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Title: Ray Bradbury on Getting Rid of School
Source: The Paris Review
URL Source: http://www.theparisreview.org/inter ... of-fiction-no-203-ray-bradbury
Published: Feb 19, 2011
Author: Ray Bradbury
Post Date: 2011-02-19 12:12:49 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 282
Comments: 10

Our education system has gone to hell. It’s my idea from now on to stop spending money educating children who are sixteen years old. We should put all that money down into kindergarten. Young children have to be taught how to read and write. If children went into the first grade knowing how to read and write, we’d be set for the future, wouldn’t we? We must not let them go into the fourth and fifth grades not knowing how to read. So we must put out books with educational pictures, or use comics to teach children how to read. When I was five years old, my aunt gave me a copy of a book of wonderful fairy tales called Once Upon a Time, and the first fairy tale in the book is “Beauty and the Beast.” That one story taught me how to read and write because I looked at the picture of that beautiful beast, but I so desperately wanted to read about him too. By the time I was six years old, I had learned how to read and write.

We should forget about teaching children mathematics. They’re not going to use it ever in their lives. Give them simple arithmetic—one plus one is two, and how to divide, and how to subtract. Those are simple things that can be taught quickly. But no mathematics because they are never going to use it, never in their lives, unless they are going to be scientists, and then they can simply learn it later. My brother, for example, didn’t do well in school, but when he was in his twenties, he needed a job with the Bureau of Power and Light. He got a book about mathematics and electricity and he read it and educated himself and got the job. If you are bright, you will learn how to educate yourself with mathematics if you need it. But the average child never will. So it must be reading and writing. Those are the important things. And by the time children are six, they are completely educated and then they can educate themselves. The library will be the place where they grow up.


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I couldn't agree more with Bradbury.

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#1. To: Turtle (#0)

I couldn't agree more with Bradbury.

Me too!

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2011-02-19   12:27:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Turtle (#0)

I couldn't agree more with Bradbury.

I take it you are mathematically challenged? Bradbury, for all his great writing, is now and always has been a flaming liberal.

Mathematics whether one uses it to make a living or not is valuable knowledge. Mathematics is the language of shape, form, and quantity.

Spherical Trigonometry may seem useless - until you need to understand mapping and orbital mechanics. If you really want to understand Geography you need to understand Trig.

Geometry allows us to define shape and form and put a measure upon it. It also teaches logic and sound reasoning. In Geometry sloppy thinking doesn't cut it. Either it is a right angle, which is defined as a 90 degree angle, or it is not. There is no, "well I sorta kinda think it might be."

Calculus is the mathematics of motion and change. In order to be able to clearly define changes and how it is affected by small amounts you have to understand the basics of Calculus.

Want to understand how the universe is laid out? Then you need Topology and the Mathematics of higher dimensional geometries.

Mathematics is useless only to those who do not understand and cannot and will not confront the real skull sweat it takes to gain a mastery of the basics, and the real basics extend well beyond how to add and subtract to make change at McDonalds.

Of course the other basic subjects are important too. In fact Martianus Capella thought they were so important that as the Roman Empire was dying he saw the need to leave a time capsule, in the form of a small library of books, called "The Seven Liberal Arts" which are the basis upon which ALL Western Education arose. Geometry was, in his estimation, one of the essential subjects for the educated person.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-02-19   14:19:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Original_Intent (#2)

I take it you are mathematically challenged

No, I'm not. But 99% of the people in this country need nothing more than arithmetic. They don't need math at all.

Math is for those like it and are good at it. For everyone else, it's a waste of time.

After I got out of school, I never used algebra, trig or calculus. Not once.

"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson

Turtle  posted on  2011-02-19   14:48:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Turtle (#0)

The library will be the place where they grow up.

Bullshit. THey can go there now to learn. Do they?

Or the internet. There's much information there. But then there's facebook, porn, games and other things that keep them occupied.

Have you ever bitched about the dumbing down of the educational system? If you have, I dont see how you could agree with this.

I say that if you have to force them to learn, then use force.

BTW, math for basic electricity that he used as an example is easy. Math for electronics is not. Business math is not easy either. Just about anything that requires manufacturing also requires math beyong adding and subtracting.

But if you want a nation of ditch diggers, and there is nothing wrong with digging ditches but it builds nothing but ditches, then don't teach them anything except how to catch bullets and shrapnel or how to be a good manual laborer doing the same crap day in and day out.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Niggers ruin everything.

PSUSA  posted on  2011-02-19   15:28:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Turtle, all (#3)

Much to my complete lack of surprise you totally miss, or evade, my point. Whether one uses mathematics as a practical tool in their day to day endeavors of making a living is sublimely irrelevant to my basic point. A study of mathematics through the level of basic Freshman Calculus promotes a better understanding of the world around one and teaches one disciplined, organized, logical, and rational thought. As well, as part of complete basic education, it provides the learner with the opportunity to pursue other endeavors and erases limitations.

That it may have no immediate utility in shuffling papers or driving nails is not a relevant or valid objection to the study of mathematics.

As well a study of basic mathematics, defined as up through elementary Calculus, provides options to the learner. The question you don't ask, which is important and relevant, is how many of those people you know who do not apply mathematics day to day do that not by choice but because they do not know how? Mathematics, and language, are the bases from which a thorough education is built. You might as well say that Shakespeare is of no use to someone one who is not involved in acting, and you would be engaging in the same vein of faulty reasoning. The same applies to Philosophy which has no immediate utility to a bricklayer but which nevertheless enriches his world and expands his horizons and ability to ask for himself the great questions: "Who am I?", "What am I?", and, "Is their meaning to it all?"

All of those are important. Because they provide no immediate income makes them worth no less because they address that which is most important - the needs of the individual upon their fundamental level of existence, their level of happiness in life, and their ability to rationally interact with the world around them. It opens horizons otherwise unseen.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-02-19   15:41:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: PSUSA, Turdle, Turtle, all (#4)

But if you want a nation of ditch diggers, and there is nothing wrong with digging ditches but it builds nothing but ditches, then don't teach them anything except how to catch bullets and shrapnel or how to be a good manual laborer doing the same crap day in and day out.

And the clock strikes twelve. One of those rare moments of concurrence in which I am in total agreement with you.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-02-19   15:43:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Original_Intent (#6)

One of those rare moments of concurrence in which I am in total agreement with you.

It is a little disconcerting.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Niggers ruin everything.

PSUSA  posted on  2011-02-19   16:40:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: PSUSA (#7)

Strange feeling isn't?

Just goes to support my general outlook - in that most people mean well - no matter how pigheaded, obstinate, and opinionated they may be at other times. ;-)

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-02-19   16:56:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Turtle (#3)

No, I'm not. But 99% of the people in this country need nothing more than arithmetic.

That's a "Saudi" attitude.

If you want to see a country where that sort of orientation reigns supreme, pay that place a visit some time.

It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.

randge  posted on  2011-02-19   18:14:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: randge, Turtle (#9)

No, I'm not. But 99% of the people in this country need nothing more than arithmetic.

That's a "Saudi" attitude.

If you want to see a country where that sort of orientation reigns supreme, pay that place a visit some time.

If you want to see a country where that sort of orientation reigns supreme, pay that place the Ozarks a visit some time.

There, fixed it.

They is be some guud Banjo pickers though, and some good 'shine.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-02-19   18:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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