4um: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic

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Title: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic
Source: various
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/reada ... gi?ArtNum=149329&Disp=671#C671
Published: Sep 29, 2012
Author: Me and various
Post Date: 2012-09-29 01:19:12 by GreyLmist
Keywords: 9/11, NIST, PBS, CBS
Views: 1638
Comments: 94

Relevant info on this topic is accessible through posts #586 and #671 linked below:
4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done

Post #586 -- videos, links, and details
Post #671 -- WETA/PBS addendum info
Poster Comment:
Tangential discussion starting point [#103] at 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11, if needed for referencing here.
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#17. To: titorite (#8)
I think the bozo list is the best place for you. See ya bozo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 12:02:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: FormerLurker (#16) (Edited)
The Smoke and Mirrors videos have never been a No Planes presentation by me or anyone else here in these discussions that I know of, except in your imagination. They are a Media Fakery issue that arose simply as a smoke direction anomaly example. I started this thread as a research center convenience on the issues because or your misinterpretations and besiegings through hundreds of posts that were spanning two other topics, despite all attempts to explain the matter.
The plane out of nowhere appearance is from CBS footage. The splice jump is from PBS footage which used the CBS footage and the NIST footage shows that too. There are numerous examples of MSM footage on the web with comparatively dark coloration of WTC scenes. The PBS documentary footage that I posted at #9 is full of darkened coloration of WTC scenes. Reference watchdocumentary.com: New York A Documentary Film - Episode 08 The Center of the World (1946–2003) and the YouTube Playlist: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World; See segment 4 of the watchdocumentary.com film at 1:17 and video #4 at 1:17 of the YouTube Playlist for comparison to the NIST clip at Post #586 listed above and other PBS footage examples in question regarding this topic.
This is a link for the webarchive of the terrorize.dk page in question. It is a vast 9/11 archive and other pages are accessible through the links there. This is a link that I've found to be currently active for the terrorize.dk page in question. At both of those pages, there are two Video: links that I can't access for some reason but you could try to or search for elsewhere, each titled: 911.wtc.2.hit.north.01.wmv
Here is a link to the active Contact page for terrorize.dk. I suggest that you ask them for an explanation since mine have been to no avail with you. As you know, the Detroit Public Television documentary is not available and that was what they were trying to analyze -- without any lines inserted that I can see, like the Smoke and Mirrors videos have. The first set of examples show a smoke anomaly that is said to be viewable for 60 frames/2 seconds. Compare that to the documentary footage linked twice above at the 1:17 mark [Edit to add: and shown in other reference examples]. The second set of examples at terrorize.dk show the smoke copy footage but, evidently, it is only analyed there and at the web.archive.org page for terrorize.dk as "the aircraft's real entrance". Your complaints about the analysis there are misplaced, imo, afaik.
With the Detroit Public Television documentary footage no longer being available, you have no evidence to accuse the terrorize.dk site or the poster of the Smoke and Mirrors videos, Elpiper, of faking the smoke and explosion mirroring issue. At most, Elpiper might be criticized for mistaking the DPTV documentary footage with the anomalous smoke-copy/mirroring as footage originally aired on 9/11 rather than a Media-alteration later for the Detroit documentary, probably as Iraq War propaganda. If you wanted to contact Elpiper with your accusations, I think you could do that at the YouTube video locations. As far as I can tell, they simply questioned more about the footage than was critiqued at the terrorize.dk page and posted videos for inspection of their views. Even though the Smoke and Mirrors videos were an imperfect analysis, they don't give me the impression that they were intentionally misleading as you have. It is an open analysis available for public scrutiny and rebuttal. Human error in open investigations isn't unusual or categorically nefarious but your relentless and speculative insistance of malintent is vengefully suspicious.
Will address your other comments next.
Edited to reword last sentence of 1st and 2nd paragraphs + bracketed insert at paragraph 4.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:02:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#16) (Edited)
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.

I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Edited sentence 1.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:42:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#14)
This no planes topic is right up there with the Loch Ness monster and Sasquatch in terms of credibility. Well no actually, those two subjects might actually have SOME basis in fact.
What it comes down to GL, is that beyond your "feelings", there is ZERO evidence indicating what you allege. There are no inconsistencies in the original video from that day in terms of aircraft flying into the WTC towers and resulting damage.
Additionally, there are NO witnesses to the events of that day which state NO PLANE hit the tower(s), if they were looking at the towers from a vantage point where they would have or should have seen it as it happened.

It is your remote control sector that has been telling us a storied rendition for over a decade with no actual evidence. Will address the witnesses issue you raised later. For now, there was a reporter named Don Dahler interviewed "as it happened" who said he saw no plane, just an explosion. That is certainly not the only example. Will get back to you with more examples and references asap.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:53:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: FormerLurker (#17)
I think the bozo list is the best place for you. See ya bozo.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/lates...-rules-of-disinformation/
HOW TO DECEIVE WITH DISINFORMATION TACTICS
25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.

The last tactics.... When too much pressure of truth is applied the deceiver can always take his ball and go home so to speak. Here Former Lurker has choosen to invoke his right of bozoing because he has an agenda to push and he has placed that agenda above the truth.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

"When all other possibilities have removed the result, no matter how unlikely, must be correct" |
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 16:19:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: GreyLmist (#18)
The Smoke and Mirrors videos have never been a No Planes presentation by me or anyone else here in these discussions that I know of, except in your imagination.
Uh huh. Take that up with your little friend titorite, he seems to feel differently about it than you.
With the Detroit Public Television documentary footage no longer being available, you have no evidence to accuse the terrorize.dk site or the poster of the Smoke and Mirrors videos, Elpiper, of faking the smoke and explosion mirroring issue.
My what a twisted web you weave. I had at first thought the alteration was done by the terrorize.dk owner, but once it became clear that the author of that site was saying the same thing I was pointing out in how that video had been altered to make it LOOK fake, it became clear that he was not the author of the alterations.
It is ALSO clear however that the "Smoke and Mirrors" author misrepresented the footage as original live footage from 9/11, and "analyzes" it in a way to "prove" that the plane "came from nowhere" and that the smoke plume was "fake".
Since you appear to be trying to vouch for his "honesty", I place about as much credence in anything you say as I do with him.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:41:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Oops.
MD-90??
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-10-04 19:44:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Without even looking at it, I'd say since PBS appears to be fond of airing doctored 9/11 footage, I'd place as much faith in it as the "plane from nowhere" footage and the "fake smoke plume" in the other footage you're so head over heals over.
Find some ORIGINAL footage from 9/11 if you want to try to point out abnormalities.
Also, can you give us a brief rundown what YOU think happened on 9/11? Were there ever any planes, did anything crash into the towers, were there smoke plumes, that sort of stuff.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:45:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: GreyLmist (#20)
It is your remote control sector that has been telling us a storied rendition for over a decade with no actual evidence.
There is evidence planes hit the towers. The "19 arabs", some of whom are still alive, could not have flown those planes as they were flown.
So if the planes weren't flown by them, who DID fly them?
Remote control is QUITE possible, feasible, and plausible.

Is that why you're trying to "debunk" it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:48:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: GreyLmist (#20)
For now, there was a reporter named Don Dahler interviewed "as it happened" who said he saw no plane, just an explosion. That is certainly not the only example.

Uh huh. Was he one who could not see the approach and impact because he was on the opposite side of the tower? There were of course people whose vision was obscured, are you using THOSE people as your "proof"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:49:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: GreyLmist (#18)
You have a way of using a lot of words to say very little. Sort of like Mitt Romney. Any relation?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:51:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

For one, it's the wrong type of plane. For two, it is not in motion so it could be a "dramatization". And for three, as I said earlier, PBS has already aired doctored 9/11 footage, so I wouldn't place all my eggs in that basket if I were you GL.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:54:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: titorite (#21)
I read your BS when I read 4um without being signed in.
So let me ask you this ONE MORE TIME.
Do you admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud? OR, do you feel that it is bonafide evidence of the "no planes" theory?
Stop your tap dancing and accusations and answer the question. I'd be surprised if you do, since it seems the chances of YOU being a shillster here on this forum are quite high, as you're able to do "controlled opposition" to a tee, yet attack those presenting plausible and workable ideas and theories in regards to what may have happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
The "no planes theory" is quite implausibile, and if you could discuss it rationally, and if you had any intelligence at all, you'd come to the same realization.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 20:46:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: FormerLurker (#29)
So much for filters. Maybe you should focus more on keeping your own word with yourself before you begin to interact with others.

BTW the atrocious amount of repetitive replies is seriously unnecessary. You can use your edit button just as most others do... rather than replying over and over and over to the same posts effectively achieving your goal of spamming off the words you don't want shared.
You volunteer for the cointel services way too easily .
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 21:19:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: GreyLmist (#19)
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.
I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?
Edited sentence 1.

THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!

The devil of the details... It took me a moment but I saw what you pointed out...

People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?
Look again at the video.

And ask yourself why they are using images of fake planes? and How much of the footage was fake planes.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 21:31:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: titorite (#30)
Again, instead of spewing nonsense, why don't you answer the two simple questions below;
A) Do you admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud?

B) Do you believe that it is bonafide evidence of the "no planes" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 21:35:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: titorite, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#31)
THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!
..... tap dancing ......
People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?

As far as that PBS video, just as I thought. You're going to use that as "no planes" evidence. For one, not only is that NOT a clip from 9/11, it is either a dramatized image or a doctored one, PBS has ALREADY aired doctored footage from SOMEONE, who exactly isn't quite clear yet.
I find it an odd coincidence that you're bringing this stuff up on the net right about the same time PBS is airing the Architects for 9/11 Truth video. A guilt by association sort of thing, isn't it tit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 21:39:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: FormerLurker (#33) (Edited)
I find it revealing that your logic does not apply to yourself.
I mean you are being shown the inconsistent images... The images from the mainstream images you can get from their websites in their caches with the same flaws of the conspirators still left in ....
And yet you refuse to accept the truth in front of your eyes.

STOP LETTING ANTIQUE PROPAGANDA CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS!

WTF is PBS in on the no plane theory too?!?! They made that vid just to get to you? is that it? Is that what you think?! That everything in the world revolves around you and your internet pronouncements of what is fact and what is not? Get real man.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 22:11:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: titorite (#34)
Can you answer a simple question without your bullshit, yes, or no?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 2:45:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: titorite. christine, Lod, All, *9-11* (#34)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
Let me ask you this ONE more time.
Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 2:49:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: FormerLurker, titorite (#27)
You have a way of using a lot of words to say very little.

You have a way of using a lot of posts to do nothing much but berate and inject interference. Who's head over heals about the Smoke and Mirrors topic? You, obviously. I told you I wanted to move on from that to more important things but you refuse and continue your onslaughts, demanding answers and not providing any to speak of. Who do you think you are? You act like a gila monster.
bbl
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-05 6:40:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: FormerLurker (#36)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
Let me ask you this ONE more time.
Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?

No , you are just acting like a dick head.
Your questions have been answered , fuck you for dragging my friends into this you piece of shit. They have no reference here. They have not been following the conversation of your trolling fucking antics.
I hope you get a virus today you fuck stain.
I mean bother me all you want but leave others that have nothing to do with this OUT OF THIS .... fucking jack boot thug
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-05 7:19:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: titorite, christine, Lod (#38)
So I guess it's official, you ARE a shill. It's quite apparent that you have no intent of having a civil discussion concerning this, you're only here to harrass and disrupt the forum with your antics.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:40:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: GreyLmist (#37)
And you. I HAVE commented on the PBS footage you posted. Are YOU trying to claim that image is a screen capture from 9/11?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:41:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: GreyLmist (#37)
Who's head over heals about the Smoke and Mirrors topic?

Who posted this thread?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:50:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: FormerLurker (#39)
Shill? Fuck your shill bullshit
Former Lurker you have entered full on scum bag territory when you attempted to drag my friends into this fuck you lying scum bag piece of shit.

What on gods green earth makes you think you are any better then any other scum bag? You attempt to drag innocent people into a conflict they have nothing to do with.

You attempt to use them as an intellectual weapon against me.

Trully you do no service to any truth movement.....

You're worthless lying punk ass is in no better place than pasted to that chair you filth.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-05 16:09:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: titorite (#42)
All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.
Again, just one last try here.
Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 16:28:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: FormerLurker (#43)
You lying sack of shit. You are the one full of accusations and as for obscenities and profanities , you could of done nothing more obscene and profane than to attempt to drag innocent bystanders into this silly troll fest of yours.
Truly you are a scum bag beneath contempt.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-05 17:08:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: titorite (#44)
Fuck, blah blah blah shit, blah blah blah asshole.
See I can talk like you too.
Like I said, it's quite apparent that you have no intention of admitting that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, since you're peddling it as the "real thing".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 17:19:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: randge (#23)
ops.
MD-90??

Dirt Cheap Jumbo Jets.

Just saying.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-10-05 22:57:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: FormerLurker, titorite, *9-11* (#43) (Edited)
All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.
Again, just one last try here.
Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?

9-11 jump-ping to video issue highlighted below.
I'm guessing, FL, that you think you're on some sort of entrapment enforcement mission with your false dichotomy/false dilemma/either-or fallacy hammerings when those aren't even the real choices, much less the only options realistically. You should already know by now that "Neither" would be the actual answer in truth to your Inquisitions about it. Once again, they are a Media Fakery issue with focus on the smoke and explosion anomalies in a Detroit PBS program depicting 9/11, not a No Planes Theory "powerpoint" demo. Being mistaken about when the footage was originally broadcast does not equate to fraud.
As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself. If you can find original CBS footage from that Empire State Building angle which doesn't show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere, post it here for us but I couldn't find any. It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008.
As for your 1st paragraph of spurious aspersions, this was your response to titorite after he posted a Smoke and Mirrors link for you to consider in the anomalous smoke discussion. Ref. 4um Title: How 9/11 Was Done; titorite at Post #350. FL at Post #355: "I dare say if you looked beyond your ass, you'd see that you've been wrong in EVERYTHING you've said,"
This is an example of titorite editing a post to you in an effort of civility:

Ref. Post #123 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Edited for civility.

Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once:
Post #111 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Me: I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.

FL: Are you high? "Little to no smoke damage"? Are you trying to say there were no fires at all, and THAT was faked too?
Do you truly believe what you write?
As far as WTC 1, WTF are you talking about in terms of "insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles"?

I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time:
WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks

Edited sentence 1 for readability formatting.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-05 23:47:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: GreyLmist, all (#47) (Edited)
Originally this was going to be a private reply to GreyLmist about his words said in post 47. After writing it out I thought it better to say it publicly.

Thanks... Yeah.. I mentioned lod and christine a while back in that other thread... only as a means that he might ask some of the real people here if that I am a real person too. I was trying to be more polite in that moment.
Then to see him drop those two names in another thread... and only as a means to get under my skin or maybe..(I really don't wanna think this) or maybe he meant to attempt to turn my friends on me.... Either way that was a sure fire way to push my buttons.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-06 0:15:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: randge, All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#23)
Oops.
MD-90??

A McDonnell Douglas MD-90...yes, it does look like that and Delta Airlines is associated with those aircraft. It's almost like the "Center of the World" PBS documentary was confused about which Flight was said to have hit there and thought maybe it was the Delta 1989 suspected hijack. Can't imagine why they would have used that fake insert for a supposed "dramatization", what with all of the dramatic MSM imagery of alleged United Airlines and American Airlines plane strikes at the WTC that day.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-06 0:31:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: GreyLmist (#47)
It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008.
As I've already said, the PBS video is obviously doctored. The author of "Smoke and Mirrors" however appends the actual CBS source video to his analysis, and claims it is different footage than what he spent the majority of his time analyzing, although in reality it's the ORIGINAL UNALTERED footage.
He implies that the video he is analyzing is unaltered original footage from 9/11, and makes no attempt to present it as a later work. So to me, that is being dishonest at best.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:27:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: GreyLmist (#47) (Edited)
As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself.

You're misrepresenting what that video shows. It does NOT show a "plane appearing out of nowhere", it is a freeze framed image that begins with the plane halfway from the right edge of the frame to the right edge of the Empire State Building. I have NOT seen any original version of that video where the plane actually appears out of "nowhere". The ONLY footage I've seen that shows anything like that is the DOCTORED version as we've discussed here endlessly.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:30:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: GreyLmist (#47)
Edited for civility.
Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once:

Oh yeah, I guess all the gems right here on this thread where such editing didn't take place passed right by you right?
So if I called you an asshole, a pole smoker, a fuck head, etc., etc., etc., and told you to go fuck yourself and die, that'd be ok if I edited one post later on for the purpose of "civility", eh?
Your tactics are already quite obvious here GL. You're the "good cop", and titorite is the "bad cop". You'll try to act as if you're being polite and profesional, whereas your little sidekick will take the opposite approach.
If that's the game you want to play, it only demonstrates what the both of you are really here for.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:36:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: GreyLmist (#47)
I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time:
WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks

Like I said way back in the previous thread, "are you high"?
Are you now trying to claim that the towers didn't really collapse and that they're still there? It was ALL just an illusion that day and nothing at all really happened?
Just because you weren't physically there to fly a helicopter close enough to the WTC and inspect the outside of the tower for dings and scratches, that to you means there was no damage and that it didn't really happen?
Now if WTC 1 hadn't collapsed shortly after the other tower, then perhaps there'd be footage of whatever damage existed from the collapse of WTC 2, but since there was a debris cloud enveloping the area and it wasn't the safest place to be at the time, there isn't much in the way of close up shots of WTC 1 after the first collapse.
But so what? Can you actually say with a straight face that is proof of ANYTHING?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:44:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: GreyLmist, randge (#49)
Can't imagine why they would have used that fake insert for a supposed "dramatization", what with all of the dramatic MSM imagery of alleged United Airlines and American Airlines plane strikes at the WTC that day.

Perhaps it's to get people such as yourself all worked up over it, causing you to bring it up on the net as some sort of proof of your "no planes" theory in order to cause further discord in the 9/11 Truth community, and to discredit anyone who speaks out against the official legend and presents real bonafide evidence by associating those people with "no planers".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:51:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: GreyLmist, titorite (#47) (Edited)
This is what I've observed from the both of you. Neither one of you will pin down exactly what it is you're claiming, although titorite has previously stated that NO planes existed which were identified as hijacked aircraft that morning, and that the entire thing was fabricated.
He will not say one way or the other if he feels that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, but WILL get violently upset if I ask him about it.
You have posted repetitive posts stating the same thing for the past several weeks now, between this thread and the previous thread concerning Israeli Mossad involvement with the attacks, fluctuating between the authenticity of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video (proven to be using fake video, although presented as if it were an analysis of original footage), your claims that the smoke plumes were travelling in different directions (proven to be untrue), and some nebulous comment about "no damage from the collapse of the WTC 2 tower".
And of course, you have also used occasional ad hominem attacks against myself, acting all butt hurt over my responses to you and your pal, who has hurled more profanities and obscenities at not just me but others who disagreed with him, than anyone else I've seen post on this forum.
But between trying to convince people that the smoke plumes were fake, that the planes were fake, that the collapses were fake, all the while overlooking the actual evidence which proves differently, you haven't really stated what YOU think happened.
So what part of the attacks do you think were real, and those parts which were "faked" in your opinion, HOW were they "faked"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 10:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#56. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist (#54)
While the it seems that the Smoke and Mirrors video is compromised as evidence, and while I find the no plane hypothesis hard to digest, I continue to be disconcerted by the images in the video that show WTC swallowing FLT 175 whole like a shark snapping up a guppy.

Above is a shot of the exterior steel columns being built during construction of the Twin Towers. It's hard to believe that we're seeing was what was recorded in multiple video records of the event. It's just a freakin' tragedy that we've never had a real independent national investigation of what ocurred that day, and that we have so many loose ends to tie together.
The more I see, the less things make sense.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-10-06 10:51:06 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#57. To: randge (#56) (Edited)
I continue to be disconcerted by the images in the video that show WTC swallowing FLT 175 whole like a shark snapping up a guppy.

It's a matter of momentum, where a lower mass object moving at a high velocity will penetrate a stationary object of larger mass. Of course the planes were ripped to shreds upon penetrating the WTC towers, but their mass kept moving forwards due to their momentum.
In fact, at least one architect has described the impact as "putting a pencil into a screen door", as the actual exterior was not a solid metal or concrete wall, but rather a series of steel columns with aluminum alloy sheathing.
What it comes down to is that there are a huge number of factors, ie. there was no way to control WHO would witness the event, along with the level of deception required on the part of ALL involved, including not only the television networks, but the first responders, the reporters, camera crews, etc., which the no plane theorists allege were ALL part of the conspiracy.
Then there's the matter of the holes in the towers, the fireballs, and the resulting smoke plumes. There is no real way to fake entrance holes, not without EXTERIOR explosives at least, and it's quite obvious there weren't sacks of explosives hanging from the towers that morning.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 11:43:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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