4um: Abuse victim claims Penn State pedophilia predates Sandusky, current scandal by decades

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Title: Abuse victim claims Penn State pedophilia predates Sandusky, current scandal by decades
Source: NY Daily News
URL Source: http://articles.nydailynews.com/201 ... ate-professor-abuse-man-claims
Published: Nov 27, 2011
Author: LARRY MCSHANE
Post Date: 2011-11-27 00:19:01 by Original_Intent
Keywords: Pedophelia, Sandusky, Penn State, censored reference to Pe** Sta
Views: 2495
Comments: 66

Abuse victim claims Penn State pedophilia predates Sandusky, current scandal by decades
LARRY MCSHANE
Wednesday, November 16, 2011
An Arizona man claims he was sexually abused 30 years ago by a Penn State professor — and the university refused to investigate his claims.
Paul McLaughlin, now of Phoenix, says the abuse began when he was just 11 and lasted from 1977-81, with an education professor and two other predators targeting him.
The victim told ABC News that he made audiotapes in 2001 of conversations where Prof. Jack Neisworth admitted performing oral sex on him.
“Although I had clear evidence of abuse by this professor, the university refused to act,” charged McLaughlin. “Last week’s arrest of Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky for the same kind of abuse suggests little has changed.”
Poster Comment:
Something else for the true believers to avoid.(1 image)
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#1. To: Original_Intent (#0)
In 2006, the professor — without admitting any wrongdoing — reached an out-of-court settlement with McLaughlin in a lawsuit filed by the purported victim.

I guess that is why the tapes weren't released.
But why did he not send this to LEO? Why the university? Not that LEO would have done anything about it, since they let Sandusky rape kids for all these years. But still it is a LE matter.
That doesn't make sense to me. Unless it was because of a statute of limitations.
Looks like the pedos were well entrenched at Pedd St. These professors act like catholic priests.
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Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
PSUSA2 posted on 2011-11-27 6:34:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: PSUSA2 (#1)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 8:55:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: Eric Stratton (#2) (Edited)
Point being, I tend to think that this is demonic/evil/satanic rather than merely 'criminal.'

I disagree.
I see it as psychological. Many were abused as kids and that has an effect. They were preyed upon, and now they are the predators. We didn't go thru that, so we can't identify with it.
And I disagree on this being "demonic". Sheesh, Satan doesn't get any respect :(
It seems to be more of a mainstream christian thing to me. Spare the "rod", spoil the child. (I am SO GOING TO HELL for that...)
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Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
PSUSA2 posted on 2011-11-27 10:52:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: Eric Stratton, psusa (#2)
id like to know why the families of all these alleged kids would let their kids be alone so much with college football people? wtf? who were these people?
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 11:00:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: PSUSA2 (#1)
Also, the question you asked last week stuck with me because I had the same question. Who was the "single officer" who was initially assigned to investigate the pervs & did nothing. What was his name, & where is he now.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 11:03:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: Artisan (#4)
For the most part Artisan, these kids weren't from what most sane people would call traditional families. They were the kids of "single parents" (read mothers). One could easily open this mess up further to the collapse of the traditional family unit, which is encouraged by the whore media, HollyWeird, and the intentional attack on American values.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 11:06:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: All, psusa2, eric stratton (#5)
(contd) didnt know is that my dad, uncle, brothers & their pals were about 20 rows up. haha. By the time "tough coach" reached them, my oldest bro & blocked & confronted him. Coach nearly pissed his pants LoL! He was "sweetie pie" for years afterwards.

Also,kids need to know they can trust their kin to protect them. When I was 14, a coach at a end season championship football game saw me running up the bleachers with a friend. The coach grabbed me by the shoulder & shouted to stop. Well, what the douche
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 11:12:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: Artisan (#5)
Also, the question you asked last week stuck with me because I had the same question. Who was the "single officer" who was initially assigned to investigate the pervs & did nothing. What was his name, & where is he now.

From the NY Times:

the two men identified by prosecutors as the police officers who worked on the case, Schreffler and Ralph Ralston, and the investigator with the state welfare department, Gerald Lauro, who was charged with determining if a child had been harmed.
Schreffler — who appears to have been the lead detective, and who interviewed Sandusky — refused to comment when reached at his home in Bellefonte, Pa. He has retired from the campus police force and works at least part time for a security firm in Baltimore, according to his former wife.
“I’ve got nothing to say,” Schreffler said Tuesday night.
Schreffler’s current wife, Laurel, reached Wednesday, said, “I’m sorry, I’m not allowed to talk.”
In an interview this week, Ralston, who said he worked for the local State College police force, insisted he played only a peripheral role in the investigation. He said his role was merely to make sure that campus police had access to the boy, who Ralston said lived in his jurisdiction.
“I can’t even remember anything about it,” Ralston said.
He said he never followed up with campus police or child welfare authorities to find out the conclusion of their investigations.
“I didn’t think any more of it until I read the report over the weekend,” he said of the attorney general’s charges against Sandusky and other university officials. “There was stuff in there I never heard before.”
Lauro, the investigator for the state welfare department in 1998, said he was aware during the investigation that Sandusky was a prominent local figure, but that it did not affect his work.
“Was he a high-profile person?” Lauro asked. “I’d have to be stupid to tell you no. Everybody knew him.”
At the time of his investigation, Lauro said, all the child said was that Sandusky showered with him, and it made him uncomfortable. Lauro said he didn’t feel that was enough to substantiate a sexual-abuse complaint.
Lauro suggested that the child, now grown, had told the grand jury convened by the attorney general a much more explicit account.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 11:16:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: Jethro Tull (#6)
well that makes perfect sense & relates to my post below. I went to one of these sports obsessed prep schools & i knew then that the mindset was screwy. My folks sent us there for the education though, not the sports obsession.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 11:17:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: Artisan (#7)
Also,kids need to know they can trust their kin to protect them.

True, but good luck with that today. Today the social system is so perverted that the insane are running the asylum. Many of us have allowed this, IMO, by disengaging and becoming the lead cast in the Hopeless and Helpless menagerie. I don't envy anyone raising children today, anywhere in this pig sty of a nation.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 11:22:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: Jethro Tull (#8)
thanks for the info. Gerald Lauro & PA Child services" seem to have a very peculiar barometer of what inappropriate is. I wonder if today, 2011, PA child serviices still maintains that adults & children showering together is normal? Damn great headline
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 11:24:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Artisan (#11)
I feel certain the problems here extend nationwide.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 11:39:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Jethro Tull (#12)
true, but what I see here is an opportunity for a devastating PR blow to the state, aside from the football hacks. If PA socialists had done their job who knows how many thousands of molestations couldve been prevented. But no, they condoned it.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 12:06:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Artisan (#13)
and Pennsylvania most certainly is not alone...it is the State of the State.

christine posted on 2011-11-27 12:14:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: Artisan (#13)
ever read stories of abuse like this that goes on in small towns for example? i have read numerous ones in Texas.

christine posted on 2011-11-27 12:16:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: Artisan (#13)
Again, true, but it's PA that is under the microscope. I contend it's a national problem. You, being in CA, are at the epicenter of Hollywood, arguably the single most corrupt influence in our culture. If it, and the freaks this nation calls "stars", all disappeared tomorrow, the societal force feeding of sexual misfits would vanish immediately, and that would be a blessing. As a student of the pre Vatican II days, google the Legion of Decency. I recall it well.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 12:18:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: PSUSA2 (#3)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 12:18:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: Artisan (#4)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 12:21:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: Artisan (#4) (Edited)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 12:21:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: christine (#15) (Edited)
Gerald Lauro, acting as an agent of PA govt, ruled that adults showering with children is acceptable & normal. Are Lauro & his bosses today, in 2011, showering nude with children that PA DCS steals from their parents?" Hows that for an opener? ;-)
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 12:23:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: Jethro Tull, All (#6)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 12:24:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: Jethro Tull (#10)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 12:26:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: Artisan (#20)
To extrapolate Lauro's malfeasance, to an entire state, is where your argument rolls off the cliff, IMO.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 12:30:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: Jethro Tull (#16)
Ive never heard of the Legion of Decency, I'll look it up. CPS depts nationwide are the most digusting evil agencies that exist. I've actually taken the one in L.A. to court & won. They are truly despicable satanic bastards, words cannot even express it.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 12:33:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: Eric Stratton (#22)
I'm in complete support of home schooling, and give you, and anyone else taking the time, money and effort to do it, all the credit in the world. If and when you do have to turn them over to a government University, they'll have a solid foundation which will - hopefully - help them avoid the Ivory Tower Perverts. This said, it's still a crap shoot w/kids. The influences on them are pure evil.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 12:36:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: Jethro Tull (#23)
but no one is claiming malfeasance on Lauro's part at all: the contention that there is nothing wrong with what he found speaks volumes for the agency that i know takes peoples kids daily for normal shouts & spanks given by normal parents.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 12:38:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: Artisan (#26) (Edited)
No one is claiming it yet. It's all under investigation. But despite what is found regarding Lauro, sane people know it's complete malfeasance. Again, a sick sign of the times. I know nothing about biblical references, but I recall remembering, and being impressed by a reference that said something to the effect, as the end time approaches, those who previously exhibited good judgement and character, would change for the worse.
I think we're there.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 12:48:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 12:50:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: Eric Stratton (#28)
the money aspect of homeschooling is in regards to the fact that most families dont think they could scrape by financially with only 1 parent working. & leaves the prospect of single parent homsechoolers virtually impossible. The bankers win again!
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2011-11-27 12:59:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: Eric Stratton (#17)
men that grew up w/o dads, etc., etc., ... that don't nor ever did molest young boys.

That is not what I meant. I meant that those that grew up being molested are likely to molest others, same as those that had dads abuse the mothers end up being abusive too, etc.
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Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
PSUSA2 posted on 2011-11-27 14:45:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: Artisan (#20)
Gerald Lauro, acting as an agent of PA govt, ruled that adults showering with children is acceptable & normal. Are Lauro & his bosses today, in 2011, showering nude with children that PA DCS steals from their parents?" Hows that for an opener? ;-)

Now this story is really starting to smell like a texas feedlot on a hot muggy august day.
Either Lauro is lying, or the accuser is lying. I wonder who is telling the truth here. Cops dont lie, right? Especially when they are trying to cover their ass(es).
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Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
PSUSA2 posted on 2011-11-27 14:54:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: christine (#15)
ever read stories of abuse like this that goes on in small towns for example? i have read numerous ones in Texas.

There are plenty of pervs to go around. Sadly that does not surprise me, and the Jehovah's Witlesses are notorious for covering it up within their groups.
What makes this case different is that the lid has been blown off and it was not just one perv sidling up to a child. It was the use of a major local charitable group to create a front for pedophiles - and apparently some powerful and well heeled ones - who have the ability to make DA's "disappear". While I do not condone it in any case this appears to have been an organized operation that extended beyond Sandusky, and it was covered over and buried by adults who were more concerned with their careers, the money, etc., .... It is not just the abuse, as bad as it is, but the actions to try to cover it up and then justify the cover up.
The lack of apparent interest in doing what is right, on the part of the Pedd State fans and alumni, does not reflect well on them and the opprobrium it has brought about appears well earned.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 15:03:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: Original_Intent, christine (#32)
On a side note, if this was a hot female teacher, we would not be seeing the outrage from men associated with this story.
What is a calorie? Calories are the little bastards that get into your wardrobe at night and sew your clothes tighter... MY CLOSET IS INFESTED WITH THE LITTLE SHITS.
farmfriend posted on 2011-11-27 15:06:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: Eric Stratton, Jethro Tull (#22)
I don't envy anyone raising children today, anywhere in this pig sty of a nation.
We wonder all but daily if the Tyranny/pigs are going to prevent us from finishing home-schooling our kids. There are so many false perceptions out there about home-schooling.

And those false perceptions have been carefully planted and repeated. The establishment/Psych power structure does not like home schooling because it shows up just how bad the publik skools are. That is one of the reasons they keep looking for ways to keep home schooled kids out of such as the National Spelling and Math Bees - because home schoolers are winning them. And given the very small percentage of kids being home schooled that is a powerful indictment of the skool systum.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 15:09:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: Original_Intent (#32) (Edited)
who have the ability to make DA's "disappear".

Who are the "who" you are referring to?

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 15:11:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: Original_Intent (#34)
#34, agree here.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 15:12:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: farmfriend, Original_Intent, christine (#33)
On a side note, if this was a hot female teacher, we would not be seeing the outrage from men associated with this story.

Depends on the age of the kid. A teen would be one thing and a ten year old another. However, I'm not aware of any organized pedophile rings of hot female teachers using a charity as a front. Are you? Sandusky seems to have had a taste for young boys. Big difference. While the hot female teacher may well have a loose screw it is hetero not homo. Nevertheless an adult preying on a child is not acceptable. We had a former governor chased out of the state because it came out that he'd been screwing a neighbor's 14 year old daughter. The local establishment, including the Whoregonian Newspaper, remained mute until it was exposed by smaller press operations.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 15:16:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: Original_Intent (#37)
yes age has a lot to do with it as does orientation though I'm sure if you asked Sandusky he would say he is not homo and actually believe it.
What is a calorie? Calories are the little bastards that get into your wardrobe at night and sew your clothes tighter... MY CLOSET IS INFESTED WITH THE LITTLE SHITS.
farmfriend posted on 2011-11-27 15:20:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: Jethro Tull (#35)
who have the ability to make DA's "disappear".
Who are the "who" you are referring to?

If I knew I would say. I am simply making an inference. In the case of the DA it could have been another case, but the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests he was whacked. If, as I suspect and the rumors indicate, that the Second (s)Mile was being used as a feeder for other peds with high level big money connections then that provides a motive for silencing a too inquisitive DA. Like in any kind of detective work you have to start with the best theories that explain the available evidence and then dig for more evidence to either confirm or disprove the theory.
What is so troubling here has been the apparent active disinterest of a lot of people to start turning over rocks to see what scuttles out.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 15:22:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: farmfriend (#38)
yes age has a lot to do with it as does orientation though I'm sure if you asked Sandusky he would say he is not homo and actually believe it.

It would appear he has a lot of other mistaken apprehensions as well.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 15:26:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: Original_Intent, 4 (#39) (Edited)
In the case of the DA it could have been another case, but the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests he was whacked.

Consider this, keeping in mind Occam's razor;
1) There was a known family history of suicide. Gricar’s brother, Roy, committed suicide. Roy Gricar suffered from serious depression, which can be genetic. Police and family members noted that the location where Ray’s vehicle was found – adjacent to two bridges over the Susquehanna River – bore some similarities to the location where the vehicle of Roy Gricar, was located before his body was found in the Great Miami River in Ohio in 1996.
2) Ray Gricar had a previous disappearance. While in his capacity as DA, he went AWOL for three? days, surfacing in Cleveland only to say he wanted to see his beloved Indians play baseball.
3) IIRC, at the time it was reported that Gricar’s demeanor in the weeks prior to his disappearance had changed. This came from his co-workers, people who knew him, and a member of the press that talked to him a month before; his girlfriend and housemate noted that he napping more. That could be a symptom of depression.
4) Had/if he was “disappeared” why would a presumably highly skilled team snatch him, but leave behind his laptop and hard drive where they both would eventually discovered? And in a nearby river no less? Surly the abductors would expect the river would be the first place to be searched. My experience leads me to believe it would leave the scene with Gricar.
EDIT:
5) Gricar's new car was titled in his g/f name alone. This could suggest a degree of "estate planning."

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 16:21:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: Jethro Tull (#41) (Edited)
There was a known family history of suicide. Gricar’s brother, Roy, committed suicide. Roy Gricar suffered from serious depression, which can be genetic.

Unsupported assertion. There is not one scrap, iota, smidgin, bit, or crumb of evidence to support that ANY emotional attitude, tone, or behavior is in any way connected to genetics. That is merely an assertion with no supporting evidence.

Ray Gricar had a previous disappearance. While in his capacity as DA, he went AWOL for three? days, surfacing in Cleveland only to say he wanted to see his beloved Indians play baseball.

And that proves what? That he was an Indians fan? Citing it, absent any other evidence to establish any linkage or relationship, is simply a means of trying to confuse and create an impression where evidence is lacking to establish any connection.

IIRC, at the time it was reported that Gricar’s demeanor in the weeks prior to his disappearance had changed. This came from his co-workers, people who knew him, and a member of the press that talked to him a month before; his girlfriend and housemate noted that he napping more. That could be a symptom of depression.

Key words: "Could be". It could also be the behavior of a man who had received a credible death threat.

Had/if he was “disappeared” why would a presumably highly skilled team snatch him, but leave behind his laptop and hard drive where they both would eventually discovered?

When the laptop was recovered TWO MONTHS LATER its hard drive had been removed. Divers thoroughly searched the bridge area nearest where his car was found and were not able to find it. It turned up downstream in a mud bank under a bridge well after the body had been recovered. Gee do you think someone could, just hypothetically mind you, kind of, uhmm, err, ahh, dropped it from the bridge later?
The hard drive was recovered even later and separately i.e., it was NOT in the laptop. It had been wiped completely clean. Anyone who knows computers will tell you that does not happen by accident. When you erase a file, or drive, what the computer does is simply remove the pointers to the data. Then new data is simply written over the top. While there are now tools that will rewrite the disk with all ones and zeros even that is not fool proof as a good forensics man can still recover something, and the drive is not unreadable - it just reads all ones and zeros. While even if it had been in the water a good forensics man should have been able to recover something. Water does not erase magnetic media. Even if the mechanism was irreparably damaged the disk assembly could be cleaned up and placed in another housing and then read. However, there was no data to be recovered. That is an interesting datum. While nothing proves nothing the total absence of anything suggests very strongly that disk had been professionally wiped by someone who knew what they were doing - OR a blank disk assembly was inserted in place of the data bearing one before the hard drive was planted to be found.
It is also interesting what he didn't take with him i.e., his cell phone was discovered in the car. So, he leaves the much smaller cell phone behind and caries away his laptop, removes the drive after having it professionally wiped, and then jumps in the river with it. Yup, that definitely conforms to Occam's Razor. Makes sense to me. People do that every day don't they? That is jump off of bridges after removing the wiped hard drive from their laptop while leaving their cell phone behind?
While I can't rule out suicide neither does the evidence support it. The appearances are more that of a professional hit where the people doing it were well skilled. The hard drive wipe suggests someone was trying to eliminate evidence or knowledge of something. No, the evidence is not conclusive, but other than trying to dredge up his brother there is nothing that clearly suggests suicide.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 17:05:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: Original_Intent (#42)
Research on the heredity of depression within families shows that some individuals are more likely to develop the illness than others. If you have a parent or sibling that has had major depression, you may be 1.5 to 3 times more likely to develop the condition than those who do not have a close relative with the condition">

Your comment,
When the laptop was recovered TWO MONTHS LATER its hard drive had been removed. Divers thoroughly searched the area where his body was found and were not able to find it. It turned up downstream in a mud bank under a bridge well after the body had been recovered. Gee do you think someone could, just hypothetically mind you, kind of, uhmm, err, ahh, dropped it from the bridge later?
What found body are you talking about?

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 17:15:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: Original_Intent (#43)
Bump to #43

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 17:39:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: Original_Intent (#44)
Bump to #43, second request.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 17:57:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: Jethro Tull, all (#43)
What found body are you talking about?

My bad, no body was found, and I stand corrected. I should have said the bridge nearest where his car was found.

Research on the heredity of depression within families shows that some individuals are more likely to develop the illness than others. If you have a parent or sibling that has had major depression, you may be 1.5 to 3 times more likely to develop the condition than those who do not have a close relative with the condition">

Your comment,

Simply analyzing the logic one can quickly classify that assertion as junk science. Key words, MAY BE. "May be" is not science and it is not proof of a cause it is an assertion of a possible correlation. Co-incidence is not cause. Logically this is known as the fallacy of Division and it's sibling The Fallacy of Composition.
An assertion or assumption is not a fact, and asserting something does not prove a specific cause. As I pointed out to someone else that although characteristics of family members can be similar it does not prove a genetic cause nor does it represent a uniform distribution of behaviors.
Check of Proof:

John is a person
John's father is a drunk
Therefore John is drunk

or put another way

Alcoholism is hereditary
John's father was a drunk
Therefore John is a Drunk

The conclusion is unsupported and is therefore logically false. Where property "P" does not distribute uniformly throughout a population or universe.
Q.E.D.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 18:14:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: Original_Intent, christine, 4 (#46)
My bad, no body was found, and I stand corrected.

Whoa....please don't take this personally, but if you entered this investigation not knowing this most basic fact, anything you say from this point forward regarding this matter, is, well, noise. Other than that you're a nice guy.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 18:18:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: Jethro Tull (#47)
No, I was well aware of that fact. I slipped up. I have never claimed to be perfect - there are a lot facts and data bouncing around in that sometimes empty sphere.
I however stand corrected on that point but misremembering one fact does not disprove any of the other cited evidence. Neither does it disprove my logic lesson.
I can understand your looking for any chink in my armor of reason but I do try to be intellectually honest. When I slip up I admit it. It is the honorable thing to do.
I am not trying to humble you nor humiliate you, but neither will I compromise my own reality just to be agreeable.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 18:32:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: Jethro Tull (#47)
As a footnote the absence of a body actually supports my contention that it was likely a hit not a suicide as no body has ever been found, and yet both his laptop and the hard drive which had been removed and wiped clean showed up in the river. A dead body, unless weighted down, will eventually bloat up, surface, and likely wash ashore. And there were divers looking for it.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 18:36:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: Original_Intent (#48)
I can understand your looking for any chink in my armor

Chink in your armor?
I'm afraid it's much more than that.
It impeached your entire thesis.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 18:40:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#50) (Edited)
Nice try no cigar.
No, you pointed out a slip in my memory of a fact I was well aware of.
In what way does the presence or absence affect the computer, the hard drive, the fact that it was wiped so clean that there was no recoverable data, that he left no note, no warning, nothing? There is no evidence to suggest suicide. And that he carried away his laptop and removed and wiped the hard drive, but left his cell phone and keys behind in the car?
Try as you might your attempt to assert it was a suicide fails because there is no evidence to suggest it was a suicide other than trying to assert that "his brother committed suicide therefore this was a suicide". That is so weak logically and barren of evidence as to be at best a very tenuous unsupported assertion.
Neither am I maintaining that his death was a hit though I think that most likely. It is merely that the preponderance of evidence suggests, circumstantially, that as the mostly likely explanation.
Why else would someone dispose of the body leaving no trace?
Neither does the evidence prove that it was the Sandusky/Pe** State case that was the reason for the possible hit. However, the suggestion that Sandusky was supplying boys to high level well connected people does suggest a motive, particularly if he was secretly gathering evidence for a larger case, and let Sandusky walk because of that.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 18:51:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: Original_Intent (#51)
No, you pointed out a slip in my memory of a fact I was well aware of.

You stated Gricar was found dead two times.
No sale on the slip my friend....
Now I'll leave you to redevelop another tale of mystery and intrigue, sans fact, of course.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 18:56:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: Jethro Tull (#52)
How would you likely want me to write it?
Shall I avoid mentioning the magical appearance of the laptop sans hard drive two months after his disappearance?
Should I forget that the hard drive showed up later, separately, and was wiped so clean that computer forensics could recover nothing whatsoever from it? That water cannot erase magnetic media?

You stated Gricar was found dead two times.

Semantics. You are trying to conflate one item into a federal case, and all it does is turn around and support my case. Since the body was much larger than a laptop it would also have been much harder to miss.
No, the most probable explanation for the missing body is that it was never in the river. And now so much time has elapsed that it is so badly decomposed that to plant it (as the computer and hard drive likely were), if it is even accessible, would allow a good Forensic Pathologist to learn an awful lot about how Gricar actually died. It is very hard to hide a bullet hole in the head or knife driven into a vital spot, or to confuse the marks left by a garotte.
While the evidence is not definitive it very strongly suggests that he was whacked by person or persons unknown for cause or reason unknown.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 19:08:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: Original_Intent (#53)
O_I, I like and respect you. You are an exceptionally bright guy, so obviously I'm not questioning your intellect. I am suggesting that based on both life experience and direct experience when Gricar went missing, when something isn't known, it isn't known. This changes for me *pending* additional facts. Perhaps some will be developed with the spotlight on, but I haven't a clue. For me, to argue hypotheticals and speculation is to place last in the 10 yard Special Olympics dash.
PS: The hot rumor up here w/he went missing - I never suggested suicide - was that he went into the Witness Protection Program. I didn't buy that then, nor now. If a high profile dude like Sammy "The Bull" Gravano told the feds to stuff the WPP, the very nutty, and very anonymous, Mr Gricar was in no need of it either.
All IMVHO.

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 19:29:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: Artisan (#29)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 19:34:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#56. To: PSUSA2 (#30)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 19:35:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#57. To: Original_Intent, All (#34)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-27 19:39:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#58. To: Jethro Tull (#54)
O_I, I like and respect you. You are an exceptionally bright guy, so obviously I'm not questioning your intellect. I am suggesting that based on both life experience and direct experience when Gricar went missing, when something isn't known, it isn't known. This changes for me *pending* additional facts. Perhaps some will be developed with the spotlight on, but I haven't a clue. For me, to argue hypotheticals and speculation is to place last in the 10 yard Special Olympics dash.

Thanks, and neither do I dislike you. I can disagree with someone without allowing that to color my opinion of them.
My sole point is that the circumstantial evidence suggests he was likely done away with, but I am a long way from asserting that as an absolute fact. Sometimes though logical inference is a useful tool and Gricar's disappearance is the kind of puzzle that I like working with. I also spent a lot of time working over the Wheeler murder - with equally ambiguous results - although I am convinced he was whacked by someone within or connected to our government.
The world is sometimes a shadowy and ambiguous place, and evidence which is insufficient to convict in court can nevertheless suggest a most likely scenario. I'm not conducting a prosecution I am just trying to make sense of what pieces of the puzzle we have and fit them together into something that looks like it might be the beginnings of a full picture.
Solving a puzzle does, sometimes, require forming a hypothesis, and I do differentiate between a hypothesis and pure speculation. Here we have just barely enough fact to form what looks like a hypothesis that might fit the facts together into a coherent picture, and that is all I maintain.
What makes it interesting is fitting it into the context of the larger picture containing the allegations that this scandal may reach much higher than Sandusky. However, again there is insufficient evidence to mount a case but there is sufficient to begin forming a hypothesis which makes sense of what we know. However, it is again not proven.
AIMMOLHO ;-)
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 19:55:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#59. To: Original_Intent (#58)
Well stated, and carry on sir!

Jethro Tull posted on 2011-11-27 20:00:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#60. To: Jethro Tull (#59)
Thank you worthy sir. ;-)
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-27 20:04:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#61. To: Eric Stratton (#57)
Actually, I have to believe that the real reason why they hate it is because they cannot influence the childrens' morality nearly as much as parents that homeschool are far more likely to be vigilant to monitor their kids' moral influences and stimuli much more than other parents.

I don't disagree. That is one of the points of what is called "Values Clarification" in the Publik Skools. It is to denigrate those values which we have in the past called right and wrong.
Excerpt:

According to authorities like Beverly Eakman, director of the National Education Consortium, and Tom DeWeese of the American Policy Foundation, the underlying concept of “values clarification” is to break down the morals and values children have acquired in the course of growing up, teach them that there is no set “right” and “wrong”, and have them chart their own values based on personal feelings and opinions. The same concepts underlie “outcome-based” or “performance-based” education which stresses psychological objectives such as relationships, self-esteem and refusal skills, instead of academics.

William Kilpatrick, author of Why Johnny Can’t Tell Right from Wrong, states that the psychological-values training emphasizes “feelings, personal growth, and a totally nonjudgmental attitude.” However, “no time is spent providing moral guidance or forming character. The virtues are not explained or discussed, no models of good behavior are provided, no reason is given why a boy or girl should want to be good in the first place.” Kilpatrick states that the kids “come away with the impression that even the most basic values are matters of dispute.”

There's a reason why the Dept. of Edumacation was created, and it had absolutely nothing to do with true education any more than most departments/agencies actually serve their own namesakes either.

It ought be called the Dept. of Psych Warfare against children. Charlotte Iserbyt has written a lot about the realities of it after having worked there. That is why there is so much resistance to doing away with it as it is aimed at control not education.

"This is the idea where we drop subject matter and we drop Carnegie Unites (grading from A-F) and we just let students find their way, keeping them in school until they manifest the politically correct attitudes. You see, one of the effects of self-esteem (Values Clarification) programs is that you are no longer obliged to tell the truth if you don’t feel like it. You don’t have to tell the truth because if the truth you have to tell is about your own failure then your self-esteem will go down and that is unthinkable." Dr. William Coulson, explaining Outcome Based Education (OBE)

"What basic psychological distortion can be found in every civilization of which we know anything? The only psychological force capable of producing these perversions is morality--the concept of right and wrong. The re-interpretation and eventual eradication of the concept of right and wrong are the belated objectives of nearly all psychotherapy." ~ Dr. G. Brock Chisholm, Psychiatrist, Co-Founder World Federation of Mental Health

Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-28 3:56:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#62. To: Original_Intent (#61)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-28 7:53:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#63. To: Original_Intent (#61)
There's a reason why the Dept. of Edumacation was created, and it had absolutely nothing to do with true education any more than most departments/agencies actually serve their own namesakes either.
It ought be called the Dept. of Psych Warfare against children. Charlotte Iserbyt has written a lot about the realities of it after having worked there. That is why there is so much resistance to doing away with it as it is aimed at control not education. ....

"What basic psychological distortion can be found in every civilization of which we know anything? The only psychological force capable of producing these perversions is morality--the concept of right and wrong. The re-interpretation and eventual eradication of the concept of right and wrong are the belated objectives of nearly all psychotherapy." ~ Dr. G. Brock Chisholm, Psychiatrist, Co-Founder World Federation of Mental Health

I was reading about him earlier today here:
George Brock Chisholm: SICKO!
Father of public school philosophy hated God, morality, and country...
“To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family tradition, national patriotism, and religious dogmas.” —George Brock Chisholm, in a Speech given at the, Conference on Education, Asilomar, California, September 11, 1954....
Chisholm has been obsessed for years with the idea that instilling concepts of right and wrong, love of country, and morality in children by their parents is the paramount evil. In another speech, he said:
The people who have been taught to believe whatever they were told by their parents or their teachers are the people who are the menace to the world. (Speech, Conference on Education, Asilomar, California, September 11, 1954)

What besides concepts of morality and right and wrong does Dr. Chisholm consider to be a neurosis? He explains it in this speech:
Even self-defense may involve a neurotic reaction when it means defending one's own excessive wealth from others who are in need. (Psychiatry, February, 1946)
Chisholm proposes that psychotherapy be used to eradicate such neuroses as a man wishing to defend his own private property in this way:
There must be an opportunity to live reasonably comfortable for all the people in the world on economic levels which do not vary too widely either geographically or by groups within a population. This is a simple matter of redistribution of material wealth. (Mental Health and World Citizenship, International Congress on Mental Health, London, 1948, p.8)
This is the basic Marxist concept, i.e., that those who have should have it taken away. How different are Chisholm's ideas from those of America's pioneers. Had they decided on some scheme of redistribution of the wealth, all would have stayed poor and hungry, because there was no wealth.
Instead of redistributing what meager wealth was available, they conceived a system of government which safeguarded private property. Initiative was stimulated and people were encouraged to produce, and by producing, to create new wealth for themselves. In the process, all men benefited from more jobs, new products and services. In freedom, men have made more spiritual, moral, intellectual progress, and produced more material wealth for themselves and others than under any other system conceived by man.
Although honored and recognized by many as a great humanitarian, George Brock Chisholm was a wolf in sheep's clothing who despised God, morality, and the Christian family. The public school system today is controlled by evil people who have sold their souls to the Devil. Children who should be learning about their Creator are instead being brainwashed with the unproven and non-scientific THEORIES of godless Evolution. Sicko groups like GLSEN, working in the public school, are trying to turn children into homosexuals.
The Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) EXPOSED [ www.jesus-is-savior.com/E...teaching_kids_gay_sex.htm ]!.

Dr. Chisholm, Margaret Mead (the federation’s second president) and other social scientists from ten countries wrote its founding document, "Mental Health and World Citizenship" (SOURCE: "Origins of the World Federation for Mental Health"). Notice their attitude toward traditional values...
“Studies of human development indicate the modifiability of human behaviour throughout life, especially during infancy, childhood and adolescence.... The social sciences and psychiatry also offer a better understanding of the great obstacles to rapid progress in human affairs....

"Social institutions such as family and school impose their imprint early.... It is the men and women in whom these patterns of attitude and behaviour have been incorporated who present the immediate resistance to social, economic and political changes. Thus, prejudice, hostility or excessive nationalism may become deeply embedded in the developing personality... often at great human cost....

"...change will be strongly resisted unless an attitude of acceptance has first been engendered."

(SOURCE: "Mental Health and World Citizenship," founding document of the World Federation for Mental Health, pages 7 and 8. Distributed by the National Association For Mental Health, Inc., 1790 Broadway, New York 19, N.Y.).
Today, more than half a century later, that "attitude of acceptance" has been built. Nations around the world are fast conforming to the pattern set in the 1940s. The global network of "mental health" partners is working to prevent anything that would hinder "positive" collective thinking in the rising global village. Few notice its tentacles reaching into community health programs and civil society in over 130 nations around the world.
END
Public Schools are Evil | Satan's bid for your child | The Attack on Motherhood
Steps toward Global Mind Control under the banner of Mental Health and Education
Chronology of events leading to UNESCO's global education program
I Highly Recommend Homeschooling Your Children
Education Philosophy: What's Wrong with Public Schools?
21 Ways Public Schools Harm Your Child
Public Education or Pagan Indoctrination?
Public schools teaching occult religion?
How Psychologists Have Destroyed Children's Reading Ability
Learning Fascism in American Schools
Sabotage of the U.S. Educational System
Psychiatry Harms Children
Homosexual Agenda in Our Public Schools
The Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) EXPOSED!
Public Schools: Manufacturing Centers for Mindless, Immoral Slaves
The Failing Educational System in America (Dumbing Down Our Children)
Failure of Sex Education in the Public Schools
Homosexual Activists Solidify Hold on Schools
Baptist Leader Pushes Home Schooling | Child Training Page | Surrounded by Sex!
Children, to Have or Not to have?
How to Make a Man Out of a Boy -by Dr. Jack Hyles
How to Rear Children -by Dr. Jack Hyles
Training of Children -by General William Booth (founder of the Salvation Army)
What About Professional Sports? | Psychiatric Drugs | DCFS Monsters! | Information for Parents
www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/chisholm.htm
bible.cc/micah/4-11.htm
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt posted on 2011-11-28 11:49:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#64. To: Eric Stratton (#62)
The starting point, and it is a big read, is Charlotte Iserbyt's "Deliberate Dumbing Down of America". It is a thousand pages packed with source documents which she brought with her from her time working in the Reagan Education Department as a senior exec. Her website also has a lot of information.
The book was originally about 50 bucks but as a public service she now offers it as a free .pdf download.
She is also a conservative devout Christian.
Her website is Deliberate Dumbing Down
Gatto's book is good too but not as exhaustive and they both reach similar answers coming from opposite ends of the political spectrum - Gatto the Liberal and Iserbyt the Conservative.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-28 14:18:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#65. To: Original_Intent (#64)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Eric Stratton posted on 2011-11-28 14:27:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#66. To: Eric Stratton (#65)
You are welcome. I don't know about it being an "easier" read as she spells it out in detail, but it is a very informative must read for anyone wanting to understand just how contrived, and intentionally dumbed down "modern" Publik Skools are.
Remember The White Rose"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2011-11-28 18:36:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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