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Title: Scotland will be more at risk of a terrorist attack if it votes for independence, Cameron warns
Source: Daily Mail
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... oters-reject-independence.html
Published: Sep 5, 2014
Author: Tom McTague
Post Date: 2014-09-06 12:11:43 by X-15
Keywords: secede, resistance, NWO
Views: 139
Comments: 4

David Cameron today warned that Scotland would be more at risk from terrorism if it votes for independence.

The Prime Minister said the United Kingdom had the best security and intelligence services in the world to keep people safe.

He said the safety of staying together in a ‘very dangerous and insecure world’ was one of the ‘strongest arguments’ against separation.

Mr Cameron, speaking at the end of the two-day Nato conference in Wales, said: ‘I don’t think anyone can be in any doubt we live in a very dangerous and insecure world.

‘I would have thought one of the strongest arguments that those of us who want to see the United Kingdom stay together can make is in that dangerous world and insecure world of terrorist threats and other threats isn’t it better to be part of the United Kingdom?’

He said the UK ‘has a top five defence budget, that has some of the best security and intelligence services anywhere in the world, that is part of every single alliance that really matters in the world in terms of Nato, the G8, the G20 European Union, a permanent member of the Security Council of the UN’.

Mr Cameron added: ‘To have all those networks and abilities to work with allies to keep us safe, isn’t it better to have those things than to separate yourselves from them.

‘Those are some of the arguments we will be making in the weeks to come before this vital vote.’

Mr Cameron's remarks came after the former Prime Minister Gordon Brown vowed to lead a campaign for more powers for Scotland if it rejects independence in this month’s referendum.

The former prime minister, signalling his return to front line politics, said he would push for further devolution within weeks of the September 18 vote.

Mr Brown is among senior Labour figures being deployed in a final push by the party to prevent its supporters being won over by the Scottish National Party.

With polls suggesting a late swing towards the Yes camp, Mr Brown urged voters not to ‘abandon’ the huge value to Scotland of pooling resources with the rest of the UK in areas such as pensions and healthcare.

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Poster Comment:

"Boy, is Cameron desperate! Where was the "best security and intelligence services in the world" when Muslim terrorists bombed the London subway, killing 52 and wounding 700? And don't forget - it was the British government that imported those murderers and then ignited their anger by invading Iraq.

And speaking of importing Muslim terrorists, let's not overlook small-scale terror committed by Muslim immigrants, who not only recently beheaded an elderly lady, but managed to murder a British soldier in broad daylight. Anyone who doesn't believe Muslim immigrants are a hostile and alien population should ask one of the 1,400 girls brutalized and exploited by Pakistani immigrants in Rotherham.

Scots should vote for independence just to separate themselves from lunatics like David Cameron."

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#1. To: X-15 (#0)

Mr Cameron, speaking at the end of the two-day Nato conference in Wales, said: ‘I don’t think anyone can be in any doubt we live in a very dangerous and insecure world.

1) Far more true for people in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and any number of other places due to the UK and US self-centered militaristic foreign policy.

2) Being separate from a promoter of that policy will make Scotland more secure, not less.

3) The UK "intelligence" already works closely with the US "intelligence" and last I checked, those were 2 separate countries, so the UK can continue to share it's work with Scotland just like it does Israel and anyone else it wants.

Pinguinite  posted on  2014-09-06   13:31:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: X-15 (#0)

Cameron's remarks are idiotic. Perhaps he addressed the national security theme because it worked well with the NATO Conference being held in Scotland.

Scotland will not be any less secure if it becomes an independent nation. Canada and Mexico don't need a large military because any security threat to them means a threat to the USA and the Big Dog would automatically defend the 2 pups sharing its borders. The same would be true for an independent Scotland. England would not tolerate a security threat to Scotland because it would represent a threat to England and England is the Big Dog militarily on the island.

IMHO, Scottish voters should focus more on whether it makes fiscal good sense to be independent and separate from England. The Scots are very Labour Party oriented ( which promotes lots of entitlements and building a bigger gov't bureaucracy).

Scotland is heavily reliant on 1 profitable industry - i.e. oil and gas. So yes Scotland would increase its profits from oil and gas but it would no longer get $ from England to support the costs of its social welfare entitlements and gov't bureaucracy. And should the price of oil and gas decrease, it would lead to less profits. Oil and gas retrieval from the North Sea involves higher costs than oil from the sands of Saudi Arabia - the profit margin is less for the former and is therefore more vulnerable to changes in market prices.

Also, English voters are very keen on getting out of the EU. Cameron has promised a vote on getting out of the EU in 2017 (if he wins the next general election). But Scottish voters are very pro staying in the EU. So if England pulls out in 2017, the Scots will need to re-apply to get accepted into the EU but the EU has stated it will not consider any new membership acceptances for the next 5 years at minimum. So where would that leave Scotland if England pulls out of the EU in 2017?

Moreover, in 02/13/14 the UK Chancellor, George Osborne, announced that a vote for Scottish independence would mean walking away from the pound. His statement came after the senior civil servant at the Treasury, Sir Nicholas Macpherson, said currency unions were "fraught with difficulty".

Without keeping the pound as its currency, Scotland would be in big trouble.

While gaining independence from Scotland has some positive attributes, I think overall it presents some strong negatives, mainly of a financial nature. Scots should vote with their heads, not with their hearts alone.

scrapper2  posted on  2014-09-06   15:07:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: X-15 (#0)

David Cameron today warned that Scotland would be more at risk from terrorism if it votes for independence.

Yep, from MI-5, and/or 6.

Ex-MI6 chief: don't stop jihadis coming back to UK

Counter-terrorism expert Richard Barrett says repentant jihadis 'can expose true nature of Islamic State'

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Isis militants in Mosul
An image taken from a YouTube video allegedly shows Islamic State (Isis) militants taking part in a military parade in Mosul, northern Iraq. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images

Britain should encourage jihadis fighting in Syria and Iraq to "come home", the former global counter-terrorism director of MI6 has said.

David Cameron outlined new powers last week for police to seize the passports of terrorist suspects and stop British extremists from returning to the UK. Others, including Boris Johnson, the London mayor, have called for British jihadis to have their citizenship removed.

However, Richard Barrett, a former counter-terrorism chief at MI5 and MI6, said repentant fighters needed "to know that there is a place for them back at home".

His comments follow reports that dozens of disillusioned British jihadis are looking at ways to return to the UK, but fear being imprisoned. Barrett, who also led the UN mission to track down Osama bin Laden, said returning fighters could prove an invaluable asset in dissuading potential jihadis from travelling to fight with Islamic State (Isis).

"Many of the people who have been most successful in undermining the terrorist narrative are themselves ex-extremists," said Barrett, adding that such people can "explain why going abroad to fight is a very bad idea".

He said: "It would seem sensible to encourage British and other foreign fighters who have joined the Islamic State or other extremist groups in Syria and Iraq, and now realise this was wrong, to come home.

"These are the people who can expose the true nature of the Islamic State and its leadership. Their stories of brutality and the motives behind it will be far more credible and persuasive than the rhetoric of men in suits.

"These repentant fighters need a way out, and although the law must take its course, they need to know there is a place for them back at home if they are committed to a non-violent future."

Researchers at the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation at King's College London have recently been contacted by jihadis who say that they are despondent about the situation in Syria and that, although they fear lengthy custodial sentences, they would be happy to enrol on de-radicalisation programmes.

"These ex-fighters could help the authorities to understand better than they do now why people are still going to Syria and Iraq and what needs to be done to slow the flow to a trickle or stop it altogether," said Barrett.

Pressure for a fundamental reappraisal of Britain's de-radicalisation programme is mounting among experts and politicians. Hazel Blears, a former Home Office minister, echoed the need to use the experiences of extremists to prevent other Britons following in their footsteps. "Provided you start from a sceptical point of view and you can find some who are genuinely remorseful, for whom it's been a terrible experience, and who are prepared to join a programme talking to other young people, then absolutely you should be trying to work with them. It's a very powerful narrative."

Senior Liberal Democrat figures are also understood to be open to the notion of offering jihadis a way back home, so long as they renounce violence. Sir Menzies Campbell, a former party leader, said: "I don't think we could give them a total amnesty, but we could treat them leniently in return for completing a de-radicalisation programme."

The threat posed by Isis will be the subject of a day-long Commons debate on Wednesday. Conservative whips have begun to take soundings at Westminster over Tory MPs' attitude to military action, indicating that the backbench mood was "hardening".

However, Blears added: "There's no point taking military action if you continue to have a supply chain of people ready to go here in Britain and across the world."

More than 500 British citizens are believed to have travelled to the region since 2011. In today's Observer, the controversial British Islamist Anjem Choudary acknowledges Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of the self-declared Islamic State, as "the caliph of all Muslims and the prince of the believers".

His support of Baghdadi comes days after a video was released showing the beheading of the American journalist Steven Sotloff, apparently by the same British jihadi member of Isis who had taken part in the decapitation of Sotloff's fellow hostage James Foley.

It also follows a succession of atrocities perpetrated and disseminated by Isis fighters, including massacres of captured Syrian soldiers and reported genocidal attacks on the Yazidi minority. Human Rights Watch says it has identified sites of Isis mass killings in the Iraqi city of Tikrit.

Choudary, who has had links with a number of Muslims convicted under UK anti-terror laws, dismissed the allegations against Isis as propaganda, expressing his admiration for the jihadi state and claiming that Christians were voluntarily returning to Isis-ruled Mosul because they wanted to live under sharia law.

Meanwhile, a French journalist held hostage for months by Isis in Syria has revealed that one of his abductors was Mehdi Nemmouche, the Frenchman suspected of killing four people, two of them Israeli citizens, at the Brussels Jewish Museum this year. French magazine Le Point quoted its reporter, Nicolas Henin, saying that he had been tortured by Nemmouche, who is now in custody. Henin was held for a time with Foley and Sotloff and was released in April.

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Southern Style  posted on  2014-09-06   15:51:43 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Southern Style (#3)

However, Richard Barrett, a former counter-terrorism chief at MI5 and MI6, said repentant fighters needed "to know that there is a place for them back at home"."...He said: "It would seem sensible to encourage British and other foreign fighters who have joined the Islamic State or other extremist groups in Syria and Iraq, and now realise this was wrong, to come home...Hazel Blears, a former Home Office minister, echoed the need to use the experiences of extremists to prevent other Britons following in their footsteps...Senior Liberal Democrat figures are also understood to be open to the notion of offering jihadis a way back home, so long as they renounce violence. Sir Menzies Campbell, a former party leader, said: "I don't think we could give them a total amnesty, but we could treat them leniently in return for completing a de-radicalisation programme."

Clueless lah-lah lefty idiots. Ex-alcoholics and ex-drug addicts can be helpful counselors to people trying to kick alcohol or drug dependency. But applying that analogy to "ex" jihadists won't work too well methinks.

scrapper2  posted on  2014-09-06   16:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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