Title: Bible scholars. What is the answer to this question? Source:
[None] URL Source:[None] Published:Aug 10, 2014 Author:Various Post Date:2014-08-10 11:07:00 by Jethro Tull Keywords:None Views:460 Comments:55
Poster Comment:
I honestly have no idea if this is true, or even if the question is legitimate. I just find it curious.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Yes he 'praised' her faith BUT the Canaanites were the Nephilim,the 'offspring' of the "Sons of God"(the Fallen Angles) mating with the "Daughters of Man" (descendents of Adam and Eve)
I don't even attend the pointy shed clubhouse that passes itself off as church.
Yes, as Paul wrote to Timothy, we are to study to show ourselves approved before God; not to sit in the clubhouse and listen to someone who may, or may not, be rightly dividing the Truth.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
“I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Thanks, you got it also.
Who is Israel, is it the nation set up by the U N in 1948? No
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel:
Israel was and still is, those who believe, just like Jacob. just like the woman
And 4um rolls in another awake and aware humanoid.....
Welcome terry and thanks for your addition to this topic. My early experience with organized religion has left me totally ignorant in matters of the Bible. These comments have been interesting to say the least.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Very true Lod, there is nothing in the bible except warning about what passes as the "church"
Its all for the love of money, set up in the way of the old covenant, by works. Every chuuurrrch wants to do something. Save the world, using other peoples money.
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
They have no fear of the Lord, a woman pastor, a gay pastor, love everyone, lol Really
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. God does hate people, lol For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Your in "church" right now Lod. And where not "doing" a thing
To unshackle one's mind from these texts as a reflection of flesh and blood events is favorable to a person's mental health.
So true. And often what is molded into religion is better distilled as philosophy. Take the teachings of Christianity prior to the canon selection for example, rich in relevant teaching especially in regards to compassion. Religion cannot exist without the heavy yoke of dogma. Philosophy, on the other hand, is not dependent upon it and actually requires critical thinking, not taking what is doled out and spoon fed as all that is or ever was to any story. People have long been seeking others to do their thinking for them, rather than taking responsibility to seek beyond the omissions and dogmatic minutiae.
Personally, my preference has long been philosophy to the hypocritical dogma of religion that chains the mind and spirit for political gain and power grabs.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
My early experience with organized religion has left me totally ignorant in matters of the Bible.
Thats why they are there. Nothing biblical about them
" These comments have been interesting to say the least. "
Thanks, Im glad I don't claim to know everything, just read the KJv, not like any other book. Its not meant to be read from page 1 to the end. What ever interest you, and go from there. It will all flow with no contradictions.
Divination (from Latin divinare "to foresee, to be inspired by a god",[2] related to divinus, divine) is the attempt to gain insight into a question or situation by way of an occultic, standardized process or ritual.[3] Used in various forms throughout history, diviners ascertain their interpretations of how a querent should proceed by reading signs, events, or omens, or through alleged contact with a supernatural agency.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
I disagree, simply the marriage of the Mesopotamian history with the Hebrew perspective leaves the OT riddled with contradictions. Same is true for the NT, For example, the four Gospels of Jesus are not aligned in anyway.
Let us just investigate one NT example of serious contradiction. How does a person get saved?
Mathew & Mark state that he who endures to the end will be saved.
Mark 16:16 stated that he who believes and is baptized will be saved.
John 3:5 stated that only he who is born of water and Spirit will be saved.
Acts 16:31 states that he who believes in Jesus will be saved.
Acts 2:21 states that he who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans 10:9 states that he who confesses with his mouth that Jesis is Lord and believes in his heartthat God raised him from the dead will be saved.
John 4:7 states that Jesus implies that all persons can be saved.
Timothy 2: 3-4 & Peter 3:9 God wants all to be saved.
Mathew 7:21 Not everyone who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Acts 2:21 & Romans 10:13 says that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Luke 13:24 says that many will try to enter the Kingdom but will be unable.
Acts 2:39 says that those God calls to himself will be saved.
John 12:40, Acts 2:21, Acts 2:39, Romans 9:27 & Romans 10:13 say that some will not be saved.
Mathew 7:12, Luke 10:36-37, Romans 2:6 & 2:13, James 2:24 state that we are justified by our works, not by faith.
John 3:7, Romans 3:20-26, Ephesians 2: 8-9 & Galatians 2:16 says that we are justified by faith, not by works.
That is a great deal of contradiction to be found on just on issue.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Everything is now new, a new covenant. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. His yoke is indeed easy
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
The "chuuurrrch" as its know today on every corner puts people back under bondage
Belive this way, do this that way, every denomination causes division. You did a good thing by leaving that.
Thanks again Christine, I think I will go back to just reading 4um, I caused enough waves for now.
An excellent example of why we are to study for ourselves, and why I mainly stick to the words of Christ Himself; not his biographers.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Don't hurry off - this was a nice way to pass some time with good discussion on a Sunday.
I enjoyed it.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Just remember, no verse, chapter or book stands alone
There is no contradiction just a lack of understanding. Its easy to join a group of verses to show a doctrine one believes in Just ask a calvinist, or a dispensationalist, lol
The bible was written by believers, for believers with the inspiriation of God.
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house
What is believing holds the answer to the ?
I believe in trucks, do I own and drive one, no
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Many fall into that, not saying you do Just be careful In Hebrew, Nod means wandering.
Things like that just add to confussion, along with "study bibles", mans words, its gee wiz kinda stuff There is no requirement that a believer understand hebrew or or even greek. To follow any teaching of any nation, to include the one called Israel today.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
Understanding comes from the Spirit, not from a dictionary or any of mans knowledge.
Sorry, my intention is not to say your wrong, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
But that scripture (kjv) will only contradict scripture because of our misunderstanding
I mainly stick to the words of Christ Himself; not his biographers.
Personally, I believe that Christ taught the teaching of salvation in the Gospel of Thomas. Rather than saying a few words or claiming allegiance as a way to get there, he teaches that we are to raise our Consciousness. He also teaches that the Kingdom is right here and if we succeed in raising our Consciousness we will enter...no need to wait until your dead to get there.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
The bible was written by believers, for believers with the inspiriation of God.
Understanding comes from the Spirit, not from a dictionary or any of mans knowledge.
Why were so many direct teachings from Jesus Christ omitted from the canon? 80% of the NT is teaching from sources that were not direct, omitting the teachings of Christ and those closest to him, mostly for political gain and dogma as far as I can tell. If the texts were sufficient unto Christendom, then we would witness Christendom as the light upon the world. Instead, we have seen darkness and confusion that continues to this day.
Obviously, belief is not sufficient unto itself. Nor is the reliance upon spirit, as spirit had no part in Christian crusades or quests for empire or burning books or people at the stake. So, we must ask: what is missing for the masses to have gone so astray?
In the Gospel of Thomas, Christ teaches that understanding comes from raising your consciousness and that this is the way to salvation.
Belief is a beautiful thing. But what shall we consider in light of omission and exclusion or equally God inspired texts? Texts that clarify rather than muddy the fallible mind of man.
Seek and you shall find.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Personally, I believe that Christ taught the teaching of salvation in the Gospel of Thomas. Rather than saying a few words or claiming allegiance as a way to get there, he teaches that we are to raise our Consciousness.
sorry, last point, lol I know, but I got to go
Amazing, I started posting here today because of something that scripture does not say : Cain went to live among the people in the land of Nod"
I understand why we differ in meanings "Personally,........................................................ I believe........................................................... that Christ taught the teaching of salvation in the Gospel of Thomas "
Were not talking about the same scripture, now I understand. There is no : " Gospel of Thomas " in the bible I read
I only know of one Gospel, neither Matthew , Mark, Luke or John not even Paul had "another Gospel" They ALL taught the one true Gospel
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Was that Pauls gospel, no The same gospel I believe in and also call mine
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
I don't know the Gospel of Thomas...it will be checked out, thanks.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
A search for the Gospel of Thomas returned almost 8.5M results.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Yes, it is a much discussed text because it contains so much wisdom and symbolism too. Prior to the creation of the canon, Christendom was a much different religion that what we see today. This text was widely read and revered as were many others that were omitted.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Were not talking about the same scripture, now I understand. There is no : " Gospel of Thomas " in the bible I read
The Gospel of Thomas was excluded from the New Testament Canon,
Yes, we have a fundamental disagreement in that I do not believe the Council of Nicea that chose the canon was a Divine inspiration, rather I view the Council as pushing a political agenda and selecting texts to further that agenda. History proves this point.
Divine texts were excluded from the New Testament and from the Old Testament too (Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees). Texts that had too much truth and wisdom for the masses and needed to be kept secret so as to keep them as supplicants.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Reading only a few paragraphs re: the first council of Nicea clearly shows that this was a highly politicized (not Divine) gathering of Catholic bishops.
It certainly didn't take man very long to screw up Christ's simple message of salvation to us.
He has to be looking down on the world today and thinking, "I was crucified for this?"
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Like I said, thats cool. You press right on ahead.
But , you do error
"Christian crusades or quests for empire or burning books or people at the stake"
"Christians" never did that. The chuuurrrrch did. So that makes them, christian s ? NOT
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
pretty simple. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. "I do not believe the Council of Nicea that chose the canon was a Divine inspiration"
Scripture says The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Draw your own conclusion.
I don't put any faith in the "council of nicea" either They were a group used by God, He used an ass, a bush, And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: He can use anything for His glory
The following verse is not meant to have one search other books/writings.
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
next verse
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
You don't, and actually you shouldn't go elsewhere
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
There are many books/writings that were not included in scripture. Even to this day there are many who will attempt to add a "new revelation" from God.
No, men wrote and included into scripture what they were inspired of God to do. The council was no different then the aposels or prophets. From Mosses to the council to king james in 1611 (who by the way had nothing to do with what was in the bible, he was just a tool) wrote. included what God told them to.
Thats what I believe. I mean if you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) was born of a virgin, died, and rose again. Thats incredible. Whats so hard to believe God could save His word for us to read?
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Thats it, it is finished, believe it or not.
Only one Scripture , it incorporates previous parts of all scripture before it, Only bible today not written from the westcott and hort (goggle them, witches?) manuscript. Formally called the holy bible, or authorized version, Now called the KJV to set it apart from the works of satan calling themselves bibles.
PS: May want to reconsider that whole " Christ teaches that understanding comes from raising your consciousness and that this is the way to salvation "
Sounds like works salvation, Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I smoked way to much weed in my days to raise my own consciousness Im doing good just to stay with the conversation For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Since learning of the healthful benefits of vinegar (I use www.bragg.com brand), giving Christ a sop of vinegar may have been helpful thing. Who knows?
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Terry, you did exceedingly well for a new-reply guy.
Ups to you for the great thread.
(One never knows when a thread will catch the fancy of the members and run for quite a while.)
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
The answer to your ? is quite simple, Cain The bible says And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
It Never Says "Cain went to live among the people in the land of Nod" The Land of Nod, period. Nothing about people already being in Nod.
Hi, I've been reading 4um for a couple of years now this is my first post. Great place filled with great info from some great people, thanks Christine. The Lord says to watch, this is a great place to do just that.
Some here are "believers" and some are not, and Im ok with that. There is no "great commission" in the bible, so Im not here to convert or debate. Im not a Bible scholar, not a Pastor, I don't even attend the pointy shed clubhouse that passes itself off as church.
The man holding the sign in the picture maybe just in error, just as the "new versions" of scripture written in the last 100 years are. But the bible doesn't say so. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Many warnings, But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Don't "believe" what others say, including myself. Search the scripture (KJV) to find out whether those things are so.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Great response Terry.
That was my first notice as well, that the Bible does not say what that guy's sign says. If the premise is wrong, so will the questions/responses be.
Also, simply because in Genesis 4 it mentions Cain and Abel, nowhere does it say that those were all the children born to A/E.
Later on in Gen. 4 it talks about Cain's wife, which can reasonably be assumed was his wife prior to his slaying of Abel.
Some people here seem equally perturbed by people posing as God's people and Jesus himself. The two are polar opposites in terms of morality.
Just remember, no verse, chapter or book stands alone
There is no contradiction just a lack of understanding. Its easy to join a group of verses to show a doctrine one believes in Just ask a calvinist, or a dispensationalist, lol
The bible was written by believers, for believers with the inspiriation of God.
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house
What is believing holds the answer to the ?
I believe in trucks, do I own and drive one, no
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Many fall into that, not saying you do Just be careful In Hebrew, Nod means wandering.
Things like that just add to confussion, along with "study bibles", mans words, its gee wiz kinda stuff There is no requirement that a believer understand hebrew or or even greek. To follow any teaching of any nation, to include the one called Israel today.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
Understanding comes from the Spirit, not from a dictionary or any of mans knowledge.
Sorry, my intention is not to say your wrong, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
But that scripture (kjv) will only contradict scripture because of our misunderstanding
take care all, and thanks
Again, good answer.
What many people, particularly many so-called Christians seem to believe is that the Jews of the OT are today still relevant. They are not.
ASV 1901
Eph 2
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition, 15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; 16 and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Just one of many many statements of similar prognosis. There is nothing relevant about OT Jews or their customs today.
The focal point is Christ himself. Anyone not admitting that cannot possibly understand the basis of salvation.
All of Hebrews is a pivotal message for understanding this. Among the problems are that today's "christians" are not much different from "yesterday's" Jews.
Heb. 8:9
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them forth out of the land of Egypt; For they continued not in my covenant, And I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Scripture says The words of the Lord are pure words:
the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty
The council was no different then the aposels or prophets.
May want to reconsider that whole " Christ teaches that understanding comes from raising your consciousness and that this is the way to salvation "
Now called the KJV to set it apart from the works of satan calling themselves bibles
Whats so hard to believe God could save His word for us to read?
Again, why omit so many words spoken by the Christ and those closest to him? The Gospel of Thomas is ALL the Lord speaking.
You believe that the talking snake is to be taken literally? I view the story in the context of metaphor and symbolism. As stated several times before, the Hebrews were not the first to tell the story and it is embellished to fit a particular dogma.
Not one person on the council was a prophet or a saint or any sort of Apostle. They outright rejected Gospels written by those closest to Christ and the words of Christ...which you previously stated are pure words. How is that Divine inspiration? The Council omitted the compassion of Christianity and did so deliberately.....look who benefited from the selections made.
I believe the word was saved and are found in the excluded texts, as well as in a myriad of texts through out this world.
Satan is writing bibles? There is nothing to which satan cannot do it seems. Perhaps it was satan influencing the Council to omit the words of Christ and those closest to Him?
Christ stated that the kingdom is within you....have you found it yet? No, no need for reconsideration.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Why were so many direct teachings from Jesus Christ omitted from the canon?
Hi abraxas
Perhaps you missed my first post #14 Hi, I've been reading 4um for a couple of years now this is my first post. Great place filled with great info from some great people, thanks Christine. The Lord says to watch, this is a great place to do just that.
Some here are "believers" and some are not, and Im ok with that. There is no "great commission" in the bible, so Im not here to CONVERT OR DEBATE.
Although I believe I already answered your question using what you believe to be "incomplete" scripture. I will answer your question this LAST time using no scripture.
"Again, why omit so many words spoken by the Christ and those closest to him?"
ASK GOD, HE DID IT NOT ME
I believe the kjv bible to be the "complete" inspired word of God. With no errors/contradictions and missing nothing that I need to better understand my Lord and to grow spiritually. I don't feel anything that thomas wrote in a book bearing his name could add or subtract from that. Your point is moot.
Feel free to believe what you like, I don't have a problem with that, your salvation is not in my hands, nor is mine in yours. And no disrespect intended only being honest I could care less what you believe.
And please understand my faith is very strong so unless you can show me where God screwed up my bible and forgot something really necessary in his word : Feel free to ignor my post and I will do the same with you
Thanks for allowing me. Although my first love seems to be all I posted on so far lol. I want you to know it will only be discussed in the treads pertaining to that. I do have other interest. I learn quite a bit about the condition of the world from your site. A side one doesn't see on the "news".
Hey - I will weigh-in on things that matter to me, like eternal salvation, the destruction of the planet, never-ending wars, zio-insanity, bogus global warming claims, etc.
Gun-porn and good music are also favorites of mine.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
