4um: Rand Paul, Unions, Badly Mistaken

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Title: Rand Paul, Unions, Badly Mistaken
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Published: Jun 20, 2013
Author: Cynicom
Post Date: 2013-06-20 17:38:23 by Lod
Keywords: None
Views: 467
Comments: 25

On internet, Rand runs a forum that is virulent anti BIG LABOR...They are the cause of all of our problems in this country. Big labor is to blame for the endless wars, the huge national debt and the yearly budget deficit.
In his diatribe he neglects to mention that unions now represent less than ten per cent of American workers. Further, passes over the fact that most of the vile BIG LABOR UNIONS have nothing to do with LABOR.
Unions are now mostly government workers of all stripes and professional associations, such as teachers, college professors etc etc.
In my days as a child Lod, men were shot and killed because they wanted fair pay for their sweat and strong backs. Nobody was arrested, no one went to jail. The day unions are outlawed will be the day we all accept the yoke and chains. One has only to read about what happened in Russia a hundred years ago.
We all despise unions, but it is not for me or the government to deny a LABORING MAN TO HAVE A VOICE.
Walmart is the biggest human abuser on record. Six members of the Walton family have more wealth than the bottom 33 per cent of Americans in aggregate. They despise unions and use the government and taxpayers to subsidize their gathering of wealth. Their workers are so poor that the rest of us have to pay their medical bills, subsidize their housing, on and on.
Having been born, raised, and lived in the laboring lower class all my life, I have little truck with politicians that set their own pay, their own benefits and retirement, pound the podium, and rail about the union worker that have destroyed America.
Poster Comment:
Cyni gets it.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 21.
#2. To: Lod, Cyni peek a boo (#0)
Many young men and women that are trying to raise families today enter the war industry because so many jobs have been sent overseas.

noone222 posted on 2013-06-20 18:54:56 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#3. To: noone222 (#2)
because so many jobs have been sent overseas.

Because unions demanded such unreasonable contracts. Labor unions priced out American workers.

scrapper2 posted on 2013-06-20 19:35:56 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#5. To: scrapper2 (#3)
Labor unions priced out American workers.

No.
NAFTA, GATT, and other trade agreements made that HUGE sucking-sound that Perot warned would happen.
That, and the 35% corporate tax rate that has everyone going off-shore.

Lod posted on 2013-06-20 19:49:05 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#6. To: Lod (#5)
No.
NAFTA, GATT, and other trade agreements made that HUGE sucking-sound that Perot warned would happen.
That, and the 35% corporate tax rate that has everyone going off-shore.

Then why didn't non-unionized manufacturing jobs suffer the same fate as unionized jobs?
freebeacon.com/unions-rally-behind-amnesty
The Heritage Foundation found that nearly 80 percent of union manufacturing jobs vanished between 1975 and 2010, while nonunion manufacturing held steady at 11.8 million workers.

scrapper2 posted on 2013-06-20 19:56:14 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#8. To: scrapper2 (#6)
When people work for a wage that doesn't amount to enough to pay their bills and end up on food stamps, don't have health care, and ultimately not much of a life it makes unions necessary. Labor and management have been at each other's throat forever.
Slave labor (or a super low wage scale) is available in many countries where a union wouldn't be allowed, which doesn't mean that people whether in a union or not have priced themselves out of the market. Americans should develop their own economy and industry to suit the American way of life. Tariffs on imports would slow down consumption of slave labor goods.
The thought that we have to lower our standard of living in order to facilitate an economy is pure bullshit. We have over 300 million people in this country and did just fine without Chinese and / or Japanese imports (among many others).
I know we're supposed to believe that we're interdependent and that we need Chinese crap - that's another (globalist) fairytale.

noone222 posted on 2013-06-20 20:14:13 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#10. To: noone222, Lod (#8)
When people work for a wage that doesn't amount to enough to pay their bills and end up on food stamps, don't have health care, and ultimately not much of a life it makes unions necessary.

I think we're well past Dickinsonian times.
Unions served a need at the time. Not now. They do more harm than good.
These days jobs are opening up for non-unionized labor. On average non-unionized salaries are just 7% less than unionized salaries. Not exactly food stamp level of salary.
Small businesses are doing most of the hiring now. Big businesses when faced with outrageous demands either off-shored the jobs or they mechanized the jobs. Unions did not anticipate what big corporations would/could do - unions screwed their own dues paying members by being so greedy and clueless.
articles.washingtonpost.c...-factory-jobs-labor-union
snip
It used to be that factory jobs paid substantially better than other jobs in the private sector, particularly for workers who didn’t go to college. That’s less true today, especially for non-union workers in the industry, who earn salaries that are about 7 percent lower than similar workers who are represented by a union.
By one measure — average hourly earnings — a typical manufacturing worker now earns less than a typical private-sector worker of any industry. Throughout the 30 years before the recession, the reverse was the case.
The changes have very likely allowed U.S. manufacturers to compete better in the global economy, and in the process, to start hiring again. Conservative economists say that as U.S. companies pay workers less, the firms’ costs go down and they become more attractive to investors.
Unions, contends James Sherk, a senior policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation, have not been able to sell themselves as a “value proposition” in the manufacturing sector. “Unionized firms are not getting the investment,” he said. “Where investors see the opportunity is non-unionized firms.”...
Manufacturing is the industry that many Americans most associate with unions, but the industry has moved away from unionization for decades. There were 12.5 million non-union manufacturing workers in America last year, the same number there were in 1977. In contrast, there were 1.5 million employees represented by a union in 2012 — 6 million fewer than 1977.
By the end of last year, barely one in 10 U.S. manufacturing workers belonged to a union or was represented by one. Thirty years ago, that number was one in three...
It’s possible that recent manufacturing job creation was concentrated among smaller firms, which are less likely to be unionized.
Jared Bernstein, an economist at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and a former Obama adviser, theorizes that big manufacturing firms, which are more likely to employ union workers, can afford to invest in new automated equipment to help fill their demand. That would leave smaller firms to do the bulk of the industry hiring.
“Robots don’t join unions,” Bernstein said, “and smaller shops aren’t buying robots.”

scrapper2 posted on 2013-06-20 20:32:05 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#13. To: scrapper2 (#10)
These days jobs are opening up for non-unionized labor.

In China. The stats in Amerika do not support your claim.

noone222 posted on 2013-06-21 6:22:09 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#15. To: noone222 (#13)
The stats in Amerika do not support your claim.

What stats?
You haven't provided any stats so far.
You've just made unsupported claims and presented them as facts.

scrapper2 posted on 2013-06-21 15:48:05 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#16. To: scrapper2 (#15)
You haven't provided any stats so far.
You've just made unsupported claims and presented them as facts.

If you need me to give you unemployment and record food stamp recipient stats ... you might turn on the radio, TV, or read a newspaper.

noone222 posted on 2013-06-21 18:43:29 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#21. To: noone222, Cynicom, F.A. Hayek Fan (#16)
Like I said previously, you have no stats to support your statements. All you have is Cynicom whispering in your ear about when he was a tyke so long ago walking 100,000 miles to war in his draftee uniform - uh huh....come out, come out where ever you are, cynicommunist...

scrapper2 posted on 2013-06-22 5:23:21 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
Replies to Comment # 21.
#24. To: scrapper2 (#21)
Are you ignorant of the unemployment numbers across the country ? The foreclosure numbers ? There is no recovery - oops, maybe you haven't heard that we're in a recession. Every major city in America with very few exceptions has very high unemployment that's under reported but 50 million Americans are reported to be receiving food stamps.
If you think I'm going to do research of the OBVIOUS to refute your completely bogus claim of increased employment you're wrong.

noone222 posted on 2013-06-22 05:46:24 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
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