent above the 1979-2000 average. This was the third largest September extent on record, behind 2006 and 2007.

Typhoon Ketsana became 2009’s second-deadliest tropical cyclone so far, claiming nearly 500 lives across the Philippines, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. The storm struck the Philippines on September 26, leaving 80 percent of Manila submerged.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-14   1:04:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Ferret Mike (#91)

We are turning it into Easter Island.

At least you admit being part of the problem. Ever notice how some of these kind folks NEVER admit complicity about the world around themselves?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-14   1:39:58 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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