4um: Turtle Tries to Time Travel. Didn't Worrk

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Title: Turtle Tries to Time Travel. Didn't Worrk
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Published: Mar 16, 2012
Author: Turtle
Post Date: 2012-03-16 15:49:09 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 306
Comments: 20

I have decided time travel will not work. Let’s say you jump one hour into the future. The earth will have moved, as will have the solar system around the galaxy, and for that matter, the galaxy itself. You’d materialize in space.
The same would happen going into the past.
As fun as it is to engage in thought experiments in which you meet dinosaurs, or Morlocks and Eloi, in reality it can’t happen.
As I’ve pointed out before, teleportation or those Star Trek transporters, wouldn’t work. If you were beamed down on the equator you’d end up a red streak since the earth is spinning about 1000 miles an hour.
It appears this space-time continuum stuff prevents us from teleportation or time travel. It’s too bad.
Still, there’s always those Stargates. I hope they work.
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#1. To: Turtle (#0)
I have decided time travel will not work.

Quitter!!!
Ab just zipped back in time to have a chit chat with Faulkner. He said, "Clocks slay time... time is dead as long as it is being clicked off by little wheels; only when the clock stops does time come to life."
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
abraxas posted on 2012-03-16 16:01:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: abraxas (#1)
"Clocks slay time... time is dead as long as it is being clicked off by little wheels; only when the clock stops does time come to life."

Can I have a hit of what you're smoking? Pretty please with sugar on top?
"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle
Turtle posted on 2012-03-16 16:02:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: Turtle (#2)
“That's just how time travel looks like to the untrained eye. The reason why there aren't more travelers is that your average physicist refuses to be eaten by a giraffe in the name of science.” ― Bradley Sands, It Came from Below the Belt
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
abraxas posted on 2012-03-16 16:14:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: abraxas (#3)
Bradley Sands

Uh huh...now I understand.
"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle
Turtle posted on 2012-03-16 16:30:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: Turtle (#0)
Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.

Anyone offended by this post, click here.
"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion." -Albert Camus.

Armadillo posted on 2012-03-16 18:59:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: Turtle (#0)
As I’ve pointed out before, teleportation or those Star Trek transporters, wouldn’t work. If you were beamed down on the equator you’d end up a red streak since the earth is spinning about 1000 miles an hour.

Not if you entered a geosynchronous orbit.

Shatner: 1
Turtle: 0

TooConservative posted on 2012-03-16 19:02:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: Turtle (#4)
Physicists often quote from T. H. White's epic novel The Once and Future King, where a society of ants declares, “Everything not forbidden is compulsory.” In other words, if there isn't a basic principle of physics forbidding time travel, then time travel is necessarily a physical possibility. (The reason for this is the uncertainty principle. Unless something is forbidden, quantum effects and fluctuations will eventually make it possible if we wait long enough. Thus, unless there is a law forbidding it, it will eventually occur.) — Michio Kaku
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
abraxas posted on 2012-03-16 19:02:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: TooConservative, Turtle (#6)
As I’ve pointed out before, teleportation or those Star Trek transporters, wouldn’t work. If you were beamed down on the equator you’d end up a red streak since the earth is spinning about 1000 miles an hour.

Not if you entered a geosynchronous orbit.

Shatner: 1
Turtle: 0

Actually if the transporter can adjust for rotation so as to put down the transportees with the same angular moment of the planet's surface then it can be done by the computer controlling the transport beam.
The real problem with the transporter is the philosophical problem i.e., if man is a spirit who is dimensionless then the body gets transported but the entity, you, which imbues it with sentience gets left behind since it is a dimensionless static and thus supremely oblivious to the transporter mechanism.
Perseverent Gardener"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2012-03-16 19:22:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: abraxas (#7)
Physicists often quote from T. H. White's epic novel The Once and Future King, where a society of ants declares, “Everything not forbidden is compulsory.” In other words, if there isn't a basic principle of physics forbidding time travel, then time travel is necessarily a physical possibility. (The reason for this is the uncertainty principle. Unless something is forbidden, quantum effects and fluctuations will eventually make it possible if we wait long enough. Thus, unless there is a law forbidding it, it will eventually occur.) — Michio Kaku

Assuming of course that quantum physics is valid and that it is not just another theoretical approximation of reality i.e., it is workable, but only up to a point.
It is like Einstein - the theory of Relativity postulated the speed of light as an absolute limiting velocity and we are now learning that may well not be the case. It may only be the "speed of light".
As for time - physics is still unable to explain it in the context of physical phenomena. Time is a consideration of sentience in observing change and it change which defines time, but how do you quantify a change in physical position in terms of sentient consideration and awareness? And then how do you manipulate that in the context of motion or change of reference point in space to a set of perceptions which no longer pertain?
Perseverent Gardener"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Original_Intent posted on 2012-03-16 19:28:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: Turtle, TooConservative, abraxas, Original_Intent, Armadillo (#0)
I can't time travel, but I can make this beagle fly like an eagle:

“With the exception of Whites, the rule among the peoples of the world, whether residing in their homelands or settled in Western democracies, is ethnocentrism and moral particularism: they stick together and good means what is good for their ethnic group."
-Alex Kurtagic
X-15 posted on 2012-03-16 20:21:46 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: Original_Intent (#9)
not just another theoretical approximation of reality
postulated the speed of light as an absolute
physics is still unable to explain it in the context of physical phenomena.

Yet, this is what we have, have had and always will have due to the observer principle. There is no fixed theory of reality, although there is some communal or shared reality. What assumptions that quantum physics are not valid are you proposing?
Light is both a particle and a wave, actually simultaneously, but dependent upon the observer. So, at any given time the "reality" is that light is a wave or an alternate reality that it is a particle. This is the essential crux of understanding quantum mechanics. That there is no fixed reality.
Einstein's theory sets a fix up on the speed of light while maintaining that all else is relative, including time and space. According to Einstein theory, there is no absolute privileged frame of reference. Hence, relativity births quantum mechanics despite Einstein's desires to put it back in a box.
Physics does a fine job albeit not fixed or set, your beef is actually epistemological and philosophical. Sentient consideration and awareness is in a constant state of flux as are our notions of time and has a great distance to travel to catch up to quantum mechanics. Luckily, Buddhists have been doing this philosophical consideration for centuries.
The Buddhists have three perspectives to your paradoxical questions. Recall that Buddhism is based on the philosophy of emptiness and in this way it challenges the limits of human knowledge in the same way that physics does. Both ask the big question: How do humans conceptualize and understand reality coherently? Both reject the long held supposition that reality is composed of matter and what we filter through our senses. Humans tend to view reality through the lens of matter or what is tenable and we do the same to understand time, thus we do not consider a web of dependently originating and interconnected realities. Consider the first perspective Newtonian and the latter Quantum.
The Buddhists realists believe that the material world is composed of indivisible particles that have objective reality independent of the mind.
The Buddhist idealists reject any degree of objective reality in the external world as they view all that is the external world as an extension of the mind.
The Prasangika school does not deny the reality of the external world but understands it to be relative and contingent upon our shared concepts. This one is closest to the notion that matter cannot be objectively described apart from the observer as matter and mind are co-dependent.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
abraxas posted on 2012-03-16 21:16:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Turtle (#0)
Try holding back the hands of time....they will rip your arms out of their sockets and you could'nt submit this stuff on Christine's wonderful website. Unless of course you used another appendage but that of course depends on the angle of your dangle. LOL

john stadtmiller posted on 2012-03-16 21:47:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Armadillo (#5)
it must be thursday, I never could get the hang of thursdays.
If either Moromney or Mammyjammyobammy win the November (s)election peoples with common sense will pray that December 21 2012 will indeed be the end of the world!
IRTorqued posted on 2012-03-16 22:41:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: john stadtmiller (#12)
Try holding back the hands of time....they will rip your arms out of their sockets

Exactly. 'Tis much better to keep track of time in an elegant fashion:

“With the exception of Whites, the rule among the peoples of the world, whether residing in their homelands or settled in Western democracies, is ethnocentrism and moral particularism: they stick together and good means what is good for their ethnic group."
-Alex Kurtagic
X-15 posted on 2012-03-16 23:07:52 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: X-15 (#14)
I have a Seiko I've had for 25 years. All I've had to do is replace the stem which finally came out.
"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle
Turtle posted on 2012-03-17 12:35:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: TooConservative (#6)
Shatner: 1
Turtle: 0

Turtle: 1
Shatner: - 1,000,000,000
"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle
Turtle posted on 2012-03-17 13:14:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: X-15 (#10)

"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle
Turtle posted on 2012-03-17 13:21:35 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: Turtle (#0)
I have decided time travel will not work. Let’s say you jump one hour into the future. The earth will have moved, as will have the solar system around the galaxy, and for that matter, the galaxy itself. You’d materialize in space. The same would happen going into the past.

Wrong. Here is why.
Time travel does not affect the X, Y, or Z coordinates. They remain relative to the Earth. Only the T coordinate changes.
Imagine a statue in a garden. It sits there for 100 years, moving into the future at a rate of 1 second per second. Yet it is unmoving in X,Y,Z directions relative to the Earth.
Of course the Earth is moving at great speed, but the statue is on the Earth therefore its movement is relative to the Earth.
Now imagine a scientist builds a time machine next to this statue.
The scientist turns on the machine and moves into the future at a rate of 1 month per second. Like the statue, he is only moving in the T coordinate. He is motionless in XYZ relative to the Earth, just like the statue.
After 20 minutes he has moved 100 years into the future. He has watched the seasons change and the statue weather with age.
Both the statue and machine have moved with the Earth because they are on it. They were both moving in the temporal direction as well.

Anyone offended by this post, click here.
"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion." -Albert Camus.

Armadillo posted on 2012-06-25 22:40:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: X-15 (#14)
That's a sweet looking watch--yours? I went to their site looking at their watches but couldn't find a price on any of them. Maybe they are like a pillow I saw a guy advertising on an infomercial. He never did say how much they cost, you actually have to order, or at least act like you are going to order one. I didn't order one because the price was 90 bucks.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton
The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken
"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance
Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
James Deffenbach posted on 2012-06-25 23:21:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: abraxas (#7)
“Everything not forbidden is compulsory.”

Sounds pretty much like what the US has turned into.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton
The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken
"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance
Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
James Deffenbach posted on 2012-06-25 23:30:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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