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Title: Israeli State Terror the Root Cause of Palestinian Blowback
Source: by author
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Published: Jan 21, 2015
Author: Stephen Lendman
Post Date: 2015-01-21 11:50:35 by Stephen Lendman
Keywords: None
Views: 653
Comments: 110

Israeli State Terror the Root Cause of Palestinian Blowback

by Stephen Lendman

Israeli state terror is longstanding. Palestinians are ruthlessly persecuted. Terrorized for praying to the wrong God.

Assaulted, beaten, arrested, imprisoned, tortured and murdered in cold blood. For daring to resist Israeli barbarism. Demanding fundamental rights everyone deserves.

Violence begets more of it. The latest incident won't be the last. Automatically called "terrorism."

Israeli media accounts didn't surprise. Omitting what most needs explaining.

YNet News headlined "12 stabbed in terror attack on Tel Aviv bus." A same day headline read "Netanyahu: Paris, Brussels, Tel Aviv - all victims of same terror."

The Jerusalem Post headlined "Terror attack in Tel Aviv: Palestinian seriously wounds 4 in stabbing rampage on bus."

An accompanying article headlined "Tel Aviv terrorist says he was motivated by Operation Protective Edge."

The closest Israeli media come to explaining blowback. Short of condemning decades of Israeli state- sponsored terror. What most needs highlighting.

The Times of Israel headlined "Palestinian stabs Tel Aviv commuters in terror attack." A second article said Netanyahu blames Palestinian leadership. More on this below.

A third article said "Terrorist says he carried out attack over Gaza war, Temple Mount." Again, the closest Israeli media come to explaining what's most important.

Haaretz headlined "12 Israelis wounded in stabbing attack on Tel Aviv bus." At least it didn't headline terrorism.

It let Israeli police foreign press spokesman Micky Rosenfeld claim  a "terror attack."

A police statement said "(t)he terrorist stabbed the bus driver several times but (he) fought back until (the assailant) fled on foot and was neutralized by a guard from the prison service."

Hamas called the incident a "natural reaction" by victims of occupation harshness.

Deputy Hamas political bureau head Mousa Abu Marzouq said "there is no bigger terrorism than occupying people, stealing their lands, freedom and dignity."

Deputy Palestinian Legislation Council (PLC) head Ahmad Bahr called the incident "self-defense."

Adding Palestinian Authority (PA) "negotiations" are a waste of time. Giving Israel more time to "Judaize" East Jerusalem. Expand West Bank settlements.

He called on PA leaders to abandon diplomacy. Resort to resistance, he urged.

Popular Resistance Committees called the incident a "natural reaction to all Israeli crimes against Palestinians, their lands and religious sites."

"Resistance attacks will not stop," they added. Urged a "complete intifada" inside Israel.

Netanyahu's statement didn't surprise. Absolving Israel of any wrongdoing. Turning truth on its head irresponsibly.

Calling the Tel Aviv attack "the direct result of the poisonous incitement being disseminated by the Palestinian Authority against the Jews and their state."

"This same terrorism is trying to attack us in Paris, Brussels and everywhere. It is Hamas - Abu Mazen’s (Abbas) partners in a unity government - that hastened to commend this attack."

"This is the same Hamas that announced it will sue Israel at the International Criminal Court in the Hague."

"Abu Mazen is responsible for both the incitement and the dangerous move at the ICC in the Hague."

"I just spoke with the head of the Israel Prison Service Nahshon unit, Menashe Ganish, and I praised the determined action by the unit’s fighters, who saved many lives and prevented a worse attack."

"We will continue to take strong action against the terrorism that has been trying to attack us since the founding of the state, and we will see to it that it does not achieve its goal."

Ultranationalist defrocked/reinstated Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman called the incident part "of the same branch whose aim is to destroy the Jewish state."

The assailant was identified as 23-year-old Tulkarem resident Hamza Mohammed Hasan Matrouk.

Haaretz said he "was taken to the hospital for treatment (of a gunshot wound to his leg) and further police and Shin Bet questioning."

Palestinian sources said he's not affiliated with any organization or political faction. He targeted Bus number 40 on Menachem Begin Road.

A major Tel Aviv thoroughfare near the Ma'ariv bridge. Haaretz explained what happened as follows:

"According to a preliminary investigation, the assailant got to Tel Aviv on Wednesday morning and boarded the bus at the Old Central Bus Station, a short distance from the scene of the attack."

"After the bus passed two stops and more passengers got on, the attacker took out a knife and started stabbing people."

"Given that the perpetrator bought the knife in the West Bank, he will be brought before a military court in Ariel."

"As he is still in hospital with the wound to his leg, he wasn't taken to court on Wednesday. His detention will be extended by 96 hours."

Lone wolf Palestinian retaliatory attacks followed Operation Protective Edge. Israeli state terror.

Cold, calculated, premeditated aggression. Murdering over 2,200 Palestinians. Injuring another 11,000.

Many maimed for life. Thousands of Gazan children survivors traumatized. Many lost both parents.

Dozens of Palestinian families were slaughtered entirely. Around 80% of Gazan casualties were noncombatant men, women, children, infants and the disabled.

Israel considers them legitimated targets. In gross violation of fundamental international law.

Palestinians are automatically called terrorists. In violent incidents involving them and Jews.

Even when Israeli security forces initiate attacks. Israel calls state terrorism self-defense. Legitimate Palestinian resistance is called terrorism.

Maan News spoke with Hamza's friends. One said the night before the incident they both "hung out with friends…until 11pm and we had fun."

Hamza "was laughing and kidding, and I know very well that he isn't affiliated (with) any faction."

Since September, Palestinians killed seven Israelis. Six civilians. One soldier.

During the same timeframe, Israelis killed 32 Palestinians. Including a 13-year-old child. Israeli security forces murdered three Palestinians in the last week alone.

One attending the funeral of another Palestinian Israel killed during a Negev house raid. All were unarmed threatening no one.

In the past 10 days, five Gazans died of exposure. Including four infants. Operation Protective Edge victims. They won't be the last ones.

Israeli aggression destroyed or damaged over 100,000 homes. Many Gazans have inadequate shelter. Unable to protect themselves from cold, wind and heavy rain.

West Bank and East Jerusalem Palestinians live in fear. Multiple daily security force incursions target their communities.

On January 21 alone, Israeli soldiers kidnapped 18 Palestinian Nablus and Hebron residents. Many others were injured near Jenin.

Reports said clashes occurred after soldiers raided many homes pre-dawn. Ransacked them. Terrorized family members. Arrested innocent victims.

Palestinians endure this type abuse daily. State terrorism by any standard. Treating victimized Paalestinian men, women and children the way Hitler treated Jews.

Surprisingly Palestinian blowback doesn't happen more often. Abused people take so much before reacting.

Violence begets more of it. Expect lots more ahead. Israel bears full responsibility. Rogue states operate this way.

A Final Comment

On January 21, US House Speaker John Boehner invited Netanyahu to address a February 11 joint congressional session. Boehner disgraced himself saying:

"Prime Minister Netanyahu is a great friend of our country, and this invitation carries with it our unwavering commitment to the security and well-being of his people."

"In this time of challenge, I am asking the Prime Minister to address Congress on the grave threats radical Islam and Iran pose to our security and way of life."  

"Americans and Israelis have always stood together in shared cause and common ideals, and now we must rise to the moment again."

Netanyahu addressed Congress twice before. In 1996 and 2011. Each time an exercise in duplicity and Big Lies. Expect nothing different this time.

Islam and Iran pose no threats whatever. Or other US/Israeli targeted nations, groups or individuals.

American and Israeli state terror threaten humanity's survival.

Don't expect Boehner or Netanyahu to explain. Partners in high crimes against peace.

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago. He can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net.

His new book as editor and contributor is titled "Flashpoint in Ukraine: US Drive for Hegemony Risks WW III."

http://www.claritypress.com/LendmanIII.html

Visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com.

Listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network.

It airs three times weekly: live on Sundays at 1PM Central time plus two prerecorded archived programs.

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#41. To: FormerLurker (#37)

To me, the fruit of a poisoned tree is itself poison.

Agree on all of the above. Especially the above quote. The Vatican has always been hiding secrets. Bad ones.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-21   19:23:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Liberator (#34)

But NOT for 1400 years STRAIGHT. Til tis very day. Nor is conversion "by the sword" Biblial or Christ-tian as has been Islam.

Yeah, for most of it - until "modern" times. You could not confess religion other than of your prince's. There was force of law behind that dating back to Roman imperial edicts. Cathars and Arians as well as anyone else having an independent view of scripture were hanged and burned, and yes, put to the sword.

There was dispensation for Jews at various times but that was about it.

"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan

randge  posted on  2015-01-21   20:36:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Liberator (#20) (Edited)

I don't know what the Talmud teaches. Don't care. But I DO know THIS: The Talmud does NOT coerce Sharia Law upon its citizens, create a "Dhimmi" class,

The equivalent of Sharia Law in Judaism would be Torah Law, Talmudic Law and Noachide Law (for Gentiles). "Dhimmi" is a word that means "protected" non- Muslims in an Islamic nation.

or convert by the sword.

Al-Baqara 256: one of the most quoted verses in the Islamic holy scripture, the Qur'an. It famously notes that "there is no compulsion in religion." -- meaning no forced conversion to Islam.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-01-21   21:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Liberator (#34)

Jesus Christ: taught love. Virtue, Selflessness. Forgiveness. Salvation.

So did the Buddha. Same stuff, different century. Christianity is a weak religion. America is proof of it.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-21   22:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: FormerLurker (#37)

the Roman Catholic Church. It is THEY who controlled the matters of European kingdoms, and who controlled what exactly WAS Christianity from the onset.

It is ALSO they who began the Inquisitions,

A short time back, I was preparing to do some postings on the Inquisitions (plural) but hadn't gotten back to that topic yet. Non-Catholics and non-Christians surely had their judicial versions and variously still do in their own clerical ways. Secularism of governments is a newfangled convention -- and not just in retrospect to the Abrahamic Monotheistic theocracies of history. Of those, many wars among them are often characterized as religious wars "of conversion" when they were actually about territorial control -- the Crusades, for instance. The internal policings by the world's religious leaders of their professed flocks have been imperfect for doctrinal violations, heresies and the like but that's a different issue than forced conversion. The Catholic Inquisitions were matters of national government at the direction of their Monarchs probably more often than by Church directive. There was some technical question for a while in the Catholic Inquisitions about whether or not someone who had been baptized into the faith could opt out if they wanted to but, other than that issue of debate, those who hadn't been baptized and claimed another faith or no faith weren't subjected to Church enforcement and punishment as is commonly thought. They were answerable to the rules of their nations and, regardless of whether they stayed within Christendom or they didn't, it wasn't uncustomary for countries then, of "The West" or not, to have theocratically restricted privileges and such for the citizenry that were religious independents.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-01-21   23:54:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Liberator (#17)

And which "facts" are they?

Look, I really don't have time for this. If you want to be a rube, feel free. You blend in with the vast majority of TV destroyed minds.

I responded in another thread with two questions, get them right and we'll discuss further there.

Otherwise, you are nothing but a troll.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-22   0:02:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Deasy (#44) (Edited)

Jesus Christ: taught love. Virtue, Selflessness. Forgiveness. Salvation.

So did the Buddha. Same stuff, different century. Christianity is a weak religion. America is proof of it.

Uh, no not quite. Just missed the cup by...a mile. Weak analysis. WRONG analysis.

Buddha doesn't teach Salvation. Never did.

Christianity is THE engine that built Western Civ. As well as America. What's destroyed America is...secular humanism and rabid atheism. And tolerance of Death Cults, fake "diversity," and stupidity.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   0:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Liberator (#39) (Edited)

The Jews fought for a tiny piece of pie, they won it.

No, Arabs fought with the British to free Palestine from the Ottoman Empire in WWI and they won it, then they were betrayed by it being largely partitioned in favor of Jews rather than becoming the one nation they expected it would be, similar to the American ideal with equal rights for all.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-01-22   0:15:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Katniss (#46) (Edited)

Look, I really don't have time for this.

I don't either. Don't take it personally but you're too impatient, closed-minded, and not a critical thinker.

I responded in another thread with two questions, get them right and we'll discuss further there.

Funny you should mention that; My two preceding questions were totally IGNORED on that thread as you decided to flit away on your own tangent. So -- why should take YOU seriously? Thus I'll save you the trouble -- our exchanges end now. Good luck in your ethereal Twilight Zome.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   0:20:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: GreyLmist (#48)

No, Arabs fought with the British to free Palestine from the Ottoman Empire in WWI and they won it, then they were betrayed by it being largely partitioned in favor of Jews rather than becoming the one nation they expected it would be, similar to America with equal rights for all.

Ooo-kay. Enjoy the narrative you need to embrace.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   0:21:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: GreyLmist (#43)

Al-Baqara 256: one of the most quoted verses in the Islamic holy scripture, the Qur'an. It famously notes that "there is no compulsion in religion." -- meaning no forced conversion to Islam.

You've gotta be sh*tting me. The Insane Train has run completely off it's rails here. Wow.

Next you'll be telling me "Islam is a Religion of Peace," and "Muslims do NOT comprise 99% of the world's terrorists."

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   0:24:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: randge (#42)

Yeah, for most of it - until "modern" times. You could not confess religion other than of your prince's. There was force of law behind that dating back to Roman imperial edicts. Cathars and Arians as well as anyone else having an independent view of scripture were hanged and burned, and yes, put to the sword.

That course of the Vatican's practice was not nearly to the extent of the viciousness and oppression of Islam's 1400 years either in practice, faith, or deed. Were there some decades or centuries when the Vatican and its henchmen were out of hand? Sure. But what THEY were practicing was NOT "Christianity."

If by the early Christian days -- I suppose you mean Constantine reign or there after -- was somewhat spotty and not yet really operating from a "Christian" governance. Fact was, the Vatican's Popes were a mixed bag of vicious and vulgar, to faithful and good. All through the ages until Protestantism broke free, the Vatican was fairly oppressive during several reigns. Even Protestant were severly persecuted as you must know.

That said, you've conveniently ignored the rest of my points, most importantly, the Vatican's and Papel perversion of true Christ-ianity and abuse of power -- in the name of Jesus Christ. Real Christians were not allowed to keep or read Bibles. his Gospel, his Sermon on the Mount, and of course the teaching of the Bible.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   0:35:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Liberator (#50)

Ooo-kay. Enjoy the narrative you need to embrace.

It's not a selective narrative. It's the actual and verifiable history.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-01-22   0:40:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Liberator (#47)

Buddha doesn't teach Salvation. Never did.

Says the Judeophile.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-22   0:43:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Liberator (#51)

Al-Baqara 256: one of the most quoted verses in the Islamic holy scripture, the Qur'an. It famously notes that "there is no compulsion in religion." -- meaning no forced conversion to Islam.

You've gotta be sh*tting me. The Insane Train has run completely off it's rails here. Wow.

Next you'll be telling me "Islam is a Religion of Peace," and "Muslims do NOT comprise 99% of the world's terrorists."

It's a Qur'an verse and tenet of Islam that you can check for yourself at the source I posted or another -- not something I made up. If you just want to hear War Party recitals about their designated enemies du jour, you could get that from FOX and CNN.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-01-22   1:39:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: GreyLmist (#55)

Problem is, there are so many more to choose from from the "Religion of Peace." No other religion on earth commands its "flock" to murder others in the name of it's "god" but Islam. It's verses and tenets are chrytal clear in WORD as well as DEED:

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216 (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation: Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4 (different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   9:30:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Deasy (#54)

Buddha doesn't teach Salvation. Never did.

Says the Judeophile.

You mean I'm a "Judeophile" for simply telling the trurh about Budda? Don't blame me because he doesn't teach Salvation. Are you interested in the truth or not?

I'm a "Truth-o-phile," thank you.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   9:33:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Liberator (#56)

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

Whereas the word hell is not found in our Bible.

Good reply on the ROP.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-22   9:35:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: GreyLmist (#50)

Arabs fought with the British to free Palestine from the Ottoman Empire in WWI and they won it, then they were betrayed by it being largely partitioned in favor of Jews rather than becoming the one nation they expected it would be, similar to America with equal rights for all.

Really?? One huge Arab-Muslim state "similar to America with equal rights"??

You're talking about Muslims, right? The same Sunnis and Shia who've been murdering each other for nearly 1400 years. The same Muslims who cover their women from head to toe and treat them worse than their camels?

As to the rest of the narrative, there's a bit of truth to it, but still NOT THE truth of the matter.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   9:38:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Lod (#58)

Thanks re: the ROP overview.

Matthew 25:41King James Version (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

True, there aren't many verses about "Hell" per se, but plenty of descriptions. For further instance:

Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   9:46:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Liberator (#60)

You're right about the descriptors of poor places to spend eternity; but the best explanation of hell that I've heard was that it is the eternal separation from the love of God.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-22   10:16:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Liberator, Deasy (#47)

Buddha doesn't teach Salvation. Never did.

What is Salvation, in your mind? Sitting on a cloud eating caviar with a bunch of hot chicks?

Buddhism is a path to Enlightenment, the joining of one's soul with the Divine, ie. becoming one with All that is.

You can believe what you want. In the end, you'll find out if you've been right all along, or not.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-01-22   10:34:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Lod (#58)

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

Whereas the word hell is not found in our Bible.

Which bible??. The word hell is a familiar Anglo-Saxon expression the translators of the verse above have employed to render the Koranic gehinnom which you will also find in Chronicles, Jeremiah and the Gospels.

Gehinnom is Arabic/Hebrew. Ge-enna is our Greek New Testament

"Hell" is KJV (& Luther).

"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan

randge  posted on  2015-01-22   10:41:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Lod (#61)

You're right about the descriptors of poor places to spend eternity; but the best explanation of hell that I've heard was that it is the eternal separation from the love of God.

Yeah, I think there are two components to "hell." As you allude to, the despair of knowing seperation from God and His love and glory for all eternity. Secondly, a torment (be it physical or mental.) Imagine the anguish of realizing one has blown their chance at the Ultimate Party forever. As they stand alone. Forever. That despair would indeed be searing.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   10:44:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: randge, Liberator, 4 (#63)

the ancient norse take - from wiki -

In Norse mythology, Hel, the location, shares a name with Hel, a female figure associated with the location. In late Icelandic sources, varying descriptions of Hel are given and various figures are described as being buried with items that will facilitate their journey to Hel after their death. In the Poetic Edda, Brynhildr's trip to Hel after her death is described and Odin, while alive, also visits Hel upon his horse Sleipnir. In Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, Baldr goes to Hel upon death and subsequently Hermóðr uses Sleipnir to attempt to retrieve him. "Hel-shoes" are described in Gísla saga.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-22   10:57:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: FormerLurker (#62)

What is Salvation, in your mind? Sitting on a cloud eating caviar with a bunch of hot chicks?

Salvation, as in the Gospel's message. I assume you're familiar with it? Lol @ "Sitting on a cloud eating caviar with a bunch of hot chicks." Been there, done that.......(almost.) Meh. It wuz ok ;-)

Buddhism is a path to Enlightenment, the joining of one's soul with the Divine, ie. becoming one with All that is.

Is "enlightenment" just an illusion? Isn't that what the Serpent promised Eve? What good is "enlightenment" without the peace, love, and glory with God the Father forever and ever?

WHO is "The Divine"? WHICH "God"?

You can believe what you want. In the end, you'll find out if you've been right all along, or not.

Becoming "One" with "All"? Better be extremely careful about who you become "One" with. "All" could well be satan and his demons. Deception is his calling card. You have only one insurance policy for your soul.

Back to "Salvation" and where it potentially leads us once we are humbled and accept Jesus Christ as our... Savior for our sins:

Revelation 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Revelation 22:1-5 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   11:00:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Liberator (#47)

Christianity is THE engine that built Western Civ

The Romans and the Greeks were not Christian when they built their cities.

Neither were the Egyptians nor the Sumerians.

All of the above were responsible for a myraid number of advances and achievements in mathematics, science, astronomy, agriculture, geometry, architecture, art, and other such things.

If anything, the Church of the Middle Ages surpressed scientific advances, hence the label the "Dark Ages" as much knowledge was lost or destroyed, scientific facts were called "witchcraft", and people were burned at the stake for it.

People such as Galieo and Copernicous were persecuted, their writings banned. So western civilization advanced DESPITE Christianity, not because of it.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-01-22   11:00:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Lod (#65)

Interesting...Norse?

Not to be confuse with "Hades" either.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   11:02:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Liberator (#49)

I don't either. Don't take it personally but you're too impatient, closed-minded, and not a critical thinker.

LMAO

OK

I'll assure you that my critical thinking skills put yours to open shame. I've been lauded in journalism for mine, by people with journalism credentials.

You think what you want to of yourself, but to outsiders it's clear that you're an establishment tool. A drone and poster-boy for one of the reasons why oppression in our culture and society works with the blessings of those that it oppresses, who then later on scratch their little noggins and mindlessly repeat things like "never again."

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-22   11:02:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Liberator (#66)

Is "enlightenment" just an illusion?

Enlightenment is reaching God. Pentacostals get all wild and go into convulsions, THINKING they are "filled with the Holy Spirit", babbling gibberish while "speaking in tongues". If anything, they're probably demonically possessed.

Enlightenment is being filled with the ACTUAL Spirit of God, feeling peace, love, and harmony with all of Creation.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-01-22   11:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Liberator (#49)

BTW, are you going to answer those two questions?

I'm guessing that you're afraid to answer the truthfully or come to the knowledge of the truth in your self-proclaimed critical thinking regimen.

Either way, refusing to address them are not good traits of critical thinking. Quite the opposite in fact.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-22   11:05:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Liberator (#66)

Sorry, but I don't base my understanding of the Universe upon poisoned fruit.

MEN wrote what you quote, not any god. In fact, it may have been demonically inspired writings, since the fruit of those writings is the belief that all one needs to do is believe in them and they will be "saved", no matter what evil they commit.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-01-22   11:07:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: randge, Lod (#63)

Yes, it seem "Gehenna" and "Hell" are basically interchangable depending on which version of the Bible is used. In both cases, it's used fairly often.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   11:07:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Liberator (#66)

WHO is "The Divine"? WHICH "God"?

There is only ONE God. You may think he walks around in sandals. I don't.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-01-22   11:08:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Katniss (#71)

RESPECT

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-22   11:10:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: FormerLurker (#70)

Those who are filled with both venom and scripture - them I give a wide berth.

"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan

randge  posted on  2015-01-22   11:10:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: FormerLurker (#72)

Sorry, but I don't base my understanding of the Universe upon poisoned fruit.

I'm sorry you're rejecting the word of God and message of Gospel. Your faith and soul is your own responsibility. A hardened heart is not a blessing. I'll pray that is softens and allows the Lord to reveal Himself to you. But you must ask Him in.

Scripture and prophecies -- yes from Jews, that's who God used in this case -- is the inspired word of God through man. I realize you and many others would prefer that The Almighty would just show up to your front door and make things easy for you.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   11:17:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Liberator (#77)

I'm sorry you're rejecting the word of God

I reject those who TELL me what the "word of God is", where they have no clue on earth about what they are talking about, since God never wrote a book.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-01-22   11:20:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: randge (#76)

Those who are filled with both venom and scripture - them I give a wide berth.

You forgot to ping me.

I see a lot of "Venom" here -- yes I am guilty as well, but then so are you. More evidence that we all need a Savior because we are ALL sinners.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   11:21:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: FormerLurker (#78)

O-kee-doke. As you were.

Liberator  posted on  2015-01-22   11:21:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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