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Title: Rand Paul on Bradley Manning Verdict: “I don’t have a lot of sympathy”
Source: ECONOMIC POLICY JOURNAL
URL Source: http://www.economicpolicyjournal.co ... bradley-manning-verdict-i.html
Published: Aug 20, 2013
Author: ROBERT WENZEL
Post Date: 2013-08-20 09:48:40 by Artisan
Ping List: *RAND PAUL*     Subscribe to *RAND PAUL*
Keywords: None
Views: 1290
Comments: 92

There's terrible news out about Rand Paul and comments he has made about Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden.

At a Cato University event, Rand stated that there need to be some laws that protect certain secrets and that Manning put many lives at risk by releasing millions of pages “willy-nilly,” reports DL Magazine.

“There do have to be laws to protect some secrets. I think if you’ve got the, you know, the plans on how to make a nuclear bomb that is a state secret. If you give that to the enemy, that is being treasonous,” said Rand, “Even if you reveal it, you just have to have laws against that. What Manning did was just willy-nilly, just released millions of pages of things and I think some people have said there is potentially some harm from that. You know individual agents that could have been killed or put at risk from this. So there is a problem with that. So I just can’t support that.”

“If you are doing something for a political purpose; you know, in fact, in some ways the Snowden case is a little bit different,” said Paul, “But even with the Snowden case, I still think you have to have laws against what he did. So he did break the law.”

His continued his comments about Snowden in an even more muddled fashion, attempting to hide is views by saying what others might do and not showing any strong support for Snowden

“Snowden, if he were here, could maybe make the defense ‘Well I released this information because I’m a whistle blower. I’m telling you the head of the intelligence agency isn’t telling the truth. So I’m correcting a lie by another official.’ Some have said he would have had an easier time with that argument if he had come to a member of Congress and gone through the official whistleblower, kind of, pathway,” said Paul, “I think they still would have probably put him in jail and thrown away the key.”

DL reported on reaction from the libertarian community on Rand's comments.

The District of Columbia’s Libertarian Party Chairman, Ryan Sabot stated that Rand's “attempts to wipe away credibility, gravity, and value of both Snowden and Manning’s leaks by Senator Paul are distasteful.”

Jayel Aheram, blogger for Young Americans for Liberty, said that he was"disappointed that Sen. Rand Paul chose repeat the lie that Manning’s release and Wikileaks’ publication of the diplomatic cables harmed people. Brig. General Robert Carr, the man who was in charge of the Pentagon’s review of the leaks, admitted during Manning’s trial that no one was killed or harmed by the release of the cables."

Young Americans for Liberty NY State Chair, Taweh Beysolow II said:

It’s very obvious to me that Senator Paul would be against what Bradley Manning and Snowden did simply because he is a politician who has presidential aspirations within the Republican Party. The broad conservative movement does not have sympathy, nor feels empathy for either of these individuals because they feel as if they betrayed this country to some degree, despite how much it works against the Obama administration to their pleasure.Again, it serves more as a reminder that Senator Paul will most likely mimic a George Bush presidency rather than the ideal pie in the sky dream of a libertarian president in my opinion. Subscribe to *RAND PAUL*

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#1. To: Artisan (#0)

Once they put on the beanie, put them out.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-08-20   10:00:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Lod (#1)

Sir Lod...

I am not given to obscene nor profane language as a rule.

However, there are times and people that warrant such reactions.

This SOB needs to be exposed for his real self and FOR HIS INTENTIONS.

His Father gave us Obama for eight long years that have accelerated us in this long spiral into chaos.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-08-20   10:17:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Lod (#1)

Readers need to keep in mind that the Walton family members hold more wealth than the bottom thirty per cent of us at the bottom of the social ladder.

Below is from Salon awhile ago.

"Haven’t workers suffered enough? Just last week, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that in 2010 only 6.9 percent of the private sector work force were union members. Throw in government workers, and the number pops up to 11.9 percent, but both figures represent 70-year lows. For all intents and purposes, the power of organized labor has been broken in the United States. Rand Paul is kicking a beaten cur.

In 1948, for comparison purposes, 31 percent of the U.S. workforce was unionized. But the writing was already on the wall. In 1947, after Republicans won majorities in both the House and Senate, they passed the Taft-Hartley Act over a Harry Truman veto, severely restricting labor’s ability to organize and strike.

Not uncoincidentally, the era of Big Labor’s most accelerated decline, which more or less began when Ronald Reagan broke the air traffic controller’s strike in 1981, maps to growing income inequality in the United States. Imagine that! ......Less power for workers translates into a greater concentration of wealth at the top of the pyramid in the United States........ Karl Marx would never have predicted such a turn of events.

So here’s Rand Paul, hero of the Tea Party, great defender of liberty, doing his best to ensure that inequality continues to expand, and that workers continue to get ground under the heel of Big Capital. Because it’s been working out so well for us, all these years.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-08-20   10:46:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Cynicom (#2)

I believe that the Pauls have fully earned whatever invectives you want to toss their way; personally, I am through with'em.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-08-20   10:56:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Cynicom (#2)

I am not given to obscene nor profane language as a rule.

However, there are times and people that warrant such reactions.

i agree...and Rand Paul is deserving. i find this much more loathesome than i do the behavior of those who are open about their anti-liberty positions.

christine  posted on  2013-08-20   11:03:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Cynicom (#2)

His Father gave us Obama for eight long years that have accelerated us in this long spiral into chaos.

I am not given to obscene nor profane language as a rule either, but this line here is complete BULLSHIT!

This nation got the exact reflection of itself and it could get no different. Seriously, you think ol' Mittens would have been a "better" option? Both were bought and paid for by Goldman Sachs. A choice of whores and you blame the non whore option? And you actually think continuing to pick from same lame choices is going to make an improvement after all these years Cyni?

The third party option had nothing to do with what we got. Limiting the options to TWO who are bought by the same corporate interests is no improvement. This nation will continue to get the same level of psychosis to which it exists at the voter level until we actually take responsibility and own what our government is doing in our name. This nation is not a "victim" of chaos. It creates it from individual to government. The greatest insanity is to pick the "lesser evil" and then blame a non evil choice for what you got....

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-08-20   11:15:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: abraxas (#6)

Excellent points.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-08-20   12:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine, Lod (#5)

From Cleveland Plain Dealer..

" May Day was first celebrated as an international day of labor in New York in the 1880s. Hitler made it an official paid holiday, not just a negotiated day off, on May 1, 1933 -- and used it to rally for his regime and industrialization. William Shirer (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich), who was there, called it "an elaborate piece of trickery."

The next day, on May 2, 1933, unions were dissolved, their assets were confiscated, their offices were occupied and their leaders were arrested. Hitler then outlawed strikes, abolished collective bargaining and established the German Labor Front, a corrupt party organization."

Stalin did not have to worry about labor unions, Lenin had done away with them years before. Many Americans will cheer the day the last union worker is thrown into the Gulag. What a great day? Really? Who is next??

Cynicom  posted on  2013-08-20   12:26:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Cynicom (#8)

Who is next??

The other 90% of us unless we can turn things around here.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-08-20   13:05:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Lod (#9)

The other 90% of us unless we can turn things around here.

The people of Russia, Germany, Italy and China failed, untold millions died.

White Americans have no voice, they are next.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-08-20   15:14:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Lod (#7)

Thanks Loddy. : ) I hope you have a lovely day.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-08-20   15:18:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Artisan (#0)

What Manning did was just willy-nilly, just released millions of pages of things and I think some people have said there is potentially some harm from that.

This is a blatant lie on the part of Rand and the government. Neither Bradley Manning nor wikileaks were indiscriminate in what was leaked or published.

strepsiptera  posted on  2013-08-20   15:46:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Artisan (#0)

If you give that to the enemy, that is being treasonous,”

Even the prosecution sympathizing judge had to throw out this charge because it would have criminalized all reporting by the media on security and defense related issues.

strepsiptera  posted on  2013-08-20   15:49:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Artisan (#0)

Well now that we can all agree on the certainty of this asshole being a total asshole and america being totally lost does anyone have any good suggestions to help us find our way?

I found putting up card board billboard has been effective to reaching the masses....just saying.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-08-20   19:34:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Artisan, 4 (#0)

Jayel Aheram, blogger for Young Americans for Liberty, said that he was"disappointed that Sen. Rand Paul chose repeat the lie that Manning’s release and Wikileaks’ publication of the diplomatic cables harmed people. Brig. General Robert Carr, the man who was in charge of the Pentagon’s review of the leaks, admitted during Manning’s trial that no one was killed or harmed by the release of the cables."

Aheram and Carr are jive talking. Manning and Wikileaks released battle plans and equipment info. The supposed "harmless diplomatic cables" shtick is being used as cover to camouflage those maneuvers. Who really knows how many people were killed or harmed (probably not Carr) because of their abstract and ritualistic, propaganda-marketing for money and fame, war escalation and to get vengeance over the Military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy -- not concerns for Iraqi casualties or anyone else.

Posts 9-15 at 4um Title: Gerald Celente "everything is ok, everything is ok"

If every whistleblower is to expect that they'll be lumped in somehow with Manning and Assange, that's a deterrent.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-08-20   20:01:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: christine (#5)

TRAITOR.

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. - Dr. Eldon Tyrell

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2013-08-20   21:21:53 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Esso (#16)

traitor is right.

christine  posted on  2013-08-21   0:02:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Esso (#16)

That's the wall of a ROMAN FORT, it has nothing to do with jewiness.

“With the exception of Whites, the rule among the peoples of the world, whether residing in their homelands or settled in Western democracies, is ethnocentrism and moral particularism: they stick together and good means what is good for their ethnic group."
-Alex Kurtagic

X-15  posted on  2013-08-21   0:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Artisan (#0)

I lost confidence of Rand Paul after he came out in support of Mitt Romney instead of Ron Paul. I donated about $2,000 to help him get elected. However, after that, I have been unwilling to make any further donations.

Rand Paul cannot get elected President because the powers in control don't really trust him and already they have started their smear tactics against him. As it gets close to 2016, if it appears he might be in the running, the mainstream will be lying, omitting any favorable news about him, and smearing him 24/7, similar to how Ron Paul was treated.

DWornock  posted on  2013-11-16   1:49:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: DWornock (#19)

I lost confidence of Rand Paul after he came out in support of Mitt Romney instead of Ron Paul.

Say what?

Rand Paul endorsed Romney after Romney was selected as the GOP's Prez candidate.

Rand Paul did not endorse Romney while his father still had hopes to be the GOP's Prez candidate.

scrapper2  posted on  2013-11-16   2:27:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: DWornock (#19)

that was sure nice of you to give rand $2000 at that time. He's lost a lot of credibility since then among ron's core supporters. My wife still teases me about wasting $100 on ron paul in 2007, the only money i ever gave to any politician. ;-)

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2013-11-16   2:41:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: scrapper2 (#20)

thats not how it was viewed at the time. ron had not called it quits , he'd just scaled back to 'focus on key states (supposedly). he also admonished people for criticizing mitt. Rons genuine base viewed rands act as the ultimate betrayal, which it was.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2013-11-16   2:45:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Artisan (#22)

Uh huh. Whatever.

"Well, you know, my first choice had always been my father. ... He is still my first pick," Paul said, according to a rush transcript of the appearance. "But now that the nominating process is over, tonight, I am happy to announce I am supporting Governor Romney."

scrapper2  posted on  2013-11-16   2:47:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Artisan (#0)

Snowden is a hero. What Snowden did was reveal that the NSA was openly violating the 4th amendment to the Constitution! He was indeed reporting only on illegal activities the NSA was engaged in against American citizens. The info about spying on allies only came out after he was denied asylum by those same nations. He was letting them know just how much of an ally the USA really considered them as being.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-11-16   3:00:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Artisan (#22)

thats not how it was viewed at the time. ron had not called it quits , he'd just scaled back to 'focus on key states (supposedly). he also admonished people for criticizing mitt. Rons genuine base viewed rands act as the ultimate betrayal, which it was.

Yes it was indeed the ultimate betrayal. Anyone that would do that to their own father would have no problem doing the same to someone he is unrelated to. Romney was a joke candidate meant to give Obama another four years. Ron never endorsed Romney because he knew he was no different than Obama, and if possible, even worse than Obama.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-11-16   3:08:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: RickyJ (#25)

You don't think Rand had Ron's okay? Ron was out of contention. How is Rand's olive leaf to Romney a betrayal to Ron?

scrapper2  posted on  2013-11-16   3:13:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: christine, esso (#17)

Manning/Snowden are present-day Paul Reveres and this is the best Rand can do. Sad.

Deasy  posted on  2013-11-16   4:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Artisan, All, All Adults, All Taxpayers (#0)

Rand stated that there need to be some laws that protect certain secrets

I've been lied to by the U.S. Govt most of my life. The lies have out numbered the truths ever since the CIA (and others) murdered JFK. (I was 13 when Kennedy was gunned down and I'm sure the govt was lying long before that but I wasn't aware).

We have never been treated as adults living in a free and transparent country by the U.S. Govt. Maybe that's because we never acted like adults. We have allowed the liars and thieves that occupy the offices of power to get away with this secrecy and outright lies for so long that it's become their modus operandi.

The secrecy and lies told us by the govt are usually considered by them to be a national security requirement despite our having been the greatest super power on earth at least since 1945 and the end of WW II.

Their lies and secrecy are paid for by the taxpayers. This is tantamount to buying your enemy a gun so he can kill you. It's suicidal.

Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin ... blah, blah, blah. If the plumber came to your home and destroyed your plumbing so that your house was flooded would you pay him ? If the fire department came to your house and threw gasoline on the flames would you call them the next time you had a fire ? If you hired a babysitter only to find your kids slaughtered and laying in pools of blood in their beds when you returned home, would you pay the babysitter and take her/him home ?

Well, I think when Americans gather a little backbone and start acting like adults then they may have some chance to live free from the bullies in D.C. We don't have to tolerate their bullying, their lies, their lies about lies, their spying on our every activity, their wars that kill and maim our youth, their banker bailout thefts that caused millions of foreclosures, their treason that has provided control of our monetary system that allegedly finances wars that have indebted our great, great, great, grand-children (if they survive the vaccines that the govt has allowed immunity for BIG PHARMA when they cause death or autism) so that we might ENJOY $4.00 gasoline today. [Gimme a break].

Children often tolerate extensive abuse at the hands of cruel adults. Often, even children are smart enough to run away from home. What is really wrong with Americans ? Why are we allowing these criminal bullies to even exist ?

Personally, I think it's time for Americans to grow up and stop cowering before the bully U.S. Govt. and voting for the new boss same as the old boss. It's unamerican to vote for or fund these butchers. It's really that simple and the inconvenience or harm incurred is the cost of freedom. What you save today by paying them tribute or by lying to avoid it is only a temporary measure. These criminals are coming for everything we have ever imagined we owned and our imagined liberty ... and they couldn't care less about the "rules" !

Just say no to drugs and FUCK YOU to Uncle Sambo !

noone222  posted on  2013-11-16   6:09:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: noone222 (#28)

Personally, I think it's time for Americans to grow up and stop cowering before the bully U.S. Govt. and voting for the new boss same as the old boss.

Hear hear....

Vote and you are legitimizing this criminally corrupt government.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   8:59:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: noone222 (#28)

cor·ruptness n.

Synonyms: corrupt, debase, debauch, deprave, pervert, vitiate

These verbs mean to ruin utterly in character or quality: was corrupted by limitless power;

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   9:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Artisan, 4 (#0)

There do have to be laws to protect some secrets. - Rand Paul

I'd like to know which Manning & Snowden secrets, to date, Rand Paul objects to?

Rand is the ultimate Trojan Jew.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2013-11-16   9:15:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Cynicom, noone222 (#30)

Until most see it thisaway there's not much hope for change. Up with skepticism.

Deasy  posted on  2013-11-16   9:21:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Jethro Tull (#31)

Rand is the ultimate Trojan Jew.

Olde Ron was the sly one.

Always when asked if he was in favor of foreign aid to Israel, olde Ron replied, "I am against all foreign aid".

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   9:29:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Lod (#1)

Once they put on the beanie, put them out.

those 9 words say it all.

To question is to value the ideal of truth more highly than the loyalties to nation, religion, race, or ideology.

christine  posted on  2013-11-16   9:55:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Deasy (#32)

well, hello there! ;)

To question is to value the ideal of truth more highly than the loyalties to nation, religion, race, or ideology.

christine  posted on  2013-11-16   10:03:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: abraxas (#6)

The third party option had nothing to do with what we got. Limiting the options to TWO who are bought by the same corporate interests is no improvement. This nation will continue to get the same level of psychosis to which it exists at the voter level until we actually take responsibility and own what our government is doing in our name. This nation is not a "victim" of chaos. It creates it from individual to government. The greatest insanity is to pick the "lesser evil" and then blame a non evil choice for what you got....

I couldn't have stated that any better.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-16   10:43:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: RickyJ (#24)

Snowden is a hero.

I agree with that. So does Judge Andrew Napolitano.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-16   10:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: noone222 (#28)

Personally, I think it's time for Americans to grow up and stop cowering before the bully U.S. Govt. and voting for the new boss same as the old boss. It's unamerican to vote for or fund these butchers. It's really that simple and the inconvenience or harm incurred is the cost of freedom. What you save today by paying them tribute or by lying to avoid it is only a temporary measure. These criminals are coming for everything we have ever imagined we owned and our imagined liberty ... and they couldn't care less about the "rules" !

Just say no to drugs and FUCK YOU to Uncle Sambo !

Great post and you summed it all up very well.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-16   10:51:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Cynicom (#33)

Always when asked if he was in favor of foreign aid to Israel, olde Ron replied, "I am against all foreign aid".

Yes, how sly to have a principle and conviction that applies to all foreign aid and sticking to it. Our Constitution has no provisions for foreign aid and it really is sly is to stick to the Constitution consistently. There really is something sinister about following the Constitution and sticking to principles, even more sinister to do so consistently.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-16   10:54:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Cynicom (#33)

Always when asked if he was in favor of foreign aid to Israel, olde Ron replied, "I am against all foreign aid".

And just what, exactly, is wrong with that? That would have been my answer too. Nowhere does the Constitution authorize the theft from Americans to pass out foreign aid to other countries. As far as the politicians stealing from Americans to give to other governments it is not theirs to give.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-16   10:59:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: abraxas, James Deffenbach (#39)

Abs...James...

A great deal of our brainwashing and programming has been via the art of omission.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   11:23:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Cynicom (#41)

I know that but I still don't know what you found so wrong in Ron's reply. He showed himself to be even handed and that he had some principles. At least that is how I understood it.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-16   11:44:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: James Deffenbach (#42)

I know that but I still don't know what you found so wrong in Ron's reply.

James...

The questions asked were always of the definitive type, requiring only a yes or no answer.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   12:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Cynicom, abraxas, James Deffenbach (#41)

A great deal of our brainwashing and programming has been via the art of omission.

THAT is a great point and very very valid.

You don't know what you don't know. The whores of the lamestream media, particularly Limp-paw, are expert at omitting (or pooh poohing) critical data which helps to paint a clearer picture.

The lie of omission is the most insidious of all. When people draw conclusions on false data, with the omission of true data, they can, and do, reach screwy conclusions - by what appears to them to be sound logic.

If "everybody" knows that Osama did 911 then there is no need to look for the omitted data.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from evil. ~ Unk (Paraphrase of Clarke's 3rd Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.")

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-11-16   12:10:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Original_Intent (#44)

It was upon my admission to the military at age 18 that I started questioning what I was told, and searching for what was omitted.

Many times what I heard was not true, often what I saw was neither real nor true.

When any politician claims the high ground as his platform, it behooves the lesser humans to cast a wary eye and ear.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   12:30:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Cynicom (#43)

James...

The questions asked were always of the definitive type, requiring only a yes or no answer.

Yes, and you know as well as I do that if Ron had answered a specific question about foreign aid to Israel with a simple yes or no answer--and the answer would be no of course if you are against all foreign aid--then he would have been painted as an anti-Semite. That is why they didn't ask about foreign aid in general.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-16   13:25:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Cynicom (#41)

A great deal of our brainwashing and programming has been via the art of omission.

Such as an omission of any or all other nations in relation to foreign aid? You want to nit pick on Israel for what ever reason but the principle is that ALL foreign aid is wrong. Ron Paul makes no such omissions and consistently applies the principle of no foreign aid and no exceptions.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-16   14:24:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Cynicom (#43) (Edited)

The questions asked were always of the definitive type, requiring only a yes or no answer.

The answer lies in a principle that applies to all nations with no exceptions for foreign aid and our Constitution. You don't educate people about a principle unless you address it directly and consistently. Yet, you somehow construe this as sly and underhanded, which makes NO sense.

He one of the few politicians to take a stand on foreign aid consistently. Why don't you find any fault with the politicians who never question and consistently steal from American tax payers to send it to foreign aid all over the world? Do you not understand the principle should apply to all other nations with no sacred cow exceptions?

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-16   14:28:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: James Deffenbach (#46)

Yes, and you know as well as I do that if Ron had answered a specific question about foreign aid to Israel with a simple yes or no answer--and the answer would be no of course if you are against all foreign aid--then he would have been painted as an anti-Semite. That is why they didn't ask about foreign aid in general.

All I know is that Paul has never answered the questions, for whatever reasons.

Doing thus paints anyone into the realm of professional politician.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   14:46:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: abraxas (#47)

I usually refrain answering negative "you" posts.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   14:47:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Cynicom (#50)

I usually refrain answering negative "you" posts.

When you make statements, you should be prepared to answer questions regarding those statements. And, there is nothing negative in the questions posed to you. Making statements and answering questions regarding your statements is the basic premise that drives discussion forums.

I have noted this is a frequent response to any questions regarding logical fallacies within your statements. I don't know who you wish for me to address when it is you who makes the questionable statements and opinions. Since you make the statements, you is logically the appropriate pronoun.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-16   14:54:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: abraxas (#51)

Abs...

It does take consideration and adeptness to refrain from using negative accusatory language.

Attacking posters here is not in my interest and would gain me nothing. Keeping any social discourse on a civil level is preferable.

Otherwise BOZO is available for those that find some postings objectionable. If time avails me, I try to peruse everyone, even Turtle.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-16   15:02:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: abraxas, Cynicom (#51)

Atta Girl! Hold your position in space. :-)

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from evil. ~ Unk (Paraphrase of Clarke's 3rd Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.")

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-11-16   15:03:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Cynicom (#52)

It does take consideration and adeptness to refrain from using negative accusatory language.

Attacking posters

Please specify exactly what you deem to be "negative accusatory language" in my posts to you.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-16   15:08:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Cynicom (#52)

It does take consideration and adeptness to refrain from using negative accusatory language.

It appears you are circling away from the initial questions regarding the logical fallacies in your statements. Asking you questions about your comments isn't negative. Why are you attempting to make this personal? What is uncivil in any of my discourse to you? Why make a comment if not to discuss it on a discussion forum?

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-16   15:13:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Cynicom (#49) (Edited)

All I know is that Paul has never answered the questions, for whatever reasons.

He DID answer the question, said he was against ALL foreign aid. Naturally that would include Israel but it doesn't exclude any other nation. The reporter(s) wanted Ron to answer that question with a "Yes, I am against foreign aid to Israel." And Ron knew how they would have spun that and didn't bite. The man is not a fool and he would have been foolish to answer the question the way they (and it seems you) wanted him to.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-16   16:37:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Cynicom, abraxas, James Deffenbach, All (#49)

#33: Olde Ron was the sly one. Always when asked if he was in favor of foreign aid to Israel, olde Ron replied, "I am against all foreign aid".

#41: A great deal of our brainwashing and programming has been via the art of omission.

#43: The questions asked were always of the definitive type, requiring only a yes or no answer.

#49: All I know is that Paul has never answered the questions, for whatever reasons. Doing thus paints anyone into the realm of professional politician.

Your charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true, Cynicom.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   0:04:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Cynicom, abraxas, James Deffenbach, All (#57) (Edited)

charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true

Ron Paul: Cut Foreign Aid, Unshackle Israel, Leave Iran Alone - FOX interview at 1:49-2:57 of 6.25 minute video

Uploaded on Aug 12, 2011

From the Transcript at ronpaul.com for the FOX interview above:

News Anchor: Our viewers ask better questions than I do, so let me get right to some of them, talking about where you stand. Don Peterson in Hemet, California wants to know, “Where does Mr. Paul stand on Israel? He seems to have dodged the question [every time] he’s been asked.”

Ron Paul: I disagree with him, because I don’t. We should be friends with Israel, and I don’t think we do a very good job at it. But I don’t think giving money to our friends is the right thing to do. I’m against all foreign aid, and if we cut out all the foreign aid today we would cut out 7 times more foreign aid from the enemies of Israel. But I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel. I want Israel to have their own national sovereignty. I don’t want them to depend on us either for the money which socializes their economy and they’re in financial trouble as well, and I don’t want them to depend on us to tell them how to draw up their peace treaties or what to do with their borders. So yes, we should have friendship with them, we should trade with them, but total dependence on United States and on our money is a bad risk for them because we’re in bankruptcy. We’re not going to be there forever, we are going to come home and I think their dependency on us is very, very harmful to them.

Ron Paul against foreign aid to Israel - 1 minute video

Uploaded on Dec 5, 2011

Ron Paul against foreign aid to Israel at the CNN National Security Debate

Ron Paul: Foreign Policy & Israel - 4:32 to 5:19 of 7 minute video interview by Jack Hunter

Uploaded on Dec 8, 2011

Ron Paul on Isreal, Foreign Aid and U.S. Foreign Policy - 10 minute video of a reading from Ron Paul's book, The Revolution: A Manifesto, based on written notes during his 2008 presidential campaign.

Israel and Foreign Aid at start to 3:10

Edit to add Quote section and spacing + bracketed correction at the Transcription section, paragraph 1.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   4:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: GreyLmist (#58)

Ron Paul: I disagree with him, because I don’t. We should be friends with Israel, and I don’t think we do a very good job at it. But I don’t think giving money to our friends is the right thing to do. I’m against all foreign aid, and if we cut out all the foreign aid today we would cut out 7 times more foreign aid from the enemies of Israel. But I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel. I want Israel to have their own national sovereignty. I don’t want them to depend on us either for the money which socializes their economy and they’re in financial trouble as well, and I don’t want them to depend on us to tell them how to draw up their peace treaties or what to do with their borders. So yes, we should have friendship with them, we should trade with them, but total dependence on United States and on our money is a bad risk for them because we’re in bankruptcy. We’re not going to be there forever, we are going to come home and I think their dependency on us is very, very harmful to them.

Uhhhh...

Lot of words there. Heard it many times, never a yes or no. Ron always sounds a lot like a professional politician.

OBFUSCATE

Verb 1. obfuscate - make obscure or unclearobfuscate - make obscure or unclear

alter, change, modify - cause to change; make different; cause a transformation

One of them even gives an example of someone that is an expert at such...DOCTORS...

Find me a plain olde yes or no. No obfuscation allowed.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   4:42:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: GreyLmist (#57)

Your charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true, Cynicom.

Charges????

Good heavens.

Lets keep this impersonal and in proper perspective.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   4:44:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Cynicom (#60)

Your charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true, Cynicom.

Charges????

Charges...False Accusations. Take your pick of those phrasings.

Good heavens.

Lets keep this impersonal and in proper perspective.

Do try to keep Ron Paul in proper perspective enough to not misdirect others by distorting historical facts in the process of your smear campaignings against him. If you wanted to keep it impersonal, you would not try to avoid taking responsibility for what you've mistakenly asserted accusingly about him by turning the focus away from a countering of that and flipping it into an affront against you personally somehow because the counterpoint addresses you at all. Really, Cynicom, if you're seriously all that rankled by the word "you", it's impractical in the extreme to expect debate formats to be reprimanded into specially conforming for you, per your Sensitivity Training instructions, and reply as if they're speaking to The Great and Powerful Oz or whatever instead.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   7:13:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Cynicom (#60)

Charges????

How does it feel to be our very own Eddie Slovik ??????

Jethro Tull  posted on  2013-11-17   7:27:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Jethro Tull (#62)

How does it feel to be our very own Eddie Slovik ??????

I do know something of what he must have felt, but could not reconcile his regard for his own life, with the raw power of those that were not in his shoes.

As a twenty year olde, I attended my first NSA provided briefing as a nuclear crew member. It became very plain, even to a dumb kid, that they were talking about a one way trip, one upon which they would be staying home.

They would provide us with a .45 and one clip. It did not take a genius to connect the dots.

What arrogant bastards, just doing their duty of course.

Quit, refuse????? Not allowed. Refuse and we will crush you like a grape.

Did two 90 day tours, on duty 24/7. Either flying or drunk most of the time. Duty free Seagrams VO was $11.00 a case, ten bottles in a wooden case.

I do not take to much stock in people that talk a lot, but have never been there, never did that.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   9:05:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Jethro Tull (#62)

Jethro, an addendum...

When the war ended, I told them I wanted off, another job in that field.

Answer, no. Russia was still there. Here is where one has to look out for themselves.

I was told to refrain or they would bust me to buck private. That made me happy so I said bust away, knowing full well that the job I held, by regulations could not be held by a private. That really soiled their briefs.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   9:20:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Cynicom (#59)

Uhhhh...

Lot of words there. Heard it many times, never a yes or no. Ron always sounds a lot like a professional politician.

OBFUSCATE

[...]

Find me a plain olde yes or no. No obfuscation allowed.

Professional Obfuscation is the paid poster realm you are painting yourself into on Ron Paul issues. Go try to find what you've ordered from me. It's not his answers that are evasive/non-existant (as you asserted at #49) but your premises that are wrong, and that has already been demonstrated. Ron Paul was not asked a yes or no question in the transcribed example (as you claimed at #43 they all were) but where he stood on Israel and he very clearly addressed in 7 words among those statements what his position was on Foreign Aid to Israel and then why. All you are proving is that he could say or do nothing to your liking and that you have nothing good to say about him -- even to the point that you seem to care more about imprinting bad impressions of him on people by slinging mud than you do about veracity. There's actually some terminology for that as a manipulative media tactic but it will take me a while to look that up. Will post it when I find it again. In the meantime, who do you suggest as a modern role model Constitutionally for the generations after yours, since you apparently are mission-bound to deny us even one of our own choosing if it's Ron Paul? Try to think of someone besides Jimmy Hoffa or whatever other Union Industry affiliates you esteem.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   9:21:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: GreyLmist (#65)

Condense that down a bit and I will try to read it.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   9:38:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Jethro Tull, Cynicom (#62)

Charges????

JT to Cynicom: How does it feel to be our very own Eddie Slovik ??????

More flippin' Cynicom-VicSimming when the issue was his charges/false accusations against Ron Paul, not charges against Cynicom.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   9:39:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Cynicom (#66) (Edited)

No. This is just a brainwashing game to you, not a political discussion. You've already shown in another thread that it doesn't really matter to you if someone posts only one short sentence of corrective facts about Ron Paul.

Edited for formatting.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   10:02:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: GreyLmist, cynicom (#68)

Pauls prefer long careers walking thin lines.

Deasy  posted on  2013-11-17   10:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Cynicom (#59)

OBFUSCATE

Verb 1. obfuscate - make obscure or unclearobfuscate - make obscure or unclear

I've note in life that what one judges in another, especially zealously and continually despite clear evidence to the contrary, it is actually a projection of an issue that person owns and needs to personally address. There is obfuscation on this thread but it isn't coming from Ron Paul......

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-17   10:58:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Cynicom, All (#65) (Edited)

Find me a plain olde yes or no. No obfuscation allowed.

Rather than condense this post a bit, which would likely still be ignored by Cynicom on the Ron Paul campaign issues anyway, I edited it to expand the second sentence for bracketed clarification, then removed a word in another to make two sentences instead of one for simplicity. Bolded the requests at the paragraph closing on the off-chance there might be a quick read and sincere reply from him on that much, since it's more generally about role models of Constitutionality in the modern era:

Professional Obfuscation is the paid poster realm you are painting yourself into on Ron Paul issues. Go try to find [evidence for your claims instead of ordering surfing assignments for me]. It's not his answers that are evasive/non-existant (as you asserted at #49) but your premises that are wrong, and that has already been demonstrated. Ron Paul was not asked a yes or no question in the transcribed example (as you claimed at #43 they all were) but where he stood on Israel. He very clearly addressed in 7 words among those statements what his position was on Foreign Aid to Israel and then why. All you are proving is that he could say or do nothing to your liking and that you have nothing good to say about him -- even to the point that you seem to care more about imprinting bad impressions of him on people by slinging mud than you do about veracity. There's actually some terminology for that as a manipulative media tactic but it will take me a while to look that up. Will post it when I find it again. In the meantime, who do you suggest as a modern role model Constitutionally for the generations after yours, since you apparently are mission-bound to deny us even one of our own choosing if it's Ron Paul? Try to think of someone besides Jimmy Hoffa or whatever other Union Industry affiliates you esteem.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   12:16:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Deasy (#69)

Pauls prefer long careers walking thin lines.

True..

Olde Ron was one of the original "term limits" politicians.

Then he caught the "fever" and was elected a total of eleven times.

Olde Ron was a gold bug. Well, kind of, he bought into about a dozen mining companies and left Congress a multi millionaire. Original success story.

Now he is panning the rubes one more time for gold.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   12:36:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: GreyLmist, Cynicom, all (#58)

I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel. I want Israel to have their own national sovereignty. I don’t want them to depend on us either for the money which socializes their economy and they’re in financial trouble as well, and I don’t want them to depend on us to tell them how to draw up their peace treaties or what to do with their borders. So yes, we should have friendship with them, we should trade with them, but total dependence on United States and on our money is a bad risk for them because we’re in bankruptcy. We’re not going to be there forever, we are going to come home and I think their dependency on us is very, very harmful to them.

What I would like to know is HOW he could have answered that question any better or more decisively. Seems perfectly clear to me.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-17   12:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: James Deffenbach (#73)

What I would like to know is HOW he could have answered that question any better or more decisively. Seems perfectly clear to me.

I took the time to count the words used by olde Ron.

One hundred and twenty four words, if my counter is correct.

Neither decisively nor definitive.

Of course olde Ron is a politician and is good at confusing the minds of many. I give him credit, he was elected eleven times,, even tho he was a strong term limits type of guy.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   13:05:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Cynicom (#74)

"I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel."

Good Lord, how much clearer could he have made it??? Seven words and the rest of it was to explain why. And he was against ALL foreign aid, didn't play favorites in that regard. Not to say that Ron doesn't have faults, we all do, but he can't be faulted for his stance in regard to foreign aid. That dog won't hunt.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-17   13:10:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Deasy (#69)

Pauls prefer long careers walking thin lines.

Ron Paul was the least thin line walking politician I've ever seen. Can't even think of an example of that by him at the moment.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   13:21:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: James Deffenbach (#75)

James...

One hundred and twenty four words????

Used to "qualify" a one word answer?

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   13:29:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: James Deffenbach, Cynicom (#75)

"I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel."

Good Lord, how much clearer could he have made it??? Seven words and the rest of it was to explain why.

I suspect he just ran all the words through an auto-counter without even looking for that statement on the issue of Foreign Aid to Israel, which was supposedly so integral to his Anti-Ron Paul pitches here.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   13:45:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: James Deffenbach, Cynicom (#75)

Cyni won't be happy until RP scales the walls of the Capitol with a cutlass in his teeth and a Webley in his belt prepared to lay into officialdom like Mr. David Duke himself.

Arrhh, me hearties.

Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.

randge  posted on  2013-11-17   13:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: randge (#79)

There is a foto of Rand in Israel with his little beanie on and this is what he had to say re Israel and war.

" “Absolutely we stand with Israel. What I think we should do is announce to the world — and I think it is pretty well known — that any attack on Israel will be treated as an attack on the United States.”

I would like to stay home this time.

I wonder who "we" is in his statement?

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   14:05:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Cynicom (#80)

"You're a good man, Doctor Paul. I never seen a better. And I'd 'ate t' see the likes o' you skewered on the end of a pike."

Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.

randge  posted on  2013-11-17   14:28:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Cynicom (#77)

James...

One hundred and twenty four words????

Used to "qualify" a one word answer?

??? You're the only one spinning the issue bizarrely as if the question asked of him was a matter for a one word answer. It wasn't and you've provided nothing to support your sweeping assertions that don't hold water, so to speak. He seems to be the only candidate you expected to be so reservedly abrupt on the topic to suit you at the risk of appearing evasive to just about everyone else in his audiences. Odd that from you. Applause for him anytime he thought to do better than to shortchange the more deeply concerned to get your approval.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-17   15:11:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: randge (#81)

I never seen a better.

Perhaps I was more fortunate.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-17   15:28:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: abraxas (#6)

The third party option had nothing to do with what we got. Limiting the options to TWO who are bought by the same corporate interests is no improvement.

As long as the vote system only allows voters to express an opinion about 1 of many candidates, there will always be only 2 parties in the mainstream. "Approval voting" allows people to vote for more than one candidate which is far better... which is one reason why it will likely never see the light of day.

Of course, this doesn't even visit the issue of voter fraud.

The system itself is what's broken.

Pinguinite  posted on  2013-11-17   16:05:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: James Deffenbach (#75)

Good Lord, how much clearer could he have made it???

Ron Paul could have broken out in dance.........like this guy.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-17   16:16:14 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Pinguinite (#84) (Edited)

Of course, this doesn't even visit the issue of voter fraud.

The system itself is what's broken.

Very astute Ping! There will be no fair elections with Die Bold. System is completely corrupt.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-17   16:18:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: abraxas (#85)

As I said, I don't know how he could have made it any clearer. Personally, I am glad he didn't just give a yes or no answer without any elaboration because I know how those can be spun. He didn't waffle, equivocate or straddle the fence but said what he meant in no uncertain terms and so clear that I don't know why anyone can't see it.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-17   17:06:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: James Deffenbach (#87)

He didn't waffle, equivocate or straddle the fence but said what he meant in no uncertain terms and so clear that I don't know why anyone can't see it.

I have a few ideas as to why some refuse to see it. Got butt hurt? lol!

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2013-11-17   17:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: abraxas (#88)

Well, I guess that is a possible explanation.

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.

Paul Craig Roberts

James Deffenbach  posted on  2013-11-17   17:53:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Lod, christine (#34)

Once they put on the beanie, put them out.

Beanie babies !

"Just say no to drugs and Uncle Sambo."

noone222  posted on  2013-11-18   7:18:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: GreyLmist (#82)

Few extra ...you...in case the need arises.

you you you you you

Good morning to "you" and olde Ron.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-11-18   7:35:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Cynicom, 4 (#65)

you seem to care more about imprinting bad impressions of [Ron Paul] on people by slinging mud than you do about veracity. There's actually some terminology for that as a manipulative media tactic but it will take me a while to look that up.

Excerpts from a scientificamerican.com article: Lingering Lies: The Persistent Influence of Misinformation

After people realize the facts have been fudged, they do their best to set the record straight: judges tell juries to forget misleading testimony; newspapers publish errata. But even explicit warnings to ignore misinformation cannot erase the damage done, according to a new study from the University of Western Australia.

This result shows that “even if you understand, remember and believe the retractions, this misinformation will still affect your inferences,” says Western Australia psychologist Ullrich Ecker, an author of the study. Our memory is constantly connecting new facts to old and tying different aspects of a situation together, so that we may still unconsciously draw on facts we know to be wrong to make decisions later.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-11-24   6:14:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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