4um: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic

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Title: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic
Source: various
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/reada ... gi?ArtNum=149329&Disp=671#C671
Published: Sep 29, 2012
Author: Me and various
Post Date: 2012-09-29 01:19:12 by GreyLmist
Keywords: 9/11, NIST, PBS, CBS
Views: 1502
Comments: 94

Relevant info on this topic is accessible through posts #586 and #671 linked below:
4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done

Post #586 -- videos, links, and details
Post #671 -- WETA/PBS addendum info
Poster Comment:
Tangential discussion starting point [#103] at 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11, if needed for referencing here.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
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#1. To: GreyLmist (#0)
I applaud your efforts.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-29 15:49:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: titorite, GreyLmist (#1)
I applaud your efforts.

I'm sure you would.
So, do the both of you now admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 16:02:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: FormerLurker (#2) (Edited)
DO you admit to being a lying asshole who willingly uses disinformation tactics in an attempt to suppress views counter to your own......I mean you could probably act in a more retarded manner if you tried... but I have trouble imagining it.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-29 16:12:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: titorite (#3) (Edited)
DO you admit to being a lying asshole who willingly uses disinformation tactics in an attempt to suppress views counter to your own......I mean you could probably act in a more retarded manner if you tried... but I have trouble imagining it.

You're the one being a complete shithead here, and you expect others to swallow your accusations?
I simply asked if you're ready to admit that this video is a fraud. Apparently your only recourse to start slinging shit at me.
Projection won't help your argument bud.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 19:54:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: titorite (#3)
So are you trying to say this video is authentic original footage?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 19:56:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: titorite (#3)
What's sort of amusing is that YOU are using not only disinfo tactics to "make your case", you're trying to say that a blatently fraudulent video is bonafide actual footage from 9/11.
It's been proven that it's doctored footage of actual CBS live video, and that the author of the video is misrepresenting it as the real thing which he proceeds to "analyze".
Maybe I should repost that proof in case anyone here missed it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 20:05:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: GreyLmist, titorite, All, *9-11* (#0)
Fake "9/11 Truth" video aptly named "Smoke and Mirrors"

Here's the original footage aired by CBS, which is the source for the doctored Detroit Public TV video which is used by the "Smoke and Mirrors" author.
It starts with a freeze framed view of the aircraft already halfway from the right edge of the screen to the right side of the Empire State Building.

The Detroit Public TV video is doctored to make it appear that the plane comes out of nowhere by looping the first two seconds of video, with the plane erased out of the sky on the first pass.
You can see the splice was done at the 0:02 mark where the smoke plume gets fuzzy and appears to jump. That is exactly where the aircraft "appears out of nowhere".

The doctored footage attempts to hide the splice by restarting the loop on the 2nd pass a few tenths of a second after the start of the first pass, hoping to make the jump in the smoke plume less noticable.
If you look though, it is STILL quite noticable, as the smoke jumps backwards right at the same time the aircraft "appears out of nowhere".
Next, at 00:39 into the video it asks, "Why was the camera aimed slightly to the right of the Empire State Building instead of at the burning WTC?". It adds the comment, "A perfect position to catch the arrival of the 2nd plane".
Thing is, the author of the doctored footage CROPPED the original CBS video to make it LOOK that way, whereas the original footage is a wide view of Lower Manhatten taken from north of the Empire State Building, with the WTC centered in the frame.
Continuing the analysis of the "Smoke and Mirrors" extended video, it states at the 1:29 mark that, "This is about the impact that was not shown". The original footage sure DID show that impact, but of course the author of "Smoke and Mirrors" would have his audience believe that his statement is beyond reproach.
And of course, at 1:41 into the video, he shows the doctored version of the impact and the smoke plume from the North Tower, which was obviously edited from the original CBS footage to make it look as it does. It was done by erasing the smoke plume, copying a part of it, then cutting and pasting it in expanding sequences to recreate a fake plume.
The "Smoke and Mirrors" author then goes on to show at 7:38 the actual CBS footage, which apparently he remembered DID exist, but claims it is a different clip of what he just spent minute upon minute "analyzing".
For anyone to try to defend this obvious and blatent fraud indicates they are more interested in perpetuating a lie, than revealing any sort of truth.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 20:30:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: FormerLurker (#6)
What's sort of amusing is that YOU are using not only disinfo tactics to "make your case", you're trying to say that a blatently fraudulent video is bonafide actual footage from 9/11.

It is not sort of amusing. You are spamming off peoples words because you are Using disinformation tactics.

Let everyone judge your deceptions
vigilantcitizen.com/lates...-rules-of-disinformation/

You are using those rules verbatim by the text book and you are attempting to suppress views counter to your own, only because you refuse to believe what is pointed out in front of you... I mean the size of your denial is HUGE over shadowed only be your willingness to attempt to deceive others.

I don't have to quote the same post four times to address you former lurker. I don't need to spam your words to the back pages so that no body can read them. Thats bad netiqute.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-30 15:25:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#0) (Edited)
This is an addendum for references on an additional documentary circa 2003 (Ref. web.archive.org: 911conspiracy.tv - 2nd WTC Attack Videos - CBS3: "The Center of the World - New York: A Documentary Film" | PBS, Lisa Ades, Ric Burns, and David Ogden Stiers, narrator) that is said to be the origin of the now unavailable Detroit Public TV documentary footage (referenced at the start of the Smoke and Mirrors long- version video with the Detroit Public TV logo and also in the 8-sec. US Department of Commerce/NIST video with the WETA logo for Washington D.C. PBS; Ref. Posts #586 and #671).
In comparison to the Smoke and Mirrors (long version) PBS footage: All of the original CBS news footage that I've viewed up to this point of the Empire State Building angle likewise shows the plane image as if it appears out of nowhere to the right of the Empire State Building or from behind it, depending on which broadcast segments are being reported/discussed. Also, in all of the available PBS video-clip examples that I've noted above, the screen jumps as if spliced like the Smoke and Mirrors segment does. Neither of these issues (the appearance of the plane image as if out of nowhere and the screen jump as if spliced) should be attributed to tampering by whomever authored the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos at the terrorize.dk site or to Elpiper who posted them at YouTube in May and June of 2008 because they are evidenced in MSM CBS and PBS film of 9/11. The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short-version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example. The copied smoke alteration is debateable as to how and from what source that happened and there could be some interpretive problems with the wording of the comments in the video analyses. It is still my impression as of now, though, from what I can recall of much earlier discussions about this video topic, that the coloration and smoke copying was for dramatic effect by the Media to promote the Iraq war.
At watchdocumentary.com: The biggest source of free documentaries to watch online
Segment 4 at 1:17

New York: A Documentary Film - Episode 08: The Center of the World (1946–2003)

YouTube Playlist by me of the documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World -- 7 videos, duration 1:30:50, go to 1:17 of video #4 for comparisons with the other footage in question.
Description excerpts:

New York: A Documentary Film is an eight-part, 17½ hour, American documentary film on the history of New York City. It was directed by Ric Burns and originally aired in the U.S. on PBS. The film was a co-production of Thirteen New York and WGBH Boston.
The documentary is divided into eight parts: * Episode One: The Country and the City (1609--1825) * Episode Two: Order and Disorder (1825--1865) * Episode Three: Sunshine and Shadow (1865--1898) * Episode Four: The Power and the People (1898--1918) * Episode Five: Cosmopolis (1919--1931) * Episode Six: City of Tomorrow (1929--1941) * Episode Seven: The City and the World (1945--2000) * Episode Eight: The Center of the World (1946--2003)

Additional References:
Film Credits . New York The Center of the World . WGBH American Experience - PBS
freerepublic.com: PBS TV -- The Center of the World (a WTC history)

Edit to insert a PBS notation in paragraph 2.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 5:48:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#9) (Edited)
The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short- version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example.

I think this is the one I was thinking of (note especially at 6:00) and is also reporting by CBS.
WCBS Chopper 2 Reports from 9/11
The Reports from WCBS's Chopper 2 from the World Trade Center Attack on 9/11
Chopper 2 Photographer / Reporter: Jim Smith
Chopper 2 Pilot: Eddie Baker
Anchors: Lisa Hill, Michael Palmerenz

Edit to add another CBS video example for comparisons of darkened coloring (note especially 7:00-8:15).
CBS 9/11 9:02 - 9:12

-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 6:36:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: GreyLmist (#10)
9/11 War Crimes Tribunal expected to issue Indictments of Accused in 9/11 events on January 22, 2013
www.911warcrimestribunal.org/

Itistoolate posted on 2012-10-01 6:50:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Itistoolate (#11)
9/11 War Crimes Tribunal expected to issue Indictments of Accused in 9/11 events on January 22, 2013
www.911warcrimestribunal.org/

Wow. Thanks for posting that news. Like an article comment said -- which I posted at your topic, Let US start a thread on WHO Did 911 -- the official 9/11 storylines wouldn't even have to be pronounced yet by the court as bogus before Rudy Guiliani could be charged with destruction of the evidence.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 8:08:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: FormerLurker (#6) (Edited)
You're misrepresenting what people have said and have been told numerous times that it's doctored/altered footage. What you've posted hasn't proven what you've accused, imo. I haven't seen anyone on the web as fixated on this matter as you've been. Please review the references here and try to transition some from embattling mode to a bit more conversant mode.
Edited sentence 2.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 8:41:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: GreyLmist (#13)
What you've posted hasn't proven what you've accused, imo. I haven't seen anyone on the web as fixated on this matter as you've been

Huh? Are you that dense that you can't understand the Smoke and Mirrors video is a complete fraud? What part of the analysis do you fail to understand?
And who's the one that keeps posting it, and who's the one that created this thread?
Don't you think there are better avenues to approach the 9/11 subject with rather than beating a dead horse? This no planes topic is right up there with the Loch Ness monster and Sasquatch in terms of credibility. Well no actually, those two subjects might actually have SOME basis in fact.
What it comes down to GL, is that beyond your "feelings", there is ZERO evidence indicating what you allege. There are no inconsistencies in the original video from that day in terms of aircraft flying into the WTC towers and resulting damage.
Additionally, there are NO witnesses to the events of that day which state NO PLANE hit the tower(s), if they were looking at the towers from a vantage point where they would have or should have seen it as it happened.
There ARE some serious questions as to why and how the towers collapsed. But the level of cognitive dissonance required to accept what you're peddling is beyond what a reasonable or rational person would possess.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 10:55:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: GreyLmist (#9)
The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short-version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example.

Pure BS. The video footage used in the Smoke and Mirrors video is doctored CBS video footage, darkened and color adjusted to make it look different to the casual viewer. It is the same exact video other than being cropped, doctored, and color adjusted.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 11:00:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: GreyLmist (#9)
One more thing GL. Being that apparently the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is the "best" evidence you can drag off the net in terms of supporting your theory, it should be clear that your theory doesn't hold water.
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate. Being that at least I know that this video is a complete fraud, you're never going to convince me of what you're peddling, although I'm sure you'll be tap dancing all over the forum trying to convince others that it's bonafide evidence.
Yep, it's bonafide evidence alright. Evidence that someone released a doctored video to PBS stations for broadcast, and then others either out of malice or ignorance decided that it's "evidence" of the "no planes" theory.
Since the author of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video claims expertise, and he even includes the source CBS footage in his extended video, it's apparent that he's not doing it out of ignorance.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 11:08:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: titorite (#8)
I think the bozo list is the best place for you. See ya bozo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 12:02:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: FormerLurker (#16) (Edited)
The Smoke and Mirrors videos have never been a No Planes presentation by me or anyone else here in these discussions that I know of, except in your imagination. They are a Media Fakery issue that arose simply as a smoke direction anomaly example. I started this thread as a research center convenience on the issues because or your misinterpretations and besiegings through hundreds of posts that were spanning two other topics, despite all attempts to explain the matter.
The plane out of nowhere appearance is from CBS footage. The splice jump is from PBS footage which used the CBS footage and the NIST footage shows that too. There are numerous examples of MSM footage on the web with comparatively dark coloration of WTC scenes. The PBS documentary footage that I posted at #9 is full of darkened coloration of WTC scenes. Reference watchdocumentary.com: New York A Documentary Film - Episode 08 The Center of the World (1946–2003) and the YouTube Playlist: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World; See segment 4 of the watchdocumentary.com film at 1:17 and video #4 at 1:17 of the YouTube Playlist for comparison to the NIST clip at Post #586 listed above and other PBS footage examples in question regarding this topic.
This is a link for the webarchive of the terrorize.dk page in question. It is a vast 9/11 archive and other pages are accessible through the links there. This is a link that I've found to be currently active for the terrorize.dk page in question. At both of those pages, there are two Video: links that I can't access for some reason but you could try to or search for elsewhere, each titled: 911.wtc.2.hit.north.01.wmv
Here is a link to the active Contact page for terrorize.dk. I suggest that you ask them for an explanation since mine have been to no avail with you. As you know, the Detroit Public Television documentary is not available and that was what they were trying to analyze -- without any lines inserted that I can see, like the Smoke and Mirrors videos have. The first set of examples show a smoke anomaly that is said to be viewable for 60 frames/2 seconds. Compare that to the documentary footage linked twice above at the 1:17 mark [Edit to add: and shown in other reference examples]. The second set of examples at terrorize.dk show the smoke copy footage but, evidently, it is only analyed there and at the web.archive.org page for terrorize.dk as "the aircraft's real entrance". Your complaints about the analysis there are misplaced, imo, afaik.
With the Detroit Public Television documentary footage no longer being available, you have no evidence to accuse the terrorize.dk site or the poster of the Smoke and Mirrors videos, Elpiper, of faking the smoke and explosion mirroring issue. At most, Elpiper might be criticized for mistaking the DPTV documentary footage with the anomalous smoke-copy/mirroring as footage originally aired on 9/11 rather than a Media-alteration later for the Detroit documentary, probably as Iraq War propaganda. If you wanted to contact Elpiper with your accusations, I think you could do that at the YouTube video locations. As far as I can tell, they simply questioned more about the footage than was critiqued at the terrorize.dk page and posted videos for inspection of their views. Even though the Smoke and Mirrors videos were an imperfect analysis, they don't give me the impression that they were intentionally misleading as you have. It is an open analysis available for public scrutiny and rebuttal. Human error in open investigations isn't unusual or categorically nefarious but your relentless and speculative insistance of malintent is vengefully suspicious.
Will address your other comments next.
Edited to reword last sentence of 1st and 2nd paragraphs + bracketed insert at paragraph 4.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:02:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#16) (Edited)
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.

I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Edited sentence 1.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:42:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#14)
This no planes topic is right up there with the Loch Ness monster and Sasquatch in terms of credibility. Well no actually, those two subjects might actually have SOME basis in fact.
What it comes down to GL, is that beyond your "feelings", there is ZERO evidence indicating what you allege. There are no inconsistencies in the original video from that day in terms of aircraft flying into the WTC towers and resulting damage.
Additionally, there are NO witnesses to the events of that day which state NO PLANE hit the tower(s), if they were looking at the towers from a vantage point where they would have or should have seen it as it happened.

It is your remote control sector that has been telling us a storied rendition for over a decade with no actual evidence. Will address the witnesses issue you raised later. For now, there was a reporter named Don Dahler interviewed "as it happened" who said he saw no plane, just an explosion. That is certainly not the only example. Will get back to you with more examples and references asap.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:53:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: FormerLurker (#17)
I think the bozo list is the best place for you. See ya bozo.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/lates...-rules-of-disinformation/
HOW TO DECEIVE WITH DISINFORMATION TACTICS
25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.

The last tactics.... When too much pressure of truth is applied the deceiver can always take his ball and go home so to speak. Here Former Lurker has choosen to invoke his right of bozoing because he has an agenda to push and he has placed that agenda above the truth.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

"When all other possibilities have removed the result, no matter how unlikely, must be correct" |
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 16:19:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: GreyLmist (#18)
The Smoke and Mirrors videos have never been a No Planes presentation by me or anyone else here in these discussions that I know of, except in your imagination.
Uh huh. Take that up with your little friend titorite, he seems to feel differently about it than you.
With the Detroit Public Television documentary footage no longer being available, you have no evidence to accuse the terrorize.dk site or the poster of the Smoke and Mirrors videos, Elpiper, of faking the smoke and explosion mirroring issue.
My what a twisted web you weave. I had at first thought the alteration was done by the terrorize.dk owner, but once it became clear that the author of that site was saying the same thing I was pointing out in how that video had been altered to make it LOOK fake, it became clear that he was not the author of the alterations.
It is ALSO clear however that the "Smoke and Mirrors" author misrepresented the footage as original live footage from 9/11, and "analyzes" it in a way to "prove" that the plane "came from nowhere" and that the smoke plume was "fake".
Since you appear to be trying to vouch for his "honesty", I place about as much credence in anything you say as I do with him.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:41:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Oops.
MD-90??
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-10-04 19:44:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Without even looking at it, I'd say since PBS appears to be fond of airing doctored 9/11 footage, I'd place as much faith in it as the "plane from nowhere" footage and the "fake smoke plume" in the other footage you're so head over heals over.
Find some ORIGINAL footage from 9/11 if you want to try to point out abnormalities.
Also, can you give us a brief rundown what YOU think happened on 9/11? Were there ever any planes, did anything crash into the towers, were there smoke plumes, that sort of stuff.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:45:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: GreyLmist (#20)
It is your remote control sector that has been telling us a storied rendition for over a decade with no actual evidence.
There is evidence planes hit the towers. The "19 arabs", some of whom are still alive, could not have flown those planes as they were flown.
So if the planes weren't flown by them, who DID fly them?
Remote control is QUITE possible, feasible, and plausible.

Is that why you're trying to "debunk" it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:48:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: GreyLmist (#20)
For now, there was a reporter named Don Dahler interviewed "as it happened" who said he saw no plane, just an explosion. That is certainly not the only example.

Uh huh. Was he one who could not see the approach and impact because he was on the opposite side of the tower? There were of course people whose vision was obscured, are you using THOSE people as your "proof"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:49:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: GreyLmist (#18)
You have a way of using a lot of words to say very little. Sort of like Mitt Romney. Any relation?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:51:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

For one, it's the wrong type of plane. For two, it is not in motion so it could be a "dramatization". And for three, as I said earlier, PBS has already aired doctored 9/11 footage, so I wouldn't place all my eggs in that basket if I were you GL.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:54:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: titorite (#21)
I read your BS when I read 4um without being signed in.
So let me ask you this ONE MORE TIME.
Do you admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud? OR, do you feel that it is bonafide evidence of the "no planes" theory?
Stop your tap dancing and accusations and answer the question. I'd be surprised if you do, since it seems the chances of YOU being a shillster here on this forum are quite high, as you're able to do "controlled opposition" to a tee, yet attack those presenting plausible and workable ideas and theories in regards to what may have happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
The "no planes theory" is quite implausibile, and if you could discuss it rationally, and if you had any intelligence at all, you'd come to the same realization.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 20:46:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: FormerLurker (#29)
So much for filters. Maybe you should focus more on keeping your own word with yourself before you begin to interact with others.

BTW the atrocious amount of repetitive replies is seriously unnecessary. You can use your edit button just as most others do... rather than replying over and over and over to the same posts effectively achieving your goal of spamming off the words you don't want shared.
You volunteer for the cointel services way too easily .
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 21:19:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: GreyLmist (#19)
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.
I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?
Edited sentence 1.

THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!

The devil of the details... It took me a moment but I saw what you pointed out...

People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?
Look again at the video.

And ask yourself why they are using images of fake planes? and How much of the footage was fake planes.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 21:31:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: titorite (#30)
Again, instead of spewing nonsense, why don't you answer the two simple questions below;
A) Do you admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud?

B) Do you believe that it is bonafide evidence of the "no planes" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 21:35:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: titorite, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#31)
THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!
..... tap dancing ......
People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?

As far as that PBS video, just as I thought. You're going to use that as "no planes" evidence. For one, not only is that NOT a clip from 9/11, it is either a dramatized image or a doctored one, PBS has ALREADY aired doctored footage from SOMEONE, who exactly isn't quite clear yet.
I find it an odd coincidence that you're bringing this stuff up on the net right about the same time PBS is airing the Architects for 9/11 Truth video. A guilt by association sort of thing, isn't it tit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 21:39:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: FormerLurker (#33) (Edited)
I find it revealing that your logic does not apply to yourself.
I mean you are being shown the inconsistent images... The images from the mainstream images you can get from their websites in their caches with the same flaws of the conspirators still left in ....
And yet you refuse to accept the truth in front of your eyes.

STOP LETTING ANTIQUE PROPAGANDA CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS!

WTF is PBS in on the no plane theory too?!?! They made that vid just to get to you? is that it? Is that what you think?! That everything in the world revolves around you and your internet pronouncements of what is fact and what is not? Get real man.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 22:11:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: titorite (#34)
Can you answer a simple question without your bullshit, yes, or no?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 2:45:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: titorite. christine, Lod, All, *9-11* (#34)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
Let me ask you this ONE more time.
Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 2:49:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: FormerLurker, titorite (#27)
You have a way of using a lot of words to say very little.

You have a way of using a lot of posts to do nothing much but berate and inject interference. Who's head over heals about the Smoke and Mirrors topic? You, obviously. I told you I wanted to move on from that to more important things but you refuse and continue your onslaughts, demanding answers and not providing any to speak of. Who do you think you are? You act like a gila monster.
bbl
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-05 6:40:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: FormerLurker (#36)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
Let me ask you this ONE more time.
Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?

No , you are just acting like a dick head.
Your questions have been answered , fuck you for dragging my friends into this you piece of shit. They have no reference here. They have not been following the conversation of your trolling fucking antics.
I hope you get a virus today you fuck stain.
I mean bother me all you want but leave others that have nothing to do with this OUT OF THIS .... fucking jack boot thug
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-05 7:19:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: titorite, christine, Lod (#38)
So I guess it's official, you ARE a shill. It's quite apparent that you have no intent of having a civil discussion concerning this, you're only here to harrass and disrupt the forum with your antics.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:40:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: GreyLmist (#37)
And you. I HAVE commented on the PBS footage you posted. Are YOU trying to claim that image is a screen capture from 9/11?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:41:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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