See other 9/11 Articles
Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken
Source:
Seattle Times
URL Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht ... /2003250424_911conspire09.html
Published: Sep 09, 2006
Author: Michael Powell, wapo
Post Date: 2010-07-19 22:23:35 by Dakmar
Keywords: None
Views: 19380
Comments: 989
They are politically diverse and include academics, ex-officials and Web surfers. All share a belief that the Bush administration played a role in the 9/11 attacks. Their numbers seem to speak to Americans' innate distrust of their government. The Washington Post NEW YORK — He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours. He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaida had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen. It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered. "To me, the report read as a cartoon," Griffin said. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." Such as? "There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives." If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the extent of belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. 36 percent suspicious A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act." Establishment assessments of the believers tend toward the psychotherapeutic. Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It's a piling up of improbabilities. Thomas Eager, a professor of materials science at MIT, has studied the collapse of the twin towers. "At first, I thought it was amazing that the buildings would come down in their own footprints," Eager says. "Then I realized that it wasn't that amazing — it's the only way a building that weighs a million tons and is 95 percent air can come down." But the chatter out there is loud enough for the National Institute of Standards and Technology to post a Web "fact sheet" poking holes in the conspiracy theories and defending its report on the towers. Motley crew The loose agglomeration known as the "9/11 Truth Movement" has stopped looking for truth from the government. A cacophonous and free-range a bunch of conspiracists, they produce hip-hop inflected documentaries and scholarly conferences. The Web is their mother lode. Every citizen is a researcher. Did you see that the CIA met with bin Laden in a hospital room in Dubai? Check out this Pakistani site; there are really weird doings in Baluchistan ... Peter Knight, senior lecturer in American studies at the University of Manchester and editor of the 2002 book "Conspiracy Nation: The Politics of Paranoia in Postwar America," called the movement "a strange beast, an amalgam of elements. You've got the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war crowd — you know, if they lied about the war, maybe they lied about 9/11. Another part is people merely interested in the anomalies, with no preconceived political agenda. "Then you have the more traditional right-wing conspiracy part of the continuum that believes a vast cabal has taken over the United States, the mega-conspiracy of the right's new world order. To them, all of these things are connected. Each group inserts 9/11 into its pre-existing conspiracy model." The academic wing is led by Griffin, who founded the Center for a Postmodern World at Claremont University; James Fetzer, a tenured philosopher at the University of Minnesota; and Daniel Orr, retired chairman of the economics department at the University of Illinois. Professor suspended The movement's de facto minister of engineering is Steven Jones, a tenured physics professor at Brigham Young University who has studied vectors and velocities and tested explosives and concluded that the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition, sped by a thousand pounds of high-grade thermite. Jones has been placed on paid leave while the Mormon-church-owned school investigates his claims, it was announced Friday. The physicist published his views two weeks ago in the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out." Former Reagan aide Barbara Honegger is a senior military-affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. She's convinced, based on her freelance research, that a bomb went off about six minutes before an airplane hit the Pentagon — or didn't hit it, as some believe the case may be. Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss. "Who did it? Elements of our government and M-16 and the Mossad. The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11," Reynolds asserts. They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other — who knows where the double agents lurk? But unreasonable questions resonate with the reasonable. Colleen Kelly's brother, a salesman, had breakfast at the Windows on the World restaurant on Sept. 11. After he died she founded September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows to oppose the Iraq war. She lives in the Bronx and gives a gingerly embrace to the conspiracy crowd. "Sometimes I listen to them and I think that's sooooo outlandish and bizarre," she says. "But that day had such disastrous geopolitical consequences. If David Ray Griffin asks uncomfortable questions and points out painful discrepancies, good for him." Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," sold more than 100,000 copies and became a movement founding stone. Last year he traveled through New England, giving speeches. One evening in West Hartford, Conn., 400 mostly middle-aged and upper-middle-class doctors and lawyers, teachers and social workers sat waiting. Griffin took the podium and laid down his ideas with calm and cool. He concluded: "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed." The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute. No patience Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston-based left-leaning think tank, is no fan of the 9/11 Commission. He believes a serious investigation should have led to indictments and the firing of incompetent generals and civilian officials. But he has no patience with the conspiracy theorists. "They don't do their homework; it's a kind of charlatanism," says Berlet. "They say there's no debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, but they base their analysis on a photo on the Internet. That's like analyzing an impressionist painting by looking at a postcard. "I love 'The X-Files' but I don't base my research on it. My vision of hell is having to review these [conspiracy] books over and over again." In the days after Sept. 11, experts claimed temperatures reached 2,000 degrees on the upper floors. Others claimed steel melted. Nope. What happened, says Eager, the MIT materials-science professor, is that jet fuel sloshed around and beams got rubbery. "It's not too much to think that you could have some regions at 900 degrees and others at 1,200 degrees, and that will distort the beams." The truth movement doesn't really care for Eager. A Web site casts a fisheye of suspicion at the professor and his colleagues. "Did the MIT have prior knowledge?" notes one chat room. "This is for sure another speculative topic ... " Professsor Jones' suspension was reported Friday by The Associated Press. Peter Knight was quoted by McClatchy Newspapers.
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#863. To: Original_Intent (#861)
Haven't seen any pictures of people wearing hazmat suits at the Pentagon "crash site", although I HAVE seen images of guys with suits "picking up debris"...
I think the crew and passengers onboard the "hijacked aircraft" were either subdued or killed with some form of chemical agent introduced into the plane's ventilation system, THEN the remote control took over. Perhaps on Flight 93 the gas failed to release, thus when the remote control took over, the crew took steps to counteract it, leading to the necessity of them being shot down. Definitely 93 is a puzzler. Something went wrong from the point of view of the conspirators. What it was is the puzzler.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Haven't seen any pictures of people wearing hazmat suits at the Pentagon "crash site", although I HAVE seen images of guys with suits "picking up debris"... Whatever was in the bags was fairly heavy - you can tell that by the way they are leaning to support the weight. However, other than it is suspicious there is insufficient data to draw a conclusion.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I think we both agree that the crew somehow overcame whatever was done to the flight systems, and regained control of the aircraft. Due to that, they had to get shot down.
I'd like to see any sort of official investigation identify those individuals, and have them testify under oath what was in those bags, and whether or not any of those individuals were part of the photo shoot showing men in suits running around the Pentagon lawn picking up debis. If everybody among the brass with honor walked away from the Military because government is being run by demigogue diabolicals instigating wars instead of being reined in by We the People like it's supposed to be, then all that would be left guiding our service members in harm's way would be demigogue diabolicals who couldn't care less about them.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I think we both agree that the crew somehow overcame whatever was done to the flight systems, and regained control of the aircraft. Due to that, they had to get shot down. Yes, however it came to be the crew was able to regain control of the plane and the last thing they wanted was live witnesses. I hadn't thought of the gas angle, but the bastards are evil enough to just whack all the passengers with sarin or some such as that would put them "out of the way". Certainly the operation had been in the planning stages for at least 2 or 3 years so they would have had time to select their planes and rig them well in advance.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I'd like to see any sort of official investigation identify those individuals, and have them testify under oath what was in those bags, and whether or not any of those individuals were part of the photo shoot showing men in suits running around the Pentagon lawn picking up debis. Given the description on the clip you posted those are some nice chunks. Yes, there are a lot of things about 911 that need an honest and thorough investigation.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Doesn't the guy with the balding head and white shirt left of center in the CNN video snapshot look similar to either suited individual in the Pentagon "debris pickup" photo? The one in the first image is wearing a short sleeve shirt, where in the 2nd photo each person is wearing a long sleeved shirt. I'm sure they could fit a shirt in those bags, and the long sleeve shirts DO appear to be a bit wrinkled.
I can't take credit for it, wudidiz posted it on this thread first, and I just looked at it and found a few things that were a bit out of place...
Similar but it looks to me like the one in the short sleeves is a bit broader with beefier arms.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Just edited the post, I actually think the guy in front could be the same as in the 1st image, although they both look very similar in appearance.
I can't take credit for it, wudidiz posted it on this thread first, and I just looked at it and found a few things that were a bit out of place... Got it. If I wasn't getting so sleepy I'd dig up a diagram of the Flt. 77 approach and do some looking and comparing, but as it stands now I have a loaf of bread that just started beeping at me to come take it out of the oven and then I'm going to bed. So, another day. Take care and keep the shiny side up.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
That certainly seems logical. I don't know that our troops benefit from officers who care, though. The decisions that put troops in harm's way are still made by people with the courage, character and patriotism of Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney. (or shadowy, IMF, BIG OIL or Israeli puppeteers who get what they want regardless of the field commanders' concerns, recommendations or wishes) And, I can't think of any officers in my lifetime who had the courage that Butler had, and even he waited until after his retirement to go public. So, "officers who care" but won't risk their careers, especially those who are West Point or Annapolis and legacies from proud military families don't seem to make much of a difference. Those who pride themselves on the courage to lead troops into battle without hesitation when their personal safety is at risk and there's no guarantee that any gains won't be returned by policy makers the next day simply aren't taught (or conditioned) to second guess asshole civilians who claim to "see the big picture". In truth I can't fault any officer who refuses to fall on her/his sword in what would almost certainly be an exercise in futility, especially since dumb ass Americans' would probably fail to support him or especially HER in any meaningful way. ("WE AIN'T GONNA RISK OUR GUMMINT PENSIONS TO SUPPORT A SUSPECTED COWARD!"-I don't blame most seniors for not forgoing social security checks on principle. I don't know any seniors who are wealthy enough to do that, and Hell, I'd eat govt cheese on Chinese WALMART crackers {made with real gypsum! Strong bones and teeth!} to keep the buzzards off my back) I don't expect to shame anyone into anything and I only used the example to amplify and juxtapose the state worship mentality then and now, here and there.
Never said anything of the sort. Are you taking English tutoring from Hanjour's teachers?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gracias amigo.
I liked your example about the vintage doctor movie. I like to believe these legends about Puller are true: that he refused a winter coat until his men had one, that he gave his own coat to someone he saw who didn't have one. That might not sound much like honor or great benefit and care but in Korea during the winter, described as hell froze over, I consider that heroic. The Military aren't politicians. They need to focus on preparedness and surviving in battle and helping those around them to survive. Many have to maintain security clearances in order to do whatever good they can, however infested D.C. is with the monsterous. It's not their job to initiate a Civil War. It's ours to see that our system of government works as it should so that they aren't thrown like gladiators into arenas of war and survival by Ceasar-types and their minions.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
During the USS Liberty discussions, I had to question why McGonagle didn't implement the chemical drill steps (which were practiced earlier that day) when something was dropped onto the ship from an Israeli helicopter after the attacks. Same sort of question comes to mind about why anyone was running around supposedly picking up debris soon after a terror strike. Why would they presume it was safe to do so without hazmat suits? It's not like they had to hurry up about clearing the lawn for appearances.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Indeed it was, Sir. I met a black Korean War vet about 40 years ago when he was delivering meat to a restaurant, and he told me that because of Pork Chop Hill he could not put a pork chop in his mouth, 17 years after the battle. Others related the stacking of bodies at The Chosin Reservoir because the ground was frozen harder than tank armor. Based on your account of Chesty's sacrifice I'd certainly be willing to concede that he cared about his men as much as his intellect permitted. He seemed to love the glory of war and was not known to ever question the noble goals of the planners, and I've often heard marines say that a good marine would never do that. That may be reason to swell with pride as a marine, and it certainly benefits those who may need men to "march into Hell without question or pause" but looking at "the big picture" (and in light of the survey a few years ago asking if marines would disarm Americans if ordered to do so) I can see where troops trained not to question the morality or the constitutionality of any orders could be laying the foundation for "something wicked this way comes...." If Lt. William Calley (Us Army) had his way the victims of The Mai Lai Massacre would have been killed and buried with industrial efficiency and we'd be none the wiser. I can only wonder if Calley asked himself, "What would Chesty do?"
Alleged Flight 11 wasn't reported as terror until alleged Flight 175 was reported as such. Could be it was hoped that the Fl. 175 scenario would be canceled if the Fl. 11 upstaging knocked alleged Fl. 93 from the NY scripting. I suspect that UA93 and UA175, which were actual planes scheduled to fly that day, might have been intended by the inside jobbers to be disappeared into the black market for dual use parts and $$$. UA93 was apparently spotted as intact afterwards rather than parted out or otherwise transferred to the underworld, perhaps because the inside jobbers knew it was being watched after their plans went awry. A youngish commander of the Ohio flight crew who were deployed to intercept UA93 was reported dead of a heart attack soon after. Because I am a No Planes researcher/investigator, I don't believe it was shot down or that there were "valiant passengers" aboard who decided to take it upon themselves to kill everybody before said hijackers did by not waiting for air support to arrive to possibly bring the plane and passengers down to a safe landing. The reported meandering and moseying flight paths do appear to indicate that there was a remote control struggle back and forth between hijackers and counter- hijackers but I think it may be just for show. I suspect there are people on the victims lists that were killed or vanished and their names inserted as a cover for their disappearance and the buildings, insurance scamming, and that sort of thing. Rather mundane Mafia-esq criminality but on a very large scale is what the NO Planes section of the Truth Movement was/is pursuing -- not really "kooky" stuff at all if looked at closely and that's what makes calls from some seeming Truther Top Guns to tar and feather us as "well poisoners" so bizarre and complicit sounding.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Earlier in this posting session, I was trying to recall a conversation at LF where I called the alleged plane entry points at the WTC "glory holes", one of the definitions of which is: There are even definitions of that phrase for oil industry drilling and Navy definitions. Since the Pentagon was struck in the area of Naval Intelligence on 9/11, this definition seems appropriate here: It can seem oftentimes like there are far too few to nearly no good stewards in the quarters of our ship of state in D.C, or the Military, or locally -- just stokers of war and profiteering, mayhem and devastation. If you can't always easily see the good stewards, that might not be quite as bad as it seems because maybe those bad stokers can't see them either.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
That was an excellent post, Dawg. "You done good" as they say.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. At this point there are few things I rule out categorically as the truth is often times stranger than fiction. As well, at this point in the game, so much in the way of false trails and disinformation has been planted that I tread very carefully in making assertions without having a firm footing, and there is not a lot of firm footing in the PsyOp that was called 911. Much of 911, I believe, has to be looked at first as a Psychological Operation with Psychiatrists, likely CIA/Mossad/MI-6(think Tavistock Institute), planning the show. 911 was conducted for the effect it would create. It was an effect calculated to numb, terrorize, and herd people into accepting actions, presumptions, and incursions upon their liberty, along with unneeded wars, in ways that would have been strongly resisted without that Psychological/Psychiatric set-up. Remember the news coverage and the overly frequent replaying of the video of the planes crashing into the towers? That was done, I believe, to reinforce and increase the affect of the horror of the event. It was not just the Newsghouls in a feeding frenzy but had a specific purpose. One of the things that has stuck with me is something John Coleman commented on in an interview with Jeff Rense back during the Kosovo bombing campaign mess (at least I believe it was Coleman - been a few years - but the datum stuck and fits as the M.O. for the 911 PsyOp) that a leaked Tavistock Manual contained a section on how to influence a large population group through the use of a massive shock to numb them and temporarily take away their normal resistance to incursions upon their freedoms and/or to resist activities they otherwise would. There was a large agenda predicated on 911 and its psychological affect to undercut resistance even to the point of having some individuals treat anyone as asking questions as a "traitor". Remember the bot refrain - "why do you hate Amurka'"? This was reinforced by other PsyOp outlets such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. The obvious, to me anyway, PsyOp reinforcement going on was one of the first things that convinced me with utter cold certainty that 911 was an inside job. I had doubts almost from day 1 because of NORAD's incompetent non-response. I was in the military and have been an aviation nut since I was barely out of diapers so I have a good feel for what NORAD is and the level of skill and knowledge it represents. There are many things NORAD is, but incompetent to this degree they are not. Therefore if one rejects the NORAD incompetence plea (note that no one at NORAD has ever been disciplined in any way however small) then that leads immediately to the logical inference that the 911 terror event had support from the highest levels of the Military Industrial/Intelligence Complex. So, the first thing we can conclude from the events around 911 was that it was conducted with the blessing of the forces now in control of our government. The rest is details and the mechanics of how the operation was conducted. So, here we have arrived at the basic "why". Why was the 911 operation conducted? And who conducted it? The why becomes obvious in light of penumbra of surrounding events - the MIC needs wars to justify the existence of its machinery, status, and ability to make money. Historically international banking criminals such as the Rothschilds and Rockefellers profit heavily from wars, and as well there is an implied control agenda conforming to a long term plan to establish greater control over all the people's of the world. From there we could quickly digress into other supporting datums, such as "Agenda 21", but that would be a digression for the moment. So, we have established Motive i.e., political benefits - control. A secondary motive is financial as the inside players personally profit in money from all of the carnage they wreak (attractive if you are a psychotic conscienceless monster only interested in power and money). So, the circumstances and events continue to lead us back to a coterie of the most powerful interests in our current society - bankers, the military, military industrialists, and their political pawns - such as the former and current Imbeciles of The United States. So, now that we have the why motive and means we can then begin to expand the outline to fill in some of the broader headings. Technical know-how is easily provided by the black-ops/Intelligence community which is also the abode for the soulless Psychiatrists and Psychologists calculating the affects of their operation upon the target group - the American Public. As well they provide the know how in air operations, the operation of air defense, and explosives technology. I have seen and heard it said that the technical level in the black ops world is, at any given moment, 20 to 40 years ahead of what is available in the unclassified world. I believe that to be a true statement based on the snippets, inferences, and leaks of what little does seep out through the cracks. As illustration of what I mean the late Mr. Northrop, founder of Northrop Aviation, is reported, perhaps apocryphally, to have confided tearfully to a small group at an aside to a dinner party "we have the stars but they won't let us go". Who the "they" is was never clarified, but it is instructive at giving a hint as to the level of technology available that is kept out of sight and public awareness. (As an aside I personally think that the technology to quickly, and relatively easily, explore the entire solar system has been available since at least the early 80's if not as far back as the late 60's. The English Hacker McKinnon whom the Pentagon is desperately trying to get extradited from England reported as one of his finds in the Pentagon's computer system the personnel transfer of officers between units of the extraterrestrial fleet is a tantalizing tidbit suggestive of a level of technology the general public is conditioned to think of as "science fiction".) Having taken the long way around to set it up yes I do believe the "no-plane" scenario to be technically possible, but I also do not believe it to be the case for a couple of factors. 1. Holograms don't make sounds. They are images only and as such to create convincing realism one has to have the sound effects. 2. The mechanics of creating such an illusion would be technically more difficult to produce, and likely require more people "in the know", than just using real hijacked aircraft. So, for reasons of practicality, not lack of technology, I think the no-plane scenario a no-go. I do believe it to be a planted disinformation meme and trail. Returning to the main event. We could easily make a list of things that we can nail down with some certainty: 1. The 911 event as staged could not have gone off as it did without the support of people at the highest levels of power in our society and government. The operation was conducted in a manner and fashion well beyond the capabilities of a group of semi-literate Arabs (not to disparage them it is simply true) and orchestrated by cellphone out of cave in Afghanistan. 2. Without discussing their relative merits the technical skills and know-how exist to have implemented any of the major contending theories of how it was carried out. 3. As alluded to in "1" above the supposed hijackers were, based upon extensive research into their backgrounds, neither skillful to carry this off and neither were they "devout muslim fanatics™". By all records researched of their behavior they appear to have been black ops mercenaries who were sacrificed as pawns in a larger maneuver. From there we have a starting place to fill out the rest of the details. And while the details are of interest they are not necessary to the most important conclusion: 911 was very definitely an inside job. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I knew there was someone I left off the ping list. It was the fault of the Leprecohens - those damn Jewish Leprechauns do it to me every time.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I don't believe this for a second. If anything, they are behind the curve in technology. Most technological advances do not come from these warmongers, they come from private businesses seeking to make a good product that benefits people for a profit. Warmongers then either buy these companies out or steal their inventions, they don't create much of anything on their own. The military industrial complex is know by its fruits, and those fruits are death, destruction and waste, it is not technological innovations. We are exploring the solar system now, it is not a secret. The probes to Mars and Jupiter and its moons are not hidden. If you mean advanced, as in human travel throughout the solar system, then I doubt they have that capability considering they can't even show men on the moon but have to resort to film studios to give the illusion they are there.
God is always good!
What makes you think the US government does't RIP you off every day? Still your silly post means something especial... you believe the fuckers of our nation at the highest level care and even concern themselves about you or the taxpayer////... you are akin to FL and O_I, begging for government.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Have you ever worked at a classified government research facility? Are you forgetting about the Manhatten Project, and the fact that project produced the world's first atom bombs? The military industrial complex is know by its fruits, and those fruits are death, destruction and waste, it is not technological innovations. It might not be a positive innovation, but advanced technology using engineering methods unknown outside of classified circles would still be advanced technology.
I don't believe this for a second. If anything, they are behind the curve in technology. Just to cite an example - the SR-71 Mach 3+ super spy plane was operational in 1958. The government would not even admit its existence until 1972. Based on photos and leaks the black world had a launch vehicle to orbit, from a piggy back set up, at least by the mid 90's. Again from leaks etc., the integrated circuit chip was first developed in the black ops world and then seeded into private industry. HAARP relies on, as near as anyone can tell, Scalar Technology developed by Nikola Tesla in the early part of the twentieth century. I believe it very likely that we have already had one or more manned missions to Mars. NASA is a "Dog and Pony" show using out of date technology, starved for funds to keep it so, and the real advanced stuff is buried in high security super secret test areas like Area 51, and others not known of, where the compartmentalization and secrecy is such that once you're in, you're in - forever. While there is no definite confirmation there are rumors that ancient high tech depositories have been excavated, looted, and reverse engineered. Don't kid yourself we ARE NOT the apex of technologic achievement and based on the Indian Vedas and other physical evidences we have not yet reached the levels achieved by at least one prior advanced culture on this planet. For example Christopher Dunn, an aerospace machinist, has photos of things done in Egypt that could only have been done with powered rock cutting saws with precision adjustments able to cut complex curves. The "Sarcophagus" in the "King's Chamber" in the Great Pyramid is cut to such close tolerance that it is aerospace grade - the corners are "true" to within thousandths of an inch. Because there is much incompetence in government, and corruption, do not mistake that for an inability to run secret research programs dealing in things that will not be public for another 30 to 50 years. For example I suspect that we already have a working fusion reactor design and the reason I believe that is the suppression of projects that were on the edge of becoming working installations and were shut down. As well the money spent to prop up programs that continually fail, but are useful to draw public attention - "watch this hand - not the other.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
No, I wouldn't work for them for any amount of money. Yes, they did do that, but then again, who else would produce them but warmongers, no one else would even want to.
God is always good!
I took the time to write something meaningful, and you disrespect me with this shit? If you aren't going to make an effort then please don't even flag me. Your reply is the equivalent of scribbling with crayons and pretending that it's art.
lolol... oh dear
oh dear buck can mosh with the best of them when he tries. And I'd just love to see a point by point refutation of my post if he thinks he can sidestep or "employ angular momentum"against" the truth long enough. But, this deliberate diversion or more accurately, wild ass ricochet away from the heart of the discussion topped off with the assertion that calling out NORAD (and by implication The FAA and the airlines) as the complicit, conspiratorial liars they are is "demanding mo' gummint", well, I have to wonder if he let his cat walk on his keypad to type out that nonsense. I mean, if he's eagerly anticipating his nightly bubble bath or otherwise preoccupied I wouldn't mind waiting for a reply. But, I won't accept this half assed judo throw horseshit.
If you aren't going to make an effort then please don't even flag me. Your reply is the equivalent of scribbling with crayons and pretending that it's art. LOL! Buck is a lot like Shirley Q. Liquor in that he "don't know what he's dur'n" or even talkin' about.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You: Those are Original_Indent auditors, supposed to have been killed by the Pentagon Pea Porridge "Not too hot, not too cold" event on 911. Which wasn't violent enough to get rid of the Pentagon principals like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, but was managed well enough to kill all the heroic accountants, about to uncover a trillion dollar fraud, they couldn't be persuaded to be quiet about. Unlike all the tens of thousands of other 911 conspirators not one of whom has ever come forward. Original_Intent auditors? -- not Pentagon auditors?; or are you insinuating that he made them up and they weren't killed? A trillion dollar fraud is a whole lotta "beans", as you say, but whose counting, eh? Me and that trillion is a huge shortcount that's missing about 1.3 trillion more. I wonder who this unnamed, lucky Army auditor from Ft. Monmouth, NJ on temp duty at the Pentagon was in the article RickyJ posted @ #422. I suppose we'd have to contact the author of the article, Barbara Honegger, to have him called as a witness. Excerpt from 911caper.com/2010/07/07/the-pentagon-attack-papers/: I have interviewed an Army auditor from Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey, who was on temporary duty assignment at the Pentagon before, on and after 9/11. He was in the Army financial management spaces only minutes before the Pentagon explosion on the morning of 9/11. He had just returned to his temporary office on the ground floor of the adjacent south side of the Pentagon by the cafeteria when he heard an explosion and felt the building shake. Immediately afterwards, he said, hundreds of panicked Pentagon personnel ran by him down the corridor just outside his office and out the South Entrance, yelling “Bombs!” and “A bomb went off!” The witness has requested that his name not be used in this summary, but is willing to testify to a grand jury or independent official investigation. This Army financial management/audit area is part of, or contiguous to, the Army personnel offices, which was one of two main west section offices heavily destroyed in the Pentagon attack, the other being the Naval Command Center. The day before 9/11, September 10, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld held a press conference at which he acknowledged that the Pentagon was “missing”—could not account for and needed to “find”—$2.3 Trillion dollars (other reports said $2.6 Trillion). Were the auditors who could “follow the money,” and the computers whose data could help them do it, intentionally targeted? It is worth noting that the Pentagon’s top financial officer at the time, Dov Zakheim
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
The missing funds stories at the Pentagon actually go back decades and cover several administrations both Democrat & Republican. The processes in the Pentagon and its contractors were always sloppy. There was no need to cover up for Bush and Rumsefeld especially kill auditors whose work would have covered many years going even before Lyndon B. Johnson.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you ever had just-beyond-reach memories that needed retrieving? Here is one of mine, fortunately found for me by Agora Financial Publications July 28, 2010. In reference to a film produced in cooperation with former US Comptroller David Walker, a conference speaker reminisced: "There was also the special moment in I.O.U.S.A. when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said during a speech, 'According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.' Trillion with a 't.' He delivered that speech, by the way, on Sept. 10, 2001." Here is another memory but it needs verifying. Some time ago I read that the wing of the Pentagon struck on Sept. 11, 2001, housed relatively few people but did include the accounting staff and the records pertaining to the missing $2.3 trillion. Just a link in the chain, maybe...
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Oh yeah, sneaking in for 900.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
i remember that.
Are you trying to say that Rumsfeld did NOT deliver an admission on 9/10/2001 that the DOD couldn't account for 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS? I don't recall any other such admission by a Secretary of Defense, ever.
I wonder if aggravator is saying or implying that they lose 2.3 trillion or so with every new administration or every year. Seems like a huge pile of money if they are "losing" that on a regular basis. Even just once is a huge pile of money.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThey could be Hazmat suits or they could be carrying in "debris".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#864. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist (#862)
I have wondered, and speculated, if there was not someone on board 93 who understood Avionics well enough to find and disconnect the remote control system. Someone aware of the system and was able to deduce and trace where the control lines would be and find "the box" and return control of the aircraft to the pilot or it malfunctioned with the same effect.
#865. To: FormerLurker (#863)
They could be Hazmat suits or they could be carrying in "debris".
#866. To: Original_Intent (#864)
Definitely 93 is a puzzler. Something went wrong from the point of view of the conspirators. What it was is the puzzler.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#867. To: Original_Intent (#865)
(Edited)
Whatever was in the bags was fairly heavy - you can tell that by the way they are leaning to support the weight. However, other than it is suspicious there is insufficient data to draw a conclusion.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#868. To: HOUNDDAWG (#850)
(Edited)
#869. To: FormerLurker (#866)
Definitely 93 is a puzzler. Something went wrong from the point of view of the conspirators. What it was is the puzzler.
#870. To: FormerLurker (#867)
Whatever was in the bags was fairly heavy - you can tell that by the way they are leaning to support the weight. However, other than it is suspicious there is insufficient data to draw a conclusion.
#871. To: Original_Intent, ALL (#865)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#872. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz (#870)
Given the description on the clip you posted those are some nice chunks.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#873. To: FormerLurker (#871)
Doesn't the guy with the balding head and white shirt left of center in the CNN video snapshot look similar to the guy who is behind the other suited individual in the Pentagon "debris pickup" photo?
#874. To: Original_Intent (#873)
Similar but it looks to me like the one in the short sleeves is a bit broader with beefier arms.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#875. To: FormerLurker (#872)
Given the description on the clip you posted those are some nice chunks.
#876. To: HOUNDDAWG, abraxas, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, buckeroo, christine, Jethro_Tull, SonOfLiberty, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator, farmfriend, *Post Of The Day* (#850)
#877. To: GreyLmist (#868)
If everybody among the brass with honor walked away from the military because government is being run by demagogue diabolicals instigating wars instead of being reined in by We the People like it's supposed to be, then all that would be left guiding our service members in harm's way would be demagogue diabolicals who couldn't care less about them.
#878. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#849)
you just tried to create your own laws of aerodynamics and state that a jet which is pointed down and diving at high speed will magically climb once it gets close to the ground and avoid impact
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#879. To: Original_Intent (#856)
#880. To: HOUNDDAWG (#877)
#881. To: FormerLurker (#867)
the photo shoot showing men in suits running around the Pentagon lawn picking up debis.
#882. To: GreyLmist (#880)
I like to believe these legends about Puller are true: that he refused a winter coat until his men had one, that he gave his own coat to someone he saw who didn't have one. That might not sound much like honor or great benefit and care but in Korea during the winter, described as hell froze over, I consider that heroic.
#883. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, All (#864)
(Edited)
Definitely 93 is a puzzler. Something went wrong from the point of view of the conspirators. What it was is the puzzler.
#884. To: HOUNDDAWG (#882)
The opening of the furnace used to keep the glass hot and workable. Several different sizes may be attached to a large furnace or you might have only one size on a small one that rotate open and closed depending on were the glass project is at. The cylinder is usually heated up to 2300 degrees.
www.glassblowers.org/HotGlassDictionary.htmthe quarters on a ship that are occupied by the stewards or stokers. Also, a small storeroom within the hull of a ship, usually at the stern; also called "lazaretto". Also, an enclosed space or locker for stowing loose gear. Also, a place for concealing valuables, a cache hideaway or treasure trove.
www.combat.ws/S4/MILTERMS/DIVING.HTM
#885. To: HOUNDDAWG (#850)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#886. To: GreyLmist, FormerLurker, wudidiz, abraxas, christine, HOUNDDAWG, Eric Stratton, RickyJ, IRTorqued, Critter, all, *Escape From ElPee* (#883)
(Edited)
Rather mundane Mafia-esq criminality but on a very large scale is what the NO Planes section of the Truth Movement was/is pursuing -- not really "kooky" stuff at all if looked at closely and that's what makes calls from some seeming Truther Top Guns to tar and feather us as "well poisoners" so bizarre and complicit sounding.
1.a. A subset of this would be the need to create real physical damage that can be photographed and is convincing to a public unaware that it was a staged event.
So, using a holgraphic projection is simply more complex to implement than using real aircraft. This is augumented very strongly by the fact that the Bush Administration, while making pious high profile propaganda statements about getting the perpetrators, fought the creation of an investigatory commission for over a year. When the commission was created it was hamstrung by limitations in scope and budget. The final report of said commission has now been repudiated by the Chair and Vice-Chair of the commission saying that the government lied even to them. (Why would government agencies and personnel lie to a government commission if not to obscure and keep incriminating information under cover?)
"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes." ~ Benjamin Disraeli
#887. To: Dakmar (#886)
#888. To: Original_Intent (#886)
(Edited)
I have seen and heard it said that the technical level in the black ops world is, at any given moment, 20 to 40 years ahead of what is available in the unclassified world.
As an aside I personally think that the technology to quickly, and relatively easily, explore the entire solar system has been available since at least the early 80's if not as far back as the late 60's.
#889. To: HOUNDDAWG, wudidiz, abraxas, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, buckeroo, christine, Jethro_Tull, SonOfLiberty, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator, farmfriend (#850)
THAT DAY, NORAD and the entire system was off their game.
#890. To: RickyJ, Original_Intent (#888)
I don't believe this for a second. If anything, they are behind the curve in technology.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#891. To: RickyJ (#888)
I have seen and heard it said that the technical level in the black ops world is, at any given moment, 20 to 40 years ahead of what is available in the unclassified world.
We are exploring the solar system now, it is not a secret. The probes to Mars and Jupiter and its moons are not hidden. If you mean advanced, as in human travel throughout the solar system, then I doubt they have that capability considering they can't even show men on the moon but have to resort to film studios to give the illusion they are there.
#892. To: FormerLurker (#890)
Have you ever worked at a classified government research facility?
Are you forgetting about the Manhatten Project, and the fact that project produced the world's first atom bombs?
#893. To: buckeroo, wudidiz, abraxas, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, christine, Jethro_Tull, SonOfLiberty, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator, farmfriend (#889)
What makes you think the US government does't RIP you off every day? Still your silly post means something especial... you believe the fuckers of our nation at the highest level care and even concern themselves about you or the taxpayer////... you are akin to FL and O_I, begging for government.
#894. To: HOUNDDAWG, *Post Of The Day* (#893)
#895. To: wudidiz, buckeroo, abraxas, Original_Intent, christine, Jethro_Tull, SonOfLiberty, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator, farmfriend (#894)
lolol...
#896. To: HOUNDDAWG (#893)
I took the time to write something meaningful, and you disrespect me with this shit?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#897. To: AGAviator (#585)
(Edited)
Me: So who are those you've alledged to be "Bean Counters", AGA?
#898. To: GreyLmist (#897)
A trillion dollar fraud is a whole lotta "beans", as you say, but whose counting, eh? Me and that trillion is a huge shortcount that's missing about 1.3 trillion more.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#899. To: Original_Intent, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, wudidiz, abraxas, christine, HOUNDDAWG, Eric Stratton, RickyJ, IRTorqued, Critter (#886)
#900. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#899)
#901. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#899)
Here is another memory but it needs verifying. Some time ago I read that the wing of the Pentagon struck on Sept. 11, 2001, housed relatively few people but did include the accounting staff and the records pertaining to the missing $2.3 trillion.
#902. To: AGAviator, GreyLmist (#898)
The missing funds stories at the Pentagon actually go back decades and cover several administrations both Democrat & Republican. The processes in the Pentagon and its contractors were always sloppy.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#903. To: FormerLurker (#902)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
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