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Title: On Resisting Pope Francis to his Face
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.theamericanconservative. ... -his-face-galatians-2-douthat/
Published: Oct 27, 2014
Author: ROD DREHER
Post Date: 2014-10-27 07:22:48 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 449
Comments: 25

Here’s a powerful column by Ross Douthat, in which he says Pope Francis is pushing the Catholic Church to a precipice. Here’s the gist of his piece:

But going beyond such a welcome to a kind of celebration of the virtues of nonmarital relationships generally, as the synod document seemed to do, might open a divide between formal teaching and real-world practice that’s too wide to be sustained. And on communion for the remarried, the stakes are not debatable at all. The Catholic Church was willing to lose the kingdom of England, and by extension the entire English-speaking world, over the principle that when a first marriage is valid a second is adulterous, a position rooted in the specific words of Jesus of Nazareth. To change on that issue, no matter how it was couched, would not be development; it would be contradiction and reversal.

Such a reversal would put the church on the brink of a precipice. Of course it would be welcomed by some progressive Catholics and hailed by the secular press. But it would leave many of the church’s bishops and theologians in an untenable position, and it would sow confusion among the church’s orthodox adherents — encouraging doubt and defections, apocalypticism and paranoia (remember there is another pope still living!) and eventually even a real schism.

Those adherents are, yes, a minority — sometimes a small minority — among self- identified Catholics in the West. But they are the people who have done the most to keep the church vital in an age of institutional decline: who have given their energy and time and money in an era when the church is stained by scandal, who have struggled to raise families and live up to demanding teachings, who have joined the priesthood and religious life in an age when those vocations are not honored as they once were. They have kept the faith amid moral betrayals by their leaders; they do not deserve a theological betrayal.

Here’s the bomb Douthat drops:

[Theologically orthodox Catholics] can certainly persist in the belief that God protects the church from self-contradiction. But they might want to consider the possibility that they have a role to play, and that this pope may be preserved from error only if the church itself resists him.

Call it the Galatians 2 Option. Here is St. Paul:

When Cephas [St. Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? …

Read the whole Douthat column. The point he raises is necessary but incendiary: that the Catholic faith is not Catholic without the Pope, but it is also not what the Pope says it is. That being the case, it is conceivable that those who want to be faithful to the Truth must stand up to the Pope — even to his face.

UPDATE: The traditionalist Catholic priest Father Richard Cipolla explains why the pope’s behavior in the Synod is such a big deal. Excerpts:

There are many of us who have been perplexed and upset by what happened at the first session of the Synod on the Family in Rome the last two weeks. Quite apart from the synodal procedure itself which the Bishop of Providence called a Protestant way of doing things, where one votes on the truth, what was most upsetting was the very real attempt to railroad through propositions dealing with divorced and remarried Catholics receiving Communion, and with gay unions, that depart from the clear and unambiguous teaching of the Church throughout her history, which teaching is affirmed as late as the pontificates of St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI and in the Catholic Catechism itself. Amidst this confusion and pain among those who love the Tradition of the Church there is also a sense of euphoria that the necessary two/thirds majority to pass these propositions as the sense of the Synod was not achieved. But, as I have said elsewhere, there remains the fact that over 50 percent of the Cardinals and Bishops at that Synod voted in favor of the propositions which included openness to giving Communion to divorced and remarried Catholics, to affirm positive aspects of cohabitation and civil unions, and to affirm positive elements in gay unions. This should astound us.

More:

But it is this question that is a denial of truth in matters of morality that lies at the heart of this drive to change the Church’s moral teaching in the name of more merciful pastoral practice. A writer for the Italian version of Huffington Post—I know, that gives one pause—lamented the failure of the Synod to carry out the “October revolution”. And they failed, he says, because they could not find a bridge that would lead from the indissolubility of marriage and the Church’s teaching on those sexual acts that are a part of gay unions to that pastoral practice that would give Holy Communion to divorced and remarried persons and to the affirmation of the goodness present in gay marriage. He laments this deeply because, he says, the Pope gave them the bridge. The Pontifex, the bridge builder in Latin, gave them the bridge, showed them how to get from one to the other, in the form of the question: Who am I to judge? This is the way to affirm doctrine and then adopt a pastoral practice that denies it. And it is the way, except the bridge leads to at best liberal Protestantism or at worst the individualism of secularism.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 25.

#1. To: Ada (#0)

The Vatican is now and always has been an evil fraud and plague upon the world. I was raised a Catholic, was an altar boy when the mass was said in latin, and believe the education given me by the nuns was superior to that available at the public schools in the area where I grew up.

There are millions if not billions of good Catholic people, priests and nuns included. It's the Vatican itself that's evil. And now it will become as evil as necessary for Scripture to be fulfilled.

noone222  posted on  2014-10-27   8:24:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: noone222 (#1)

There are millions if not billions of good Catholic people, priests and nuns included. It's the Vatican itself that's evil. And now it will become as evil as necessary for Scripture to be fulfilled.

What Scripture are you referring to there?

GreyLmist  posted on  2014-10-27   13:33:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: GreyLmist (#2)

What Scripture are you referring to there?

I feel an Excedrin 666 developing and have had a very long day at work. We'll have to have this "spiritual" conversation at another time.

noone222  posted on  2014-10-27   20:06:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: noone222 (#4) (Edited)

We'll have to have this "spiritual" conversation at another time.

Ok.

I feel an Excedrin 666 developing and have had a very long day at work.

Some Migraine Folk Remedies and advice at alternativemedicine.com:

>>Vinegar compress: Soak a washcloth with vinegar and place it in the refrigerator until it’s chilled. Then apply the compress to your forehead, temples, and neck. You can also inhale vinegar for even faster relief. Boil equal parts vinegar and water, pour the mixture into a bowl, and place a towel over the bowl and your head as you inhale the rising steam.

>>Try 12 almonds: Because they contain the natural aspirin salicin, almonds can offer headache relief.

>>A spoonful of honey: Taken at the first inkling of an impending headache, a tablespoon of raw honey can stop a headache. Take a spoonful, wait a half hour, if it doesn’t work, take another tablespoon with 3 glasses of water.

Often times, migraines come on when the greatest stress is over. To avoid this, wind down slowly rather than suddenly.

Edited for formatting.

GreyLmist  posted on  2014-10-28   1:58:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: GreyLmist (#5) (Edited)

I feel an Excedrin 666 developing and have had a very long day at work.

Religious debates are head aches.

You of all people shouldn't need me to inform you as to the anti-scriptural positions of the Vatican.

EDIT: The Catholic Churches are filled with graven images which defy the 10 Commandments. The Church has their members refer to the priests as "father" which violates scripture. The Vatican itself is overwhelmed with graven images.

Saying the rosary is repetitious prayer as is saying 5 hail Marys and 4 our fathers, which violates scripture. Confessing one's sins to a priest violates scripture, and it conditions children to grow up with a guilt complex that Catholicism promotes. Tithes given to the Catholic Church are then reported to the FEDS (all 501(C)(3) churches do this) in violation of scripture. [The Catholic Church actually worships Mary, like goddess worship].

At one time I posted many artist renditions of the Pope granting titles and land to kings. These frescoes were published on the Vatican Website but the lat time I tried to access them they weren't available. They depicted monarchs on bended knee kissing the Pope's ass to get his blessing to rule over the masses and were contracted to pay what's known as "Peter's pence."

I have read charters authored by the Pope to sailing ventures wherein the Pope granted authority to a sailing ventures that would allow the taking (even by genocide) of any lands ruled over by "savages" and not a christian prince.

The inquisition was carried out by the Catholic Church using torture methods invented by them.

The Catholic Church destroyed the scriptures and punished those that tried to make them available for centuries to keep people from reading them so they could be the sole source of godly instruction.

You don't need me to write a book detailing the evils of the ROMAN Church as others have done this already.

It's my opinion that the Vatican / Pope is "that man behind the curtain" pulling the strings of his puppets around the world but doesn't wish to be seen. Popery is a Babylonian descendant, as are the Ashkenazim Rabbis.

I would add that "ALL" organized religions have been corrupted. The scriptures indicate that a man (I think is the Pope) will think to change times and laws.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. It was the Pope that has changed the sabbath day to SUNday and even days like Easter (Ishtar) and Christmas (winter solstice) are unscriptural, yet celebrated by the churches around the world ... and while the people have the best intentions the church leaders know better or should.

noone222  posted on  2014-10-28   4:44:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: noone222 (#6)

The inquisition was carried out by the Catholic Church using torture methods invented by them.

I'll address that later when I'm not so rushed.

The Catholic Church destroyed the scriptures and punished those that tried to make them available for centuries to keep people from reading them so they could be the sole source of godly instruction.

When Protestants left the Church, they decided to leave out some of the Bible in their versions. What's your opinion on that?

Confessing one's sins to a priest violates scripture, and it conditions children to grow up with a guilt complex that Catholicism promotes.

"‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).

Jesus didn't require Confessions before Forgiveness but probably not even the Apostles could judge penitance or not as observantly as He did.

Tithes given to the Catholic Church are then reported to the FEDS (all 501(C)(3) churches do this) in violation of scripture.

The scripture about rendering unto Caesar comes to mind here but if you disagree, please clarify.

It's my opinion that the Vatican / Pope is "that man behind the curtain" pulling the strings of his puppets around the world but doesn't wish to be seen. Popery is a Babylonian descendant, as are the Ashkenazim Rabbis.

You can see him on TV pretty much any day of the week on the Catholic channel and also at Vatican sevices/events and on his travels -- much more often, I think than most other administrators, secular and religious.

I would add that "ALL" organized religions have been corrupted. The scriptures indicate that a man (I think is the Pope) will think to change times and laws.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. It was the Pope that has changed the sabbath day to SUNday and even days like Easter (Ishtar) and Christmas (winter solstice) are unscriptural, yet celebrated by the churches around the world ... and while the people have the best intentions the church leaders know better or should.

I'm dismayed you picked that scripture because Russia is being villified lately and recently scrapped Daylight Savings time. I'd like to see that scrapped here too, wouldn't you?

GreyLmist  posted on  2014-10-28   14:35:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: GreyLmist (#12)

Tithes given to the Catholic Church are then reported to the FEDS (all 501(C)(3) churches do this) in violation of scripture.

The scripture about rendering unto Caesar comes to mind here but if you disagree, please clarify.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

noone222  posted on  2014-10-29   5:11:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: noone222 (#15) (Edited)

You at #6: Tithes given to the Catholic Church are then reported to the FEDS (all 501(C)(3) churches do this) in violation of scripture.

Me at #12: The scripture about rendering unto Caesar comes to mind here but if you disagree, please clarify.

You at #15: 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

Matthew 6:3 - secular Wikipedia the third this day and the second Re: part of the Sermon on the Mount

This verse continues the discussion of how one should give to charity.

One interpretation, outlined by Hendriksen, is that Jesus is here stating that just as we should avoid seeking the praise of others for our good deeds, we should also avoid self-congratulation for our piety. One should not feel smug about our own goodness, but should rather try to forget our own good deeds. Hendriksen feels this view is supported by Matthew 25:37-39.[1] An alternate view, expressed by Filson, is that this verse is not a condemnation of smugness, but rather of scheming for public praise. Giving should be an automatic action without need to consider the potential rewards. If one spends too much effort pondering giving, one will scheme to have even secret donations made public so that you might be praised. Thus the verse means that right hand should by reflex be generous without the need for mental calculus, and if the mind is avoided so too is the left hand. This view sees this verse simply of a metaphor explaining the rules already laid out in the previous two verse.[2] Fowler agrees with this second interpretation, and believes that Matthew 6:4 bears it out.[3] Lewis takes a third approach, arguing the proverb is a metaphor for secrecy, and that it was earlier used as such by the Stoics. By this interpretation the left hand not knowing what the right is doing is a metaphor for how covert the proper donor should be.[4] Harrington believes that the verse is based on an ancient proverb whose exact meaning is not known. His guess is that it referred to close friendship, and that this verse implies that friends that are even as close as one's left hand should not be made aware of donations.[5]

Edited for formatting.

GreyLmist  posted on  2014-10-29   14:08:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: GreyLmist (#22)

What were we talking about the Bible or Wiki ... I'm really done with you.

noone222  posted on  2014-10-29   15:42:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: noone222 (#23)

What were we talking about the Bible or Wiki ... I'm really done with you.

You also at #18: To me it looks like you have gone to a website that the church has built to defend against allegations of anti-biblical behaviors conducted by the church.

If you were a defense lawyer I think it'd be wise for you to plea bargain for your Catholic Church client as the evidence is overwhelming and guilt is obvious.

I thought we were talking today about the Bible without me using Catholic defense sources, as you'd rather. Of course I must disagree with your second statement above from #18.

Re: You at #16 and #17, Wow. : [ I was mistaken that our Christian Bible-Study sessions here were proceeding whatsoever in a mutual spirit of Fellowship, as Protestants tend to call it in their circles. Unless you accidently overdid it on the vinegar suggested remedially at #5 for migraines, I'll have to consider those sourful comments there as reminders to never do that again without inquiring first as to what the level of Anti-Catholic bitters might be in a person's system presently which could possibly react so adversely. Don't think I won't appreciate it if you choose to prosecutorily cease and desist as one of the Protestant Inquisition's merciless accusers against Catholicism, among which there were many historical torturers of Catholics even unto death and even of their own, Puritanically garbed and otherwise. I hope you won't mind too much but I still intend to post some eventually on the Catholic Inquisition(s), for whomever it may concern or just to archive the info where I can find it as needed if nothing else. I will apologize at this time for my apostrophe error at #10, I think it was, and the various other typos made by me in haste yesterday to now.

GreyLmist  posted on  2014-10-29   18:23:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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