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Title: World oil production peaking in 2014 - Kuwait
Source: Fire Earth blog
URL Source: http://feww.wordpress.com
Published: Mar 11, 2010
Author: FE Blogger
Post Date: 2010-03-14 05:37:05 by Tatarewicz
Keywords: None
Views: 3732
Comments: 68

Researchers in the ME oil-producing state of Kuwait expect world oil production to peak in 2014 after they evaluated conventional production in 47 major oil producing countries. They found oil reserves to be dropping by a rate of 2.1%/year.

Tatarewicz: Also see on the same site: Last May's 3.3 earthquake in Texas was likely caused by oil drilling activity.

http://feww.wordpress.com/2009/0...-caused-texas-earthquake/

Click for Full Text!

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#1. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-03-14   6:22:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Eric Stratton, Tatarewicz (#1)

The 'Abiotic Oil' Controversy


"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-03-14   6:30:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: wudidiz (#2)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-03-14   6:43:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Eric Stratton (#3)

Is this the first you've heard of abiotic oil?


"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-03-14   7:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Eric Stratton, Tatarewicz, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, all (#3)

The concept of "oil peak" is strictly linked to a view that sees oil as a finite resource. Several economists have never accepted this view, arguing that resource availability is determined by price and not by physical factors. Recently, others have been arguing a more extreme view: that oil is not even physically limited. According to some versions of the abiotic oil theory, oil is continuously created in the Earth's mantle in such amounts that the very concept of "depletion" is to be abandoned and, by consequence, that there will never be an "oil peak."

Scientists Prove Abiotic Oil Is Real!

Abiotic Oil -- Reserves Replenished by Process in Earth's Mantle?


"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-03-14   7:41:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: wudidiz (#5)

the new IPM (international petroleum monthly) came out a day or so ago...

global crude oil and lease condensate production peaked, year on year, in 2005.

table 1.1d

if the US energy information administration wanted you to know that oil production had peaked, they'd make their report easier to access, wouldnt they?

groundresonance  posted on  2010-03-14   7:48:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: groundresonance (#6)

gr, I don't bozo anyone, but I've really had it with your incessant, annoying, dumb questions. Go away and keep it to yourself.

Lmao


"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-03-14   7:52:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: wudidiz (#7)

gr

that's "grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!" to you, mr.

groundresonance  posted on  2010-03-14   7:54:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: wudidiz (#7)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-03-14   7:58:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Eric Stratton (#9)

Lol, you're not missing anything :-)


"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-03-14   7:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: wudidiz (#4)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-03-14   8:03:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: wudidiz (#10)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-03-14   8:04:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Eric Stratton (#11)

Results 1 - 10 of about 13,900 for "world crude oil production peaked" 2005

groundresonance  posted on  2010-03-14   8:06:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Eric Stratton (#11)

...poorly written, or perhaps really poorly explained...

That's why I posted the other 3 links to you later.


"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-03-14   8:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Eric Stratton (#12)

google is messing with our minds again...

the front page of returns on the search "world crude oil production peaked" 2005 says there are 13,900 hits, but then when you get to the bottom of the page, you see there are only two pages of returns, and the second page says there are 17 hits.

soooo, it seems like something's rotten in google's denmark.

groundresonance  posted on  2010-03-14   8:15:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: All (#13) (Edited)

so i guess we'll have to stick with the...

...which shows, according to their IPM posted 10 march 2010, that production of crude oil plus lease condensate peaked, year-on-year, in 2005.

groundresonance  posted on  2010-03-14   8:20:24 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: wudidiz (#14)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-03-14   9:36:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: wudidiz (#5)

Yeah, I agree with the abiotic oil theory. I think there is plenty of oil and it is way overpriced.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-03-14   10:11:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Eric Stratton (#11)

"Peak Oil" just means that half of all reserves have been discovered and consumed and that this first half of production was the most easily obtained. Even if this theory is true, it means that there will still be 50 percent of the oil left in the ground in 2014. But the second half will be much more expensive to drill for.

If the abiotic genesis theory is true, why aren't drillers moving back into the East Texas Oil Field to capture what has filled back up in the Woodbine, which was first tapped circa 1930. The Woodbine formation should have had plenty of time to replenish itself by now. If it takes hundreds to thousands of years to do so, abiotic genesis wouldn't do us much good as we'll all be dead long before then.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2010-03-14   10:52:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Sam Houston (#19)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-03-14   11:08:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Sam Houston (#19)

About 80 miles off of the coast of Louisiana lies a mostly submerged mountain, the top of which is known as Eugene Island. The portion underwater is an eerie-looking, sloping tower jutting up from the depths of the Gulf of Mexico, with deep fissures and perpendicular faults which spontaneously spew natural gas. A significant reservoir of crude oil was discovered nearby in the late '60s, and by 1970, a platform named Eugene 330 was busily producing about 15,000 barrels a day of high-quality crude oil.

By the late '80s, the platform's production had slipped to less than 4,000 barrels per day, and was considered pumped out. Done. Suddenly, in 1990, production soared back to 15,000 barrels a day, and the reserves which had been estimated at 60 million barrels in the '70s, were recalculated at 400 million barrels. Interestingly, the measured geological age of the new oil was quantifiably different than the oil pumped in the '70s.

Analysis of seismic recordings revealed the presence of a "deep fault" at the base of the Eugene Island reservoir which was gushing up a river of oil from some deeper and previously unknown source...

Source: New Oil Being Created Today?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-03-14   11:25:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: James Deffenbach (#21)

Interesting. So I ask again: why have the oil drillers not returned to East Texas to tap into the refilled reservoirs of the Woodbine 3,500 feet below me?

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2010-03-15   9:45:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Sam Houston (#22) (Edited)

Interesting. So I ask again: why have the oil drillers not returned to East Texas to tap into the refilled reservoirs of the Woodbine 3,500 feet below me?

Possibly the refreshed oil reserves found in Russia, Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, etc. are not all geologically identical ? Possibly someone is lying to US ? But the fact is that it's been known outside of duhmeriKa for a long time that abiotic oil is a reality and there's a whole bunch of it to use for as long as we choose to utilize it...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   10:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Sam Houston (#22)

So I ask again: why have the oil drillers not returned to East Texas to tap into the refilled reservoirs of the Woodbine 3,500 feet below me?

Let me ask you this. If you owned oil wells or controlled the production of said wells, and you had all you needed, would you automatically tap into reserves? The oil companies are somewhat like the DeBeers cartel with diamonds. They want everyone to believe that the $#it is rare or scarce so they can keep the prices high. But the truth is that diamonds are not scarce and if DeBeers didn't have such a stranglehold on the market it would be a rare thing to see an expensive diamond. Same with oil. It is not scarce but they want people to believe they are going to run out within the next ten years or twenty years (they have been saying this $#it since the early 70's you know). I didn't believe there was any oil shortage in 1973 and I don't believe it now.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-03-15   11:42:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: James Deffenbach (#24)

Let me ask you this. If you owned oil wells or controlled the production of said wells, and you had all you needed, would you automatically tap into reserves? The oil companies are somewhat like the DeBeers cartel with diamonds. They want everyone to believe that the $#it is rare or scarce so they can keep the prices high. But the truth is that diamonds are not scarce and if DeBeers didn't have such a stranglehold on the market it would be a rare thing to see an expensive diamond. Same with oil. It is not scarce but they want people to believe they are going to run out within the next ten years or twenty years (they have been saying this $#it since the early 70's you know). I didn't believe there was any oil shortage in 1973 and I don't believe it now.

James...

Excellent assessment and overview.

Here in the Northeast, thirty years ago, during winter, factories and schools closed becuase we had run out of natural gas. The world would end shortly.

However, lo and behold we could buy LNG from the ME at a stiff price, we were saved. Billions flowed overseas.

So, now all of a sudden billions are being spent to drill natural gas wells here in the northeast and they are all winners. The projections are for the wells in Pa. alone to be able to supply the entire northeast for seventy five years.

I received my first large check as a landowner last week.

By the way, the naysayers are doing their very best to get the drilling stopped.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-03-15   11:51:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Cynicom (#25)

Back in the late 60's through the (almost) mid 70's I knew a truck driver who worked for Amoco (my family owned an Amoco service station). This guy drove a truck through the week but he was also a preacher. He earned his living driving the gas truck. A very good, decent and honest man. I knew he would tell me the truth if he knew what it was so I asked him one day about the so-called "gas shortage." He told me how you could tell when all the holding tanks were full--the tanks where the driver fills up their tankers. As I remember, he said that they had hands like a clock and if the hands were straight up and down in the 12 o'clock position it indicated the tanks were full. But at a time when we could have used a couple of trailer loads a week we were only getting one. Bill said there was plenty of gas but they just weren't letting them haul it. I figured at the time when the price went to a dollar a gallon it would open the spigots and you wouldn't hear anymore about a shortage other than from the dupes and true believers. And that is the way it worked out.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-03-15   12:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom (#25)

Excellent assessment and overview.

Thank you for the kind words.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-03-15   12:29:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: James Deffenbach (#26)

Some peeple won't accept abiotic oil reality until Big Bastard Oil tells them...some won't accept the truth that 911 was an inside job unless the d!ck cheney cops to it.

Sohhhhhhhmmmmmm Peeple...LOL


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   12:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Rotara (#28)

Best I can remember from our conversation Bill told me that every holding tank they had was full. And that there were ships waiting just beyond the horizon to unload but they had to wait until there was somewhere to put the oil.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-03-15   12:36:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: James Deffenbach (#29)

It's obvious to see, at the local level, the massive collusion that's gone on forever...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   12:42:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: wudidiz, Eric Stratton, Tatarewicz, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Rotara, christine, CadetD, farmfriend, all (#5)

The concept of "oil peak" is strictly linked to a view that sees oil as a finite resource. Several economists have never accepted this view, arguing that resource availability is determined by price and not by physical factors. Recently, others have been arguing a more extreme view: that oil is not even physically limited. According to some versions of the abiotic oil theory, oil is continuously created in the Earth's mantle in such amounts that the very concept of "depletion" is to be abandoned and, by consequence, that there will never be an "oil peak."

Scientists Prove Abiotic Oil Is Real!

Abiotic Oil -- Reserves Replenished by Process in Earth's Mantle?

Exactly. And this has likely been known since at least the 1930's when the first ideas on abiotic oil bubbled up.

As I have pointed out repeatedly there are persistent reports that have leaked out of major finds being capped and kept out of production. This is done I suspect for two reasons:

1. To hold the price of oil products up and prevent competition.

2. Control. Along with food our modern technologic society requires a steady and plentiful supply of energy to continue to exist and operate. Of course it has not just been oil that has been controlled but the repeated reports of new discoveries on how to produce cheap (CLEAN)) energy which is bought up, bottled up, and suppressed.

People first need to understand that we live in a controlled society. The control is maintained by controlling information flow, the media, food, agribusiness such as Monsatan, energy, oil etc., ..., and money i.e., Da Fed.

By controlling those they don't need to have massive prison camps - until they are ready to begin mass liquidations of "excess population".

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-03-15   13:04:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Original_Intent (#31)

Spot On

I'm so tired of all the manufactured bubbles, bursts, bailouts, BIG LIE BULLSHIT that I'm getting mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore !

ehehe


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   13:08:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: James Deffenbach (#24)

So I ask again: why have the oil drillers not returned to East Texas to tap into the refilled reservoirs of the Woodbine 3,500 feet below me?

Let me ask you this. If you owned oil wells or controlled the production of said wells, and you had all you needed, would you automatically tap into reserves? The oil companies are somewhat like the DeBeers cartel with diamonds. They want everyone to believe that the $#it is rare or scarce so they can keep the prices high. But the truth is that diamonds are not scarce and if DeBeers didn't have such a stranglehold on the market it would be a rare thing to see an expensive diamond. Same with oil. It is not scarce but they want people to believe they are going to run out within the next ten years or twenty years (they have been saying this $#it since the early 70's you know). I didn't believe there was any oil shortage in 1973 and I don't believe it now.

DeBeers is a great parallel. Diamonds, it has become apparent, are actually one of the most plentiful of the so-called "precious gems" (Emeralds of over 1 carat are actually many times rarer than diamonds - I lovvvvvvve Emeralds - they are just so awesomely beautiful it is hard to put in words - it is like they replenish you soul). However, by controlling distribution and enforcing it with government collusion and draconian penalties DeBeers has been able to control the market and keep prices artificially high. The same type of Cartel exists with oil only it is not as readily seen because of the illusion of "anti-trust" laws.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-03-15   13:10:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Rotara (#32)

Spot On

Thanks. I wish it were not so, but it is.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-03-15   13:11:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Original_Intent (#33) (Edited)

How deep are the deepest offshore oil platforms tapping crude ? 5 miles ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   13:11:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Original_Intent (#34)

They got control of EVERYTHING and are shutting it down it appears. I'm sure what they plan to construct in the future, on the Global interplanetary model, will be a ton of fun for the whole fambly...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   13:15:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Rotara (#35)

How deep are the deepest offshore oil platforms tapping crude ?

I don't know for sure. I know the ones in the Gulf of Mexico often go more that 500 to a couple thousand feet beneath the sea floor, and that some in Russia have gone as deep as 30,000 feet (well below any level that would support the "Oil is Dead Dinosaurs" claptrap). If I guess correctly where you're headed the answer is no they have not gone real deep - to my knowledge.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-03-15   13:16:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Original_Intent (#37)

some in Russia have gone as deep as 30,000 feet (well below any level that would support the "Oil is Dead Dinosaurs" claptrap...

O-b-i-n-g-o !


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   13:18:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Rotara (#36)

I think it very likely that we really don't need the oil, other than for lubricants, were the existing suppressed technology released.

As well I think we already have practical interplanetary travel but again, to maintain control over the society, it is kept locked up. We had the technology to reach Mars 30 years ago, but NASA has been kept, intentionally I believe, starved for funds in order to prevent it. You see Mars has artifacts of advanced civilization. That alone released into the general public would cause a worldwide shift in viewpoint in literally months. The controllers do not want that as it upsets their Psychiatric control systems which relies on artificial shortages and controlled access to knowledge.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-03-15   13:21:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Original_Intent (#39)

i'm waiting for their biggest lie yet and looking for it soon...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2010-03-15   13:27:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: James Deffenbach (#24)

A long time ago, I worked for an independent oilman who was also a geologist. He was not a part of Big Oil. That's why he was called "independent." If he had thought the East Texas Oil Field was filling back up with crude as fast as it was being pumped to the surface, he would have obtained a drilling permit from the Railroad Commission and gone back into the Woodbine. He was not a part of some conspiracy to keep it off the market.

At that time, the "awl bidness" was booming and so any new discoveries would have been welcomed and would have commanded an at-that-time near-record high price of $30 to $33 per barrel. Right after that, Saudi Arabia flooded the market in a secret agreement with the CIA under William Casey and drove the price below $10 a barrel. This was done to bankrupt the USSR. It also destroyed Texas for a few years. I think they call what happened to us "collateral damage."

A geologist named M. King Hubbert correctly predicted 14 years before it happened the year oil production would peak in the U.S.

Hubbert is most well-known for his studies on the capacities of oil fields and natural gas reserves. He predicted that, for any given geographical area, from an individual oil field to the planet as a whole, the rate of petroleum production of the reserve over time would resemble a bell curve. Based on his theory, he presented a paper to the 1956 meeting of the American Petroleum Institute in San Antonio, Texas, which predicted that overall petroleum production would peak in the United States between the late 1960s and the early 1970s.[4] At first his prediction received much criticism, for the most part because many other predictions of oil capacity had been made over the preceding half century, but these had been based purely on reserve and production, data rather than past discovery trends, and had proven false.[5] Hubbert became famous when this prediction proved correct in 1970.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2010-03-15   13:39:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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