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Title: Donald Trump Thinks You Should Be Able To Bring Guns Anywhere, Except His Own Hotels
Source: .
URL Source: http://thinkprogress.org/election/2 ... d-trump-hotels-gun-free-zones/
Published: Oct 6, 2015
Author: .
Post Date: 2015-10-06 15:12:00 by Artisan
Keywords: None
Views: 353
Comments: 21

Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump regularly calls for getting rid of gun-free zones. However, if the real estate magnate is to succeed in his quest, he’ll have to start with places like Trump-branded hotels and golf courses.

For years, the New York businessman has boisterously voiced his opposition to gun-free zones. In a 2014 interview with the Washington Times, Trump criticized the Aurora theater where James Holmes massacred 12 people and injured 70 more for being a gun-free zone. “If some of the people in the movie theater had a gun, they’d have been shooting at him,” he said. “Nobody had a gun so they were totally defenseless.”

Getting rid of gun-free zones has also been a regular talking point for Trump on the campaign trail. “We have to get rid of that whole gun-free zone nonsense and just stop it,” Trump declared during a speech in Charleston, South Carolina on July 21. “We gotta stick up for the Second Amendment.” He made a similar call on Twitter days earlier following the shootings at two military centers that left five individuals, as well as the gunman, dead.

Get rid of gun free zones. The four great marines who were just shot never had a chance. They were highly trained but helpless without guns.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 17, 2015

ThinkProgress spoke with a number of hotels and golf courses in the Trump empire and found that multiple locations were gun-free zones, even for guests with concealed-carry permits.

“No, we don’t allow any firearms in the hotel,” a manager at Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago told ThinkProgress over the phone.

Guns are also banned at Trump National Golf Club in Los Angeles. An employee at the course told ThinkProgress that “we don’t allow firearms on the property.” Asked whether that ban applies even to those with a concealed-carry permit, he said that “with a permit we still don’t allow firearms.”

Nor are weapons, even for those with a concealed carry license, permitted at the Trump International Hotel Waikiki Beach Walk in Honolulu. “It’s a gun-free zone, even for people with a permit,” a customer service agent told ThinkProgress. (Though Hawaii is a “may issue” state with respect to licenses to carry a concealed firearm, it should be noted that, in practice, very few permits are granted.)

Not every Trump-branded hotel and golf course are gun-free. Trump International Hotel & Tower Central Park in New York City told ThinkProgress that a gun could be brought on the premises, but “you have to have a permit to carry it” and “it would have to be concealed.” Likewise, the Trump International Hotel Las Vegas said that “Our security department would have to note as to why you have it and see some paperwork, but other than that it’s fine.”


Poster Comment:

thetruthaboutguns.com reports: "I spoke to the security department at the Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago. He confirmed that the hotel has a “gun with a slash through it” sign at the main entrance. The sign bans Illinois concealed carry firearms permit holders from the premises." yet people believe that Trump, this POS Harry Reid donor and clinton donor, who stands by his assault weapon ban comments, is pro gun! what can you do with anyone who is so severely mentally deficient?

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#1. To: Artisan (#0)

Come correct, Donald; this won't do.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-10-06   15:21:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Lod (#1)

gee, i wonder why this staunchly pro gun advocate trump (who's always been for gun control his whole life, until he ran for president) would still forbid guns from all his properties?

gee this is so confusing to figure out!

Maybe harry reid and hillary clinton, and benny netanyahu, (all pro gun rights pols, right? ) who trump supported financially and campaigned for, can explain it to us. :-)

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2015-10-06   15:53:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Artisan (#0)

Right or wrong his hotels are technically private property so he can make whatever rules he wants on his personal property. It may be a bad example for some who want his views of public property to translate to rules on his private property, but I think this misses the point.

Even if all firearms laws are abolished there will still be those who insist on people disarming when they are on the property of someone that desires it to be so, even if that means the property owner has a monopoly on carrying a weapon (which Trump would have essentially if his hotels have private security).

If Trump is attacked on not being consistently pro-gun, they will have to look elsewhere than his hotel rules. JMHO.

John Howard says: There are 4 schools of economics:
Marxism: steal everything
Keynesianism: steal by counterfeiting whenever needed
Chicago school (Milton Friedman): steal by counterfeiting at a steady, predictable rate
Austrians: don't steal

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PnbC  posted on  2015-10-06   16:25:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: PnbC, Artisan, Lod (#3)

It may be a purely financial/liability issue as well, such as having to pay exorbitant insurance unless he has such a policy.

They kill good trees to put out bad newspapers. - James G. Watt

Dakmar  posted on  2015-10-06   16:59:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Dakmar (#4)

It may be a purely financial/liability issue

I believe you are right about this, Dak. Insurance rates are something these businesses have no control over. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2015-10-06   17:43:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Artisan (#2)

Insurance

Cynicom  posted on  2015-10-06   17:51:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: BTP Holdings, pnbc, dakmar, cynicom, lod, pinguinite, christine (#5)

I appreciate all the "insurance" replies, but I don't believe for one minute that a property liability policy would expressly forbid or mandate that owners post gun ban signs. Many corporate billion dollar companies allow open carry, that controversy has been in the news for years.

A shooting range for example would probably have a higher premium, but to argue that trump is justified or required to have policy banning guns in order to qualify for liability insurance or to make it affordable is totally bogus.

Lod have you ever had an insurer dictate or even ask you about guns on your properties,?

I had a 2 million dollar liability policy some years back for a business and it was only a few hundred bucks a year.

No, trump posts no guns signs (by the way if you read the article it points out that a few of his properties do allow guns, but they will "ask what they're for). That in itself negates the need to explain all I did above.

Anti gunners like trump who advocate "assault weapon bans and longer waiting periods" ban guns because they're F-ing twisted leftist trash (and harry reid/ clinton donors in trumps case) not because some imaginary prohibition on guns on private property in america.

I wonder if anyone at 4um has ever donated millions to harry reid and bill clinton? ;-)

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2015-10-07   9:07:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Artisan (#7)

I've never been asked about weapons, or lack thereof, for any of my insurance needs.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-10-07   14:27:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Lod (#8)

In South many stores, businesses have signs etc, NO GUNS.

All for insurance purposes. Without sign their insurance is void.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-10-07   17:44:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Cynicom (#9)

They should be given premium reductions for having armed employees and patrons.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-10-07   17:56:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Lod (#10)

I thought it was rather dumb. A criminal will not rob cause guns are not allowed?

Cynicom  posted on  2015-10-07   18:09:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Cynicom (#11)

They could put up a sign: No Robberies Allowed

I'm sure that would be just as effective.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-10-07   18:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Artisan (#0)

Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago

I just got off the phone w/the Director of Security @ the above hotel. No problem with carrying concealed, he did ask that I secure it in the room safe should I leave it unattended. Also, this isn't Trump's regulation but rather that of Mayor Emanuel & the City of Chicago. I suspect it's the same with the other hotels mentioned.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-10-07   19:05:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Jethro Tull (#13)

Great detecting, thank you.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-10-07   19:28:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#13)

I just got off the phone w/the Director of Security @ the above hotel. No problem with carrying concealed, he did ask that I secure it in the room safe should I leave it unattended. Also, this isn't Trump's regulation but rather that of Mayor Emanuel & the City of Chicago. I suspect it's the same with the other hotels mentioned.

thanks for that info. But i wouldnt assume that such a city rule (doesnt sound valid in the first place) is established in all the other cities. i know such a thing doesnt exist in los angeles for example.

and i wonder why the gun group linked above, as well as think progress got a different answer than you did, about the exact same hotel in chicago ?

if you wanna check these also that would be great, and maybe can refute the think progress "facts."

as you know i strongly dislike trump, but i respect the facts. :-)

next up:

National Golf Club in Los Angeles
Trump International Hotel Waikiki Beach Walk in Honolulu
Trump International Hotel & Tower Central Park in New York City
Trump International Hotel Las Vegas (reportedly will "ask why you have it"

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2015-10-08   1:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom, lod, jethro tull (#9)

This property casualty article states it can go both ways; an employee forced to be unarmed by his employer can sue and expose the boss to liability for hampering his right to self defense. :-)

Concealed Weapons Can Make for Risky Business

heres another. [[JT, since illinois state law allows concealed carry, I'm surprised, or acually i dont believe, rham emanuel passed any law regarding the handling of guns in that city. generally city laws that contradict state will be overturned quick in court if challenged. but as stated, if the business WANTS to forbid guns, they have that right. That's quite different than blaming their anti-gun policy on big bad government. I think this deserves some more scoping out. What precisely did emmanuel's alleged 'gun regulation' state? ]]

'Concealed carry' is law: So now what for property owners?

'Concealed carry' is law: So now what for property owners?

After a federal lawsuit, 11th-hour passage of legislation, a gubernatorial veto and an override of that veto, Illinois recently joined the rest of the country with the passage of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act. Illinois now allows citizens to carry concealed firearms. This new law has implications for building owners, landlords, and tenants. The work is just beginning for many businesses and property owners as they adopt or alter policies regarding firearms on their premises. Here's what the new law means for each affected group. Building owners Building owners have the authority to prohibit people from entering their property with a concealed firearm. To exercise this right, building owners “must post a sign . . . indicating that firearms are prohibited on the property.” Signs that say the carrying of firearms is prohibited must be “clearly and conspicuously posted” at the entrance of a building, premises or property where it is prohibited. The Illinois State Police is charged with adopting rules and standards for these signs. Building owners should also consider the implications of posting signs. If they prohibit firearms and then do not enforce the rules, are they opening themselves up to additional liability? Landlords and tenants Do landlords want to prohibit the concealed carrying of firearms on their property and in their buildings? If they do, then they should consider what policies to adopt and where to post the signage to prohibit it. Landlords should review their standard lease rules and regulations to ensure that they implement the concealed carry policies. Even though Illinois is the last state to permit concealed carry of firearms, the new law may be a good opportunity to review standard lease provisions in other states. Tenants also should review lease rules and regulations to ensure that they know their obligations with respect to their premises. Tenants also want to be sure that a landlord's concealed carry policies are consistent with those of the tenant. If they aren't, then it may be time to talk to your landlord. Property managers Are you a property manager for an out-of-state owner of real estate? If so, now would be a good time to consult with those owners to be sure that they are aware of their rights and obligations under this new law. Property managers should also review their own internal policies to ensure that they are properly implementing the policies of their clients. Businesses serving alcohol The new law also imposes a new obligation on businesses that make a substantial portion of their revenues from the sale of alcohol. The law prohibits people from carrying a concealed firearm into “any building, real property, and parking area under the control of an establishment that serves alcohol on its premises, if more than 50 percent of the establishment's gross receipts within the prior three months is from the sale of alcohol.” And, if the owner of this type of establishment knowingly fails to prohibit concealed firearms or knowingly makes a false statement about the prohibition, the person will face penalties of up to $5,000. Restaurant and bar owners should be aware of this new obligation not only because of the potential fines but also because of implications to their liability insurance coverage. For example, a restaurant owner's liability insurance may preclude coverage where someone is injured and the restaurant owner has not met its obligations under the new legislation. These are some of the issues that may arise. The time to starting thinking about them is now: Issuance of concealed carry licenses is expected to start in early 2014.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2015-10-08   1:52:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Artisan (#15)

gunwatch.blogspot.com/201...-pushes-trump-to-rid.html

Not so surprisingly, Trump's property in New York City does not ban guns for people with gun permits. Donald Trump has said that he has a permit to carry a gun.

The ThinkProgress article did not have any pictures of gun ban signs on the properties, so we only have the words of the people who they talked to over the phone about the polices. They may be correct, but lower level employees are often mistaken about corporate policies.

How would a guest at a Trump property know that they are not allowed to have a gun, if there are no signs or policy posted? Gun ownership is very high among the well off and wealthy.

I spoke to a source from the security department at the Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago. He was helpful and gracious. He confirmed that the hotel had a gun with a slash through it sign on the main entrance, aimed at concealed carry permit holders. Concealed carry permits became available in Chicago less than two years ago. Illinois was the last state in the U.S. to pass legislation to allow the legal carry of concealed weapons.

My source corrected the notion that guns are not allowed in the Trump Towers. He said the hotel does not search guest luggage, and that while you are staying at the hotel, your room is considered your residence. He stressed that as long as you handled your firearms legally while in your room, the hotel policy did not apply, and that laws concerning the shipping and transportation of firearms were the responsibility of the individual guest.

The Trump National Golf Club in Los Angeles did not have a knowledgeable person available for comment.

The staff person at the Trump International Hotel Waikiki Beach Walk told me that they could not definitively answer my question. They were certain, however, that there was no "gun free zone" or "no guns" sign on the hotel entrance.

The likely outcome of the ThinkProgress complaint about Trump is that he will remove any gun free zones on properties that he has control over. Properties and management contracts can be complex, so it is not certain that a property with "Trump" in its name is under the control of Donald Trump the presidential candidate.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-10-08   7:39:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Jethro Tull (#17)

Yeah that's the same article I linked above. A lot of excuses . Like I said, liability insurance does not forbid guns or force a private business owner to establish no gun signs. Billion dollar retail stores like starbucks and others proudly and happily allow open carry. Trump does not. His properties have signs forbidding guns.

People can twist it, excuse it and do all sorts of contortions to make it look better, but facts are facts.

Like I said I don't know why trumps chicago hotel gave you an opposite reply to that they gave thinkprogress and the gun blog. I suspect its because you sounded more authoritative and spoke to the right person. That's why I think you should contact the other 4 places yourself to get an answer that people can trust. ;-)

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2015-10-08   9:24:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Lod (#1)

7 Gun Control Myths That Just Won’t Die

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-10-08   9:30:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Artisan (#18)

Thanks for the vote of confidence Martin, but this topic doesn't hold a lot of interest for me. I like Trump based on his illegal immigration position & the rejection of our lousy trade deals. Also, his wife makes for a more attractive First Lady than Bill Clinton would :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-10-08   12:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Jethro Tull (#20)

amen.

melaniatrump.com

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-10-08   13:09:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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