Freedom4um

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

World News
See other World News Articles

Title: The coming war with Russia
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/the-coming-war-with-russia
Published: Sep 2, 2015
Author: DAVID PUGLIESE, OTTAWA CITIZEN
Post Date: 2015-09-02 07:54:27 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 156
Comments: 20

A couple of months before he retired in July, the head of Canada’s air force provided a blunt assessment of what might emerge from the current military mission to Ukraine.

“We pray that our ongoing NATO mission isn’t accompanied by the escalation of deadly force and the shedding of blood,” Lt.-Gen. Yvan Blondin wrote in the magazine RCAF Today. “We have everything to lose and nothing to gain through a show-down with our former Eastern Bloc foes.”

It was an unusual and candid observation from a veteran Canadian officer about the increased tensions and worsening situation in Ukraine. But Blondin’s warning also reflects an increasing concern among some in the United States and Europe about the possibility that the standoff in eastern Europe between Russia and the West could somehow end in war.

Political and military analysts don’t believe that either side would deliberately start such a war. But with large numbers of military forces operating in such close proximity, anything could happen, they warn.

Bloodshed could be spurred by something as simple as miscommunication between military units, for instance.

Or it could involve an accident, such as what almost happened in April when a Russian SU-27 fighter jet came within an estimated three to six metres of a U.S. military surveillance plane over the Baltic Sea. (The Pentagon complained to the Russians about the pilot’s aggressive flying but the Russians countered that the U.S. spy plane was flying towards their border with its identification transponder turned off.)

Over the last year, tensions have increased to the point where Latvian Foreign Affairs Minister Edgars Rinkevics warned that Russian-Western relations had sunk to their lowest level since the Cuban missile crisis of the early 1960s.

NATO vessels, including Canadian frigates, now regularly patrol the Black Sea, closely monitored by Russian warships. American, Canadian and other NATO troops are training on Russia’s doorstep. In October, NATO will launch one of its biggest exercises in years, with up to 36,000 personnel involved in war games designed to send a message to Russia that the alliance is ready to respond militarily if required. Some 1,600 Canadian military personnel, along with aircraft and five warships, will take part.

NATO has given much publicity to the exercise because it doesn’t want any misunderstandings with the Russians that could lead to a confrontation. NATO hopes Russia will do the same for its own training exercises but so far that hasn’t happened.

In March, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg raised concerns that the tensions have hurt communications with the Russians, who have launched a series of unscheduled, large-scale military exercises in eastern Europe. He worried the result could be miscommunication, sparking an incident between Russian and NATO forces that could spiral out of control.

RELATED

Russian 'confrontations' a PR gold mine for Harper The tense situation hasn’t been helped by inaccurate claims from the alliance’s commander, U.S. Gen. Philip Breedlove. When the crisis first started in 2014, Breedlove made the stunning announcement that Russia had assembled 40,000 troops on Ukraine’s frontier, and he warned that an invasion was imminent. Months later, he claimed that more than 1,000 combat vehicles, as well as Russian forces, had crossed into Ukraine.

Breedlove’s statements rattled officials in German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s office. German intelligence agencies, which had good sources in the region, were reporting that there was no invasion. Merkel’s officials dismissed Breedlove’s claims as dangerous. The general didn’t retreat on his statements.

But this past April, Breedlove surprised U.S. senators by acknowledging just how little NATO and the U.S. knew about Russia’s activities.

He admitted he first learned from social media about a massive Russian exercise that unfolded in March across Eastern Europe. “Some Russian military exercises have caught us by surprise, and our textured feel for Russia’s involvement on the ground in Ukraine has been quite limited,” he told the senators.

Canada has its own concerns about war with Russia but the official line is that the situation can be contained.

“There is no doubt that (Russian President Vladimir) Putin’s aggression in Ukraine is not an isolated concern,” said Lauren Armstrong, spokeswoman for Defence Minister Jason Kenney. “We believe that a message of resolve and deterrence, in concert with our allies, is the best way to prevent a miscalculation on the part of Mr. Putin.”

Others are not so sure. The lack of “textured feel” that Breedlove talked about has prompted former military officers in both Russia and the U.S. to call on their countries for new safeguards on the use of nuclear missiles.

Despite the end of the Cold War, the system governing the launching of such nuclear weapons is still geared towards crews firing those missiles within minutes of receiving their orders. In addition, Russian military doctrine calls for the use of nuclear weapons even in a conventional conflict if it believes its forces will be overwhelmed by the enemy.

In April, retired U.S. Gen. James Cartwright, who had commanded American nuclear forces, and retired Russian Maj. Gen. Vladimir Dvorkin, who headed the research institute of Russia’s Strategic Rocket Forces, warned that both countries were at increased risk of an accidental war as the situation in Ukraine deteriorated.

Putin has already raised the spectre of nuclear war. Early on in the Ukraine crisis, he sent a less-than-subtle message. “It’s best not to mess with us,” he told a gathering of Russian youths in August 2014. “Thank God, I think no one is thinking of unleashing a large-scale conflict with Russia. I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers.”

Months later, Putin confirmed that he had contemplated whether nuclear weapons would be needed in the showdown with the West over the Crimea, acknowledging that he was ready to bring his country’s nuclear weapons to a high state of alert.

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev also sounded warnings. He is critical of Putin’s actions in Ukraine but he also blamed NATO for significantly increasing tensions as it expanded the alliance towards Russia’s borders. “It could all blow up at any moment if we don’t take action,” he told the German magazine Der Spiegel in January 2015. “Moscow does not believe the West, and the West does not believe Moscow.

“Such a war today would probably lead inevitably to nuclear war,” he added. “But the statements and propaganda on both sides make me fear the worst.”

A slower march to war – rather than a miscalculation – is another scenario that has raised concerns. The former Soviet republics of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, all with populations of ethnic Russians, are now members of NATO. Under the NATO agreement, alliance countries are obliged to come to the aid of fellow members if they are under attack.

But what would NATO do if Russia acted in Latvia, Estonia or Lithuania, claiming it needed to protect the interests of those ethnic Russians? How would NATO forces, training in Latvia or Estonia, handle an incursion of covert Russian forces – troops wearing unmarked uniforms, which happened in some disputed areas in Ukraine?

“It is not difficult to imagine scenarios in which either U.S. or Russian action could set in motion a chain of events at the end of which American and Russian troops would be killing each other,” wrote Graham Allison, former assistant U.S. secretary of defence, and Dimitri Simes, publisher of the National Interest, a U.S. foreign policy magazine.

Their April 2015 article in the National Interest, titled “Russia and America: Stumbling to War,” also highlighted the willingness of Russian hard-liners to use nuclear weapons if a conventional conflict got out of hand. “In these debates, many ask whether President Obama would risk losing Chicago, New York and Washington to protect Riga, Tallinn and Vilnius,” the authors wrote.

“It is a troubling question. If you want to either dumbfound or silence a table next to you in a restaurant in Washington or Boston, ask your fellow diners what they think.”

For now, Americans and Canadians say they would support a military response – at least in theory.

In June, the Pew Research Centre, based in Washington, conducted a survey in 10 nations to gauge views on the Ukraine crisis. The majority of Canadians and Americans interviewed responded that their nations should act militarily if a NATO nation was attacked. Almost half of those surveyed in the United Kingdom, Poland, and Spain also agreed.

There was a split, however, among the populations of some other NATO nations. “At least half of Germans, French and Italians say their country should not use military force to defend a NATO ally if attacked by Russia,” the centre noted. (The survey was based on 11,116 interviews in NATO nations, Ukraine and Russia.)

Another scenario, short of war, that could also have serious consequences centres on the unintended effects of ongoing economic sanctions against Russia. The result, some analysts worry, could be widespread chaos, eventually leading to the fracturing of Russia into uncontrollable nuclear armed mini-states.

The sanctions are supposed to force Putin to back down on Ukraine and the Crimea. Yet he has shown no desire to reverse course. In fact, the economic sanctions have further shored up his support among the Russian people, who blame the West for their troubles, according to Pew researchers. Meanwhile, Russia’s economic situation has significantly worsened with the steep drop in oil prices.

Canada’s Conservative government has called for even more sanctions against the Russians but European nations, in particular Germany, have been leery. Tougher sanctions would further destabilize Russia, an outcome that is in no one’s best interest, German vice-chancellor Sigmar Gabriel warned.

It might, however, be too late to stave off such an outcome. Earlier this year Stratfor, a private intelligence firm with ties to the U.S. military and CIA, predicted economic sanctions, combined with low oil prices, could lead to the eventual collapse of Russia. Out of that would emerge smaller, poorer and potentially uncontrollable states.

Russia’s central government would no longer have control over the country’s 8,000 nuclear weapons – a situation Stratfor termed “the greatest crisis of the next decade.

“Russia is the site of a massive nuclear strike force distributed throughout the hinterlands,” Stratfor explained. “The decline of Moscow’s power will open the question of who controls those missiles and how their non-use can be guaranteed.”

The tension between Russia and the West isn’t expected to get better anytime soon. On both sides, attitudes seem to be hardening.

Some of Putin’s advisers see NATO’s ultimate goal as crippling Russia to the point where it cannot challenge the West, either militarily or economically. “The full financial force of the West is concentrated on attacking us,” Nikolai Starikov, a popular Russian pundit with links to the Putin regime, told a seminar in Russia in December. “What they are doing is smashing the foundations of a great geopolitical construction that will become their competitor.”

Last month, meanwhile, U.S. air force secretary Deborah James told American lawmakers that Russia was the biggest threat facing the country today. Gen. Joseph Dunford, slated to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, echoed that view. And U.S. Air Force Gen. Paul Selva, who is to become American’s number two military officer, said Russia has overtaken the Islamic State as the greatest threat to the U.S. homeland.

Earlier this year, Canada’s Citizenship and Immigration Minister Chris Alexander voiced similar views. He said that while the war in Iraq and Syria is an important issue, the number one threat to world security is the crisis in Ukraine. Alexander called on all countries to come together to drive the Russians out of Crimea and Ukraine.

“There is absolutely no scenario going into the future that leads to peace and security for this world, that leads to prosperity in Europe globally that does not include a full international effort to give Ukraine the tools it needs to drive Russian forces from their borders and to secure its borders for good,” he told Ukrainian Canadians in a speech in Toronto Feb. 22.

Less than a month later, U.S. Army Maj.-Gen. Robert Scales, former commandant of the U.S. Army War College, outlined a similar solution to the crisis but in blunter language. “The only way (the U.S.) can turn the tide is start killing Russians, killing so many Russians that even Putin’s media can’t hide the fact that Russians are returning to their motherland in body bags,” the retired officer said.

dpugliese@ottawacitizen.com

Twitter.com/davidpugliese

Who’s got the nukes?

United States: 7,200 warheads. They are on intercontinental ballistic missiles in protected silos, on missiles on board submarines, and outfitted on weapons carried by strategic bombers. This total includes warheads held in reserve or waiting to be dismantled.

Russia: 7,500 warheads. They are outfitted on the same types of delivery systems as the U.S. This total includes warheads held in reserve or waiting to be dismantled.

Included in both the U.S. and Russian warhead counts are tactical nuclear weapons, designed to be used on the battlefield. Others are strategic nuclear weapons, which are to be used on cities and larger targets.

United Kingdom: 215 warheads, many on missiles that can be launched by submarines, others in weapons to be carried by aircraft.

France: 300 warheads, most on submarines.

– Source: Federation of American Scientists 2015

The United States and Russia maintain roughly 1,800 of their nuclear weapons on high-alert status – ready to be launched within minutes of a warning, according to the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Ada (#0)

Thanks to the Industrial War Machine of the USA, this country has succumbed to the mindset of war, for profit. War is a racket. This one will be nuclear.

Our transgendered and sexually challenged military might will be the first defeat. China will ally with Russia. Man is facing his Armageddon.

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-09-02   9:12:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Ada (#0)

Less than a month later, U.S. Army Maj.-Gen. Robert Scales, former commandant of the U.S. Army War College, outlined a similar solution to the crisis but in blunter language. “The only way (the U.S.) can turn the tide is start killing Russians, killing so many Russians that even Putin’s media can’t hide the fact that Russians are returning to their motherland in body bags,” the retired officer said.

=============================================================

Russia Inadvertently Posts Its Casualties In Ukraine: 2,000 Deaths, 3,200 Disabled

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-09-02   9:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#1)

China will ally with Russia.

Really?

To what end for Russia, that needs some thought, not a quick draw of the lip.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-09-02   9:15:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Cynicom (#3)

It might, however, be too late to stave off such an outcome. Earlier this year Stratfor, a private intelligence firm with ties to the U.S. military and CIA, predicted economic sanctions, combined with low oil prices, could lead to the eventual collapse of Russia. Out of that would emerge smaller, poorer and potentially uncontrollable states.

Russia’s central government would no longer have control over the country’s 8,000 nuclear weapons – a situation Stratfor termed “the greatest crisis of the next decade.

“Russia is the site of a massive nuclear strike force distributed throughout the hinterlands,” Stratfor explained. “The decline of Moscow’s power will open the question of who controls those missiles and how their non-use can be guaranteed.”

========================================================

Both China and Russia are historical enemies of the Western Hemisphere.

China doesn't want Russia to collapse and have nuclear rain coming from every direction if Putin is out of the picture. That is a huge threat to China.

They both want to take down the US to eliminate their largest threat, both militarily and economically.

Putin's time is running out. If he can't overcome the sanctions and the Russian oligarchy loses too much money from them, they will remove Putin themselves, and he knows it. If he see it coming, he will act out of desperation to stay in power.

China at that point has no other option than to unilaterally attack the USA.

The USA now has not only a hollow force, but now because of it being used as a progressive socialist human engineering experiment has become a joke in terms of military sustainability on the battle field. That weakness will require the use of nuclear weapons to repel the massive ground and sea forces that Russia and China will throw at the US.

It won't make any difference which of the three you live in, your ass is cooked either way. Do you know Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-09-02   9:27:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#4)

That weakness will require the use of nuclear weapons to repel the massive ground and sea forces that Russia and China will throw at the US.

How will they get here?

Cynicom  posted on  2015-09-02   10:06:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Cynicom (#5)

How will they get here?

That was my sentiment. I guess they'll backstroke across the pacific. There's a better chance china will attack russia. It's a more practical move. I had a religious nut recently tell me that china was the world's greatest threat because noone can match the number of troops they could potentialy field, and all he could do was stutter when I informed him India was right next door and they could match china's #'s.

Obnoxicated  posted on  2015-09-02   10:49:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Obnoxicated (#6)

There's a better chance china will attack russia.

Excellent geo/political thinking.

Putin prays each night on his knees that the US DOES NOT LEAVE ASIA.

Anyone that does not understand that, needs to rethink their world political structure.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-09-02   10:59:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Ada (#0)

Earlier this year, Canada’s Citizenship and Immigration Minister Chris Alexander voiced similar views. He said that while the war in Iraq and Syria is an important issue, the number one threat to world security is the crisis in Ukraine. Alexander called on all countries to come together to drive the Russians out of Crimea and Ukraine.

Bunch of insane hypocrites. Canada and the US, along with the rest of NATO, engineered, instigated, and financed the overthrow of the Ukraine government, and then they point fingers at those "evil Russians".

Driving the "Russians out of Crimea and Ukraine" would be like driving the French out of Louisiana or the Cubans out of Florida, or perhaps the Irish out of Massachusetts.

Crimea has been populated with ethnic Russians for centuries, and that is who the west wishes to "drive out" since they covet the Russian naval base in Sevastopol. As far as eastern Ukraine, that is ALSO largely populated with ethnic Russians. Both regions WERE part of Russia until the formation of the Soviet Union, where the USSR carved parts out of other countries such as Poland and Hungary to create the area now called Ukraine.

Ukraine was never a country historically, and this is all a big land grab by NATO in order to provoke conflict with Russia. We should thank God that Putin is a VERY patient man, otherwise all hell would have already been unleashed against the NATO backed Ukraine Nazi government and ALL of Ukraine would today be part of Russia, if that is what Russia desired.

As it is, Russia simply allowed Crimea to rejoin it rather than be subservient to a hostile western backed Nazi government in Kiev. It has NOT taken eastern Ukraine, but has only supported the population there diplomatically, attempting to broker peace between rebel forces and the Kiev government.

However, at EVERY opportunity, the western backed Nazis have violated every truce or treaty, all with US blessing.

If we had a truly free press these facts would be readily apparent to anyone who cared.


"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-09-02   12:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Obnoxicated (#6)

Russians are not on OUR doorstep, OUR troops AND weapons of mass destruction ARE on THEIRS however.

It is our government who is provoking conflict, and if conflict erupts, it is not a "Red Dawn" scenario we need to worry about, it's the thousands of thermonuclear tipped missiles we'll need to dodge as they come in from the stratosphere that we should be more worried about.


"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-09-02   12:09:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Cynicom, HAPPY2BME-4UM (#5)

How will they get here?

They need only take out all European, Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, Asian, and Pacific based targets.

Their sub launched missiles will reach the continental US and Canada in what, 10 minutes or less, and 25 or so minutes for their ICBMs to reach us?


"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-09-02   12:15:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: FormerLurker (#8)

Why do you hate America?

Just kidding. I agree with you 100%.

John Howard says: There are 4 schools of economics:
Marxism: steal everything
Keynesianism: steal by counterfeiting whenever needed
Chicago school (Milton Friedman): steal by counterfeiting at a steady, predictable rate
Austrians: don't steal

Exodus to Europe: Who’s to Blame?
'Wiped off the Map' – The Rumor of the Century

PnbC  posted on  2015-09-02   12:22:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: FormerLurker (#9)

I'm sure Russia is just quaking in their boots at the prospect of facing off against angry hordes of american military tran-sexuals rushing across their borders dressed in their finest Victoria's Secret garters and fishnets and swinging their Vera Bradley's wildly about. I hope the press is there to cover that.

Obnoxicated  posted on  2015-09-02   12:41:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Obnoxicated (#12)

Lol. +1

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.

titorite  posted on  2015-09-02   12:53:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Obnoxicated (#12)

I'm sure Russia is just quaking in their boots at the prospect of facing off against angry hordes of american military tran-sexuals rushing across their borders dressed in their finest Victoria's Secret garters and fishnets and swinging their Vera Bradley's wildly about.

Yes, I'm sure they are petrified...

Hey, is that Bruce (Caitlyn??) Jenner driving that tank?

Seriously though, if Russia had to shoot down some US jets or sink some ships, I'd bet the crazies in DC would be pushing the red buttons in a heartbeat. They'd then go down to their underground bunkers and throw a big gay ole party, while the rest of us suffer the consequences.


"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-09-02   16:29:11 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#4)

They both want to take down the US to eliminate their largest threat, both militarily and economically.

Putin's time is running out. If he can't overcome the sanctions and the Russian oligarchy loses too much money from them, they will remove Putin themselves, and he knows it. If he see it coming, he will act out of desperation to stay in power.

Wrong on both counts.

The current day Russian Federation has tried to operate as an equal partner to western interests, however, the neocon cabal driving US foreign policy will have none of that. They desire to dominate the entire world, with no regard to loss of life, human suffering, or economic well-being.

Russia has not launched a war other than protecting its citizens in South Ossetia some time ago, when the US backed stooge in Georgia declared war on them and tried to exterminate them.

As far as Putin, he enjoys wide support from his nation and is in no danger of losing that support. It's sort of like hoping Obama would be "taken out" by a popular revolt due to unhappiness with the US economy, it's just not going to happen.

Russia is not some backward shit stain of a country like Afghanistan, it's a 1st world nation with nuclear weapons which can and do work. They operate under a constitutional republic with free elections, and their security forces are equal to or better than what we have protecting the stooges in DC.

So no, Putin's time is NOT running out. His patience might be however, and we better just hope and pray that DC doesn't provoke him and his nation any further than they already have.


"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-09-02   16:41:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: FormerLurker (#15)

RUSSO/SINO BAM-BAM-BAM - In Dramatic Escalation, China Sends Five Navy Ships Off Alaska Coast For First Time Ever

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-09-02   16:44:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: FormerLurker (#14)

Seriously though, if Russia had to shoot down some US jets or sink some ships, I'd bet the crazies in DC would be pushing the red buttons in a heartbeat. They'd then go down to their underground bunkers and throw a big gay ole party, while the rest of us suffer the consequences

============================================

White House appoints transgender Czar to transform US military

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-09-02   16:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#16) (Edited)

China is a different story. They operate under the tenants of Sun-Tzu, and our politicians (such as Bill Clinton) who exchanged classified material for campaign cash are traitors to this nation.

Allowing companies such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Intel to setup shop and assist the Chinese in their development efforts for everything from missile guidance technology to semiconductor manufacturing were ALSO treasonous acts, as the Chinese military has ALWAYS desired to defeat America.

So I agree with your position on China, and can also agree that with US provocations, Russia may well join forces with China against the US militarily if things don't change rather quickly.


"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-09-02   16:50:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: FormerLurker (#18)

Allowing companies such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Intel to setup shop and assist the Chinese in their development efforts for everything from missile guidance technology to semiconductor manufacturing were ALSO treasonous acts, as the Chinese military has ALWAYS desired to defeat America.

==============================================

god, its been 23 years since SOBill Clinton gave China not only GPS technology, but also over-the-horizon lookdown/shootdown radar.

And he's made how many millions selling books and giving utter bullshit speeches since then?

A real american hero, followed by another real american hero george W. ..

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-09-02   22:04:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Obnoxicated, titorite, horse, formerlurker (#12) (Edited)

This nuke takes out aircraft carriers up to 2,000 km. It uses the same over-the-horizon tech Bill Clinton gave the Chinese in 1993.

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-09-02   22:34:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest