4um: Ron Paul discusses Secession

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Title: Ron Paul discusses Secession
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Published: Feb 19, 2015
Author: RP
Post Date: 2015-02-19 17:55:59 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 753
Comments: 76

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#37. To: Fred Mertz (#34)
Fred...
I was on my second tour overseas with Air Force when I received my draft notice. Does that mean I was drafted and did not volunteer for Air Farce????
Guess I was duped? Right? The FBI and police had big guns when they came looking for me as a draft dodger. Where was I dodging the draft???? Korea...

Cynicom posted on 2015-02-20 21:25:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: Cynicom (#36)
Paul was not stupid. He chose five long years in the Air Force vs two years in the Army.
At about the same time I decided on four long years in the Air Farce vs two short years in the Army.

Wow, Ron Paul must have followed your lead. I'm impressed.

Fred Mertz posted on 2015-02-20 21:48:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: Fred Mertz (#38)
Wow, Ron Paul must have followed your lead. I'm impressed.

Ole Ron does not say so but I suspect he had more than one deferments, wink wink.
He just neglects to mention that. Being of suspicious mind, I often wonder what else ole Ron seems to never mention.
For instance, going into Congress a poor man, coming out a multi millionaire. Checking his election financial statements are interesting, of course who cares?
Ole Ron was drafted for two years, volunteered for five, what a man give his all for his country. Now I feel bad, only doing four during wartime. Ron did his during peacetime, did he tell us that?

Cynicom posted on 2015-02-20 22:00:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: Cynicom (#39)
For instance, going into Congress a poor man, coming out a multi millionaire.

His family owned a successful dairy processing business near Pittsburgh, PA. He ran an OB/GYN practice most of his life, and blew all his spending money on gold. It's all a matter of public record.
corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
Dakmar posted on 2015-02-20 22:11:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: Cynicom (#39)
Ron did his during peacetime, did he tell us that?

'63 - '68?
Hardly peacetime, even though no war was declared.
Please get off Paul's ass and find a more worthy target for the vitriol.
Thank you.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2015-02-20 22:15:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: Dakmar (#40)
His family owned a successful dairy processing business near Pittsburgh, PA. He ran an OB/GYN practice most of his life, and blew all his spending money on gold. It's all a matter of public record.

His every two years financial statements do not support that.
Ron "invested" in gold mining, not gold.
Public record.

Cynicom posted on 2015-02-20 22:18:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: Cynicom, Dakmar, 4 (#42)
The physical gold that anyone buys is not public record, and not reported to anyone.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2015-02-20 22:23:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: Cynicom (#42)
Ron "invested" in gold mining, not gold.

I haven't looked into the dealings of Ron Paul on the Mining And/Or Precious Metals Exchange as closely as you, obviously. I do remember some dust up about mining stocks a few years back, seems like it was a non-story fabricated by the bankster crowd.
corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
Dakmar posted on 2015-02-20 22:31:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: Lod (#41)
Sir Lod...
I do not recall ever asking or telling you to drop any subject?
That is difficult to accept.
Censoring an open forum is the wrong path, especially in a very personal format.
Sorry to receive such from someone I have utmost respect for.

Cynicom posted on 2015-02-20 22:33:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: Dakmar (#44)
Dak...
I take my leave.

Cynicom posted on 2015-02-20 22:34:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: Cynicom (#46)
vaya con dios
corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
Dakmar posted on 2015-02-20 22:36:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: Cynicom (#45)
I guess that I don't understand your now never-ending hatred of Dr. Paul.
He returned all your donations; what more could he do than make you fiscally whole? and ease your pain for being a strong supporter back when?
Your anger is misplaced, imo.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2015-02-20 22:44:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: Lod (#48)
I guess that I don't understand your now never-ending hatred of Dr. Paul.

Cyni wanted the messiah and Ron turned out to be just a messenger. I sent him a block of cheddar to go with his whine.
The 2 best times to keep your mouth shut are when you’re swimming & when you’re angry.
“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele
“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb
“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm
Hmmmmm posted on 2015-02-21 0:00:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: GreyLmist, all (#13)
CyniCOMMIE and Tom Davis can not die soon enough to save the Republic. sorry...

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2015-02-21 0:48:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: Rotara (#50)
CyniCOMMIE and Tom Davis can not die soon enough to save the Republic. sorry...

I'd like to say that I'm surprised at this comment Kent, but given the entirety of your personal background, I can't say I am.

Jethro Tull posted on 2015-02-21 1:46:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: All (#51)
I apparently missed 4um's sacred cow memo, but apparently Ron Paul is on it.
Who knew?

Jethro Tull posted on 2015-02-21 1:49:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: Cynicom, Fred Mertz, Lod, Rotara, Jethro Tull, GreyLmist, Hmmmmm, Buzzard (#36)
He chose five long years in the Air Force vs two years in the Army.

Hey genius, what part of "Since the 1950s, a "doctor draft" had channeled physicians into two-year obligatory service in the Army, the Navy, the Air Force or the Public Health Service." do you fail to understand?
Are you on some mind altering drugs? You've been proven to be a liar, and here you are calling Dr. Ron Paul that very thing, where in fact it is you who is slandering him with lies due to some personal hatred you have for the man.
Why don't you get off your high horse and admit that either you were wrong, or that you got caught slandering him with malicious lies?
As noted previously, Paul served TWO YEARS in the Air Force as an active duty flight surgeon, and THREE YEARS in the Air National Guard, so you're wrong about his time in service as well.
Even if he had gone into the Army Medical Corps, he'd still be a doctor, not a grunt. If he had wanted the easy way out he could have just gone into the Public Health Service as a so-called "yellow beret".
It's these types of things that truly illustrate just how confused you are about MANY things, and that is why I'm really surprised that some people here give great credence to what you have to say about ANYTHING.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-21 8:31:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: Cynicom, All (#15) (Edited)
The Air Force takes ONLY volunteers. They have never drafted anyone.

So when are you going to retract your lie?
Air Force may draft doctors
Washington (AP) - The Air Force needs 250 doctors. And for the first time since 1957 the Defense Department plans to call on the draft to get the physicians. The Pentagon said Monday the draft call was made necessary by the failure of this year's intern group to volunteer for active duty, beginning in July 1961, in sufficient numbers to meet the requirements of the military medical service.

"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-21 8:45:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: All (#54)
Despite the conflict that this video caused in thread, I think this is one of the best speeches Ron Paul has ever given.
Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
christine posted on 2015-02-21 11:22:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#56. To: FormerLurker (#53)
I'm really surprised that some people here give great credence to what you have to say about ANYTHING.

Just to be clear, I give NO credence to the often confused and contradictory rantings of that duplicitous old fool. The more he expresses his xenophobic jingoism, faux history, and deductive powers the better for all to see. Ticktock!
The 2 best times to keep your mouth shut are when you’re swimming & when you’re angry.
“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele
“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb
“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm
Hmmmmm posted on 2015-02-21 11:28:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#57. To: 4 (#55)
It sounds to me like a soon-to-be stump speech for Wailing Wall Rand.
You know he's going to hit the trail for his Zionist kid.
Will this be Ron's Revolution part II or III?

Jethro Tull posted on 2015-02-21 11:47:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#58. To: christine, Cynicom (#55) (Edited)
It's not really a matter of conflict, it's a matter of trying to set the record straight. Apparently Cyni has no use for truth if it hurts his agenda.
But heck, it DOES get the thread some extra hits... :)
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-21 11:48:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#59. To: Jethro Tull, Lod, All (#57)
I have to say that it troubles me that Ron Paul, at least publicly, supports his son on issues that Ron himself has spoken out against all of his career.
I've also always been troubled by Dr. Paul's comments about 9/11 and the Truth movement when asked during his first presidential bid.
This isn't what I referred to, but here's another instance when he failed on it. 9/11 is my litmus test for politicians.

Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
christine posted on 2015-02-21 16:22:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#60. To: christine (#59) (Edited)
It was my opinion during the time of the elections that Paul could not agree with the 9/11 Truth Movement due to the stark reality that ANY hope of getting nominated would have been tossed out the window. HOWEVER, AFTER he decided to call it quits in terms of seeking the nomination, he COULD have shared his true thoughts IF he were on the up and up about it all.
Then again, the JFK assassination carried a strong message to any who would challenge those who call the shots.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-21 16:32:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#61. To: FormerLurker (#60)
Then again, the JFK assassination carried a strong message to any who would challenge those who call the shots.

yeah.....
Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
christine posted on 2015-02-21 16:35:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#62. To: christine (#61)
And until the truth is told and conspirators rounded up and tried for treason, murder, espionage, and other such things, the status quo will remain as it is.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-21 17:06:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#63. To: All (#59)
gul·li·ble

adjective: gullible
easily persuaded to believe something; credulous.
synonyms: credulous, naive, overtrusting, overtrustful, easily deceived, easily taken in, exploitable, dupable, impressionable, unsuspecting, unsuspicious, unwary, ingenuous, innocent, inexperienced, unworldly, green; informalwet behind the ears, born yesterday

Cynicom posted on 2015-02-21 18:02:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#64. To: Cynicom (#63)
adjective: gullible
easily persuaded to believe something; credulous.

Uh huh. So are you admitting that you were just making shit up when you said the Air Force never drafted ANYONE, EVER?
Do you admit that it is VERY possible that Dr. Ron Paul was drafted into the Air Force as he states, since they WERE drafting doctors into the Air Force at the time?
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-21 18:10:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#65. To: Lod, Jethro Tull (#17)
Jewish kids seemed to have a pipeline into the Coast Guard if all of the above failed.

Imagine that.

Public Law 51 - JUNE 19, 1951, Chapter 144 - Statute 65, Page 75:
"Section 1. (a) This Act may be cited as the 'Universal Military Training and Service Act'."
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-65/pdf/STATUTE-65-Pg75.pdf
Was studying that doc regarding Military Selective Service law in effect for the time period that Ron Paul would have received his Draft notice and one of the things I learned there is that the Coast Guard serves under the Secretary of the Treasury -- unlike the Army, Navy, Air Force and Secretaries thereof being jurisdictionally under the Secretary of Defense.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2015-02-23 10:06:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#66. To: All (#65)
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-65/pdf/STATUTE-65-Pg75.pdf

Another thing I learned there was that aliens applying for exemption/deferment from Military service were thereafter debarred from becoming a citizen.
The strangest thing I saw was at Sec. 2 , top of pg. 76, and had to do with the authorized numbers then for active-duty personnel strength:
Army: eight hundred thirty-seven thousand [837,000]
Navy and Marine Corps: six hundred sixty-six thousand, eight hundred and eighty-two [666,882]
Air Force: five hundred two thousand [502,000]
It's like the Navy and Marine Corps were intentionally not rounded up to 667,000 so as to display a 666 numerical prefix.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2015-02-23 11:41:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#67. To: Cynicom (#63)
adjective: gullible

We were all young, once.

Deasy posted on 2015-02-23 12:24:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#68. To: Cynicom (#25) (Edited)
I'm sure he never claimed to have been officer-drafted

Watch the video, I did.
Ole Ron..."when I was drafted"...
Ole Ron was a Pied Piper, nothing else.

I did watch the video and even recommended a good WWII story he presented at 20:41. I heard him say in his speech that he was drafted. Possibly there's been a generational shift in the semantics of that word since the Korean War but I haven't found a Draft notice online yet specific to the Army only. Saw many generalized Presidential greetings, though, for induction into the Armed Forces. What's construed as draft-induced "volunteerism" by a draftee having some choice as to which of the Armed Forces they might serve in doesn't mean there was nothing involuntary about that except for the Army personnel who would have rather served elsewhere but couldn't for some reason.
Ron Paul may have chosen to serve in the Air Force because it was like a tradition with his family or he had friends and associates already there. Likewise, some people (draftees or not) choose to serve in the Army, Navy or Marines for those reasons, too, or just because that's where they prefer to do their duty (even though the Marines could be most hazardous). That he could have served in the Army for 2 years instead of 5 with similar rank and duties, thereby returning quicker to more lucrative practicing of medicine as a civilian (and without further Reserve-status ado about it) tells me that his induction-selection probably wasn't very motivated by money or prestige. Suggesting that he was something of a Draft Dodger by joining the Air Force doesn't merely amount to an undue personal insult of him by scurrilous "Stolen Valor tactics", of a sort, but is also a wrongful diminishment of every draftee in the non-Army sectors of the Armed Forces who similarly didn't desert to Canada or otherwise. So, please cease and desist for your own persona, too, from going that unreasonably far to bash him with expressed hatreds.
Near as I could determine, Ron Paul was called to service in 1962 during the October Cuban Missile Crisis and went into the Air Force in 1963. He was not sent to Vietnam but it's reported by Wikipedia that we had 16,000 combat troops there then (and as 17,000 by the Boston Review) -- much escalated beyond the advisors sent by Eisenhower. There were 122 American casualties that year and the casualty count had more than tripled in Kennedy's first year as President. It more than tripled again the next year and was much more than twice that for 1963. Kennedy is credited with planning to withdraw all troops by 1965 and 1,000 of them by the end of 1963 but only one platoon of 50 Marines was scheduled to be removed. [1963 in the Vietnam War - Wikipedia]. Ron Paul served as needed during a time of war and one that went from bad to worse during his years of service. Where he was assigned was the Military's choice.
Edited sentences 1 and 2 of paragraph 2 + capitalization.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2015-02-24 14:19:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#69. To: GreyLmist (#68) (Edited)
GL, I've already found and posted several references regarding doctors being drafted into the Air Force, Army, and Navy medical services during both the Korean and Vietnam wars.
Apparently there was also an option to volunteer into the Public Health Service; those folks were named "yellow berets", assumingly due to the implication that they were "yellow" for avoiding military service.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-24 14:41:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#70. To: GreyLmist (#68)
From Air Force may draft doctors
Washington (AP) - The Air Force needs 250 doctors. And for the first time since 1957 the Defense Department plans to call on the draft to get the physicians. The Pentagon said Monday the draft call was made necessary by the failure of this year's intern group to volunteer for active duty, beginning in July 1961, in sufficient numbers to meet the requirements of the military medical service.

And this...
"Since the 1950s, a "doctor draft" had channeled physicians into two-year obligatory service in the Army, the Navy, the Air Force or the Public Health Service."
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-24 14:46:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#71. To: FormerLurker (#69) (Edited)
GL, I've already found and posted several references regarding doctors being drafted into the Air Force, Army, and Navy medical services during both the Korean and Vietnam wars.
Apparently there was also an option to volunteer into the Public Health Service; those folks were named "yellow berets", assumingly due to the implication that they were "yellow" for avoiding military service.

I saw those sources and partly read them. Wouldn't agree with the implication that a Public Health draft-choice of dutiful service was abject cowardice but thanks for that very informative research and for reposting so I could more easily get to it.
Edited last sentence.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2015-02-24 15:29:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#72. To: GreyLmist (#71)
Wouldn't agree with the implication that a Public Health draft-choice of dutiful service was abject cowardice but thanks for that very informative research and for reposting so I could more easily get to it.

From reading through the source a bit, it seems they named themselves with that moniker. Sort of an "inside" joke I guess.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-24 15:40:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#73. To: FormerLurker (#72) (Edited)
From reading through the source a bit, it seems they named themselves with that moniker. Sort of an "inside" joke I guess.

That was good humored of them, since I suppose there were some biological and equipment risks to their safety involved to some extent.
Grammar edit.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2015-02-24 16:22:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#74. To: GreyLmist (#73) (Edited)
Yep.
But what it boils down to is that the Air Force WAS in fact drafting doctors during the time period Ron Paul states he was drafted, contrary to Cyni's erroneous claims that they've NEVER drafted ANYONE, and there's no reason to doubt that Ron Paul was in fact drafted into the Air Force as a flight surgeon.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-24 16:47:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#75. To: FormerLurker, Cynicom (#74)
what it boils down to is that the Air Force WAS in fact drafting doctors during the time period Ron Paul states he was drafted,

Yes, that's clearly evident now, I'd say, with the constructive source you provided at #27 and other such info on the subject.

contrary to Cyni's erroneous claims that they've NEVER drafted ANYONE,

Human error, it does still tend to happen much but, even so, I wouldn't want to become a robot. Considering the persuasiveness of your assistive link that may have prompted him to confirm that data satisfactorily to his specs, then reevaluate the matter and considering, also, how much he unrepentantly loathes Ron Paul, I think he probably stood in correction to the very best of his ability at #30, as far as these soon subsequent acknowledgement-excerpts go:

There is a quirk in the draft law.
Medical doctors could be drafted back then,
Under current law medical people, in case of national emergency, are really in peril. The law allows the military to call from a current list, doctors, surgeons, nurses, NPs PAs and even paramedics.
All is based on specialty and age, doctors I believe are under the gun until age 60, the others at lesser ages.

and there's no reason to doubt that Ron Paul was in fact drafted into the Air Force as a flight surgeon.

Quite possibly he was but would have to stop short of 100% certainty because I haven't seen the documentation myself. Wasn't exactly searching for that but did find an extensive debate on technicalities, etc., at this linked Ron Paul unfriendly dailykos.com page with some very good counterpoints in supporting evidence, imo, as to qualifications of that time period and so on.
Am posting two more links here, as well, that I should have included for fact-checking references at #68:

1. Vietnam War - Wikipedia
2. Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam | Boston Review

Because of your current LBJ sig quote, I thought you might be interested in this quick excerpt from the Boston Review article. Was a new JFK-topical news report to me, anyway:

Unfortunately, the last White House tape from the Kennedy administration is dated November 7, 1963. The archivists at the JFK Library have no information on why the tapings either ended or are unavailable for later dates.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2015-02-26 14:51:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#76. To: GreyLmist (#75)
Unfortunately, the last White House tape from the Kennedy administration is dated November 7, 1963. The archivists at the JFK Library have no information on why the tapings either ended or are unavailable for later dates.

Interesting. Wonder if we'll ever know why...
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
FormerLurker posted on 2015-02-26 15:29:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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