4um: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic

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Title: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic
Source: various
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/reada ... gi?ArtNum=149329&Disp=671#C671
Published: Sep 29, 2012
Author: Me and various
Post Date: 2012-09-29 01:19:12 by GreyLmist
Keywords: 9/11, NIST, PBS, CBS
Views: 1631
Comments: 94

Relevant info on this topic is accessible through posts #586 and #671 linked below:
4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done

Post #586 -- videos, links, and details
Post #671 -- WETA/PBS addendum info
Poster Comment:
Tangential discussion starting point [#103] at 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11, if needed for referencing here.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
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#1. To: GreyLmist (#0)
I applaud your efforts.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-29 15:49:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: titorite, GreyLmist (#1)
I applaud your efforts.

I'm sure you would.
So, do the both of you now admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 16:02:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: FormerLurker (#2) (Edited)
DO you admit to being a lying asshole who willingly uses disinformation tactics in an attempt to suppress views counter to your own......I mean you could probably act in a more retarded manner if you tried... but I have trouble imagining it.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-29 16:12:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: titorite (#3) (Edited)
DO you admit to being a lying asshole who willingly uses disinformation tactics in an attempt to suppress views counter to your own......I mean you could probably act in a more retarded manner if you tried... but I have trouble imagining it.

You're the one being a complete shithead here, and you expect others to swallow your accusations?
I simply asked if you're ready to admit that this video is a fraud. Apparently your only recourse to start slinging shit at me.
Projection won't help your argument bud.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 19:54:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: titorite (#3)
So are you trying to say this video is authentic original footage?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 19:56:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: titorite (#3)
What's sort of amusing is that YOU are using not only disinfo tactics to "make your case", you're trying to say that a blatently fraudulent video is bonafide actual footage from 9/11.
It's been proven that it's doctored footage of actual CBS live video, and that the author of the video is misrepresenting it as the real thing which he proceeds to "analyze".
Maybe I should repost that proof in case anyone here missed it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 20:05:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: GreyLmist, titorite, All, *9-11* (#0)
Fake "9/11 Truth" video aptly named "Smoke and Mirrors"

Here's the original footage aired by CBS, which is the source for the doctored Detroit Public TV video which is used by the "Smoke and Mirrors" author.
It starts with a freeze framed view of the aircraft already halfway from the right edge of the screen to the right side of the Empire State Building.

The Detroit Public TV video is doctored to make it appear that the plane comes out of nowhere by looping the first two seconds of video, with the plane erased out of the sky on the first pass.
You can see the splice was done at the 0:02 mark where the smoke plume gets fuzzy and appears to jump. That is exactly where the aircraft "appears out of nowhere".

The doctored footage attempts to hide the splice by restarting the loop on the 2nd pass a few tenths of a second after the start of the first pass, hoping to make the jump in the smoke plume less noticable.
If you look though, it is STILL quite noticable, as the smoke jumps backwards right at the same time the aircraft "appears out of nowhere".
Next, at 00:39 into the video it asks, "Why was the camera aimed slightly to the right of the Empire State Building instead of at the burning WTC?". It adds the comment, "A perfect position to catch the arrival of the 2nd plane".
Thing is, the author of the doctored footage CROPPED the original CBS video to make it LOOK that way, whereas the original footage is a wide view of Lower Manhatten taken from north of the Empire State Building, with the WTC centered in the frame.
Continuing the analysis of the "Smoke and Mirrors" extended video, it states at the 1:29 mark that, "This is about the impact that was not shown". The original footage sure DID show that impact, but of course the author of "Smoke and Mirrors" would have his audience believe that his statement is beyond reproach.
And of course, at 1:41 into the video, he shows the doctored version of the impact and the smoke plume from the North Tower, which was obviously edited from the original CBS footage to make it look as it does. It was done by erasing the smoke plume, copying a part of it, then cutting and pasting it in expanding sequences to recreate a fake plume.
The "Smoke and Mirrors" author then goes on to show at 7:38 the actual CBS footage, which apparently he remembered DID exist, but claims it is a different clip of what he just spent minute upon minute "analyzing".
For anyone to try to defend this obvious and blatent fraud indicates they are more interested in perpetuating a lie, than revealing any sort of truth.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-29 20:30:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: FormerLurker (#6)
What's sort of amusing is that YOU are using not only disinfo tactics to "make your case", you're trying to say that a blatently fraudulent video is bonafide actual footage from 9/11.

It is not sort of amusing. You are spamming off peoples words because you are Using disinformation tactics.

Let everyone judge your deceptions
vigilantcitizen.com/lates...-rules-of-disinformation/

You are using those rules verbatim by the text book and you are attempting to suppress views counter to your own, only because you refuse to believe what is pointed out in front of you... I mean the size of your denial is HUGE over shadowed only be your willingness to attempt to deceive others.

I don't have to quote the same post four times to address you former lurker. I don't need to spam your words to the back pages so that no body can read them. Thats bad netiqute.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-30 15:25:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#0) (Edited)
This is an addendum for references on an additional documentary circa 2003 (Ref. web.archive.org: 911conspiracy.tv - 2nd WTC Attack Videos - CBS3: "The Center of the World - New York: A Documentary Film" | PBS, Lisa Ades, Ric Burns, and David Ogden Stiers, narrator) that is said to be the origin of the now unavailable Detroit Public TV documentary footage (referenced at the start of the Smoke and Mirrors long- version video with the Detroit Public TV logo and also in the 8-sec. US Department of Commerce/NIST video with the WETA logo for Washington D.C. PBS; Ref. Posts #586 and #671).
In comparison to the Smoke and Mirrors (long version) PBS footage: All of the original CBS news footage that I've viewed up to this point of the Empire State Building angle likewise shows the plane image as if it appears out of nowhere to the right of the Empire State Building or from behind it, depending on which broadcast segments are being reported/discussed. Also, in all of the available PBS video-clip examples that I've noted above, the screen jumps as if spliced like the Smoke and Mirrors segment does. Neither of these issues (the appearance of the plane image as if out of nowhere and the screen jump as if spliced) should be attributed to tampering by whomever authored the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos at the terrorize.dk site or to Elpiper who posted them at YouTube in May and June of 2008 because they are evidenced in MSM CBS and PBS film of 9/11. The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short-version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example. The copied smoke alteration is debateable as to how and from what source that happened and there could be some interpretive problems with the wording of the comments in the video analyses. It is still my impression as of now, though, from what I can recall of much earlier discussions about this video topic, that the coloration and smoke copying was for dramatic effect by the Media to promote the Iraq war.
At watchdocumentary.com: The biggest source of free documentaries to watch online
Segment 4 at 1:17

New York: A Documentary Film - Episode 08: The Center of the World (1946–2003)

YouTube Playlist by me of the documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World -- 7 videos, duration 1:30:50, go to 1:17 of video #4 for comparisons with the other footage in question.
Description excerpts:

New York: A Documentary Film is an eight-part, 17½ hour, American documentary film on the history of New York City. It was directed by Ric Burns and originally aired in the U.S. on PBS. The film was a co-production of Thirteen New York and WGBH Boston.
The documentary is divided into eight parts: * Episode One: The Country and the City (1609--1825) * Episode Two: Order and Disorder (1825--1865) * Episode Three: Sunshine and Shadow (1865--1898) * Episode Four: The Power and the People (1898--1918) * Episode Five: Cosmopolis (1919--1931) * Episode Six: City of Tomorrow (1929--1941) * Episode Seven: The City and the World (1945--2000) * Episode Eight: The Center of the World (1946--2003)

Additional References:
Film Credits . New York The Center of the World . WGBH American Experience - PBS
freerepublic.com: PBS TV -- The Center of the World (a WTC history)

Edit to insert a PBS notation in paragraph 2.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 5:48:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#9) (Edited)
The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short- version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example.

I think this is the one I was thinking of (note especially at 6:00) and is also reporting by CBS.
WCBS Chopper 2 Reports from 9/11
The Reports from WCBS's Chopper 2 from the World Trade Center Attack on 9/11
Chopper 2 Photographer / Reporter: Jim Smith
Chopper 2 Pilot: Eddie Baker
Anchors: Lisa Hill, Michael Palmerenz

Edit to add another CBS video example for comparisons of darkened coloring (note especially 7:00-8:15).
CBS 9/11 9:02 - 9:12

-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 6:36:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: GreyLmist (#10)
9/11 War Crimes Tribunal expected to issue Indictments of Accused in 9/11 events on January 22, 2013
www.911warcrimestribunal.org/

Itistoolate posted on 2012-10-01 6:50:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Itistoolate (#11)
9/11 War Crimes Tribunal expected to issue Indictments of Accused in 9/11 events on January 22, 2013
www.911warcrimestribunal.org/

Wow. Thanks for posting that news. Like an article comment said -- which I posted at your topic, Let US start a thread on WHO Did 911 -- the official 9/11 storylines wouldn't even have to be pronounced yet by the court as bogus before Rudy Guiliani could be charged with destruction of the evidence.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 8:08:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: FormerLurker (#6) (Edited)
You're misrepresenting what people have said and have been told numerous times that it's doctored/altered footage. What you've posted hasn't proven what you've accused, imo. I haven't seen anyone on the web as fixated on this matter as you've been. Please review the references here and try to transition some from embattling mode to a bit more conversant mode.
Edited sentence 2.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-01 8:41:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: GreyLmist (#13)
What you've posted hasn't proven what you've accused, imo. I haven't seen anyone on the web as fixated on this matter as you've been

Huh? Are you that dense that you can't understand the Smoke and Mirrors video is a complete fraud? What part of the analysis do you fail to understand?
And who's the one that keeps posting it, and who's the one that created this thread?
Don't you think there are better avenues to approach the 9/11 subject with rather than beating a dead horse? This no planes topic is right up there with the Loch Ness monster and Sasquatch in terms of credibility. Well no actually, those two subjects might actually have SOME basis in fact.
What it comes down to GL, is that beyond your "feelings", there is ZERO evidence indicating what you allege. There are no inconsistencies in the original video from that day in terms of aircraft flying into the WTC towers and resulting damage.
Additionally, there are NO witnesses to the events of that day which state NO PLANE hit the tower(s), if they were looking at the towers from a vantage point where they would have or should have seen it as it happened.
There ARE some serious questions as to why and how the towers collapsed. But the level of cognitive dissonance required to accept what you're peddling is beyond what a reasonable or rational person would possess.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 10:55:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: GreyLmist (#9)
The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short-version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example.

Pure BS. The video footage used in the Smoke and Mirrors video is doctored CBS video footage, darkened and color adjusted to make it look different to the casual viewer. It is the same exact video other than being cropped, doctored, and color adjusted.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 11:00:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: GreyLmist (#9)
One more thing GL. Being that apparently the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is the "best" evidence you can drag off the net in terms of supporting your theory, it should be clear that your theory doesn't hold water.
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate. Being that at least I know that this video is a complete fraud, you're never going to convince me of what you're peddling, although I'm sure you'll be tap dancing all over the forum trying to convince others that it's bonafide evidence.
Yep, it's bonafide evidence alright. Evidence that someone released a doctored video to PBS stations for broadcast, and then others either out of malice or ignorance decided that it's "evidence" of the "no planes" theory.
Since the author of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video claims expertise, and he even includes the source CBS footage in his extended video, it's apparent that he's not doing it out of ignorance.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 11:08:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: titorite (#8)
I think the bozo list is the best place for you. See ya bozo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-01 12:02:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: FormerLurker (#16) (Edited)
The Smoke and Mirrors videos have never been a No Planes presentation by me or anyone else here in these discussions that I know of, except in your imagination. They are a Media Fakery issue that arose simply as a smoke direction anomaly example. I started this thread as a research center convenience on the issues because or your misinterpretations and besiegings through hundreds of posts that were spanning two other topics, despite all attempts to explain the matter.
The plane out of nowhere appearance is from CBS footage. The splice jump is from PBS footage which used the CBS footage and the NIST footage shows that too. There are numerous examples of MSM footage on the web with comparatively dark coloration of WTC scenes. The PBS documentary footage that I posted at #9 is full of darkened coloration of WTC scenes. Reference watchdocumentary.com: New York A Documentary Film - Episode 08 The Center of the World (1946–2003) and the YouTube Playlist: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World; See segment 4 of the watchdocumentary.com film at 1:17 and video #4 at 1:17 of the YouTube Playlist for comparison to the NIST clip at Post #586 listed above and other PBS footage examples in question regarding this topic.
This is a link for the webarchive of the terrorize.dk page in question. It is a vast 9/11 archive and other pages are accessible through the links there. This is a link that I've found to be currently active for the terrorize.dk page in question. At both of those pages, there are two Video: links that I can't access for some reason but you could try to or search for elsewhere, each titled: 911.wtc.2.hit.north.01.wmv
Here is a link to the active Contact page for terrorize.dk. I suggest that you ask them for an explanation since mine have been to no avail with you. As you know, the Detroit Public Television documentary is not available and that was what they were trying to analyze -- without any lines inserted that I can see, like the Smoke and Mirrors videos have. The first set of examples show a smoke anomaly that is said to be viewable for 60 frames/2 seconds. Compare that to the documentary footage linked twice above at the 1:17 mark [Edit to add: and shown in other reference examples]. The second set of examples at terrorize.dk show the smoke copy footage but, evidently, it is only analyed there and at the web.archive.org page for terrorize.dk as "the aircraft's real entrance". Your complaints about the analysis there are misplaced, imo, afaik.
With the Detroit Public Television documentary footage no longer being available, you have no evidence to accuse the terrorize.dk site or the poster of the Smoke and Mirrors videos, Elpiper, of faking the smoke and explosion mirroring issue. At most, Elpiper might be criticized for mistaking the DPTV documentary footage with the anomalous smoke-copy/mirroring as footage originally aired on 9/11 rather than a Media-alteration later for the Detroit documentary, probably as Iraq War propaganda. If you wanted to contact Elpiper with your accusations, I think you could do that at the YouTube video locations. As far as I can tell, they simply questioned more about the footage than was critiqued at the terrorize.dk page and posted videos for inspection of their views. Even though the Smoke and Mirrors videos were an imperfect analysis, they don't give me the impression that they were intentionally misleading as you have. It is an open analysis available for public scrutiny and rebuttal. Human error in open investigations isn't unusual or categorically nefarious but your relentless and speculative insistance of malintent is vengefully suspicious.
Will address your other comments next.
Edited to reword last sentence of 1st and 2nd paragraphs + bracketed insert at paragraph 4.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:02:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#16) (Edited)
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.

I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Edited sentence 1.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:42:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#14)
This no planes topic is right up there with the Loch Ness monster and Sasquatch in terms of credibility. Well no actually, those two subjects might actually have SOME basis in fact.
What it comes down to GL, is that beyond your "feelings", there is ZERO evidence indicating what you allege. There are no inconsistencies in the original video from that day in terms of aircraft flying into the WTC towers and resulting damage.
Additionally, there are NO witnesses to the events of that day which state NO PLANE hit the tower(s), if they were looking at the towers from a vantage point where they would have or should have seen it as it happened.

It is your remote control sector that has been telling us a storied rendition for over a decade with no actual evidence. Will address the witnesses issue you raised later. For now, there was a reporter named Don Dahler interviewed "as it happened" who said he saw no plane, just an explosion. That is certainly not the only example. Will get back to you with more examples and references asap.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-04 14:53:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: FormerLurker (#17)
I think the bozo list is the best place for you. See ya bozo.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/lates...-rules-of-disinformation/
HOW TO DECEIVE WITH DISINFORMATION TACTICS
25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.

The last tactics.... When too much pressure of truth is applied the deceiver can always take his ball and go home so to speak. Here Former Lurker has choosen to invoke his right of bozoing because he has an agenda to push and he has placed that agenda above the truth.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

"When all other possibilities have removed the result, no matter how unlikely, must be correct" |
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 16:19:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: GreyLmist (#18)
The Smoke and Mirrors videos have never been a No Planes presentation by me or anyone else here in these discussions that I know of, except in your imagination.
Uh huh. Take that up with your little friend titorite, he seems to feel differently about it than you.
With the Detroit Public Television documentary footage no longer being available, you have no evidence to accuse the terrorize.dk site or the poster of the Smoke and Mirrors videos, Elpiper, of faking the smoke and explosion mirroring issue.
My what a twisted web you weave. I had at first thought the alteration was done by the terrorize.dk owner, but once it became clear that the author of that site was saying the same thing I was pointing out in how that video had been altered to make it LOOK fake, it became clear that he was not the author of the alterations.
It is ALSO clear however that the "Smoke and Mirrors" author misrepresented the footage as original live footage from 9/11, and "analyzes" it in a way to "prove" that the plane "came from nowhere" and that the smoke plume was "fake".
Since you appear to be trying to vouch for his "honesty", I place about as much credence in anything you say as I do with him.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:41:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Oops.
MD-90??
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-10-04 19:44:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Without even looking at it, I'd say since PBS appears to be fond of airing doctored 9/11 footage, I'd place as much faith in it as the "plane from nowhere" footage and the "fake smoke plume" in the other footage you're so head over heals over.
Find some ORIGINAL footage from 9/11 if you want to try to point out abnormalities.
Also, can you give us a brief rundown what YOU think happened on 9/11? Were there ever any planes, did anything crash into the towers, were there smoke plumes, that sort of stuff.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:45:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: GreyLmist (#20)
It is your remote control sector that has been telling us a storied rendition for over a decade with no actual evidence.
There is evidence planes hit the towers. The "19 arabs", some of whom are still alive, could not have flown those planes as they were flown.
So if the planes weren't flown by them, who DID fly them?
Remote control is QUITE possible, feasible, and plausible.

Is that why you're trying to "debunk" it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:48:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: GreyLmist (#20)
For now, there was a reporter named Don Dahler interviewed "as it happened" who said he saw no plane, just an explosion. That is certainly not the only example.

Uh huh. Was he one who could not see the approach and impact because he was on the opposite side of the tower? There were of course people whose vision was obscured, are you using THOSE people as your "proof"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:49:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: GreyLmist (#18)
You have a way of using a lot of words to say very little. Sort of like Mitt Romney. Any relation?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:51:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: GreyLmist (#19)
Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

For one, it's the wrong type of plane. For two, it is not in motion so it could be a "dramatization". And for three, as I said earlier, PBS has already aired doctored 9/11 footage, so I wouldn't place all my eggs in that basket if I were you GL.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 19:54:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: titorite (#21)
I read your BS when I read 4um without being signed in.
So let me ask you this ONE MORE TIME.
Do you admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud? OR, do you feel that it is bonafide evidence of the "no planes" theory?
Stop your tap dancing and accusations and answer the question. I'd be surprised if you do, since it seems the chances of YOU being a shillster here on this forum are quite high, as you're able to do "controlled opposition" to a tee, yet attack those presenting plausible and workable ideas and theories in regards to what may have happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
The "no planes theory" is quite implausibile, and if you could discuss it rationally, and if you had any intelligence at all, you'd come to the same realization.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 20:46:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: FormerLurker (#29)
So much for filters. Maybe you should focus more on keeping your own word with yourself before you begin to interact with others.

BTW the atrocious amount of repetitive replies is seriously unnecessary. You can use your edit button just as most others do... rather than replying over and over and over to the same posts effectively achieving your goal of spamming off the words you don't want shared.
You volunteer for the cointel services way too easily .
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 21:19:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: GreyLmist (#19)
It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.
I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?
Edited sentence 1.

THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!

The devil of the details... It took me a moment but I saw what you pointed out...

People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?
Look again at the video.

And ask yourself why they are using images of fake planes? and How much of the footage was fake planes.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 21:31:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: titorite (#30)
Again, instead of spewing nonsense, why don't you answer the two simple questions below;
A) Do you admit that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud?

B) Do you believe that it is bonafide evidence of the "no planes" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 21:35:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: titorite, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#31)
THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!
..... tap dancing ......
People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?

As far as that PBS video, just as I thought. You're going to use that as "no planes" evidence. For one, not only is that NOT a clip from 9/11, it is either a dramatized image or a doctored one, PBS has ALREADY aired doctored footage from SOMEONE, who exactly isn't quite clear yet.
I find it an odd coincidence that you're bringing this stuff up on the net right about the same time PBS is airing the Architects for 9/11 Truth video. A guilt by association sort of thing, isn't it tit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-04 21:39:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: FormerLurker (#33) (Edited)
I find it revealing that your logic does not apply to yourself.
I mean you are being shown the inconsistent images... The images from the mainstream images you can get from their websites in their caches with the same flaws of the conspirators still left in ....
And yet you refuse to accept the truth in front of your eyes.

STOP LETTING ANTIQUE PROPAGANDA CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS!

WTF is PBS in on the no plane theory too?!?! They made that vid just to get to you? is that it? Is that what you think?! That everything in the world revolves around you and your internet pronouncements of what is fact and what is not? Get real man.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-04 22:11:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: titorite (#34)
Can you answer a simple question without your bullshit, yes, or no?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 2:45:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: titorite. christine, Lod, All, *9-11* (#34)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
Let me ask you this ONE more time.
Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 2:49:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: FormerLurker, titorite (#27)
You have a way of using a lot of words to say very little.

You have a way of using a lot of posts to do nothing much but berate and inject interference. Who's head over heals about the Smoke and Mirrors topic? You, obviously. I told you I wanted to move on from that to more important things but you refuse and continue your onslaughts, demanding answers and not providing any to speak of. Who do you think you are? You act like a gila monster.
bbl
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-05 6:40:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: FormerLurker (#36)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
Let me ask you this ONE more time.
Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?

No , you are just acting like a dick head.
Your questions have been answered , fuck you for dragging my friends into this you piece of shit. They have no reference here. They have not been following the conversation of your trolling fucking antics.
I hope you get a virus today you fuck stain.
I mean bother me all you want but leave others that have nothing to do with this OUT OF THIS .... fucking jack boot thug
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-05 7:19:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: titorite, christine, Lod (#38)
So I guess it's official, you ARE a shill. It's quite apparent that you have no intent of having a civil discussion concerning this, you're only here to harrass and disrupt the forum with your antics.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:40:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: GreyLmist (#37)
And you. I HAVE commented on the PBS footage you posted. Are YOU trying to claim that image is a screen capture from 9/11?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:41:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: GreyLmist (#37)
Who's head over heals about the Smoke and Mirrors topic?

Who posted this thread?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 10:50:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: FormerLurker (#39)
Shill? Fuck your shill bullshit
Former Lurker you have entered full on scum bag territory when you attempted to drag my friends into this fuck you lying scum bag piece of shit.

What on gods green earth makes you think you are any better then any other scum bag? You attempt to drag innocent people into a conflict they have nothing to do with.

You attempt to use them as an intellectual weapon against me.

Trully you do no service to any truth movement.....

You're worthless lying punk ass is in no better place than pasted to that chair you filth.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-05 16:09:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: titorite (#42)
All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.
Again, just one last try here.
Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 16:28:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: FormerLurker (#43)
You lying sack of shit. You are the one full of accusations and as for obscenities and profanities , you could of done nothing more obscene and profane than to attempt to drag innocent bystanders into this silly troll fest of yours.
Truly you are a scum bag beneath contempt.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-05 17:08:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: titorite (#44)
Fuck, blah blah blah shit, blah blah blah asshole.
See I can talk like you too.
Like I said, it's quite apparent that you have no intention of admitting that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, since you're peddling it as the "real thing".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-05 17:19:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: randge (#23)
ops.
MD-90??

Dirt Cheap Jumbo Jets.

Just saying.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-10-05 22:57:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: FormerLurker, titorite, *9-11* (#43) (Edited)
All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.
Again, just one last try here.
Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?

9-11 jump-ping to video issue highlighted below.
I'm guessing, FL, that you think you're on some sort of entrapment enforcement mission with your false dichotomy/false dilemma/either-or fallacy hammerings when those aren't even the real choices, much less the only options realistically. You should already know by now that "Neither" would be the actual answer in truth to your Inquisitions about it. Once again, they are a Media Fakery issue with focus on the smoke and explosion anomalies in a Detroit PBS program depicting 9/11, not a No Planes Theory "powerpoint" demo. Being mistaken about when the footage was originally broadcast does not equate to fraud.
As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself. If you can find original CBS footage from that Empire State Building angle which doesn't show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere, post it here for us but I couldn't find any. It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008.
As for your 1st paragraph of spurious aspersions, this was your response to titorite after he posted a Smoke and Mirrors link for you to consider in the anomalous smoke discussion. Ref. 4um Title: How 9/11 Was Done; titorite at Post #350. FL at Post #355: "I dare say if you looked beyond your ass, you'd see that you've been wrong in EVERYTHING you've said,"
This is an example of titorite editing a post to you in an effort of civility:

Ref. Post #123 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Edited for civility.

Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once:
Post #111 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Me: I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.

FL: Are you high? "Little to no smoke damage"? Are you trying to say there were no fires at all, and THAT was faked too?
Do you truly believe what you write?
As far as WTC 1, WTF are you talking about in terms of "insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles"?

I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time:
WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks

Edited sentence 1 for readability formatting.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-05 23:47:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: GreyLmist, all (#47) (Edited)
Originally this was going to be a private reply to GreyLmist about his words said in post 47. After writing it out I thought it better to say it publicly.

Thanks... Yeah.. I mentioned lod and christine a while back in that other thread... only as a means that he might ask some of the real people here if that I am a real person too. I was trying to be more polite in that moment.
Then to see him drop those two names in another thread... and only as a means to get under my skin or maybe..(I really don't wanna think this) or maybe he meant to attempt to turn my friends on me.... Either way that was a sure fire way to push my buttons.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-06 0:15:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: randge, All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#23)
Oops.
MD-90??

A McDonnell Douglas MD-90...yes, it does look like that and Delta Airlines is associated with those aircraft. It's almost like the "Center of the World" PBS documentary was confused about which Flight was said to have hit there and thought maybe it was the Delta 1989 suspected hijack. Can't imagine why they would have used that fake insert for a supposed "dramatization", what with all of the dramatic MSM imagery of alleged United Airlines and American Airlines plane strikes at the WTC that day.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-06 0:31:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: GreyLmist (#47)
It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008.
As I've already said, the PBS video is obviously doctored. The author of "Smoke and Mirrors" however appends the actual CBS source video to his analysis, and claims it is different footage than what he spent the majority of his time analyzing, although in reality it's the ORIGINAL UNALTERED footage.
He implies that the video he is analyzing is unaltered original footage from 9/11, and makes no attempt to present it as a later work. So to me, that is being dishonest at best.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:27:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: GreyLmist (#47) (Edited)
As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself.

You're misrepresenting what that video shows. It does NOT show a "plane appearing out of nowhere", it is a freeze framed image that begins with the plane halfway from the right edge of the frame to the right edge of the Empire State Building. I have NOT seen any original version of that video where the plane actually appears out of "nowhere". The ONLY footage I've seen that shows anything like that is the DOCTORED version as we've discussed here endlessly.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:30:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: GreyLmist (#47)
Edited for civility.
Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once:

Oh yeah, I guess all the gems right here on this thread where such editing didn't take place passed right by you right?
So if I called you an asshole, a pole smoker, a fuck head, etc., etc., etc., and told you to go fuck yourself and die, that'd be ok if I edited one post later on for the purpose of "civility", eh?
Your tactics are already quite obvious here GL. You're the "good cop", and titorite is the "bad cop". You'll try to act as if you're being polite and profesional, whereas your little sidekick will take the opposite approach.
If that's the game you want to play, it only demonstrates what the both of you are really here for.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:36:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: GreyLmist (#47)
I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time:
WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks

Like I said way back in the previous thread, "are you high"?
Are you now trying to claim that the towers didn't really collapse and that they're still there? It was ALL just an illusion that day and nothing at all really happened?
Just because you weren't physically there to fly a helicopter close enough to the WTC and inspect the outside of the tower for dings and scratches, that to you means there was no damage and that it didn't really happen?
Now if WTC 1 hadn't collapsed shortly after the other tower, then perhaps there'd be footage of whatever damage existed from the collapse of WTC 2, but since there was a debris cloud enveloping the area and it wasn't the safest place to be at the time, there isn't much in the way of close up shots of WTC 1 after the first collapse.
But so what? Can you actually say with a straight face that is proof of ANYTHING?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:44:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: GreyLmist, randge (#49)
Can't imagine why they would have used that fake insert for a supposed "dramatization", what with all of the dramatic MSM imagery of alleged United Airlines and American Airlines plane strikes at the WTC that day.

Perhaps it's to get people such as yourself all worked up over it, causing you to bring it up on the net as some sort of proof of your "no planes" theory in order to cause further discord in the 9/11 Truth community, and to discredit anyone who speaks out against the official legend and presents real bonafide evidence by associating those people with "no planers".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 9:51:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: GreyLmist, titorite (#47) (Edited)
This is what I've observed from the both of you. Neither one of you will pin down exactly what it is you're claiming, although titorite has previously stated that NO planes existed which were identified as hijacked aircraft that morning, and that the entire thing was fabricated.
He will not say one way or the other if he feels that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, but WILL get violently upset if I ask him about it.
You have posted repetitive posts stating the same thing for the past several weeks now, between this thread and the previous thread concerning Israeli Mossad involvement with the attacks, fluctuating between the authenticity of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video (proven to be using fake video, although presented as if it were an analysis of original footage), your claims that the smoke plumes were travelling in different directions (proven to be untrue), and some nebulous comment about "no damage from the collapse of the WTC 2 tower".
And of course, you have also used occasional ad hominem attacks against myself, acting all butt hurt over my responses to you and your pal, who has hurled more profanities and obscenities at not just me but others who disagreed with him, than anyone else I've seen post on this forum.
But between trying to convince people that the smoke plumes were fake, that the planes were fake, that the collapses were fake, all the while overlooking the actual evidence which proves differently, you haven't really stated what YOU think happened.
So what part of the attacks do you think were real, and those parts which were "faked" in your opinion, HOW were they "faked"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 10:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#56. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist (#54)
While the it seems that the Smoke and Mirrors video is compromised as evidence, and while I find the no plane hypothesis hard to digest, I continue to be disconcerted by the images in the video that show WTC swallowing FLT 175 whole like a shark snapping up a guppy.

Above is a shot of the exterior steel columns being built during construction of the Twin Towers. It's hard to believe that we're seeing was what was recorded in multiple video records of the event. It's just a freakin' tragedy that we've never had a real independent national investigation of what ocurred that day, and that we have so many loose ends to tie together.
The more I see, the less things make sense.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-10-06 10:51:06 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#57. To: randge (#56) (Edited)
I continue to be disconcerted by the images in the video that show WTC swallowing FLT 175 whole like a shark snapping up a guppy.

It's a matter of momentum, where a lower mass object moving at a high velocity will penetrate a stationary object of larger mass. Of course the planes were ripped to shreds upon penetrating the WTC towers, but their mass kept moving forwards due to their momentum.
In fact, at least one architect has described the impact as "putting a pencil into a screen door", as the actual exterior was not a solid metal or concrete wall, but rather a series of steel columns with aluminum alloy sheathing.
What it comes down to is that there are a huge number of factors, ie. there was no way to control WHO would witness the event, along with the level of deception required on the part of ALL involved, including not only the television networks, but the first responders, the reporters, camera crews, etc., which the no plane theorists allege were ALL part of the conspiracy.
Then there's the matter of the holes in the towers, the fireballs, and the resulting smoke plumes. There is no real way to fake entrance holes, not without EXTERIOR explosives at least, and it's quite obvious there weren't sacks of explosives hanging from the towers that morning.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 11:43:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#58. To: randge (#56)
The more I see, the less things make sense.

I know how that feels.... after over 10,000 hours of viewing the same damn footage over and over and over ... I know EXACTLY how you feel....
The plane melting into the building... that don't make sense, the spire evaporating , that does not make sense, the multiple approach angles make about as much sense as all the cell phone calls from planes that day.....should not of been possible, ,,,, was not possible. TO say nothing of the lack of plane evidence at the pentagon and shanksville.
After years and years of research into this... and you can see some of that here on 4um if you search my older postings, after years of research I had to apply Sherlock Holms theory to it and accept what I was left with after I eliminated every other reason for every other inconsistency....

I applied cold logic and I was able to accept the conclusion.
Some people can not accept the idea of the US attacking itself.... Some folks think everyone here is a crack pot lair bent on destroying the country with conspiracy. Lots of silly people in the world.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-06 15:12:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#59. To: titorite, randge (#58) (Edited)
I applied cold logic and I was able to accept the conclusion.

If you had done so, you would have quickly realized how impossible the "no planes" theory is.
You still haven't explained what YOU think happened that day, nor HOW it was done.
And just to reiterate what I've said, the 9/11 attacks certainly weren't perpetrated by 19 angry arabs, some of whom are still alive. It was most likely a joint US/Israeli/British covert operation, designed for maximum effect and benefiting a "chosen" few.
But that doesn't mean the entire city of New York was in on it, nor all of the television networks, office workers at the towers, firemen, police, reporters and camera crews, flight controllers, airlines, airports, and everyone else who'd have to be involved in a "no planes" scenario.
If you could think logically you'd understand that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-06 18:22:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#60. To: FormerLurker (#51) (Edited)
You're misrepresenting what that video shows. It does NOT show a "plane appearing out of nowhere", it is a freeze framed image that begins with the plane halfway from the right edge of the frame to the right edge of the Empire State Building. I have NOT seen any original version of that video where the plane actually appears out of "nowhere". The ONLY footage I've seen that shows anything like that is the DOCTORED version as we've discussed here endlessly.

There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen. You were asked to post a video that showed otherwise if you could find one and you haven't. Edit to add: A circled freeze frame isn't evidence that the plane image didn't appear there out of nowhere. More like evidence that they want you to presume it didn't just appear there out of nowhere.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-07 6:26:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#61. To: FormerLurker (#59)
And just to reiterate what I've said, the 9/11 attacks certainly weren't perpetrated by 19 angry arabs, some of whom are still alive.

Maybe it's time to move on from a topic that's kind of burned out to the question of the "hijackers" who were made TV icons of evils in the wake of the attacks and whose images have completely disappeared from the MSM.

Maybe we need a new thread or two here.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-10-07 10:58:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#62. To: FormerLurker (#55) (Edited)
This is what I've observed from the both of you. Neither one of you will pin down exactly what it is you're claiming, although titorite has previously stated that NO planes existed which were identified as hijacked aircraft that morning, and that the entire thing was fabricated.
He will not say one way or the other if he feels that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, but WILL get violently upset if I ask him about it.
You have posted repetitive posts stating the same thing for the past several weeks now, between this thread and the previous thread concerning Israeli Mossad involvement with the attacks, fluctuating between the authenticity of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video (proven to be using fake video, although presented as if it were an analysis of original footage), your claims that the smoke plumes were travelling in different directions (proven to be untrue), and some nebulous comment about "no damage from the collapse of the WTC 2 tower".
And of course, you have also used occasional ad hominem attacks against myself, acting all butt hurt over my responses to you and your pal, who has hurled more profanities and obscenities at not just me but others who disagreed with him, than anyone else I've seen post on this forum.

You're going to have to post some example of an ad hominem attack against you by me because the only comment which comes close to such that I can recall is when I compared the way you were acting to a gila monster -- the legend being that, when they bite, they won't let go until sundown or until it thunders. I apologize if that offended you but do find it funny, if so, after all of your ad hominem inundations.
I don't know what you mean by "fluctuating between the authenticity of the Smoke and Mirrors video." I've always said that it was a Media Fakery for Iraq War propaganda purposes. The footage analyzed was anomalous. In my opinion, afaik, the poster/analyzer naively underestimated the duplicity of the documentary producers. The commission of fraud was on their part, not the poster/analyzer's. I told you how to contact Elpiper with your charges of dishonesty. My comment about insignificant damage to WTC 1 from projectiles flying from the fall of WTC 2 was not nebulous and I posted video so you could see for yourself that the Tower was not severely impacted by debris as other WTC buildings farther away were said to have been from such. You dismissed it. The smoke plume does lean to the left and also to the right in various footage, not just the examples debated, and there are different plane trajectories too. No amount of evidence is ever going to be admissable to you as viable, apparently, if it goes against your remote control belief system or whatever other narratives you're promoting -- kind of like all the courts that don't care about Article II, Section I Constitutionality regarding eligibility for Presidential office or not, just popular opinion.

But between trying to convince people that the smoke plumes were fake, that the planes were fake, that the collapses were fake, all the while overlooking the actual evidence which proves differently, you haven't really stated what YOU think happened.
So what part of the attacks do you think were real, and those parts which were "faked" in your opinion, HOW were they "faked"?

I'm a No Planes researcher and don't think that there were any real plane strikes at the WTC, at the Pentagon or in Pennsylvania. I've already told you that I don't claim to have all the answers about how the 9/11 illusion was faked. As I've also said before, there is evidence of film fakery and false witnesses and there is evidence that alleged Flights 11 and 77 didn't even fly that day, none of which makes any difference to you, I'm sure. Seems to me that nothing much is being accomplished in our debates except constant chaos, confusion, and misconstruances so I'm going to post some evidence in this thread on the witnesses, as I said I would, then we might as well just agree to disagree about 9/11 and be done with this mess.
Edited for spelling and paragraph 2 for clarity.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-07 12:28:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#63. To: GreyLmist (#60)
There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen.

That's an outright lie. The source footage of the Smoke and Mirrors video IS doctored CBS footage. Did you forget about the splice, and the backwards smoke?
As far as the original CBS footage, the plane does NOT appear from nowhere, the video does not begin till the plane is halfway between the right edge of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building.
If you have evidence to the contrary post it, but I've been waiting several weeks so far for you to do so and you still haven't been able to find anything.
So as I said, your statement is a blatent lie, since there doesn't exist ANY such original undoctored video, and you should know that since NONE of the original CBS video thus posted on 4um displays what you claim.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-07 15:08:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#64. To: GreyLmist (#62) (Edited)
As I've also said before, there is evidence of film fakery and false witnesses

The "film fakery" is that of the "no planers" and their COINTELPRO handlers, along with video altered for PBS documentaries. You have NOT been able to supply even ONE piece of ORIGINAL footage which suggest it was fabricated. You also have not supplied even ONE example of a "false witness".
Were all the camera crews in on it GL? All the police and firemen? All the office workers, commuters, and NYC residents who saw it happen live with their own eyes?
Did they all call each other the day before to work out the details?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-07 15:13:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#65. To: GreyLmist (#62)
As I've also said before, there is evidence of film fakery and false witnesses and there is evidence that alleged Flights 11 and 77 didn't even fly that day

So now the airports and airlines were in on it too, eh? Do you truly think millions of people, from low level workers, up through middle and senior management, would all have decided to take part in attacks against the United States?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-07 15:15:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#66. To: GreyLmist (#62)
nothing much is being accomplished in our debates except constant chaos, confusion

Which seems to be your ultimate goal. Disrupt and bring chaos to 9/11 threads which touch upon a bit too much truth, such as those which provide details on Israeli Mossad involvement.
Are you an Israeli citizen GL?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-07 15:16:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#67. To: FormerLurker (#66)
Which seems to be your ultimate goal. Disrupt and bring chaos to 9/11 threads which touch upon a bit too much truth, such as those which provide details on Israeli Mossad involvement.
Are you an Israeli citizen GL?

This is my 9/11 thread and it is you who are being chaotic and disruptive, apparently to obscure the Media Fakery issues that have been established despite your bombast, twistings, and inattentiveness. I was even going to thank you for all that I've learned about this topic because of your interest in it until I saw your latest batch of barbs. I'm not an Israeli citizen. Are you, FL? Have to wonder since you didn't want to discuss any of the details I've provided about Israeli/Mossad involvement -- just fitdance about No Planers.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 6:13:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#68. To: FormerLurker (#63) (Edited)
Me: There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen.

You: That's an outright lie. The source footage of the Smoke and Mirrors video IS doctored CBS footage. Did you forget about the splice, and the backwards smoke?

No, it's not a lie and no, I didn't forget about the splice and the backwards smoke but maybe you've forgotten that the source of that footage-doctoring isn't the Smoke and Mirrors poster, Elpiper. It is a PBS Media-alteration (circa 2003) of CBS 9/11 film, several years before the 2008 Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube. The splice-altered PBS footage is shown in those YouTube videos exactly as it appears in the NIST example and the Center of the World documentary example, as well as what you've posted of it. I'll rephrase the statement you quoted to be clearer, since you misunderstood what I meant:
The Smoke and Mirrors poster did nothing to doctor the plane approach in those videos. It is the same approach as can be seen in the earlier PBS and NIST films. Also, the appearances of the plane image as if out of nowhere are directly from the Detroit PBS doc's CBS 9/11 footage-rendering (that was referenced to have been copied from the terrorize.dk archive for the analysis) which CBS originally showed as first appearing only from behind the Empire State Building and later from an inward point in the sky.

As far as the original CBS footage, the plane does NOT appear from nowhere,

Yes, it does.

the video does not begin till the plane is halfway between the right edge of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building.

You want to "fill in the blank" by reading more into it than it shows but that doesn't change the fact that it appears there as if out of nowhere. It's not even a debateable issue, really.

If you have evidence to the contrary post it, but I've been waiting several weeks so far for you to do so and you still haven't been able to find anything.

I think you have it backwards. I asked you to post evidence contrary to the Empire State Building plane imagery appearing there as if out of nowhere, if you could find any, and you still haven't done so. You should source your claim about waiting several weeks for something about that from me. The second video I posted at #10 on Oct. 1st shows the plane appearing from behind the Empire State Building at 2:38 and 3:33. I'm going to repost it here so that you and others can see those impact-trajectory clips and compare them to the trajectory that Bryant Gumble describes at 8:26 as "a different angle of the same plane."
CBS 9-11 9:02 - 9:12

So as I said, your statement is a blatent lie, since there doesn't exist ANY such original undoctored video, and you should know that since NONE of the original CBS video thus posted on 4um displays what you claim.

Wrong. You want to believe that the plane image doesn't appear out of nowhere in the original CBS video before it was doctored by PBS but there is no original CBS footage that I can find of that Empire State Building angle which does not show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere. Here is a 1.5 hr video of CBS coverage that day. If you can show otherwise, tell me where:
CBS News Live 9-11 - YouTube - 1.5 hrs; go to the 20:38 mark for an example of the plane image's longer approach as if out of nowhere

Edited for paragraph 1 parenthesis + last sentences of paragraph 2 and paragraph 5 + 2nd sentence of paragraph 5 + corrections for last video posting.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 8:18:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#69. To: FormerLurker (#64) (Edited)
The "film fakery" is that of the "no planers" and their COINTELPRO handlers, along with video altered for PBS documentaries. You have NOT been able to supply even ONE piece of ORIGINAL footage which suggest it was fabricated. You also have not supplied even ONE example of a "false witness".

If all you want to do is mudsling and make noise, that doesn't sound to me like you even have a real clue about No Planes investigations or 9/11. Your double standards in comparisons between the WTC and the Pentagon indicate to me that you do have a COINTELPRO- like agenda to cover the tracks of the WTC perps and are maybe also motivated to instigate a "civil war" over 9/11 to replace our Constitutional Republic in the aftermath, like some others I've seen in 9/11 circles and elsewhere. They're ok too with focusing on the Israel-Mossad angle as long as it's on their controlled tension-line terms only while whipping Americans up to be smashed by the NWO's forces. Would you like to discuss Israel's Hasbarah announcement soon before 9/11 to improve its image as compared to Arabs after the U.N. moved to define Zionism as Racism? Probably not.
I've already told you quite sometime ago about the WTC false witness, Tania Head, that even the MSM aknowledges was false. You might get paid to do this for a living but I don't. My time for this is limited and sporadic. If you'd quit making a meandering racket over things you shouldn't, I'd have more time to post further info on the witnesses, as I plan to do here when I can get to it. However, I've already posted some additional info on that subject at least once before:
Ref. Post #43 [on a number of alleged WTC witnesses] at 4um Title: Let US start a thread on WHO Did 911
Edited for italics, apostrophe correction, bracketed insert at Post #43 and to add: See also Post #44 and Post #45 on the topics of Jerome Hauer's official-line mythologizings, etc. and some of the claimed Pentagon witnesses. More on the alleged witnesses in another post when I can relocate the info and put it here.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 10:33:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#70. To: GreyLmist (#67)
This is my 9/11 thread and it is you who are being chaotic and disruptive

A) This is an extension of the "discussion" of the Israeli Mossad involvement thread, where instead of discussing who exactly was involved, and what evidence there was to that effect, you and your sidekick decided to plaster the thread with "no planer" nonsense.
B) This thread was meant to stir controversy, as the title of the thread indicates. It was SUPPOSED to be a discussion of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video.
C) My first comment on this thread was a simple question, which was, "do the both of you admit that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud?", directed to the both of you, ie. yourself and titorite. Your sidekick decided to launch a barrage of obscenities and accusations.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 11:13:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#71. To: GreyLmist (#68)
I didn't forget about the splice and the backwards smoke but maybe you've forgotten that the source of that footage-doctoring isn't the Smoke and Mirrors poster, Elpiper. It is a PBS Media-alteration (circa 2003) of CBS 9/11 film, several years before the 2008 Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube.

But the source vidoe which the Smoke and Mirrors author uses IS doctored CBS video. He pretends that it's ORIGINAL 9/11 footage, then ADDS a segment of the ORIGINAL footage at the end, claiming it's NOT the source of the doctored footage.
So if he's that stupid and doesn't know that he spent a good deal of time analying was derived from the latter video, then why do you people even use that video to make a point, where it's obviously derived from fraudulent footage?
But you made TWO statements in the first paragraph of your post which I called a lie. First was that you claimed the approach in the Smoke and Mirrors video wasn't doctored. Next was this sentence, "The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen. ".
Other than the DOCTORED video, there is not ONE clip of the ORIGINAL CBS footage which displays that behavior. The CBS video doesn't start till halfway between the right side of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building. It does NOT begin BEFORE then, where the plane suddenly appears out of thin air, as you have been attempting to trick people into thinking.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 11:23:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#72. To: GreyLmist (#68)
Neither of those clips you posted show a plane "appearing out of nowhere". YOU are the one making the claim that it does, it is not my job in life to find evidence that it does, it is up to you to find it if you want to prove that you aren't talking out your ass.
If you can point out any part in either clip where the plane actually appears out of nowhere, please do so.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 11:28:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#73. To: FormerLurker (#70) (Edited)
A) This is an extension of the "discussion" of the Israeli Mossad involvement thread, where instead of discussing who exactly was involved, and what evidence there was to that effect, you and your sidekick decided to plaster the thread with "no planer" nonsense.

Either your memory is faulty, you're going completely berserk, or you're a bald faced liar. Which is it FL?; because I posted statistics showing that I am the poster in that thread who mentioned Israel and the Mossad most often. [Ref.: Post #392 of 4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done]

B) This thread was meant to stir controversy, as the title of the thread indicates. It was SUPPOSED to be a discussion of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video.

This thread was because of the controversy that you stirred up over the Smoke and Mirrors videos. In your post that I replied to, which you are commenting on here, you mentioned other 9/11 threads, Israel and the Mossad, and asked me if I was an Israeli citizen. Seems you think it's SUPPOSED to be about the Smoke and Mirrors videos when you want it to be about that and not when you don't.

C) My first comment on this thread was a simple question, which was, "do the both of you admit that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud?", directed to the both of you, ie. yourself and titorite. Your sidekick decided to launch a barrage of obscenities and accusations.

He's not my sidekick and you set the tone of obscenities with him in your first response on his polite linking for you to a Smoke and Mirrors video, simply as a noticed smoke-direction anomaly example. He might use more such language and accusations in a post but he makes a lot less posts than you do, so I think you are still way ahead in the barrage launch count. He didn't know the details of the video but I already told you multiple times before this thread what I thought of the issue -- that it was a Media-fakery as Iraq War propaganda. Do you now admit that it is a proven Media fraud and not proven as malintent by the analyzer/poster, Elpiper?
Edited for spelling and last sentence + bracketed Reference insert for Post #392 linked at paragraph 1.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 11:48:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#74. To: GreyLmist (#69)
What it comes down to GL, is that for YOUR legend to be true, pretty much ALL of the world's TV networks, along with any of their reporters and camera crews on the scene, would had to have rehearsed their staged attack on the WTC before hand, AND pulled it off perfectly in real time with no glitches.
The conspriracy would have had to include any first responders since they too could have and would have noticed the fact that "no plane" hit the 2nd tower. Add to that list the office workers, bystanders, survivors, and general population of NYC who might have been observing from a distance, who most certainly could have and would have seen discrepencies between what was being aired on live TV, and what they were seeing with their own eyes.
And oh yes, you've claimed that the FAA, airlines, and airports were all in on it too, since you're ALSO claiming that those planes never took off that morning. Not just that, but the actual victims, the passengers and flight crew, well THEY were in on it too weren't they, since if they never flew, they must be HIDING OUT somewhere and part of this massive conspiracy.
Care to explain how or why these millions of people, including random inhabitants or visitors of NYC, could all be convinced to stage a fake attack against the WTC leading up to its demolition?
So you roll up some person who you claim is a "fake witness". Realistically I haven't even bothered Googling the name you provide. So say the perps can get ONE person to act as you claim, or even TEN, or even FIFTY, where they give some sort of testimony which somehow comes across as incorrect. SO WHAT? Does that negate the impossibility of MILLIONS of people being part of this plan you claim was set in motion to FAKE aircraft impacting the towers?
What it comes down to is that there is not ONE shred of scientific evidence corraborating what you claim, and the rules of logic indicate that it is so absurdly impossible, it shouldn't even be considered a valid theory since it has absolutely no basis in probability, fact, evidence, or logic.
So yes, the no planes theory can only accomplish two things.
A) Detract from ACTUAL VALID scientific and factual evidence indicating the government version of events is impossible.
B) Detract from the fact ISRAELIS WERE ARRESTED on the day of 9/11 with TONS of EXPLOSIVES on the George Washington Bridge.
C) Divide the 9/11 Truth movement between those who are hellbent on advancing the "no planes" theory, regardless of their lack of evidence, and those who are presenting hard scientific evidence of what truly happened that day.
D) Discredit those who are providing factual scientific and historical evidence, since they'll be lumped together by the general public with those advancing absurd irrational theories.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 11:50:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#75. To: GreyLmist (#73)
Either your memory is faulty, you're going completely berserk, or you're a bald faced liar. Which is it FL?; because I posted statistics showing that I am the poster in that thread who mentioned Israel and the Mossad most often.

Statistics, eh? You cherry picked a few things to make yourself look snow white.
Here, I'll post a link to the How 9/11 Was Done thread.
If anyone still hasn't seen that thread, it's there for all to examine. It becomes apparent who is posting what.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 12:07:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#76. To: GreyLmist (#73)
He's not my sidekick and you set the tone of obscenities with him in your first response on his polite linking for you to a Smoke and Mirrors video

Uh huh. Ignore his barrages of profanities, and blame me for one snarky response which you claim I posted.
You sure ACT like you're protecting him and approving of his behavior.
As I said, for anyone interested it's all there to see, no matter what false claims to the contrary you might make.
And as far as your "Smoke and Mirrors" author, are you trying to claim he IS NOT trying to present the "Smoke and Mirrors" video as if it were bonafide footage from the morning of 9/11?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 12:14:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#77. To: FormerLurker (#75)
Statistics, eh? You cherry picked a few things to make yourself look snow white.
Here, I'll post a link to the How 9/11 Was Done thread.
If anyone still hasn't seen that thread, it's there for all to examine. It becomes apparent who is posting what.

I added a link at Post #73 above for the statistics I posted in that thread at #392. Here's a printout-excerpt on the relevant info:

You: Congratulations to the three of you. After 11 days and 381 posts, you've managed to sidetrack the topic of this thread, which is Israeli involvement in the 9/11 attacks and the arrest of Mossad agents that day found with tons of explosives near the George Washington Bridge, as well as how the buildings were wired with explosives and detonated. You've turned it into a ridiculous array of wild unprovable allegations concerning a massive conspiracy involving the television networks, camera crews, on-scene reporters, firemen, police, WTC survivors, bystanders, airlines, airports, air traffic controllers, and the FAA, where they all decided to fake plane crashes into the WTC and produce videos of fake planes, fake smoke, and fake fireballs. Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel?
Me: Out of nearly 400 posts in this thread, the vast majority of them -- well over 300 -- are not by me, wudidiz, or titorite; but most of those by us were in answer to your barrage of demands, misconstruances, and derision.
The opening post contains the word "Mossad" a total of 5 times and, with all the posters in this thread, it is only mentioned a total of 5 more times -- all by you and only you, FL, and not until over the 20th post. The George Washington Bridge was never mentioned by anyone except you until now and I am the only other person to have used the word bridge in a posting.
The words Israel/Israeli/Israelis appear in responses on this thread less than 30 times after the opening post and 8 of those 30 times (approx. 25% to 30%+) are in a post by me on Zim Shipping linking that company directly to the Israeli government as a major shareholder -- which you cared not at all to discuss as evidence, nor did any other planers. I mentioned extensive research on Art Students in-residence at the WTC leading up to 9/11. Again, neither you nor any planers cared at all to discuss that evidence with regard to explosives and the spy network of Israeli Art Students concerning 9/11. A bigger priority for you, apparently (besides targeting no-planers), was insisting that the ABC "Butter Plane" was like "Kosher" Physics. Ergo, I should be the one asking you how much you got paid for the sidetracking distraction-favors you did for Israel.

After reviewing the post again, I see that you did mention outright the word Mossad 4 more times than me at that point. However, if I count the Art Student network individually, how many Mossad suspects would that be for my count-total? Maybe hundreds or more, I'm guessing.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 12:46:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#78. To: GreyLmist (#77)
You can play word games all you like GL. The proof is in the pudding, which is available at the thread I linked earlier. The thread starts off discussing the possibility of remote controlled aircraft as the article was concerning that topic, and Israeli involvement of such.
I didn't begin talking to you, wududiz, or titorite till the three of you started with your "no planes" nonsense.
You may as well have been saying that fairies hit the towers and made them fall, there's about as much evidence of that as there is in terms of the "no planes" theory.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 12:52:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#79. To: FormerLurker (#77) (Edited)
See also Post #443 by me regarding the Dancing Israelis/Mossad suspects and associates re: 9/11 Fund mishandling for legal fees of terrorist suspects like them. Those Israeli/Mossad suspects were also mentioned by me much throughout the extensive Mukasey/Chertoff/Ashcroft discussion in the How 9/11 Was Done topic.
Edited for spacing.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 13:17:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#80. To: FormerLurker, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#78)
You can play word games all you like GL. The proof is in the pudding, which is available at the thread I linked earlier. The thread starts off discussing the possibility of remote controlled aircraft as the article was concerning that topic, and Israeli involvement of such.
I didn't begin talking to you, wududiz, or titorite till the three of you started with your "no planes" nonsense.
You may as well have been saying that fairies hit the towers and made them fall, there's about as much evidence of that as there is in terms of the "no planes" theory.

The proof is there of your games. The No Planes assaults by you and your pals were already in swing before I came to that thread when ATKHWDI pinged me to the topic on an issue that had nothing to do with No Planes. My first post was a link regarding the Hebrew relevance of the date September 11 at Post #126. I didn't comment on the No Planes bashing until Post #140. As you know, I did discuss the remote control issue in that topic, with particular attention to a latency issue and the fact that alleged Flt. 93 indicates that it wasn't used or could be over-ridden. My opinion is that you have no actual evidence of remote controlled aircraft that day.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 14:04:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#81. To: FormerLurker, All (#75)
Here, I'll post a link to the How 9/11 Was Done thread.
If anyone still hasn't seen that thread, it's there for all to examine. It becomes apparent who is posting what.

Btw, that thread is linked for evidence checking convenience in the very first post at the top of this thread.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-08 15:42:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#82. To: GreyLmist (#80)
The proof is there of your games.

The thread didn't turn to shit until you and titorite started shitting all over it. It's there for the world to see.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-08 16:00:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#83. To: FormerLurker (#82)
It's there for the world to see.

I'm not worried about that but do think you should be.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-10 11:51:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#84. To: GreyLmist (#83)
Uh huh.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-10 12:13:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#85. To: All, *9-11* (#0) (Edited)
This is an addendum for info on the PVI L-VIS computer system at the GM Building that is relevant to this topic concerning the GM building coordinates of the 9/11 CBS footage-angle in question and where the CBS Early Show with Bryant Gumble that aired it was also located.
4um Title: NO PLANER COINTELPRO Operation Becoming Transparent - - Post #78
+ Edits at Post #93 to correct and activate the broken links.

PVI L-VIS computer at GM Building + CBS Early Show with Bryant Gumble on 9/11 at GM Building + Smoke and Mirrors topic info on Empire State Building footage-angle coordinates at GM Building
CBS bought a PVI LVIS computer in 1999 for the Early Show (during which time 911 01 plane graphic was animated).Early Show is broadcast from GM building on 59 St. and 5th avenue, NYC."
Correction CBS bought the PVI L-VIS computer for the EARLY SHOW in 1999. The Early Show was moved from 524 W. 57th St. Broadcast Center to GM Building (also where Apple is) on 59th and 5th Ave. from which control room, the PVI plane graphic was generated.

4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done -- Post #586: CBS 9/11 Empire State Building footage-angle coordinates + info on that footage altered by PBS for 2003 documentaries + Smoke and Mirrors videos info

The camera location: General Motors Building, aka FAO Schwartz, E 58th St at Madison Ave... 215 meters tall on ground elevated at 48 feet above sea level Lat 40.763595 Lon -73.972781 (Thanks, YougeneDebs)

General Motors Building (New York)

767 5th Ave, New York City, NY 10022, USA
The General Motors Building is a 50-story, 705-foot (215 m) office tower in Manhattan, New York City, facing Fifth Avenue at 59th Street . The building is one of the few structures in Manhattan that occupies a full city block.
At General Motors' home in Detroit, many of its buildings had been designed by Albert Kahn including the high-rise Cadillac Place, also known as the "General Motors Building".[8] Started in 1964 and finished in 1968, the General Motors Building originally featured, in its street-level lobby, a showroom for the vehicles of General Motors. Currently, the lobby is the home of FAO Schwarz's flagship toy store. The premises of the FAO Schwarz toy store feature a sculpture of a stuffed bear in the plaza and oversized keyboard on the floor played by foot as seen in the film Big. The store won an award for its lighting in 2005.[4] The building was also home to CBS's The Early Show from 1999– 2012.

FAO Schwarz

The FAO Schwarz flagship store on Fifth Avenue in New York City is a popular tourist destination, and has gained iconic status for its floor piano, cameos in major motion pictures, and real-life toy soldiers.[1] The FAO Schwarz brand is exclusively operated by Toys "R" Us Inc.[3] The FAO Schwarz flagship store, located in the General Motors Building at Fifth Avenue and 58th Street in Manhattan, is currently the brand’s only store location.

Edited to add a GM Building excerpt from Wikipedia and for formatting.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-12 15:47:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#86. To: All (#85)
4um Title: NO PLANER COINTELPRO Operation Becoming Transparent -- Post #78
+ Edits at Post #93 to correct and activate the broken links.

Transferring a copy of info at Post #78 with activated links:
killtown Why They Didn't Use Planes To Hit The WTC -- article and comment excerpts

May 31, 2007 (Updated: 09/23/08)
"Of the five 'live' shots of the alleged impacts there is not one reporter with any of those camera crews. It's like the anchors were the reporters. Did the networks just decide to share cameras? Why is there NOT ONE local newscast with a video of their own? And why do we know the identities of ALL of the people not associated with the networks that submitted videos of the alleged impacts and NOT know the identities of ANY of the news crews that captured the most spectacular shots in the history of live news?"
Monday, 24 January 2000 independent.co.uk

Viewers tuning into American broadcaster CBS's recent news coverage of the millennium celebrations in New York witnessed a televisual sleight of hand which enabled CBS to alter the reality of what they saw. Using "virtual imaging" technology, the broadcaster seamlessly adjusted live video images to include an apparently real promotion for itself in Times Square. The move has sparked debate about the ethics of using advances in broadcast technology to alter reality without telling viewers that what they are seeing isn't really there.

"CBS owned a PVI LVIS computer, purchased for the EARLY SHOW in 2000. CBS was the command center for the broadcast. CBS generated the PVI animation.
Do some research before all the links to CBS are pulled down owning a PVI LVIS COMPUTER SYSTEM IN 2000."
"CBS bought PVI LVIS computer in 1999:
i took a class at PVI (Princeton Video Image, ownd by Cablevision), Lawrenceville, NJ, in August 2007. On the 4th day we learned to animate graphics on virtual path created on a PVI 3D wireframe. It was then that I saw how PVI was used to animate the plane graphic on 911. PVI graphics are mapped to specific colors on which they appear on the TV monitor.Graphics is assigned (ie, green of football field, SKY blue of the 911 morning sky for the plane graphic to be annimated on TWIN TOWERS.camera shot). I can’t put this information in your head. You have to understand how PVI graphics animation appear only on the color chosen for the graphic to appear. (ie green on football field, sky blue on 911 am)..
CBS bought a PVI LVIS computer in 1999 for the Early Show (during which time 911 01 plane graphic was animated).Early Show is broadcast from GM building on 59 St. and 5th avenue, NYC."
[My note: the GM building is the location that's been identified as where the Empire State Building footage-angle was generated; which was aired by CBS on 9/11 and was later altered by PBS for usage in the 2003 documentaries referenced in the Smoke and Mirrors topics.]
"CBS network usedt PVI L-VIS computer for the EARLY SHOW in 2000. The PVI virtual insertion was. used on New Year’s Eve 1999 broadcast to insert a CBS logo of NBC logo, CBS PVI made news.
CBS Is Divided Over the Use Of False Images In Broadcasts By BILL CARTER Published: January 13, 2000
[My note: NYT, CNN, and digitalbroadcasting links available at the article site]
A mainstream network president had even warned in 2000 about fake plane crashes using CGI:

[Andrew Heyward, the president of CBS News,] said that he understood the argument against the use of the technology — which is widely employed in sports and some entertainment shows — on news programs. The danger is “that it looks too real and therefore it’s wrong or potentially wrong,” he said. “I certainly agree it’s potentially subject to abuse.”
He noted that advances in computer-generated techniques had made things like missiles hitting Baghdad and airplanes crashing look so real that it was incumbent on networks to underscore that these were not real images.

"Correction CBS bought the PVI L-VIS computer for the EARLY SHOW in 1999. The Early Show was moved from 524 W. 57th St. Broadcast Center to GM Building (also where Apple is) on 59th and 5th Ave. from which control room, the PVI plane graphic was generated. i took a class at PVI, Lawrenceville, NJ to learn to operate the PVI LVIS computer in 2007. On the 4th day, we learned to animate a graphic on a virtual path. That is when I learned that a PVI L-VIS computer generated the plane graphic. Another poster sent me the links to CBS logo story on the millenium broadcast and Andrew Heyward warned of corruption that might follow this technology being aired on TV."

My note: So, I plan to move a link for this post to the Smoke and Mirrors topic for the records there because I think we have now established, with the above info, that the Empire State Building angle discussed in that contentious controversy (and which was traced to coordinates of the GM builiding) was generated from the very same GM building where a PVI L-VIS computer was located; and that is also the same building where the CBS Early Show with Bryant Gumble is broadcast, which aired the alleged news footage of that questionable Empire State Building angle (where the approach of the plane image seemingly appears as if out of nowhere from behind that building or as if out of the blue from an inward point in the sky). Circumstantial evidence at this point, yes, but quite the notable coincidences -- the main one being the PVI L- VIS computer. More on the PVI L-VIS computer here: 911 was a PVI VIRTUAL PLANE GRAPHIC ANIMATION:

The system CBS used was developed by a United States company called Princeton Video Images (PVI). Other players in this field include Symah Vision - part of French defence to media group Lagadere; Israel-based Orad Hi Tech Systems, and SciDex, another Israeli firm with offices in Europe and the US. Each system, while similar, has its differences. None of the companies will publicly discuss how their's works. But the principle is common: each alters the live video image in the split second before it is broadcast.
"There is great potential to use virtual imaging in other ways but it remains a tool whose biggest advantage is for live broadcasting," Madge says. "There are obvious advantages in virtual studios as you don't need a physical set, just a blue screen against which the presenter is shot and a three-D computer model. You can change it over very quickly - there's no need to shift scenery.
CBS's problems arise from the fact that its use of the PVI system went one step further than "enhancing" the look of its presentation: it tampered with the reality of an actual event it was depicting in a news show, raising the spectre of TV news reporters reporting "live" from around the world when they're actually far closer to home. The broadcaster - which has also used virtual imaging to modify the New York cityscape - defended itself by insisting: 'CBS News' internal standards prohibit digital manipulation or other faking of news footage."
However, a CBS spokeswoman admitted that virtual insertion technology is yet to be covered by the broadcaster's guidelines. But Dan Rather, for one, thinks it should be. "At the very least we should have pointed out to viewers we were doing it,'' he told the New York Times. "I did not grasp the possible ethical implications of this and that was wrong on my part.''
CBS is not the only broadcaster to use this technology in news broadcasts. Rival ABC recently included a report on Congress by a reporter wearing an overcoat in front of what to viewers seemed to be the US Capitol. The entire report was taped in a studio.

My note: Links checked and working correctly at the time of this post.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-15 1:10:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#87. To: GreyLmist (#86)
My note: Links checked and working correctly at the time of this post.

You better cover your ass, you wouldn't want to lose your job over links not working.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2012-10-15 1:19:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#88. To: All, *9-11* (#86)
Ref. Smoke and Mirrors thread posts #85 and #86

See additional info at the link, 911 was a PVI VIRTUAL PLANE GRAPHIC ANIMATION, cited within Post #86.
Lining-their-Media Fakery Preparedness-ducks-up-in-a-row for 9/11 recap:

The CBS Early Show with Bryant Gumble moved to the General Motors Building in 1999 and CBS bought a PVI L-VIS computer for the Early Show, which it used for a 1999/2000 New Year's Eve Millenium Celebration stunt to insert a CBS logo over a NBC logo on the large screen in Times Square. A virtual CBS billboard replaced NBC's Astrovision video screen. CBS made the news with that PVI Media Fakery rehearsal. CBS is not the only broadcaster to use this technology in news broadcasts. Rival ABC recently included a report on Congress by a reporter wearing an overcoat in front of what to viewers seemed to be the US Capitol. The entire report was taped in a studio.

YouTube example at the above referenced link: 911 was a PVI VIRTUAL PLANE GRAPHIC ANIMATION
Article link path:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1060174013&postcount=89
Virtual Animation - PVI before 2011 - 911 animation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aikB7sUnbNA
Uploaded by 074August on May 29, 2011
PVI sold out to Sportvision and ESPN in Dec. 2010. This clip was from the PVI site before it was taken down.

More info at the Description section, reformatted here for easier reading and access:
Sportvision demos--more are at the sportvision site
http://bcove.me/rl7lh5s3
http://bcove.me/7c5bup4y
http://bcove.me/nr79aqcm
http://bcove.me/jgycx67o
http://bcove.me/cmenoyoh

http://www.sportvision.com/video.html + http://www.sportvision.com/pvi.html
Virtual Insertions
Sportvision now delivers all PVI products and services to both domestic and international markets, including virtual insertions during sports broadcasts as well as real-time virtual product integration for other on air entertainment.
CBS network bought PVI L-VIS computer for the EARLY SHOW in 2000. Used on New Year's Eve broadcast to insert a CBS logo of NBC logo, CBS PVI made news.
CBS owned a PVI LVIS computer in 2000:
CBS Is Divided Over the Use Of False Images In Broadcasts [Pgs. 1 and 2 of 2] http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/13/business/cbs-is-divided-over-the-use-of-false- images-in-broadcasts.html?src=pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/13/business/cbs-is-divided-over-the-use-of-false- images-in-broadcasts.html?pagewanted=2
Is It Live, Or Is It Princeton Video? PVI may have invented virtual advertising, but the company's slow start gave competitors some real openings.
By Abby Schultz July 1, 2000
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fsb/fsb_archive/2000/07/01/283715/index.htm
Cablevision Systems Corp. and Princeton Video Image Form Strategic Alliance; Princeton Video Image to Receive Cash Infusion of $17.5 Million in Equity and License Fees
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=102703&p=irol- newsArticle_print&ID=149841&highlight=
Cablevision invests in Princeton Video Image - February 5, 2001
http://www.digitalbroadcasting.com/article.mvc/Cablevision-invests-in-Princeton- Video-Image-0001
See, http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=158001
911 Plane Illusions are Op. Northwoods recycled
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=133535
The WTC was hollow, gutted before 9/11: no debris
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-15 2:35:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#89. To: RickyJ (#87) (Edited)
You better cover your ass, you wouldn't want to lose your job over links not working.

I don't get paid to do this, Ricky. Odd that both of those links were broke on the PVI info. Have noticed other anomalous problems lately too with trying to link info on the Gelitin art group in-residence within the WTC strikezone, et al. of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council, etc. Am noting here that all links in Post #88 were also checked and found to be working at posting time.
Why is it that you and Planers generally can't seem to discuss this alternate line of 9/11 investigations without resorting to immature mudslinging? It doesn't threaten sound scientific research regarding other issues. No Planes research supports that and also removes the pretext for the Wars overseas, as well as the pretext for Police State measures here since 9/11.
Edited for last sentence grammar and for paragraph 1, sentence 3 spelling.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-15 3:04:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#90. To: FormerLurker, ALL, (#52) (Edited)
To: GreyLmist
Edited for civility.
Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once:
Oh yeah, I guess all the gems right here on this thread where such editing didn't take place passed right by you right?
So if I called you an asshole, a pole smoker, a fuck head, etc., etc., etc., and told you to go fuck yourself and die, that'd be ok if I edited one post later on for the purpose of "civility", eh?
Your tactics are already quite obvious here GL. You're the "good cop", and titorite is the "bad cop". You'll try to act as if you're being polite and profesional, whereas your little sidekick will take the opposite approach.
If that's the game you want to play, it only demonstrates what the both of you are really here for.

Your words Former Lurker are total disinformation spin.

Complete and in total.

I am the one the edited for civility... I did so because I thought my words were over the top. And that I should tone it down a notch. I guess I have more crow to eat if you insist. Lord knows I try to mind the lines of civility online to a certain degree.....
Not with fuckers that endanger innocent bystanders like scum such as yourself former lurker but their are others around and I try to be mindful of them. The innocent that have nothing to do with you and I or anything at large should not be involved with you or I or anything at large.... I would not drag em into it and I would protect em from it.....

I mean this shit, this aint about my mom, this aint about your friends, this aint about our kids, but about 911..... and you, you former lurker, ... you would drag all those innocents into this for your own purposes .....

Withdraw from the movement.

Get help!

Edit to add:
I am a flawed individual. Obviously. My failings need no enumeration only my continual attention at correction and I try... I do my best that I can muster. This no planes thing though... there is no mistake in that regard...
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-10-15 3:38:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#91. To: GreyLmist, titorite, wudidiz, , *9-11* (#86)
911 was a PVI VIRTUAL PLANE GRAPHIC ANIMATION:

Uh huh. Sure it wasn't Sponge Bob going on tour of NY?
Again, you and your pals are trying to say that all television networks, their employees, including live news crew on the scene, as well as the first responders, survivors, and bystanders were all in on this massive hoax which was perpetrated while at the same time leading to the deaths of 3000 Americans.
Yep, sure they did.
You're even trying to say the victims were fake too, aren't you...
From the victims of the tower collapses, to the passengers and flight crews onboard the doomed airliners, you're saying they never existed, right?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-15 9:09:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#92. To: titorite (#90)
The more you post, the more obvious it becomes that you aren't who you say you are, and that you've tricked people here on this forum to gain their trust.
So which alphabet soup agency do you work for, eh?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-10-15 9:11:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#93. To: FormerLurker (#91) (Edited)
I've already told you before that you are overestimating the numbers of those involved knowingly and underestimating the actions of those who secretively went to War against us but you just keep robotically typing your obscurations. Why does the possibility that 3000 might not have died in plane strike illusions bother you or anyone? I think that should be considered a good thing. Who wouldn't think so? Warmongers, war profiteers, 9/11 Fund pirates... Tell us what you think happened regarding alleged Flt. 77, the passengers and flight crews reportedly onboard, and all who you think were involved with massively hoaxing us at the Pentagon, Partial No Planer/Sponge Bob on Tour manager.
Edited last sentence.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-10-15 13:05:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#94. To: All (#69)
More on the alleged witnesses in another post when I can relocate the info and put it here.

Some additional references about that topic listed at Post #7 of 4um Title: Eighty-Seven Eyewitness Accounts Before and After American Airlines Flight 77 Crashing Into The Pentagon
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2013-05-17 3:49:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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