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Title: Deforestation Unveils Lost Amazon Civilization
Source: Discovery.com
URL Source: http://news.discovery.com/earth/def ... -lost-amazon-civilization.html
Published: Jan 7, 2010
Author: Michael Reilly
Post Date: 2010-01-08 23:03:43 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 11455
Comments: 96

Who would've thought deforestation had an upside?

Satellite flyovers of newly cleared land in the Amazon have uncovered a vanished civilization that could rival the Incans or Aztecs in sophistication.

Researchers found mysterious geometric trenches and other earthworks carved into the landscape as early as a decade ago, but satellites have paved the way for the discovery of over 200 giant structures.

Writing in the journal Antiquity, the researchers say the the formations stretch for some 250 kilometers (155 miles) across the upper Amazon basin east of the Andes mountains and appear to be of a similar style throughout, suggesting one vast, united civilization that could have totaled some 60,000 inhabitants.

Researchers also found stone tools, bits of ceramics, and other artifacts buried in mounds along the trenches. So far, the uncovered areas date to between 200 and 1283 A.D., but the team thinks they've seen "no more than a tenth" of the true extent of this archeological wonder. More from an article which appeared Tuesday in the Guardian:

"These revelations are exploding our perceptions of what the Americas really looked liked before the arrival of Christopher Columbus," said David Grann, author of "The Lost City of Z," a book about an attempt in the 1920s to find signs of Amazonian civilizations. "The discoveries are challenging long-held assumptions about the Amazon as a Hobbesian place where only small primitive tribes could ever have existed, and about the limits the environment placed on the rise of early civilisations."

ElDorado2 They are also vindicating, said Grann, Percy Fawcett, the explorer who partly inspired Conan Doyle's book "The Lost World."

Fawcett led an expedition to find the City of Z but the party vanished, bequeathing a mystery.

Many scientists saw the jungle as too harsh to sustain anything but small nomadic tribes. Now it seems the conquistadores who spoke of "cities that glistened in white" were telling the truth.

They, however, probably also introduced the diseases that wiped out the native people, leaving the jungle to claim – and hide – all traces of their civilization.


Poster Comment:

Who would've thought deforestation had an upside?

There is no upside. The planet is unquestionably dying with the Arctic melting, the destruction of coral reefs and the average temperature climbing at rates that demand a complete stop to deforestation releasing CO2.

I strongly recommend that for the preservation of all mankind that we consider methods of conservation quickly.

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#41. To: farmfriend (#34)

Where are the records?

Destroyed, and some may still exist but remain hidden. The India Vedas talk about aircraft, called Vimanas, and nuclear weapons, called the "Iron Thunderbolt" "which could destroy an entire city".

We are now but beginning to come to grips with just how extensive ancient civilization was. The Mediterranean Basin appears to have once been a fertile valley, and there are ruins going as far down as divers have been able to reach, that still exist - and roads that run off into the murky depths. However, in all of our recorded history it has been a sea. It is theorized based on some geologic evidence, ancient legends, and the existence of the ruins that their was once a rock wall where now lie The Straits of Gibraltar. It appears to have collapsed, or been blown, somewhere around 10,000 B.C.. Interestingly that corresponds with the sinking of the fabled Atlantis, and the rise of the Andes Mountain Chain - where you can now find the Sea Port of Tiahuanaco at 2 miles above Sea Level.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:19:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: buckeroo (#37)

I don't know why you believe your own publickly declared comment is all. You haven't substantiated your hypothesis or otherwise as i like to consider: known as, "GUT_DETERMINED_IDEA."

It is quite logical as an inference based on the sheer quantity of ruins and their sophistication. I could spend a couple of hours just summarizing and linking to stuff for South and Central America alone - and that is before we approach the evidence of massive cyclopeian structures at other places around the world such as Nan Madol in the South Pacific, Tonga, Easter Island, The Indus Valley, India (including a ruin off of the East Coast of India the size of Manhattan.

There is science, exploration, and evidence, and then there are Academicians who write books who don't want to be bothered with such nonsense as evidence which throws their favorite pet theories out the window.

Science IS, sadly, often political and can be just as hidebound and resistant to revolutionary change as any field.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:27:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Original_Intent (#41)

We are now but beginning to come to grips with just how extensive ancient civilization was.

Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was just a paper pusher and Benjamin Franklin just flew kites. And George Washington told a pile of lies. James Madison just chased the "black women" at the local saloon(s).

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:29:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: farmfriend (#18)

the coral is threatened more by crown of thorn starfish than CO2.


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:31:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: farmfriend, buckeroo (#36)

The significance of that is that it is shown free of ice which implies an age for the source maps that Piri Reis copied from of at least 10,000 B.C..

And the Sphinx is evidence of not only a wetter, possible warmer climate, but also advance civilization at about 10,500 BC.

There is also the new evidence of extensive trade between continents as well.

There is quite a bit of evidence for trade with the New World. My favorite is the Open Pit Copper Mine in Wisconsin. While the Indians did use some copper they did not operate Open Pit Mines nor did they operate smelters. They picked up pieces of elemental copper in stone, melted it out, and used it, but they did not have any large formal operations.

The Sphinx gets more interesting the more you look at it. The scale of the construction and the precision of the fitting of the stone strongly suggests and supports the use of power tools, and very sophisticated ones at that.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:32:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: buckeroo (#43) (Edited)

Now you are just getting silly. I think we have exercised your little gray cells enough for one evening.

Good night.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   2:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: IRTorqued (#44)

the coral is threatened more by crown of thorn starfish than CO2.

Do you know why?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:43:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: buckeroo (#33)

they were lost when the court house burned down? ducking as I make my exit.


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:44:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: IRTorqued (#48)

Are you aware that if Elvis Presley was alive today... that is right this moment ... he would be 75 years old?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:48:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: buckeroo (#47)

the starfish have bigger appetites than the CO2.


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:48:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: buckeroo (#49)

but how much would he weigh?


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   2:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: IRTorqued (#51)

I hear dead bodies often lose about ten pounds just at the moment of death. So, ten pounds lighter is the answer.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-09   2:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: buckeroo (#52)

would not those lost pounds be regained from the embalming fluids and then there is the question of the peanut butter and banana sandwich blockage?


The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-01-09   3:10:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: buckeroo, *Agriculture-Environment*, *Humor-Weird News* (#0)

ping

http://www.moola.com:80/moopubs/b2b/exc/join.jsp?sid=4d6a55744e5451354e7a673d-2

freepatriot32  posted on  2010-01-09   4:01:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, farmfriend, Lod, James Deffenbach, all (#8)

We do need desperately to clean up the environment, but CO2 is a false flag environmental scam.

The real problems are (not that this is all of them):

The dumping of radioactive waste in the ocean.

The growing dead spots in the ocean.

The massive amounts of toxic plastics, garbage, etc., dumped in the ocean.

Overfishing the oceans (along with rising mercury levels in fish making them toxic as food).

Toxic waste dumping by industrial companies.

Mercury Poisoning from Power Plants, Mining, and industrial waste.

GMO Frankenfood Plants toxifying the entire food chain.

The high levels of pharmaceuticals showing up in waste water and eventually finding their way into the environment.

The use of inefficient internal combustion engines - the mileage of which could be minimally doubled with some of the suppressed technology.

Coal Fired Power Plants dumping carbon soot, sulfur compounds, and mercury into the air.

We may have already passed the tipping point to environmental catastrophe, and CO2/Glowbull Warming is nothing more than a diversion from the real problems that need solution yesterday.

Chemtrails too. Copper, mercury, aluminum in the chemtrails.

Don't forget the chemtrails. ;-)


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2010-01-09   4:21:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: All (#0)

Interesting thread here.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2010-01-09   4:31:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Original_Intent (#28)

Actually, those stone spheres are made pretty easily. There was a big documentary on them, and a couple of scientists with no stone working skills actually made a sphere in less than a day. Also, none of the spheres are 100 percent spherical, or perfect. That is a myth ginned up by Boomer Pseudo Scientists who talk out their asses alot.

It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2010-01-09   4:38:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: buckeroo (#40)

Can you find a resource other than WorldNetDaily and NEWSMAX to support this stuff?

LOL smart ass.

Yes I go with Dr. Schoch about the age of the Sphinx and climate at that time and then there is cocaine and tobacco in the mummies so intercontinental trade is a given


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, wudidiz, Lod, James Deffenbach (#28)

Who made them no one knows. Some Archaeologists have tried to credit them to the Olmecs but there is no real evidence to support that.

Not to mention the Olmecs looked African.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:53:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: IRTorqued (#44)

the coral is threatened more by crown of thorn starfish than CO2.

This is true. Just as the spotted owl is more endangered from encroachment by the barred owl.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:56:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#43)

Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was just a paper pusher and Benjamin Franklin just flew kites. And George Washington told a pile of lies. James Madison just chased the "black women" at the local saloon(s).

LOL boy you are heavily sarcastic today. Gotta love it.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   13:57:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: farmfriend, buckeroo, wudidiz, Lod, James Deffenbach (#59)

Who made them no one knows. Some Archaeologists have tried to credit them to the Olmecs but there is no real evidence to support that.

Not to mention the Olmecs looked African.

Try pointing out to a lamestream academic Archaeologist that the Olmec Head Carvings are clearly Negroid/Bantu in appearance and form and they will call you names and laugh at you. Yet any objective observer can look at them and see clearly that they are what we would, today, call African in appearance.

The Lamestream Academics keep trying to explain them away as "stylized", "coincidence" etc., ... Because accepting them for what they appear to be completely destroys their neat theories about the Bering Strait Land Bridge of 13,000 years ago. How did the Africans get there? And that is before we get to the quantity and sophistication of the stone structures in North, Central, and South America. To try and claim that a small group of Nomadic Hunter-Gatherers rose from Hunter-Gatherers to widespread agriculture and stone masonry of that scale, quantitiy, and sophistication (and the implied population level) in about 11,000 years is so ludicrous as to be laughable. Yet they will assert it with a straight face. There was a tower uncovered in a Lava Flow near Mexico City - Geologists dated the flow to 8,000 years ago, BUT Academic Archaeologists dated the tower to 3,000 years ago because otherwise it would have screwed up their chronology.

When someone, such as Virginia Steen-McIntyre does honest science and comes up with evidence they don't like? Why of course they rebury the evidence and drive her out of the field. Makes great "Scientific" sense doesn't it?

Here are some photos of the Olmec Heads. The author pretty much parrots the Party Line but the photos do illustrate what we are talking about.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   14:22:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Original_Intent (#62)

BUT Academic Archaeologists dated the tower to 3,000 years ago because otherwise it would have screwed up their chronology.

Reminds me of AGW.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   15:21:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: farmfriend (#63)

BUT Academic Archaeologists dated the tower to 3,000 years ago because otherwise it would have screwed up their chronology.

Reminds me of AGW.

Exactly parallel in my mind. There are Scientists and then there are advocates who pretend to be Scientists. The two are not an identity.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   15:29:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Original_Intent (#24)

Take for example the Banana. It has no seeds and the plant produces no seeds.

This was news to me. I had thought the seeds were embedded inside the fruit itself as dark specs.

According to Wiki, those are the seeds but due to cultivation the seeds in the standard banana are no longer fertile. That's not unique to banana's though. Today's corn cannot survive in the wild (I think corn is basically a superbreed version of grass), and modern cultivated strawberries little resemble their tiny wild ancestors.

No doubt there are a number of other examples.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-01-09   16:31:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Original_Intent (#24)

There are things in the Amazon Basin which no modern man has seen up close and lived. The natives in the area are, based on their legends and such, very protective of them. If you try to visit them they will kill you as it is sacred ground.

There is a awful lot of untouched land in South America. There's a lot here in Ecuador, which I think is the most densely populated SA country. (Don't quote me on that).

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-01-09   16:34:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Pinguinite (#65)

Take for example the Banana. It has no seeds and the plant produces no seeds.

This was news to me. I had thought the seeds were embedded inside the fruit itself as dark specs.

According to Wiki, those are the seeds but due to cultivation the seeds in the standard banana are no longer fertile. That's not unique to banana's though. Today's corn cannot survive in the wild (I think corn is basically a superbreed version of grass), and modern cultivated strawberries little resemble their tiny wild ancestors.

No doubt there are a number of other examples.

It has vestigal seeds but they are not functional as seeds. You can tell it came, at one time, from seeded parent stock but was bread and crossbread, at some point, to produce a seedless fruit - just as is done with Watermelon.

However, while it's seedlessness is remarkable enough (name one other fruit or vegetable that does not produce seeds), but the fact that it is a completely balanced food is another.

Taking both together the chances of their occurring by chance and random mutation is virtually nil.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   21:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Pinguinite (#66)

As far as European civilization goes most of the Amazon has been surveyed only from the air.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   21:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Original_Intent (#24)

Amaranth, the grain of the Incas, is the only grain, so far as I am aware, that has ALL essential amino acids.

Ever hear of Quinoa?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-09   22:29:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: FormerLurker (#69)

I've heard a man can live off fatback and hoecakes.

A little grain liquor helps now and then to shoo away the blues.

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:35:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: FormerLurker (#69) (Edited)

Ever hear of Quinoa?

Yes, I thought of it a while after I made the post but decided not to edit it in. Besides I don't like Quinoa - too much fuss. Although it is a useful grain. I'll buy Quinoa Flour to add a little to my multi-grain bread - as I do with Amaranth. I like the Amaranth though as it adds a nice sweet nutty flavor to bread. You just can't add too much as it does not have gluten and so too much and the bread won't raise properly.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   22:37:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: randge (#70)

Don't fergit the Turnip Greens. (Yecccccccccch!)

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   22:39:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Pinguinite (#65)

This was news to me. I had thought the seeds were embedded inside the fruit itself as dark specs.

The seed of the banana is that little dark spike that you pull out when you break off the last of the peel.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-09   22:41:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Original_Intent (#71)

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:42:01 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Original_Intent (#72)

I knows you want some Loosiana Gem sauce to go wit' dat fatback sandwich now.

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:45:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: randge (#75)

I knows you want some Loosiana Gem sauce to go wit' dat fatback sandwich now.

Followed by a liddle arterial scrubbing as well - or a double bypass.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-09   22:47:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Original_Intent (#76)

Well, you got to live a little. You cain't eat oats all the time.

randge  posted on  2010-01-09   22:57:06 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: farmfriend (#73)

The seed of the banana is that little dark spike that you pull out when you break off the last of the peel.

Not according to wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana

It says there the seeds are the specs.

Usually seeds are located in close proximity with the fruit (usually the center) such that the rotting or consumption of the fruit benefits & fertilizes the seed. I.e. fruits with soft seeds that are consumed by animals/people are designed to survive digestion and find itself in a nice pile of fertilizer at the end of the day. Or those that simply fall to the ground and rot have the same end result. A banana with a seed only on the tip wouldn't work as well in either scenario, a seemingly defective design.

Also, fruits always/nearly always have more than one seed, so long as the seeds are small.

So I think I'm going to stick to the black spec theory.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-01-09   23:26:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: buckeroo (#0) (Edited)

The planet is unquestionably dying with the Arctic melting

Have you been to the Artic dude? No melting going on there. You live in an alternate universe. Once upon a time people like you were institutionalized for their own good and the saftey of the public.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2010-01-10   2:12:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: buckeroo (#0) (Edited)

I strongly recommend that for the preservation of all mankind that we consider methods of conservation quickly.

I strongly recommend you get some help.

CO2 is not warming the planet. Deforestation in the Amazon is only bad because of the native plants there that are fonud no where else in the world. More CO2 in the atmosphere equals better crops and more trees everywhere! That's right, CO2 is NOT a pollutant.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2010-01-10   2:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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