Freedom4um

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: American Sniper? by Ross Caputi
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.telesurtv.net/english/op ... ican-Sniper-20150110-0019.html
Published: Jan 24, 2015
Author: Ross Caputi
Post Date: 2015-01-24 16:02:41 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 394
Comments: 72

Chris Kyle built his reputation as a sniper during one of the most criminal operations of the entire occupation of Iraq, the 2nd siege of Fallujah.

What American Sniper offers us — more than a heart-wrenching tale about Chris Kyle’s struggle to be a soldier, a husband, and a father; more than an action packed story about America’s most lethal sniper — is an exposure of the often hidden side of American war culture. The criminality that has characterized American military engagements since the American Indian Wars, and most recently in Iraq and Afghanistan, is hardly noticeable in this film. And that’s exactly my point.

Your average American viewer might be surprised to find out that Chris Kyle built his reputation as a sniper during one of the most criminal operations of the entire occupation of Iraq, the 2nd siege of Fallujah. He or she certainly won’t learn this by watching American Sniper, which doesn’t even hint that Chris Kyle ever did anything in Iraq except kill bad guys and defend America. And this speaks volumes about how little we understand the wars that our country fights around the world.

Perhaps my argument seems strange — that the most insightful part of this film is what is not in it. However, I believe that these omissions reflect more than just what the director decided to be irrelevant to the plot. These omissions reveal an unconscious psychological process that shields our ideas about who we are as individuals and as a nation. This process, known as “moral disengagement”, is extremely common in militaristic societies. But what is fascinating about American Sniper is how these omissions survive in the face of overwhelming evidence of the crimes that Chris Kyle participated in. The fact that a man who participated in the 2nd siege of Fallujah — an operation that killed between 4,000 to 6,000 civilians, displaced 200,000, and may have created an epidemic of birth defects and cancers — can come home, be embraced as a hero, be celebrated for the number of people he has killed, write a bestselling book based on that experience, and have it made into a Hollywood film is something that we need to reflect on as a society.

It is not my intention to accuse Chris Kyle of committing war crimes as an individual, or to attack his character in any way. Some critics have pointed out the many racist and anti-Islamic comments that Chris made in his autobiography (these comments are significantly toned down in the film). Others have noted his jingoistic beliefs. However, I too participated in the 2nd siege of Fallujah as a US Marine. And like Chris, I said some racist and despicable things while I was in Iraq. I am in no position to judge this man, nor do I think it is important to do so. I am far more interested in our reaction as a society to Chris Kyle, than I am in the nuances of his personality.

In both the book and the film, Chris Kyle comes off as a man who is slightly embarrassed by the labels that his comrades-in-arms and his society throw upon him, such as “legend” or “hero”. This comes off as very selfless and humble of him. But the more important point is that we are the ones who cast him into this designation as hero. And the financial success of Chris Kyle’s autobiography and Clint Eastwood’s cinematic adaptation of it reveals just how willing America is to embrace this man and his story, despite its factual inaccuracies.

Perhaps the only thing that I think is import to say about Chris Kyle the individual is that a man like Chris has the power to legitimize this sanitized version of events in Iraq that not all veterans have. Somehow in our culture, combat experience is mistaken for knowledge about a war. And Chris Kyle’s status as a Navy SEAL with mountains of medals and ribbons, multiple deployments to Iraq, and battle field accolades that are unmatched makes him an authority on the topic of Iraq to those who don’t know better.

I sympathize with Chris, because I believed many of the same things he believed while I was in Iraq: That Saddam Hussein had Weapons of Mass Destruction. That our mission was just and good. That the people we were fighting against in Iraq wanted to kill Americans because of some irrational political ideology or fanatical religious beliefs. And that most Iraqis wanted us in their country.

Notice how within this ideological framework, the emotional turmoil that Chris goes through and the strain that his multiple deployments put on his family gets interpreted as a sacrifice that he bravely and consciously makes for a noble cause. Our mission in Iraq is, of course, understood as a peace keeping and nation building operation, not as the imposition of a political and economic project against the will of the majority of Iraqis. Similarly, “hearts and minds” become an object to be won, rather than something to be respected. The lives that Chris ends are interpreted as “confirmed kills”, not murder. And the people he kills are interpreted as “terrorists”, not as people defending their country from a foreign, invading and occupying army.

This ideological framework is America’s war culture. Absent these ideological assumptions, the suffering that Chris and his family go through, and his tally of confirmed kills, do not get interpreted as brave sacrifices or heroic acts—they can only be tragic.

Let me reiterate, I am not accusing Chris of being guilty of war crimes, nor am I saying that he was a bad person. But I am arguing that he was not a hero. He and I both participate in an illegal and immoral war and occupation, and that deserves no praise or recognition. In particular, we both have the same blood on our hands for helping to destroy the city of Fallujah.

It was not the actions of individuals that made the 2nd siege of Fallujah the atrocity that was. It was the way the mission was structured and orchestrated. The US did not treat military action as a last resort. The peace negotiations with the leadership in Fallujah were canceled by the US. And almost no effort was taken to make a distinction between civilian men and combatants. In fact, in many instances civilians and combatants were deliberately conflated. All military aged males were forced to stay within the city limits of Fallujah (women and children were warned to flee the city) regardless of whether there was any evidence that they had picked up arms against the Americans. Also, water and electricity was cut to the entire city, and humanitarian aid was turned away. Thus, an estimated 50,000 civilians were trapped in their city during this month long siege without water or electricity and very limited supplies of food. They also had to survive a ground siege that was conducted with indiscriminate tactics and weapons, like the use of reconnaissance-by-fire, white phosphorous, and the bombing of residential neighborhoods. The main hospital was also treated as a military target. The end result was a human tragedy, an event that should be remembered alongside other US atrocities like the massacres at Wounded Knee or My Lai.

But none of these documented facts come through in American Sniper. Instead, the plot is guided by Chris Kyle’s autobiography, in which his narration of his life story describes the Iraq war and occupation through the lens of a number of common, but false, beliefs—like, for example, that the people we were fighting against were evil because Islam taught them to kill Americans.

One scene shows Chris in a moral dilemma as he is on a rooftop with his sniper rifle, and through the scope he sees a woman walking with a young child next to her (presumably her son) as she carries a grenade toward a US patrol. Chris must either kill a mother and her child or leave his countrymen exposed to an attack.

In his autobiography, Chris says that this event happened in Nasiriya during the initial invasion. However, Clint Eastwood decided to situate this scene during the 2nd siege of Fallujah in 2004. Also, in the film the woman hands the grenade to her son and encourages him to rush at the US patrol, whereas in the book it is the woman who tries to throw the grenade. Did Clint Eastwood think that this is a more representative portrayal of the Iraqi resistance? It’s not. These human-shield tactics were extremely rare and were only used by the most marginal and unpopular militias.

In the film, Chris kills both the woman and her son. Although visibly conflicted about what he felt obligated to do, he comments that, “that was evil like I ain’t never seen before”.

Despite these revisions, I believe there is another moral dilemma in this scene that may not be obvious to American viewers: That woman had every right to attack the illegal, foreign invaders in her country, whether you agree with her tactics or not. We had no right to invade a sovereign nation, occupy it against the will of the majority of its citizens, and patrol their streets. Thus, Chris must either suppress legitimate armed resistance and defend an invading army, or violate his orders. This moral dilemma never once occurred to Chris Kyle. And the backlash that I’m sure this suggestion will receive attests to the war culture in our country that prevents us from seeing ourselves as Iraqis do, as the aggressor.

This is the problem with veteran narrations about their war experience—they are often told through an emotionally charged, ideological filter that reflects the misinformation told to them by their leaders. And as a society we do nothing to correct these inaccurate accounts of America’s wars. Instead, we eat them up, celebrate them as truth, and feed them to the next generation of Americans who are doomed to make the same mistakes Chris and I made.

Partly, this comes from a general confusion that supporting the troops means not challenging their perceptions about the objectives of their mission, of who they were fighting against, and why. But I think also, as a society, we want veterans to tell us heroic, bitter-sweet stories about sacrifice and bravery. Voices like Chris Kyle’s emerge and are embraced because they tell us exactly what we want to hear. They merely reaffirm preexisting beliefs about the benevolence of American wars and the righteousness of American armed service people. That’s why American Sniper has been so success. It reassures us of what we want to believe about Iraq and about our veterans, and Chris Kyle’s combat credentials make it believable.

At the end of the day, it’s the Chris Kyles who we embrace as heroes, not the Chelsea Mannings. And we will surely suffer for this as a society, but probably not before we make other societies suffer first.

Author’s bio: Ross Caputi is a former Marine who participated in the 2nd Siege of Fallujah. Today he is on the Board of Directors of the Islah Reparations Project. He is also the Director of the documentary film Fear Not the Path of Truth: a veteran’s journey after Fallujah Ross holds an MA in Linguistics and he is working on an MA in English Studies at Fitchburg State University. Read his blog here.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-18) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#19. To: All (#16)

I don't know if you lack the intelligence

That stands by itself.

It is personal and I do not have time to address such from anyone.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-01-24   20:27:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Katniss (#14)

You acquitted yourself thoroughly, comported yourself beautifully throughout this discussion. Thanks and Best Wishes -

"The 'uniter' has brought the entire world together - to despise and deride us." Lod - Jake's best pal.

Bub  posted on  2015-01-24   20:51:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Bub (#20)

Thanks Christine.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-01-24   21:10:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Katniss (#14)

While you say that America does not have a love affair with war, it sure has a love affair with the premises for the basis of that war.

Most Americans have no clue why we go to war the zio-bankers send US to war; from Ft. Sumter, to Havana Harbor, to the Lusitania, to Pearl Harbor, to the Gulf of Tonkin, to Saddam invading our ally Kuwait, to the Twin Towers, to weapons of mass destruction, and on, and on and on, we march to war with no clue.

We react mindlessly to staged events without a moment's thought as to the cause of those events or who staged them for our consumption.

Generally, we have no stomach for war per se, but are moronic gluttons of kabuki theater.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-24   21:20:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Lod (#22)

We react mindlessly to staged events without a moment's thought as to the cause of those events or who staged them for our consumption.

Generally, we have no stomach for war per se, but are moronic gluttons of kabuki theater.

That's largely true up front, but the problem is that at some point the emotionalism subsides and some form of reason typically takes over.

There seems to be plenty of stomach for war, otherwise we wouldn't have them and we certainly wouldn't have people signing up to go fight them voluntarily, which is all it is right now and has been for decades.

When I was in the military I cannot tell you the number of people therein that seemed to relish the opportunity to go kill people.

We are gluttons for kabuki theater, we're gluttons for all kinds of propaganized BS witness the financial success of propaganda outlets that we call "news" networks.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   21:34:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Lod (#22)

Sir Lod...

This country is planning for the next world war.

The clock is wound, is ticking away.

Are we the only ones? By no means.

In the Russian archives are the cables among Stalin, Kim and Mao, leading up to the Korean War. Stalin triggered it off by telling the others that the US would not intervene in Korea.

He was wrong, we came close to WWIII.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-01-24   21:35:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Katniss (#23)

We are gluttons for kabuki theater, we're gluttons for all kinds of propaganized BS witness the financial success of propaganda outlets that we call "news" networks.

And all that is without one whit of reasoning.

Most react without benefit of thought.

If we were capable of same, which I seriously doubt.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-24   21:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Cynicom (#24)

With the worlds' economies circling the drain, all that the jew-bankers know is war, war, war to pull their fiscal fat from the fire.

And they'll finance all sides of the coming war, save Russia and China, who may well decide to let the rest of us exterminate ourselves.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-24   21:50:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Katniss (#23) (Edited)

christine  posted on  2015-01-24   21:54:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: christine (#27)

hmmmm...:-)

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-24   21:58:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Lod (#26)

When you are there, are a part of such machinations, one thinks these people are crazy. Then you wise up, this is a very serious and deadly game.

It dawns on one, there are people intent on killing you. The whole thing is insane, let me off, I want to go home.

The little people cannot win, never win.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-01-24   22:00:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Lod (#25)

Well, you just contradicted what you said about my statements.

That's pretty much what I said. Namely that "most react without the benefit of thought" as you put it, or as I implied and would put it, that most react without thinking things through. It's a kneejerk response, largely if not entirely predicated upon emotionalism that's fostered via that same kibuki theater.

But at some point emotions are set aside, different time frames for everyone prompted by different thoughts on the part of everyone, and when the emotionalism is set aside people are left to reason through things. Different mental and intellectual stimuli spawn both different conclusions as well as differing rates of drawing those differing conclusions in varying people. The brightest questions things, as in think critically, right from the outset and refuse to jump to conclusions simply because kibuki theater tells them to.

This is why things like The Patriot Act pass with flying colors after an "either you're with us or your with the terrorists" statement following an emotional event in our history, but has growing post-facto opposition.

People don't remain gullible, thoughtless, and willing to be duped forever. Even if the final impetus pushing them over the top is a tipping point in groupthink or otherwise termed popular opinion. It is that popular opinion which is the primary driver for that bus, at least initially.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:00:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Katniss (#14)

That war-weariness you speak of comes and goes. The vast majority of people supported it post-9/11.

Obama ran on what one can reasonably be concluded was an anti-war platform and soundly beat his opponents x 2. Of course he lied thru his teeth but nevertheless his promise to end #43's wars was received openly by a deceived public.

Sand monkeys is a wonderful description, one free from the shackles of PC. Feel free to use whatever term you care to.

Your disdain for cops is duly noted. My advice to you is avoid them as much as possible. Since I retired 34 years ago I've been lucky. I've never been stopped, questioned or frisked. Some guys have all the luck. Some guys have all the pain. Some guys get all the breaks. Some guys do nothing but complain....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-01-24   22:02:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Cynicom (#29)

The little people cannot win, never win.

They can't win because they allow themselves to be used as the tools that enable those pulling the strings to do what they choose to do. Without that it would be impossible for so few people to carry out their plans.

But hey, look at all the people that believe that the Fed is a legitimate constitutional entity as merely one example of something that people believe that allows the elite to use them as the tools that they are.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Katniss (#30)

...the problem is that at some point the emotionalism subsides and some form of reason typically takes over.

Try to remember what you write.

I don't contradict myself.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-01-24   22:09:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Jethro Tull (#31)

Your disdain for cops is duly noted.

Police are the Zoo keepers.

They keep the animals locked up and away from the humans.

Can we imagine NYC with no zoo keepers?

Good, bad or indifferent, I was always glad to see them.

Some would have us believe police are born deranged and take up the law just to shoot people.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-01-24   22:13:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Jethro Tull (#31)

Obama ran on what one can reasonably be concluded was an anti-war platform and soundly beat his opponents x 2. Of course he lied thru his teeth but nevertheless his promise to end #43's wars was received openly by a deceived public.

You're talking circles around yourself.

That was Iraq and Afghan. Go poll the American public on the war against ISIS or more generally on the generic "war on terror" and see what you come up with. You'll find plenty of support for that undefined debacle.

Home> Politics Poll: 2-1 Support for War on Terror

Each phase may have its limit, as Iraq did years ago, but there's a never-ending string that the masses continue to buy into. Consider your take on those "sand monkeys." Clearly you can be sold on varying aspects of it even.

Dehumanizing the "enemy" is the first sure step to developing support for any such war or conflict.

Sand monkeys is a wonderful description, one free from the shackles of PC. Feel free to use whatever term you care to.

As I do. Until someone can point out to me the differences between those "sand monkeys" that come here from those same countries and blend into our society seemlessly and without anyt adverse ramifications whatsoever, and those over there that might wish to but either don't or choose not to because they prefer to stay in their homelands, I view terminology as such to be part of the problem, or perhaps rather part of the tactics (ragheads, etc.), as well as ignorant.

Your disdain for cops is duly noted. My advice to you is avoid them as much as possible.

Just as I and any sane intelligent person does. Unfortunately even doing that hasn't helped many people avoid their psychopathic clutches. You know that damn well.

Since I retired 34 years ago I've been lucky. I've never been stopped, questioned or frisked. Some guys have all the luck. Some guys have all the pain. Some guys get all the breaks. Some guys do nothing but complain....

None of that means anything whatsoever that's germane to the argument. It sounds good though.

Otherwise, are you suggesting that there are no categorical issues with LE at large today?

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:14:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Lod (#33)

Try to remember what you write.

I don't contradict myself.

Try to cite examples instead of vagaries.

Maybe I had a typo, I don't know. I know what I said and I know that what you said, unless I misunderstood it, was pretty much what I did say or at least imply.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Cynicom (#34)

www.nydailynews.com/new-y...19-year-article-1.2087929

The NYPD seems to be responding to the libertarians/communists/anarchists.

Love it!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-01-24   22:17:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Katniss, Lod (#23)

Have you ever been to a WWII or Korean conflict unit reunion? Flag-waving, fervent praying, exhorting "God" and "Christ" to destroy our Islamic enemies, and much back-slapping and multicultural horseshit. I suspect that the Vietnam unit reunions are similar.

Not a word about illegal immigration. Just stick to the program. CINC is touched by Jehovah. Word of God promises America will triumph as it is good, Godly, and knock on wood, willing to support the chosen ones.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Deasy (#38)

Unless I'm missing something this supports my argument.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:25:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Jethro Tull (#37)

Were you still there the year John Esposito ran for mayor against Ed Koch????

I cannot recall what year, will have to look it up.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-01-24   22:26:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Katniss (#36)

Try to cite examples instead of vagaries.

Check your use of the word 'vagary' there, Kat. I can't find any inconsistencies in what you've written here. People root for war, then begin to cope with the reality, whether they continue to agree with it or not. It's a moot point when sons and daughters come home pocked in shrapnel, missing brain tissue, and unable to walk or talk. Reality begins when the war comes home and the VA health centers are overwhelmed by phone calls from distressed people.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:26:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Katniss (#39)

You haven't missed a thing.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:28:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Deasy (#38)

Grunts are brothers for life.

That is something that most non grunts do not understand.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-01-24   22:29:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Deasy (#41)

Check your use of the word 'vagary' there, Kat.

Yeah thanks!

Good catch!

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:29:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Katniss (#35)

You'll find plenty of support for that [ISIS] undefined debacle.

Absolutely. The Alphabet soup has everyone quaking in his boots. The American people are screaming for blood. Brainwashing is complete.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:30:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Cynicom (#43)

Grunts are brothers for life.

That is something that most non grunts do not understand.

There is a whole lot of dissension these days between groups of grunts.

Some are on the completely opposite end of the spectrum as others.

Take Schmedley Butler, the late, for example. I can't speak to him directly, but one of the issues I take with people such as him, they rarely seem to step out and "come to grips with reality" prior to when they retire. AKA prior to when they have their retirement income.

Money buys a lot, including people.

This nation's god is mammon. We'd be much better off if it were not so.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:33:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Cynicom (#43)

That is something that most non grunts do not understand.

Grunthood does not equal patriotism nor does it serve as a placeholder for comprehension.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:33:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Katniss (#35) (Edited)

A quick Google search returns 747,000 hits on "Americans weary on war on terror."

I'll leave the polling up to you, but this number satisfies my suggestion that we're a nation sick of war.

Plenty of issues with LE today, the question is what do you plan to do about it? As I said I'm apparently a lucky guy in regards to being harassed so I really don't care what happens to you. And don't take this personal. It's my belief that we come into this world alone and travel (mostly) alone.

PS: One or two questions at a time please. It's late and I'm olde.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-01-24   22:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Jethro Tull (#48)

This is an insular crowd. I don't really have any friends or family who question The War, only why it's not being waged effectively enough.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:36:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Deasy (#49)

This is an insular crowd. I don't really have any friends or family who question The War, only why it's not being waged effectively enough.

Not one member of my family supports war.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-01-24   22:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Deasy (#45)

Absolutely. The Alphabet soup has everyone quaking in his boots. The American people are screaming for blood. Brainwashing is complete.

My point was that at some point even that will die down, probably when Americans realize that the threat there was overstated too just as it has been forever.

Then it'll be some other enemy. I'm sure that the PTB are working hard to line up the next one.

The shelf-life of every new enemy seems to be notably shorter than the prior one. This is why at some point the enemy will not be a person. i.e., it might be a disease as has been floated in microcosms, or some biological/chemical/nuclear hazard.

Gotta keep the easily duped off-guard lest they perceive patterns that are too obvious and that risk repeat offenders.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:40:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Jethro Tull (#50)

Not one member of my family supports war.

I'm trying to reconcile that with the fact that you deem some people in the ME to be sand monkeys.

For sure if the entire nation held such opinions then war would certainly be that much more justifiable just as it is because a bunch of evangelicals led by a willful grand ignorance of the Bible seem to falsely believe that Islam and the nations in which it is centered is some large threat to earthly Christianity, which if they understood it at all they'd quickly realize that Christianity has no foundation in this world whatsoever, much less one that is in direct conflict with other worldly religions, including most of what passes for christianity in this world.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:44:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Jethro Tull (#50)

Not one member of my family supports war.

Different worlds, eh? The War is well-supported by people who have the ear of congress. These are ordinary people from all educational levels, all corners of the union. In my closer circles, their friends and their families support The War. Some millennial types are anti-war exceptions. Further out from the inner circle of friends and family, some coworkers and their families are anti-war.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Jethro Tull (#48)

A quick Google search returns 747,000 hits on "Americans weary on war on terror."

I'll leave the polling up to you, but this number satisfies my suggestion that we're a nation sick of war.

Plenty of issues with LE today, the question is what do you plan to do about it? As I said I'm apparently a lucky guy in regards to being harassed so I really don't care what happens to you. And don't take this personal. It's my belief that we come into this world alone and travel (mostly) alone.

With this link I've shown you two recent polls that completely contradict what you just wrote. I explained that Americans are tired of wars in Iraq and Afghan, neither of which has A, made the promised returns, and B, both of which people are figuring out more and more that we were lied to to engage.

Poll: 66% Favor Airstrikes Against ISIS, but 52% Oppose US Sending Ground Troops

Apparently they're not there yet re: the WOT and ISIS.

Also, if you read between the lines, it's not war that they're sick of, it's our troops going places to conduct them. They seem to have absolutely no issues with obliterating peoples using long-range weapons of mass destruction.

More Americans than not are fully in favor of the daily pounding and obliteration of the Paletstineans by the Israelis.

You're wrong, Americans love war, they just don't like it when the fruits of it make appearances in their neighborhoods and bring with it the guilt of being associated with it, even if only via having supported it.

That's why they love long-range war. All they ahve to do is read about "collateral damage" and dismiss the rest as having killed people that had flights booked to come over here and move in next door to them for the singular purpose of killing them.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   22:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Katniss (#54)

More Americans than not are fully in favor of the daily pounding and obliteration of the Paletstineans by the Israelis.

9/11 really drove that point hard into the heart of America; it's taken me a long time to realize that we're all just chattel to the people behind these conflicts

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   22:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Deasy (#55)

I hear ya, but no matter how you slice it, when you see a bunch of young women and babies all blown to bits and an accompanying justification for it, that alone dispels much. What sort of paranoid psychotic believes that either were a threat to them, eh.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   23:03:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Katniss (#56)

I'm more of a realist. The population is beyond offended. Israelis are starting to talk about just eliminating them altogether.

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-24   23:16:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Deasy (#57)

I think that's only where you're reading. I don't think that most people have a clue, otherwise the mainstream news channels wouldn't exist.

They may be offended at aspects, but not at the real issues, which people are largely ignorant of.

For example, the Fed is at the core of it. The vast majority are clueless on that, so the fear of them ever anytime soon actually connecting the dots between what you just brought up and the heart of the matter is not even an afterthought to them.

Israel isn't going anywhere as long as they have a permanent 1/3 base of support from quasi-christians.

Don't misinterpret discontent with one item in an enormous hidden agenda with progress in that way.

Katniss  posted on  2015-01-24   23:36:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Katniss (#58)

I think that's only where you're reading.

Are you thinking that a two state solution is going to be acceptable to the Arabs?

Deasy  posted on  2015-01-25   0:31:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (60 - 72) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest