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Title: Satan's Money
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Published: Aug 11, 2010
Author: Pastor Eli James
Post Date: 2010-08-11 19:31:03 by Itistoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 544
Comments: 29
Unless you understand this you will not know why things are happening in the world today.
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#1. To: Itistoolate (#0)
god - satan - same enemy playing different roles herding the sheeple afore them
How World Jewry Has Masterminded the Islamic Jihad
WHO OWNS THE US MEDIA?
Cathar?
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
I don't claim membership in any group though I do seem to resonate with the basic tenant of the old Gnostics, before the christians came along and demonized the term, just like they demonized every other concept and entity that offered humanity knowledge of something other than that monster they worship who taught them to practice genocide so well ~
I will take a wild off the wall guess at this one. Satan?
God is always good!
Pastor Eli James Introduction
Actually, the Cathar were Christian Gnostics. They were persecuted and wiped out by the Catholic church, fully, by the 1300's. If you've not studied them, they're a fascinating group of people and seemed to me to be pretty damned pious, unassuming, peaceful and salt of the earth. It wasn't "Christianity" that wiped them out, they were Christians, it was the Roman Catholic church of the time that did so. There were some other rather gnostic-ish sects of Christianity at the time as I understand it. The entire religion of Christianity is not to blame here.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
~ thank you for the tip, I will follow up on that, some of my root beiefs seem hard wired in and it is interesting to learn they were common place at one time, I sure as hell wasn't taught them by the society I was born into ... and thanks also for the respectful response to my obvious 'tude' of late ~ I've been bit in the ass real hard last dozen years by several 'christians' about a 1/2 dozen joos and a but load of 'lightworkers' ~ now days I just get p*** off when I think about organized religions and the damage them people can do... best bumper sticker in this case perhaps "Dear Jesus, please protect me from your followers' ~ peace2U
"The Secret of Oz"
No worries, people can be pretty frustrating, without a doubt. Most Christians, aren't actually Christian. It's hard to take what passes for religion as actual spirituality these days, for me anyway, sounds like you've run into a similar problem. Most "christians" today would consider actual "just after Christ died" Christians to be anarchists and enemies. The gnostics were/are interesting to me, always have been. I'm particularly sympathetic to the Cathar (hence the reference) and feel that the notions they entertained have been given nothing approaching their due. 'tudes, well, hey, we all have bad days, ya' know? :) Cheers!
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
They were on a depopulation mission to extinct God's creation of the human race as if it were a mistake, as I recall. What's to admire?
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
They took the message of not being beholden to material earth, to heart. Most Christians just after Christ were fully disconnected from "the empire" and not wont to set up their own kingdom, wanting instead to experience that after life. The material world meant nothing. We're not supposed to care that much about the trappings of life, earth, except to give charity. Where are we now, one wonders? The Cathars had sex, btw. It was only the prefects (don't recall the latin) that eschewed all earthly bonds, the "believers/followers" had kids and homes.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
We're still on the planet God created for us and not extinct, no thanks to them. Yes, some had children or there wouldn't have been any Cathars except by conversion but where did you read that only the prefects eschewed all earthly bonds? Sounds like an overly romanticized source to me.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Prefects were only 1% of the population of them. If 99% are screwing to the hilt, it's not rocket science to see why they lasted for centuries. Think of prefects as "perfect emulations" or, if you will, "saints". They don't happen often.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
You are the first source I've read that claims there was only a minute percentage of Cathars in a priestly class who were committed to the birth control/depopulation agenda. Do you have any references I can check, SOL? Btw, these Cathars are linked often to Templars and hints of vengeance in the works. As this topic is about "Satan's Money", let's refer to Chapter 19, page 134 of the Templarish book "Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco here: books.google.com/ He makes a miscalculation there -- maybe intentional, maybe not -- by adding 666 to the date 1344 and gives the sum as the year 2000 but it is actually 2010. A bit of news that went under the radar earlier this year is that the Foucault's Pendulum display at a Paris museum fell down and is in disrepair. Coincidence? Maybe not.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Wikipedia pops up as the first source: Then: Next, http://www.cathar.info/1201_beliefs.htm Then, same site different page(http://www.cathar.info/120101_beliefs.htm): Same site, different page (http://www.cathar.info/120102_implications.htm) This was from a casual one shot search, first page of results from Google. They were gnostics, and as I understand it (I don't practice it, btw, it's not my cup of tea), anything that binds you to the earth was bad. Reincarnation was believed in, so if you screwed, you probably were helping the circle of reincarnation. And, again, it was really only the Parfaits/prefects who actually didn't have sex, the regular Joe Sixpack of the movement screwed with impunity and had kids, ergo, the continuation of the movement. Additionally, it was an evangelical type movement, it wasn't some form of "you're born into it" thing, if you didn't have kids, you could convert your neighbors, same effects of continuation of the religion continue. I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just telling you what I vaguely recall learning about the Cathars (and some bits of what I know about Gnostics). Knowing something, does not mean one believes in it, it just means you have knowledge of what you've learned. Cheers.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
Cheers. The Catharist system was a simultaneous attack on the Catholic Church and the then existing State. [my note: rather like the Anarchists of their time] The Church was directly assailed in its doctrine and hierarchy. The denial of the value of oaths, and the suppression, at least in theory, of the right to punish, undermined the basis of the Christian State. But the worst danger was that the triumph of the heretical principles meant the extinction of the human race. This annihilation was the direct consequence of the Catharist doctrine, that all intercourse between the sexes ought to be avoided and that suicide or the Endura, under certain circumstances, is not only lawful but commendable. The assertion of some writers, like Charles Molinier, that Catholic and Catharist teaching respecting marriage are identical, is an erroneous interpretation of Catholic doctrine and practice. Among Catholics, the priest is forbidden to marry, but the faithful can merit eternal happiness in the married state. For the Cathari, no salvation was possible without previous renunciation of marriage. ________ I've heard they were pro-Abortion as a birth control method so, while they reportedly strived to be strict ascetics, I wouldn't equate that with "holy". They were aka Popelicans, mentioned as being in cahoots with Templarish vengeance-obsessed plotters in Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco cited in my previous post. Thank you for sharing so much of your research. Sounds like they could also be called Marrano's, more on the Judaic side than Christian -- practicing Kosher dietary rules, in addition to the Kol Nidre-type devaluing of oaths mentioned at my encyclopedia source. I agree with your quoted closing statement and Cheers to you too but I have to say that I still think you're somewhat bedazzled by their overly romanticizing chroniclers.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
The ancient Christians (not Cathars) were for all intents and purposes anarchists of the "peaceful" kind. That's one of the reasons Constantine was working so diligently to incorporate them back into the folds of Roman society, they were simply drifting out, not serving in the legions, not paying taxes and living on the outskirts of society as small independent colonies essentially "doing good for one another" and not participating in Roman life. It wasn't that they were trying to destroy the state, they simply took the notion that one shouldn't be concerned with earthly ties and instead work to do good and revere the Lord. That didn't play well in a welfare state like Rome, where participation was expected (e.g. - pay your taxes, serve, be chained to your fellow man though the mechanisms of the state). In short, in that regard at least, the Cathars were no different than ancient Christians (meaning, Christians before the "official establishment" of a monolithic church, the ones around who probably met Jesus and shook his hand in real life). Christian state? LOL Oaths, again, ancient Christians shared that trait as well, as I understand it. And again, it was Constantines newly reformed "Christianity", that fit so well into the Statist role, that come to dominate and literally wiped out the ancient Christians over time. Movements like the Cathar and other sects were the straggling (and sometimes errant, granted) remains of what was once original ancient Christianity. Constantine did a real disservice to the message of Jesus if you ask me. The last thing a Christian should be worried about is the earthly state, instead he should (at least as I understand it) be working on his salvation and rejecting the material trappings of the world that prevent him from focusing on that goal and from helping others. Only for the priestly class (the Prefects/Perfects). Everybody else was out making babies, like bunny rabbits. People did do that, but as I understand it, it was during the time when death was clear, inevitable and close to begin with. IOW, the guy on his death bed, who refused a last meal and then died twenty minutes later. Hardly a suicide in that case. More of a "what's the point?". And, it's interesting to note that Catholics don't have a problem with suicide, assuming that suicide is on the field of battle in a "Just War". If you rush in, knowing certain death is the payment, and jump on a grenade to save others, you've intentionally killed yourself. No sophistry can change that fact, and as I understand it, suicide is wrong regardless of why one did it, so assigning it as "well, he saved others lives to do so" doesn't matter. That's a bit of a twist. The Credentes were perfectly allowed to marry, and still follow the tenants of the Cathar. Since they believed in some kind of reincarnation, the theory was that eventually over several lives, one would reach the state of the actual real and only celibates, the Prefects. You were not "denied" salvation, you simply had to keep being reborn over time until your soul purified from the material to the fully spiritual. And as I understand, this was more or less an inevitability once you accepted their teachings. Kind of like the Catholic version of Limbo (except involving reincarnation instead of the same level of suffering as hell with salvation at the end). I've not heard that at all. They were pro birth control, such as it was, but only for people at a certain point of acceptance in their teachings. That meaning things like the menstrual cycle, or non-vaginal intercourse (both of which, if I'm not mistaken, are also hallmarks of Catholic birth control?). In any event, interesting discussion.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
In short, in that regard at least, the Cathars were no different than ancient Christians (meaning, Christians before the "official establishment" of a monolithic church, the ones around who probably met Jesus and shook his hand in real life). In that regard, they may have resembled early Christians -- and so might anarchists of the supposed "peaceful" kind of pagan faiths -- but their other doctrines and practices are not as similar. In fact, some that have been under discussion here are quite contradictory to Christianity, even early Christianity. Christendom, Holy Roman Empire -- like that. That depends on what the oath is and how it was pledged, I think. The teachings of Jesus don't prohibit oaths that are acceded to by a simple "yes" or "I do". Ex: marriage vows, for instance. Invoking that which is God's as an extra- credibility for oneself was what He instructed against in the Gospels. People should live their lives with honor evident enough in their works that their "yes" to an oath could be trusted without fail by deception or willful disregard. If Christians thought they were instructed to care nothing for the material trappings of this world, they would not be of much help to those in need nor characteristically motivated to help others beyond prayer and spiritual instruction. Even the monastic who take vows of poverty and seclusion to devote as much of their time and attention to God full-time as possible will try to do what they can for the worldly needs of others as well as the spiritual. Jesus understood that not everyone is able to live so ascetically and for them he endorsed marriage with families. Depopulation of the earth and birth control, as if God's creation of humans was viewed as a mistake at some accepted level of the hierarchy, or imposing austerity on the children of marriages as the best way for them to live wasn't any part of Christ's code that I know of. If the Cathars were as divorced from worldly concerns as you depict them, anarchism against the state -- whether secular or theological -- shouldn't have been something that manifested as stereotypical of them and as threatening to God's intent as well as the states of Christendom. People did do that, but as I understand it, it was during the time when death was clear, inevitable and close to begin with. IOW, the guy on his death bed, who refused a last meal and then died twenty minutes later. Hardly a suicide in that case. More of a "what's the point?". And, it's interesting to note that Catholics don't have a problem with suicide, assuming that suicide is on the field of battle in a "Just War". If you rush in, knowing certain death is the payment, and jump on a grenade to save others, you've intentionally killed yourself. No sophistry can change that fact, and as I understand it, suicide is wrong regardless of why one did it, so assigning it as "well, he saved others lives to do so" doesn't matter. Greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for others, is the teaching. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to die to have put their lives on the line so for the protection of others. Even Jesus looked for intervention from God as He went through the ordeal of trial and crucifixion. Jumping on a grenade doesn't always mean certain death. It means someone is willing to go into harm's way, even with little chance of survival or of not being severely injured, so that others might live and not suffer. Maybe there'll be a miracle and the grenade won't go off or they can manage to throw it out of the way some before it goes off. Not exactly suicidal, just very slim odds. That's another example of non-Christian doctrine and anarchy. Reincarnation is symbolized by the swastika-like letter Aleph in Judaism but reincarnation is not a tenet of Christianity -- wasn't even in the earlier stages, afaik. If the Cathari were believers in reincarnation into the first millennium, I don't know for sure where they got that idea but I'm certain it wasn't the Gospels or the long established Christian Church. Purgatory, which is nothing about reincarnation back into this world but spiritual penance and transcendence. You: I've not heard that at all. They were pro birth control, such as it was, but only for people at a certain point of acceptance in their teachings. That meaning things like the menstrual cycle, or non-vaginal intercourse (both of which, if I'm not mistaken, are also hallmarks of Catholic birth control?) In any event, interesting discussion. Abstinence, temporary or permanent, is the only permissible Catholic birth control, afaik. Catholics are probably transgressing but the object of abstinence is not supposed to be to devalue human life. Some might be under the Cathar-like influence of "Greens" who preach to the world that humans are like a blight on the globe and should be downsized in various ways to a minimum so that there will be more room for "Greenies". I don't know for sure but thanks for the interesting conversation. Meant to get back here sooner but didn't want to just slapdash a reply when short on time.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I dislike the phrase 'agree to disagree', but, well, seems we're at it. On a higher note, I bet we agree 100% on everything regarding liberty. Cheers mate. SoL
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
I was thinking more in the high 90 percentile range but would still count either estimate as great news. :)
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Has Bill listened to this?
Sorry, cannot listen here.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
you can right click and save it for when you can
Too much trouble. I'm in the library.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Modify to "...from your organized, mega-church, or denomination, followers."
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
Somehow, I don't want to hook-up with anyone called the Parfaits. Not that their theology is so wrong, but their moniker is just too sissy.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#2. To: TommyTheMadArtist, Jethro Tull (#0)
#3. To: All (#2)
#4. To: Amandil (#1)
#5. To: SonOfLiberty (#4)
Cathar?
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#6. To: Itistoolate (#3)
WHO OWNS THE US MEDIA?
#7. To: RickyJ (#6)
#8. To: Amandil (#5)
#9. To: SonOfLiberty (#8)
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#10. To: Amandil, SonOfLiberty (#9)
#11. To: Amandil (#9)
(Edited)
#12. To: SonOfLiberty (#11)
I'm particularly sympathetic to the Cathar (hence the reference) and feel that the notions they entertained have been given nothing approaching their due.
#13. To: GreyLmist (#12)
#14. To: SonOfLiberty (#13)
The material world meant nothing. We're not supposed to care that much about the trappings of life, earth, except to give charity. Where are we now, one wonders?
The Cathars had sex, btw. It was only the prefects (don't recall the latin) that eschewed all earthly bonds, the "believers/followers" had kids and homes.
#15. To: GreyLmist (#14)
but where did you read that only the prefects eschewed all earthly bonds? Sounds like an overly romanticized source to me.
#16. To: SonOfLiberty (#15)
(Edited)
#17. To: GreyLmist (#16)
You are the first source I've read that claims there was only a minute percentage of Cathars in a priestly class who were committed to the birth control/depopulation agenda. Do you have any references I can check, SOL?
Cathar society was divided into two general categories, the Perfecti (Perfects, Parfaits) and the Credentes (Believers). The Perfecti formed the core of the movement, though the actual number of Perfecti in Cathar society was always relatively small, numbering perhaps a few thousand at any one time...
While the Perfecti pledged themselves to ascetic lives of simplicity, frugality and purity, Cathar credentes (believers) were not expected to adopt the same stringent lifestyle. They were, however, expected to refrain from eating meat and dairy products, from killing and from swearing oaths. Catharism was above all a populist religion and the numbers of those who considered themselves "believers" in the late 12th century included a sizeable portion of the population of Languedoc, counting among them many noble families and courts. These individuals often drank, ate meat, and led relatively normal lives within medieval society—in contrast to the Perfecti, whom they honoured as exemplars. Though unable to embrace the life of chastity, the credentes looked toward an eventual time when this would be their calling and path.
Like the earliest Christians, the Cathars recognised no priesthood. They did however distinguish between ordinary believers (Credentes) and a smaller, inner circle of leaders initiated in secret knowledge, known at the time as boni homines, Bonneshommes or "Goodmen" , now generally refered to as the Elect or as Parfaits...
Of themselves they say: "We are the poor of Christ, who have no fixed abode and flee from city to city like sheep amidst wolves, are persecuted as were the apostles and the martyrs, despite the fact that we lead a most strict and holy life, persevering day and night in fasts and abstinence, in prayers, and in labour from which we seek only the necessities of life. We undergo this because we are not of this world.
(1) Procreative sex was bad, since conception would result in another soul being trapped. For this reason, normal sex between man and wife was as bad as any other procreative sex. Marriage was worthless, while contraception was regarded with approval
#18. To: SonOfLiberty (#17)
I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just telling you what I vaguely recall learning about the Cathars (and some bits of what I know about Gnostics). Knowing something, does not mean one believes in it, it just means you have knowledge of what you've learned.
#19. To: GreyLmist (#18)
The Catharist system was a simultaneous attack on the Catholic Church and the then existing State. [my note: rather like the Anarchists of their time]
The denial of the value of oaths, and the suppression, at least in theory, of the right to punish, undermined the basis of the Christian State.
This annihilation was the direct consequence of the Catharist doctrine, that all intercourse between the sexes ought to be avoided
and that suicide or the Endura, under certain circumstances, is not only lawful but commendable
For the Cathari, no salvation was possible without previous renunciation of marriage.
I've heard they were pro-Abortion as a birth control method so, while they reportedly strived to be strict ascetics, I wouldn't equate that with "holy".
#20. To: SonOfLiberty (#19)
(Edited)
The ancient Christians (not Cathars) were for all intents and purposes anarchists of the "peaceful" kind. That's one of the reasons Constantine was working so diligently to incorporate them back into the folds of Roman society, they were simply drifting out, not serving in the legions, not paying taxes and living on the outskirts of society as small independent colonies essentially "doing good for one another" and not participating in Roman life. It wasn't that they were trying to destroy the state, they simply took the notion that one shouldn't be concerned with earthly ties and instead work to do good and revere the Lord. That didn't play well in a welfare state like Rome, where participation was expected (e.g. - pay your taxes, serve, be chained to your fellow man though the mechanisms of the state).
Christian state? LOL
Oaths, again, ancient Christians shared that trait as well, as I understand it.
And again, it was Constantines newly reformed "Christianity", that fit so well into the Statist role, that come to dominate and literally wiped out the ancient Christians over time. Movements like the Cathar and other sects were the straggling (and sometimes errant, granted) remains of what was once original ancient Christianity. Constantine did a real disservice to the message of Jesus if you ask me. The last thing a Christian should be worried about is the earthly state, instead he should (at least as I understand it) be working on his salvation and rejecting the material trappings of the world that prevent him from focusing on that goal and from helping others.
suicide or the Endura, under certain circumstances, is not only lawful but commendable
The Credentes were perfectly allowed to marry, and still follow the tenants of the Cathar. Since they believed in some kind of reincarnation, the theory was that eventually over several lives, one would reach the state of the actual real and only celibates, the Prefects. You were not "denied" salvation, you simply had to keep being reborn over time until your soul purified from the material to the fully spiritual. And as I understand, this was more or less an inevitability once you accepted their teachings.
Kind of like the Catholic version of Limbo (except involving reincarnation instead of the same level of suffering as hell with salvation at the end).
Me: I've heard they were pro-Abortion as a birth control method so, while they reportedly strived to be strict ascetics, I wouldn't equate that with "holy".
#21. To: GreyLmist (#20)
#22. To: SonOfLiberty (#21)
On a higher note, I bet we agree 100% on everything regarding liberty.
#23. To: Christine, Freedom William (#2)
#24. To: Itistoolate (#0)
#25. To: BTP Holdings (#24)
#26. To: Itistoolate (#25)
you can right click and save it for when you can
#27. To: christine, All (#0)
#28. To: Amandil (#9)
"Dear Jesus, please protect me from your followers'
#29. To: SonOfLiberty, 4 (#17)
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