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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: The Root Commission Formula: "No fight, No Loans" [WWI to crurrent times]
Source: Various + 4um topic: The Polar Bear Expedition: US/Allied Fo
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=140808&Disp=6#C6
Published: Dec 12, 2011
Author: Various
Post Date: 2011-12-12 15:32:32 by GreyLmist
Keywords: "No fight, No Loans", The Root Commission Formula, WWI, Current Times
Views: 3494
Comments: 8

From The Polar Bear Expedition: US/Allied Forces ordered into Russian Revolution/Civil War, 4um Post #6

The Root Commission Formula of "No Fight, No Loans". [sic]

the demand of the Allies, including the United States, that Russia should renew and reinvigorate her [WWI] war effort (bluntly expressed by Root in the formula "no fight, no loans")

Poster Comment:

More likely, the demand was first handed down to the Allies by war-profiteering financiers of the recently established Federal Reserve here as their "policy" and the "policy" of the London-based banking cartel.

More info at the 4um post-link.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

#1. To: All (#0)

Title: The Root Commission Formula: "No fight, No Loans" [WWI to crurrent times]

Typo correction: [WWI to current times]

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-12-12   15:34:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

4um title, Germany finally pays off WWI debt -- Post #2 on Pre- WWI stagecraft:

Germany had a defense alliance with Austria-Hungary and Italy. Russia had a defense alliance with Serbia and Slavs, France and Britain. After Turkey was driven out of the Balkans, Austria-Hungary intervened in the Balkan conflicts and annexed some territory there. Serbia threatened war against Austria-Hungary in 1908 over (iirc) Bosnia. Russia backed Serbia. The Balkans were at war between 1912 and 1913. On June 28, 1914, a Serb of the Black Hand national group assassinated the heir to Austria-Hungary's throne and his wife. Diplomatic channels between Austria-Hungary and Serbia broke down and Austria- Hungary declared war against Serbia a month after the assassination. Russia mobilized against Austria-Hungary and Germany mobilized to protect Austria- Hungary. The blame for that war should have gone to Serbia, Austria-Hungary, and Russia, not Germany. That it didn't shows how deranged the directors of the world stage were then and still can't even manage to report history correctly let alone manage world affairs correctly.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-12-13   13:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The Root Commission Formula of "No Fight, No Loans". [sic]

the demand of the Allies, including the United States, that Russia should renew and reinvigorate her [WWI] war effort (bluntly expressed by Root in the formula "no fight, no loans")

My Poster Comment: More likely, the demand was first handed down to the Allies by war-profiteering financiers of the recently established Federal Reserve here as their "policy" and the "policy" of the London-based banking cartel.

Online info on The Root Commission and its "financial policy" dictats of War as a requirement for loan approval is scarce but leads to the Communist Manifesto, the First Internationale's executive committee, and Samuel Gompers (a Labor Union organizer who was born in East London and immigrated at the age of thirteen with his family to "the Jewish community on Manhattan's Lower East Side.") Refs:

Samuel Gompers and the American Federation of Labor by Pamela D. Toler, PhD

Samuel Gompers (1850-1924) was born in East London. His family immigrated to America when he was thirteen, settling in the Jewish community on Manhattan's Lower East Side. In the evenings, Gompers attended free lectures and classes at Cooper Union. He received an education on the floor of the cigar workshop as well. Unlike many other skilled trades, cigar rolling was quiet work and talking was allowed. Sometimes one of the men in the shop would read to the others. Political discussion on the floor was dominated by a group of immigrants who belonged to the American branch of the First International. One of the men in Gompers's workshop, Ferdinand Laurrell, was a member of First International's executive committee and introduced Gompers to the Communist Manifesto.

[sic]

...He called his labor philosophy “bread and butter” unionism or “pure and simple” unionism.

Many saw “bread and butter unionism” as the antithesis of revolutionary ideology. Gompers argued that it was the logical extension of the teachings of Marx and Engels. He believed that their central message was the self-liberation of the working class. Building on the Marxist concept of class struggle, he said that workers have different interests from either the middle class or the wealthy. Since the working classes don't have the power to control the state, and consequently decide which laws should be passed, they cannot rely on the state to protect them. The trade union was the only organization that was purely proletarian.

Organized Labor - World war i -- americanforeignrelations.com

...Gompers had watched with fascination the evolving wartime partnership between British labor and the government during the early months of the war. He anticipated that by supporting Wilson's preparedness policies he might gain a voice for the AFL in executive branch defense councils comparable to that which British labor had won for itself. Gompers's reasoning proved correct: in 1917 he was appointed to the Council of National Defense, an organization created to prepare the country for possible involvement in the war. Gompers subsequently formed a labor subcommittee within the council that brought together representatives from business, labor, and the government to study questions of industrial coordination and to draw up guidelines on wages, hours, and mediation in war-related industries.

[sic]

[Gompers] anticipated that the defense agencies, far from being temporary, would lay the basis for a new bureaucratic order in Washington after the war in which the AFL would play a prominent role.

Gompers also sought to use his new leverage within the Wilson adminstration to expand the AFL's diplomatic influence. He obtained AFL representation on the Root Commission, a council of emissaries whose purpose was to travel to Russia to encourage it to stay in the war. He also secured the Wilson administration's support for two AFL labor commissions to go to Europe to win support among discontented European labor movements for Wilsonian war aims and to thwart European trade union efforts to plan an interbelligerent labor conference designed to negotiate an early end to the war.

[sic]

...In return for his loyalty, Wilson appointed Gompers to head the International Labor Legislation Commission, which in turn created the International Labor Organization, a labor adjunct to the League of Nations. The organization clearly bore the imprint of Gompers's corporatist [My note: read "Communist"] thinking about labor's role in international affairs. Far from being purely an organization of trade union representatives, the International Labor Organization was designed to consist of national delegations comprised of representatives from business, labor, and government.

Edit for spacing and highlighting.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-12-13   14:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Condensed version of these topics at Post #135 of 4um Title: Why I get very little "REPLIES" on 4um

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-04-18   10:09:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

From The Polar Bear Expedition: US/Allied Forces ordered into Russian Revolution/Civil War, 4um Post #6

More info there on the Root Commission [and its Formula of "No Fight, No Loans"], excerpted from the history source linked below and continued to the end of that post.

Three Men in Russia: Marye, Robins, and Francis, 1914-18
http://history.eserver.org/russia-1914-17.txt

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-05-01   7:31:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

... the Root Commission [and its Formula of "No Fight, No Loans"], excerpted from the history source linked below ...

Three Men in Russia: Marye, Robins, and Francis, 1914-18
http://history.eserver.org/russia-1914-17.txt

Annotated article-excerpts, condensed:

In 1917-18 the United States' [WWI] goals were to keep Russia fighting in the world war then raging against Germany and Austria-Hungary, to try to keep the centrist, constitutionalist pro-war Kerensky government in power and to keep the leftist, anti-war Bolsheviks out. Though it was clear that the Tsar was gone irretrievably, the necessity remained that Russia stay in the war from the Allied point of view, so as to keep Germany and her allies fighting a two-front war. A centrist, pro-Ally government such as the Kerensky government appeared to be fit in with that Allied goal considerably better than the avowed Bolshevik goal of pulling Russia out of the war. There was no clear reason for the U.S. to support one government over another, though the preference was to stay away from the radical Bolsheviks because they appeared to Americans as against property rights, religion and the rule of law.

In July, 1914, with little apparent thought about the need for a trained expert to be in the Russian capital, Woodrow Wilson appointed a wealthy, 57 year old San Francisco banker with no background whatsoever in Russian affairs, George T. Marye, to be U.S. Ambassador to the court of the Romanovs. The world war had already begun and Wilson felt that the United States needed an Ambassador in Russia because of the war situation. ... Marye served as American Ambassador to Russia from October, 1914 to March, 1916. ... There is scant indication as to how well Marye did his job; ... Marye offered no specific reasons for resigning,

About 6 weeks later, on 28 April, David Francis arrived in Moscow and assumed the post of US Ambassador. A week later, Ambassador Francis was formally received by the Emperor. Francis went to Russia in 1916,

[Francis] was the American "man on the spot" when the Revolutions occurred, though he did much of his communicating with the Bolsheviks through Raymond Robins [of the Red Cross].

On 23 February (O.S.), now styled 8 March (N.S.) [Ref. novaonline - O.S. means the “old style” Russian/Julian calendar ... N.S. means “new style” European/Gregorian calendar], the February [Russian Revolution] began. Two weeks later, on 22 March [1917], "The government of the United States, through its Ambassador in Petrograd, David R. Francis, conveyed to the Council of Ministers its official recognition of the new Russian [Provisional] Government [of Kerensky]

Somewhere around the time of the bungled July uprising, there entered into the picture the third American examined here, Raymond Robins, who came to Russia in July by his account, and was gone by the following 1 June.

Robins came to Russia in July, August or September, 1917 ... abilities which suited him for the role he was about to take on: ... a familiarity with the US labor movement and an interest in the Russian revolutionary scene.

Robins and Ambassaador Francis would differ sharply on the issue of American recognition for the second revolutionary government; Robins favored recognition, Francis opposed recognition, even though he had been the first Ambassador to extend recognition to the Kerensky government when it took over from the Tsar in March. ... The Bolsheviks were different. Francis [Note: accurately] believed them under the influence of the Germans, and still believed that in 1919 when he testified at the Senate Judiciary Hearings on Bolshevik propaganda. ... Robins never lost his view that Francis, Summers and many others were of the "indoor mind" kind of people, and that Lockhart, Judson, Thompson [of the Red Cross] and himself [also a Red Cross official] were of the the "outdoor mind" camp.

At the end of August, Woodrow Wilson sent a greeting to the Conference assembling in Moscow in August, 1917, expressing "confidence in the ultimate triumph of ideals and democracy and self-government against all enemies within and without, ... ". He [seemed to] have believed the Kerensky government capable of that, despite the fact that such an ideal was never realized, and despite the fact that his Ambassador to Russia kept reporting the mischief of the Bolsheviks. Wilson, too, was a subscriber to the idealism of the Progressive movement as perhaps was best indicated by the 14 Points program.

Wilson specifically called for, in that program, in Point VI, "a settlement of all questions affecting Russia as will secure the best and freest cooperation of the other nations of the world..." to obtain a chance at self-determination, "political development" and a "national policy" that would allow Russia to join the comity of nations, and that Russia get whatever aid she needed. In Point XIII, Wilson called for "an independent Polish state," that would necessarily occur at the Russian's expense. (89)

Francis, in a series of dispatches to the Secretary of State from 25 August to 6 September, worried a great deal about the possible actions of the Bolsheviks of a revolutionary nature. Francis appeared convinced that the Bolsheviks, having tried in July to topple the Kerensky ministry by armed force, would try again.

Wilson specifically called for, in that program, in Point VI, "a settlement of all questions affecting Russia as will secure the best and freest cooperation of the other nations of the world..." to obtain a chance at self-determination, "political development" and a "national policy" that would allow Russia to join the comity of nations, and that Russia get whatever aid she needed. In Point XIII, Wilson called for "an independent Polish state," that would necessarily occur at the Russian's expense.

Francis appeared quite concerned that a revolt was imminent, right up until it happened. He could see it coming, but really had no clear idea what to do about it, ... None of the American leadership appeared to be clear on a course of action to be taken, from Washington to Petrograd.

Also, the pressure of the Allies to keep Russia in the war proved in the end the very thing the American government wanted least, for such provided a force for destabilization, bringing about that which Washington and Francis feared most, the accession of the Bolsheviks. "Thus the demand of the Allies, including the United States, that Russia should renew and reinvigorate her war effort (bluntly expressed by Root in the formula "no fight, no loans") was actually in conflict with the other major aim of American policy toward the [Anti-Bolshevik] Provisional Government [of Kerensky] - namely, that the experiment in constitutional government should proceed sucessfully.

On 28 September, Robert Lansing, the Secretary of State of the US, wrote to Francis that Washington's information was indicating "that conditions there have been growing steadily worse until there exists to-day a condition of what one would call anarchy."

Francis cabled Washington 27 October that the Bolsheviks plan an "outbreak" on 2 November, that they will have "assistance" from the Kronstadt military base, and that the first thing the rebels will do is "arrest" the Provisional Government.

On 24-25 October, O.S, 7-8 November (N.S.) the Bolshevik seizure of power in Petrograd began. "In the name of the Military Revolutionary Committee Trotsky had declared that the Provisional Government no longer existed."

The Bolsheviks consolidated their power after some internal fighting and announce formally through the Foreign Ministry over Trotsky's signature to the Allied Ambassadors on 22 November that Lenin is the chairman of the new government organized 8 November, and proposed an "armistice on all fronts and the immediate opening of peace negotiations..."

Consul General Madden Summers in Moscow offered, in a letter to Francis 24 November, some insights to the question, "Why did the Kerensky government fail?" He wrote some incisive remarks to the critical issue of character in the letter as to what had happened in Moscow during the October Revolution, criticizing heavily the American Red Cross, who he alleged were "annoying" in their attempts to get out of town "before anybody else," but he did not touch on the real upset he had with the Red Cross, and more specifically Robins. That was that Robins did not play by the diplomatic rules in his hobnobbing with the Bolsheviks, and was not controllable by normal channels of command.

On 28 November, Trotsky notifies the Allied governments that he will be having preliminary meetings with Germany on the peace, and hostilities on the Russian front with the Germans had ceased.

On 15 December, German-Soviet negotiations, which had actually been inaugerated in Brest-Litovsk on December 3, were finally brought to an end by the signing of an armistice agreement. ... Trotsky had officially communicated these terms to the Allied governments in a note dated December 6) and delivered that same day in Petrograd.

[Red Cross official] Robins asked to cable, and then did cable [Red Cross official; also of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 1914 to 1919] Colonel Thompson in New York City 23 January saying "Soviet Government stronger to-day than ever before. ... Cannot too strongly urge importance of prompt recognition of Bolshevik authority and immediate establishment of modus vivendi making possible generous and sympathetic co-operation.

[Soviet/Bolshevik] Russia repudiated its foreign debts on 8 February, and formally removed itself from [WWI] 10 February. ... Robins met with Lenin about the possibility of getting aid from the Americans for the Soviets [February 13]. ... On 14 February, the Gregorian calender was adopted in Russia. On the 15th, Robins cabled Thompson in New York with a long analysis of the current situation, urging "Great values for Allied cause in resulting situation dependen[t] on continuance of Bolshevik authority as long as possible." ... the question of intervention loomed large in the considerations of all parties, a debate that went on after Robins left in May, and was acted on from the summer of 1918 to the summer of 1920 [which had] resulted in a limited [military] intervention [September 1918, before the end of WWI; Polar Bear Expedition - Wikipedia Ref. + 4um Ref.] by US and other Allied forces. ... [Robins/Robbins] testified about his role in 1919 [and] returned to Russia in 1933 after recognition finally occurred ... Robins is the correct spelling. The name is consistently spelled "Robbins" in the State Department files. [Cross-referencing sources at 4um Ref., Post #9: The American Red Double Cross]

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2017-02-14   17:59:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Whatever else, they got the debt repudiation right.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2017-02-14   18:28:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Whatever else, they got the debt repudiation right.

At this 4um Ref. (and the linked WORLD WAR I WAR DEBTS source at encyclopedia.com there) it's described more starkly as:

loans to Czarist Russia, for which no hope of collection remained

Whichever way (repudiation and/or uncollectability), the Soviet/Bolsheviks benefited from the cancellation of those debts and probably some amount of their own debt accumulation, too, by their atrocious overthrow of Russia's government and so on but very likely (I suspect, and maybe even by complicit design of their financiers,) at America's expense. Cited below that aforementioned encyclopedia.com source:

Google's cache of https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/apr/11b.htm. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Jan 21, 2017

V. I. Lenin

“Liberty Loan”{1}

(DRAFT RESOLUTION WORKED OUT BY THE BOLSHEVIK GROUP OF THE SOVIET OF WORKERS’ DEPUTIES)

Written on April 11 (24), 1917

Published on April 13, 1917 in Pravda No. 31. Printed from the Pravda text.

Source: Lenin Collected Works, Progress Publishers, 1977, Moscow, Volume 41, pages 399.3-400.1.

Resolution of the Soviet of Workers’ and Soldiers’ Deputies Concerning the 4th “Liberty Loan” [excerpts]

Until political and economic power has passed into the hands of the proletariat and the poor sections of the peasantry, and while the aim of the war is determined by the interests of capital, the workers reject any new loans aimed not for but against Russia’s revolutionary freedom. Recognising at the same time that the supply of the army with all necessities calls for resources, and not wishing to leave their brothers without bread for a single hour, the Soviet of Workers’ and Soldiers’ Deputies believes that the cost of the capitalist war should be borne by the capitalists who have reaped and continue to reap billions of rubles in profits on this war, and insists that the necessary money should come exclusively from the pockets of the bourgeoisie and the landowners.

Notes

{1} ... At the Soviet’s Plenary Meeting, 2,000 deputies voted for the loan and 123 against. p. 399

3. Wikipedia: Liberty bond/loan | Liberty Bond Issues, 1917–1918 | Default of the Fourth Liberty Bond

Fast-forward to present-day America and that long-ago defaulted Fourth Liberty Bond is still being circuitously maneuvered to misdirect some of our nation's Patriots. Examples at article: The United States Isn't a Country — It's a Corporation! + counter-research at 4um Ref., Posts #14 and #15 et al linked sources re: that WWI Liberty Bond Default and the alleged Strawman Security Agreement/"Redemption Movement". Among the various 4um discussions - here and here - this SCOTUS case was referenced: Perry v United States, 294 US 330 (1935) regarding the WWI-era Liberty Bond Default and the Congressional legislation HJR-192 pertaining to it, which was at issue and ruled as unconstitutional. I haven't researched it much further than that point as yet for Justice opinions of dissent and such. Eventually, though, I hope to get an answer to the question I asked: Might FRNs (Federal Reserve Notes) as "legal tender" have been ruled Unconstitutional by SCOTUS when the legislation in question was?

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2017-02-14   23:39:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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