4um: PATRIOT ACT EXTENSION FAILS

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Title: PATRIOT ACT EXTENSION FAILS
Source: Campaign for Liberty
URL Source: http://AbMail
Published: Feb 8, 2011
Author: C4L
Post Date: 2011-02-08 20:32:58 by abraxas
Keywords: None
Views: 2386
Comments: 90

PATRIOT ACT EXTENSION FAILS
Thanks to your dedicated efforts, the motion to suspend the rules and pass the extension of three PATRIOT Act provisions failed tonight in the House of Representatives! Since they were attempting to pass it on the suspension calendar, the vote required two thirds (290 members) of the House to agree to it.
The vote came down to the wire, and you could hear the arms breaking on Capitol Hill out here in Springfield, VA.
By a vote of 277-148, the House failed to pass the extension - click here for the roll call vote to see how your representative voted!
Thanks again for all you've done, but remember, we can't let up pressure now. This won't be the last we've heard of the PATRIOT Act renewal in the House.
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#51. To: GreyLmist (#49)
That skullduggery of lumping bills together should be abolished.

ALL things FEDERAL should be abolished - terminated !
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " Thomas Jefferson
noone222 posted on 2011-02-09 4:39:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: GreyLmist, randge, flintlock, rotara, eric stratton, original_intent, itistoolate, farmfriend, jethro tull, christine, wudidiz, twentytwelve, formerlurker, x-15, paddlefeet, freepatriot32, lod (#49)
Here are a few posts with details sorting through who did what.

26 Repubs who supported liberty & rejected the Patriot Act: Who are they?
http://www.examiner.com/la-county-libertarian-in-los-angeles/26-repubs- who-supported-liberty-voted-no-on-the-patriot-act-who-are-they
Excerpt: Now on to the eighteen people who voted No on the Patriot Act in 2011 who were not on the 'NO' LIST in 2010. Ten of them were already in office, and switched their votes to support liberty. Eight others took office for the first time this year. Out of the following eighteen people, only eight are serving their very first term in Congress. This means that out of 87 newly elected Republican Congressman, only eight of those voted NO on the Patriot Act. (13 new Republican Senators took office last mont for their first term).

44/52 'Tea Party Caucus' members voted to renew Patriot Act
http://www.examiner.com/la- county-libertarian-in-los-angeles/44-tea-party-caucus-members-voted-to-renew- patriot-act

'House out of order' after first blockage of Patriot Act in ten years
http://www.examiner.com/la- county-libertarian-in-los-angeles/gop-house-blocks-extension-of-patriot-act

Ron Paul launches LibertyPac.com in prep for possible 2012 bid
http://www.examiner.com/la-county-libertarian-in-los-angeles/ron-paul- launches-libertypac-com-prep-for-possible-2012-presidential-bid
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2011-02-09 5:14:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: All, patrickhenry, noone222, happy2bme4um (#52)
ping to post #52
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2011-02-09 5:19:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: noone222 (#51)
ALL things FEDERAL should be abolished - terminated !

And then what? Anarchy? I agree there needs to be some massive rollbacks. You might like this new book by Tom Woods:

Who’s Afraid of a Free Society?
by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
Today is the release date for my new book, Rollback : Repealing Big Government Before the Coming Fiscal Collapse. It could just as easily have been called Everything Needs to Be Abolished, and Here’s Why.
[sic]
let’s suppose that the federal government has in fact been an enemy of the people’s welfare, and that the progress in our living standards has occurred quite in spite of its efforts. It pits individuals, firms, industries, regions, races, and age groups against each other in a zero-sum game of mutual plunder. It takes credit for improvements in material conditions that we in fact owe to the private sector, while refusing to accept responsibility for the countless failures and social ills to which its own programs have given rise. Rather than bringing about the "public good," whatever that means, it governs us through a series of fiefdoms seeking bigger budgets and more power. Despite the veneer of public-interest rhetoric by which it camouflages its real nature, it is a mere parasite on productive activity and a net minus in the story of human welfare.
Now if this is a more accurate depiction of the federal government, we are likely to have a different view of the consequences of the coming fiscal collapse. So an institution that has seized our wealth, held back the rise in our standard of living, and deceived schoolchildren into honoring it as the source of all progress, will have to be cut back? What’s the catch? This is no calamity to be deplored. It is an opportunity to be seized. The primary purpose of the book, therefore, is to demonstrate that we would not only survive but even flourish in the absence of countless institutions we are routinely told we could not live without.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-09 6:07:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: Artisan (#52)
Thanks for the timely updates!! I gotta leave the house early this morning, but when I get back, I will read all!
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.
randge posted on 2011-02-09 6:32:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#56. To: Artisan (#52)
Here are a few posts with details sorting through who did what.

Thanks. I especially appreciate the research in these two links:
26 Repubs who supported liberty & rejected the Patriot Act: Who are they?
44/52 'Tea Party Caucus' members voted to renew Patriot Act: Out of the 87 new Republican Congressman and 13 new GOP Senators who were sworn into their first terms last month, it is not known how many consider themselves tea partiers, since there is no updated list.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-09 6:41:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#57. To: All, (#54)
And then what? Anarchy?

State and County Government are more than sufficient. And, if they became dictatorial, shut them off too.
Look, I wouldn't call it anarchy ... I'd call it UNarchy. What we have today is the most sophisticated and intrusive techno-dictatorship to have ever existed on planet earth. Personally, I don't like it one bit and am quite willing to go it alone or with a group of my choosing.
To those people that think of themselves as self sufficient, independent, self- starters, self-motivated, whatever best fits your own description of yourselves, to sit back and watch these anti-freedom ghouls steal every last crumb, to squeeze out every last drop of blood, to shit all over freedom as well as murder all over the world, I say prove it.
I much prefer anarchy to this highly organized blitzkrieg rolling out from D.C.
If it's FEDERAL it's fucked. Get it ? There isn't anything good or even well intended oozing out of that cess pit, so stop fucking financing it if you have an ounce of backbone or intestinal fortitude.
Otherwise you are a traitor to yourself and everyone else that's ill effected through your most generous contributions to the FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM / IRS / War Mongering, fucking satan. Got it yet ??? Talk is cheap. Freedom has a price attached to it.
Look in the fucking mirror and catch a glimpse of the REAL ENEMY of FREEDOM. Yes ! It's you !!! Followers of the Great Satan in D.C. [Bend down and lick the boot of your master].
April 15th "IS" April FOOL's DAY !
Don't hate me for stating the truth.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " Thomas Jefferson
noone222 posted on 2011-02-09 6:55:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#58. To: Artisan, 4 (#52)
Thanks for the terrific, impartial research Artisan. For now it's clear the "Tea Party" splits heavily on issues of war and this Act. Most can't be counted on to help extract us from foreign entanglements or draconian domestic law. OTOH, the eight more libertarian tea party members who supplied the necessary votes to (for now) put a stake in the heart of parts of this Patriot Act mess deserve our thanks. It's a victory, make no mistake about it. I never thought all the new folk would be like us on 4um. We are a very small group of America Firsters and to think change will come immediately after one voting cycle is unrealistic. To those who want to do something I suggest calling these Reps and thanking them for a start. From there, we need to continue to weed out the good from the bad come election time. We've been given a start from a core of people who voted with Ron Paul and against big government. If one looks at the people (Obama, establishment Rs) who wanted the extension, yesterday's rejection is a solid start. Thanks are in order to those who helped put these eight votes in the House. Their vote did matter.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-02-09 8:22:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#59. To: Jethro Tull (#58)
the eight more libertarian tea party members who supplied the necessary votes to (for now) put a stake in the heart of parts of this Patriot Act mess deserve our thanks. It's a victory, make no mistake about it. I never thought all the new folk would be like us on 4um. We are a very small group of America Firsters and to think change will come immediately after one voting cycle is unrealistic.

That's wisdom, a rare commodity around here.
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
Flintlock posted on 2011-02-09 9:09:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#60. To: Artisan (#52)
Thanks for the info
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
Flintlock posted on 2011-02-09 9:10:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#61. To: GreyLmist, noone222 (#54)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-02-09 11:36:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#62. To: GreyLmist (#54)
Despite the veneer of public-interest rhetoric by which it camouflages its real nature, it is a mere parasite on productive activity and a net minus in the story of human welfare.

Therein lies the key point. Most of the government chest puffery is nothing more than the public relations of a Used Car Salesman asserting that the lemon du jour really was owned by a little old lady from Pasadena who only drove it to church on Sundays. (Of course that was 3 owners and 150,000 very hard miles ago, but what the hey?)
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-02-09 12:37:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#63. To: Eric Stratton, GreyLmist, noone222 (#61)
I don't suppose that this book is available in the pubic libraries.

Been into the "happy weed" so early in the morning?
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-02-09 12:39:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#64. To: Original_Intent (#63)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-02-09 12:41:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#65. To: abraxas (#0)
That can only be good.
Solutions for Ireland. Say NO to the IMF/World bank. Default on our debt. Print our own debt free currency. Nationalise the trillion euros worth of gas and oil off our west coast. Take back our fishing (200 billion worth). Get our farmers growing again. Done deal if our politicians had the backbone. ~ Jim Corr
irishthatcherite posted on 2011-02-09 12:44:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#66. To: Jethro Tull (#40)
44 - House votes to proceed on Patriot Act extension
Posted at 4:05 PM ET, 02/10/2011 House votes to proceed on Patriot Act extension By Felicia Sonmez
The House on Thursday voted to proceed on a measure that would extend key provisions of the Patriot Act counter-terrorism surveillance law, two days after the proposal came up short in a Republican-led effort to approve it under fast-track rules.
The House voted 248-to-176 to proceed on the measure, with nine lawmakers not voting. Only four Republicans voted on Thursday against proceeding, in contrast to the 26 who opposed the bill on Tuesday night.
The four Republicans voting "no" on Thursday were Reps. Ron Paul (Texas), Chris Gibson (N.Y.), Raul Labrador (Idaho) and Tom McClintock (Calif.). All four had opposed the measure on Tuesday. Meanwhile, 172 Democrats voted against proceeding Thursday, up from the 148 who voted "no" on Tuesday.
The House is expected to easily pass the measure when it comes up for a final vote, likely early next week. Then it will get sent on to the Senate, where lawmakers are debating three separate proposed timelines.
The Patriot Act provisions are set to expire on Feb. 28 if Congress does not act to extend them.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2011-02-10 22:40:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#67. To: Artisan (#2)
Final vote tally on H.R. 514 was 277 yea 148 nay.
Republicans voted 210 yes and 26 no. Democrats voted 67 yes and 122 no.

I think we can see just whom is in favor of liberty in the Congress!
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2011-02-12 12:21:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#68. To: Jethro Tull, All (#58)
To those who want to do something I suggest calling these Reps and thanking them for a start.

I think we should recall those Reps and the others that joined them in the next vote-pass. Rather than recall from D.C. all the rogues who extended the so- called "PATRIOT Act", recall from that District of Criminals all those who voted to uphold the Constitution and reseat them in a Constitutional Congress. We can maybe all pitch in towards their salaries until we can set up a different payroll method for them.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 1:46:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#69. To: Eric Stratton (#61)
I don't suppose that this book is available in the pubic libraries. LOL

Not yet. Maybe someday. Sounds like it would be a wise investment to buy it for our own collections if we can and also donate copies to the public libraries roundabout ASAP.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 2:03:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#70. To: Original_Intent (#62) (Edited)
Most of the government chest puffery is nothing more than the public relations of a Used Car Salesman asserting that the lemon du jour really was owned by a little old lady from Pasadena only drove it to church on Sundays. (Of course that was 3 owners and 150,000 very hard miles ago, but what the hey?)

But parked in her rickety old garage
Is a brand new shiny red Super-Stock Dodge -- The Beach Boys ;)
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 2:43:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#71. To: noone222 (#57)
I much prefer anarchy to this highly organized blitzkrieg rolling out from D.C.

A highly organized blitzkrieg of Anarchy is precisely what's been rolling out from D.C. for far too long -- Anarchy against the Constitution.

If it's FEDERAL it's fucked. Get it ? There isn't anything good or even well intended oozing out of that cess pit, so stop fucking financing it if you have an ounce of backbone or intestinal fortitude.
Otherwise you are a traitor to yourself and everyone else that's ill effected through your most generous contributions to the FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM / IRS / War Mongering, fucking satan. Got it yet ??? Talk is cheap. Freedom has a price attached to it.
Look in the fucking mirror and catch a glimpse of the REAL ENEMY of FREEDOM. Yes ! It's you !!! Followers of the Great Satan in D.C. [Bend down and lick the boot of your master].
April 15th "IS" April FOOL's DAY !

I'm not seeing any guidance there on what you think needs to be done for people, employed or not, to be able to stop the financing of that hellionry.

Don't hate me for stating the truth.

I don't hate you for stating what you believe is the truth. Don't hate me for reminding you that you took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not replace it with more Anarchy.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 3:18:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#72. To: GreyLmist (#70)
But parked in her rickety old garage Is a brand new shiny red Super-Stock Dodge -- The Beach Boys ;)

Which reminds me of the old blue hair couple who used to drive by my High School - in their Hemi-Cuda.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-02-16 3:20:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#73. To: Original_Intent (#72)
Which reminds me of the old blue hair couple who used to drive by my High School - in their Hemi-Cuda.

Coolness. :)
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 3:32:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#74. To: GreyLmist (#71)
I'm not seeing any guidance there on what you think needs to be done for people, employed or not, to be able to stop the financing of that hellionry.

To stop financing the destruction of our country we must all say no together. If and when we do that we will end it.
Don't hate me for reminding you that you took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not replace it with more Anarchy.
When I was an 18 year old kid and still believed in our country I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution from "all" enemies both foreign and domestic. At the time I took the oath I was informed that until I left the military I had forfeited the "rights" protected by it. (All of this was long before "w" said the CON- sti-stupid was just a GD piece of paper).
I'm much older and far more realistic today. I do not "swear" oaths, nor do I feel compelled by the one taken as a part of my enlistment in the military. I personally consider AMERICAN TAXPAYERS the enemy of humanity.
Further, that oath, in my mind, was fulfilled the day my obligations to the military were satisfied and wasn't a perpetual commitment to an abstract concept requiring me to support unquestioned murder. And besides that, the U.S. Govt never upheld their end of the deal nor did the U.S. Govt ever intend to keep it.
These abstract pledges of allegiance or oaths to the CONstitution will never make murder or international genocide a righteous activity regardless of the "patriotic" spin." These things are childish falsehoods developed by evil people to convince us to murder each other.
The "killing machine" that we call government creates all of these abstract obligations and endless patriot promises to fill the empty heads of our youth (and borderline mentally retarded idiots) like the "sugar plums" that dance there for "childen" at Christmas time, which then justifies their murderous activity. Fucking ridiculous.
What I mean to say is that these oaths obligating 18 year old children to a tyrant or tyrannical government are pure bullshit and those taking them are what the "bull-shits" ... ignorant excrement.
Americans are accomplices to genocide and cannot hide behind bullshit excuses when justice does her thing. We will reap the whirlwind we have sewn.
America has allowed NAFTA and GATT, treasonous acts against their own interests, to stand for decades. This has destroyed many first time employment opportunities for our youth (and others) causing them to seek military positions as an alternative employment in order to have and support their families. We've effectually made them mercenaries and death merchants.
Call it what you will, but every act causes an equal and opposite reaction. Justice or karma will demand payment of us.
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." - Essay in the Public Advertiser, 1749 - Samuel Adams
noone222 posted on 2011-02-16 6:02:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#75. To: GreyLmist (#69)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-02-16 8:06:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#76. To: noone222 (#74)
I don't believe in "karma", nor the cliche that there is an equal and opposite reaction to every act, nor collective punishment as "Justice". I'd rather not have to see people such as yourself as allies against the destruction of our country only to the point where I would see Victory in a re-alignment with our Constitutional form of government, then as enemies of it thereafter prolonging conflict and the agenda to destroy our Republic. Of course the Constitution is just a piece of paper to those who have no respect for it like Bush. Doesn't make that so for those of us who do respect it, so why believe those like him and agree to throw your lot in with the enemies of it? Even if they outnumber us and have more arms, they don't really represent America. I'm thinking we should do more practical things than "Just say No" in unison -- like building our own economy, payment system, and credit unions to help people to opt out of the imposters' schematics. I think you're a Christian so I hope these verses will help you to better distinguish between Constitutionalists and alien system (s) invasion forces:
Mark 8:23-35
23 He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. When he had spit on the man’s eyes and put his hands on him, Jesus asked, “Do you see anything?”
24 He looked up and said, “I see people; they look like trees walking around.”
25 Once more Jesus put his hands on the man’s eyes. Then his eyes were opened, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 19:33:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#77. To: Eric Stratton (#75)
they'd probably call HOSE if anyone brought that book to the pubic libary.

Make an anonymous donation. :)

I'm getting ready to order it.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 19:43:12 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#78. To: GreyLmist (#77)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-02-16 21:54:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#79. To: Eric Stratton (#78)
Done!
Rubbing my hands anticipating delivery.
: D

Great! I hope you'll give us some periodic bookreports here as you move through the chapters. :)
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 22:05:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#80. To: GreyLmist (#79)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-02-16 22:13:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#81. To: Eric Stratton (#80)
Remind me.

Ok. Making a mental note to do that.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-16 22:21:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#82. To: noone222 (#74)
Call it what you will,

The ballot box and voting is the greatest control of the masses ever envisioned.

Cynicom posted on 2011-02-16 22:32:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#83. To: GreyLmist (#76) (Edited)
I'd rather not have to see people such as yourself as allies against the destruction of our country only to the point where I would see Victory in a re-alignment with our Constitutional form of government, then as enemies of it thereafter prolonging conflict and the agenda to destroy our Republic. Of course the Constitution is just a piece of paper to those who have no respect for it like Bush. Doesn't make that so for those of us who do respect it, so why believe those like him and agree to throw your lot in with the enemies of it?

The Constitution is ignored by the politicians because it's ignored by the people - you included. The reason I say this is because you likely justify your use of unconstitutional programs such as Socialist Security or participate in programs of some type that have no constitutional support.
The Constitution doesn't exist at all from a practical application viewpoint. (Judges state this fact daily in courtrooms all over Amerika). Most of the people that continue to beg the FEDS for "change" ... aren't even aware of their heavy addiction to the FED. This group challenging the FED for "change" are not only Obama supporters, the Tea Partiers are equally delusional.
Looking at pictures of Tea Party gatherings is almost like watching an AARP flick. Are these folks accepting Government benefits ? If so, they are rationalizing their participation and criticizing others for the same conduct.
If you are still a card carrying SOCIALIST using an SSN for any purpose then your respect for the Constitution is truly limited to whenever it's advantageous to you.
The FEDERAL SYSTEM itself is UN-constitutional. The Constitution demands lawful money, that being Gold and Silver coin (backed currency) - the FEDERAL SYSTEM demands fiat currency and commercial credit. While you'd like to think that you're a constitutionalist, you're not.
EDIT: The point is that many, many speak about the Constitution while hardly any qualify for it. The many "trespasses against the Constitution that we're witnessing are actually the legal method of governance in the FEDERAL SYSTEM, the Constitution doesn't exist in the FEDERAL SYSTEM ... the Constitution can only exist where it's honored not where it's alluded to or spoken about. And, in order for the Constitution to have dominion the monetary system cannot be corrupted, but must operate constitutionally with lawful constitutional money. NO EXCEPTIONS.
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." - Essay in the Public Advertiser, 1749 - Samuel Adams
noone222 posted on 2011-02-17 6:42:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#84. To: Cynicom (#82)
The ballot box and voting is the greatest control of the masses ever envisioned.

Perfect example of "thinking INSIDE the BOX" = the equivalent of INsanity. Just keep doing what has never worked !!!!!
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." - Essay in the Public Advertiser, 1749 - Samuel Adams
noone222 posted on 2011-02-18 3:29:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#85. To: noone222 (#83)
If you can see somewhere in the Constitution that the Federal government has to use gold and silver backed currency only, show me where exactly. The words "gold" and "silver" only appear once each and only regarding the States, not the Federal government. You still don't seem to be seeing the difference between our Constitutional Federal system and the sham system that has no real legitimacy or authority to do anything here or abroad, coercively or not. And I'm still not seeing what it is that you think needs to be done to accomplish liberation from SS and independence from the imposters' system so the "workerbees" and less fortunates will be good enough by your standards to be counted as Constitutionalists. I'm not on SS but citizens who want to work legally don't get much choice about it being taken from them. What should they do? Say, "Just keep all of our money"? I'm not even going to ask if your money and whatever is all unblemished. If you can help from there to promote alternative and competing currency systems, though, I'd appreciate it.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-18 5:30:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#86. To: GreyLmist (#85)
I'm not on SS but citizens who want to work legally don't get much choice about it being taken from them.

That was a slick response - While you may not be "on it" you are "IN IT" up to your eyeballs. Your response appears to be made with a modicum of regret since you attempt to side step the issue (of being a card carrying socialist) or being a socialist pretending to be a Constitutionalist.
Most Americans want their cake and eat it too but it doesn't work that way. No one forces anyone to take advantage of FEDERAL SOCIALIST BENEFITS by joining the Social Security Insurance Program (scheme). It's called the law of reciprocity. Contracts and trusts are formed through actions as well as by written agreements.
There is no law that makes having a Social Security Card or Account a mandate in order to live and work in the United States.
The Constitution states "that no state shall make anything other than gold or silver coin payable for debt" ... do you pay for permits, licenses or fines in silver or gold coin ? Is your State accepting other than Constitutional money ? Why do you think there's yet a Constitutional Government ?
We have no Constitutional Government today because the people have become dumbed down, do not understand laws or money, are lazy, weak and have lost their pride and independence.
I do not have a Social Security Account. I work.
You still don't seem to be seeing the difference between our Constitutional Federal system and the sham system that has no real legitimacy or authority to do anything here or abroad, coercively or not.
I think you may have it backwards. The FEDERAL (reserve bank) GOVT is legally legitimate (and it's the one every Social Security Card carrier is in) but it's definitely not Constitutional. It's a commercial imposter that grants mere privileges for its members, not rights. It operates under the laws of commerce not Constitutional Common-Law. It serves itself not the people.
Your system has crime without a victim. The Constitutional Common Law system only recognizes a crime when there is a victim.
I'm only calling it your system because you finance it as a member through taxation and "CONTRIBUTIONS" to the Socialist Security Scam.
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." - Essay in the Public Advertiser, 1749 - Samuel Adams
noone222 posted on 2011-02-18 12:44:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#87. To: noone222 (#86)
While you may not be "on it" you are "IN IT" up to your eyeballs. Your response appears to be made with a modicum of regret since you attempt to side step the issue (of being a card carrying socialist) or being a socialist pretending to be a Constitutionalist.

4um Social Security is not an “entitlement” program: [Social Security] is NOT an entitlement program nor was it intended to be any form of welfare. The “entitlement” the government speaks of would be more aptly applied to them; they feeling they are entitled to avail themselves of our investments and use that money for whatever they choose to.

There is no law that makes having a Social Security Card or Account a mandate in order to live and work in the United States.

Have you noticed in your area that hospitals, about two decades ago, started pressuring the parents of newborns to fill out SS# forms for their babies before taking them home? I have. Very odd.

The Constitution states "that no state shall make anything other than gold or silver coin payable for debt" ... do you pay for permits, licenses or fines in silver or gold coin ? Is your State accepting other than Constitutional money ?

Please review 4um thread: Clean Money

I do not have a Social Security Account. I work.

Americans can scarcely find jobs here as it is. I don't think the answer is to make it even harder for them to be hired. Still, I'd like to hear how you think they could go your route without being largely unemployed under the current circumstances. Also, I'd like to hear what you think people should do if they find that their "managed" pensions and other investments have been profitable because they were unknowingly sunk into the MIC and Israeli companies and such? Should they cash out and donate all of the ill-gotten profits to charities?
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-20 15:29:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#88. To: GreyLmist (#87)
4um Social Security is not an “entitlement” program: [Social Security] is NOT an entitlement program nor was it intended to be any form of welfare. The “entitlement” the government speaks of would be more aptly applied to them; they feeling they are entitled to avail themselves of our investments and use that money for whatever they choose to.

Have you noticed in your area that hospitals, about two decades ago, started pressuring the parents of newborns to fill out SS# forms for their babies before taking them home? I have. Very odd.

Americans can scarcely find jobs here as it is. I don't think the answer is to make it even harder for them to be hired. Still, I'd like to hear how you think they could go your route without being largely unemployed under the current circumstances. Also, I'd like to hear what you think people should do if they find that their "managed" pensions and other investments have been profitable because they were unknowingly sunk into the MIC and Israeli companies and such? Should they cash out and donate all of the ill-gotten profits to charities?

I agree with you that we have been duped (actually born) into a fraudulent system. We only disagree on the necessary response in order to correct it.
When you speak of them using our money to do things you have it ass backwards ... IT'S THEIR MONEY ... and when we use it they attach an invisible lien to everything (ie., property tax - sales tax - vehicle registrations etc.,) via the STATE.
The solution lies with us choosing to do what is Constitutional because they can't even though they have sworn oaths to uphold the Constitution. The contracts clause in the Constitution forbids them from interfering with our right to contract. So, when we contract into the system that accepts usage of fiat currency and credit (commercial instruments), we leave the jurisdiction of the Constitutional Republic and enter the SOCIALIST DEMOCRACY. This paradigm shift is wicked and a very subtle change that has been incrementally put into place by criminal bankers, politicians and attorneys.
The only peaceful process for recovering our lost liberty is abstinence from usage of their system to whatever degree is possible. Even then there's little chance that the PTB will leave the people to their own choices without a civil war. They usually choose war and chaos as a means to implement changes "that they want" !
I guess what I'm saying is that we must first diagnose the problem correctly. We are in effect living with a brutal spouse that beats us continually and we keep hoping for a change that isn't going to happen unless we divorce.
Have you noticed in your area that hospitals, about two decades ago, started pressuring the parents of newborns to fill out SS# forms for their babies before taking them home? I have. Very odd.
My son recently admitted that he would soon become a dad. We discussed all of the "demands" put upon new parents such as ascribing a SSN to the newborn. I suggested that they not name the child until they get home from the hospital.
That being said, our system is strikingly similar to the feudal system. Under feudal law, the serfs were forced to "PLEDGE a LIEGE" to their noble by having their children kiss his ring at an early age, pledging loyalty and service for life. That's what tatooing your kid with an SSN does too. [Nothing's what it seems is it ?]
Pledge of ALLEGIANCE: (Origin: 1350–1400; Middle English aliegiaunce, equivalent to a- probably a-5 + liege liege + -aunce -ance; compare Middle French ligeance
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." - Essay in the Public Advertiser, 1749 - Samuel Adams
noone222 posted on 2011-02-21 5:48:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#89. To: noone222 (#88)
I disagree that it's their money but glad we've reached some agreement. Just wanted to say that much for now. Will try to get back to this discussion ASAP.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2011-02-21 7:21:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#90. To: GreyLmist (#89)

The instrument says "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE" ... and when you write a check for your INCOME TAX the canceled check will state "pay to the order of any FEDERAL RESERVE BANK BRANCH for obligations of the UNITED STATES.
The Federal Reserve Note was originally used only between banks, not the public.
There's a good book out on this subject titled "THEY OWN IT ALL including you" (by means of toxic currency).
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." - Essay in the Public Advertiser, 1749 - Samuel Adams
noone222 posted on 2011-02-21 7:35:40 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
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