4um: STATEMENT FROM THE LAVOY FINICUM FAMILY 1-29-2016

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Title: STATEMENT FROM THE LAVOY FINICUM FAMILY 1-29-2016
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Published: Jan 31, 2016
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Post Date: 2016-01-31 09:21:02 by christine
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Views: 556
Comments: 46

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#1. To: christine (#0)
STATEMENT FROM THE LAVOY FINICUM FAMILY 1-29-2016
We know that there are always at least two sides to every story. We also know and recognize that the FBI and law enforcement agencies involved will do everything in their power to make it appear as if the needless death of our husband, father, grandfather, brother and son, LaVoy Finicum, was justified.
Like almost everyone else, we were not there, so we don’t know exactly what happened. Like most others, we have no choice but to rely on other sources of information. One of those sources of information is the account of Victoria Sharp. Another piece of information is the video recently released by the FBI, along with the FBI’s chosen narrative of what happened. In response to this information, we would like to make a few observations.
The first observation is that from what we understand, the occupation was on track toward a peaceful resolution. LaVoy and those he was with were en route to a public meeting in an adjoining county when they were stopped in something far different than a “routine traffic stop,” as has been portrayed by the media. Unfortunately, the powers that be were not interested in being patient enough for the occupation to come to a peaceful end. Some had called for LaVoy and those he was with to simply be gunned down, just as he was, with no due process. Oregon Governor, Kate Brown, was putting pressure on the FBI to end it sooner rather than later. The Harney County Sheriff’s Department working in conjunction with the FBI tried to do everything they could to emphasize how disruptive the occupation was to the local community, when in reality it appears to have been their own reaction that was causing most of the disruption. And it was the FBI that chose to escalate the situation to force a confrontation, and violent ending.
With respect to the actual facts and circumstances surrounding LaVoy’s death, the video really speaks for itself. People will interpret it according to their own views. As the FBI’s own narrative stated, LaVoy was not wielding a firearm or any other weapon when he was killed. His hands were obviously in the air. Knowing LaVoy, it is our view that he was moving away from the vehicle in an attempt to draw any hostility or violence away from the others. Unfortunately, we don’t know what he was saying, and what was being said to him. He appears to have been gesturing, or trying to keep his balance while moving in the deep snow. Although he may have been animated, he does not appear to have been threatening or posing any real threat or danger to anyone. The FBI claims that LaVoy had a loaded firearm in an inside pocket of his coat. After re- reviewing the extended video, at this point we are not accepting at face value the FBI’s statement that LaVoy was actually armed. But even if he was, as far as we can see, that firearm posed no more danger to anyone than it would have if he had stayed in the vehicle, with his hands on the steering wheel. Contrary to what has been stated by some sources, LaVoy was not “charging” anyone. He appears to have been shot in the back, with his hands in the air.
It is our understanding that according to applicable law, the use of deadly force is justified only if there is a genuine threat of death or serious bodily injury. It is our understanding and position that deadly force should only be used as a last resort. In LaVoy’s case it appears that they were determined to go straight to the last resort. It is our understanding that the U.S. Supreme Court and Ninth Circuit Court of appeals have ruled as follows:
“The reasonableness of [officers’] actions depends both on whether the officers were in danger at the precise moment that they used force and on whether [the officers’] own reckless or deliberate conduct during the seizure unreasonably created the need to use such force.” “[W]here an officer intentionally or recklessly provokes a violent confrontation . . . he may be held liable for his otherwise defensive use of deadly force.” Although officers may claim self-defense, they may still be liable for using excessive force if their reckless and unconstitutional actions create the need to use excessive force.
It is our understanding that in addition to shooting LaVoy multiple times, after he was left lying harmlessly on the ground the officers also fired upon his truck and the passengers in it, putting them all at risk, despite the fact that they were posing no threat to anyone. The video clearly shows one of the windows being blown out. It has been gut- wrenching for our family to view the video of LaVoy being shot, and then left to lie in the snow while a whole army of so-called “public servants” terrorized the others. We can only hope their families never have to watch such a thing. We will be interested to inspect the vehicle. We will also be interested to see the autopsy report.

Ada posted on 2016-01-31 10:18:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: christine (#0)
After watching the video of the shooting, it looks like when the guy reached for his side, he wasn't reaching for a gun, but reacting to getting hit by a bullet.

Obnoxicated posted on 2016-01-31 11:22:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: christine (#0)
Thanks for posting this.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
HAPPY2BME-4UM posted on 2016-01-31 11:23:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: christine (#0)
What this government has become makes me sick.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 11:41:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: Cynicom (#4)
What this government has become makes me sick.

The county sheriff was not happy about Bundy or his colleagues. The Oregon governor was also in the same spirit of dissatisfaction. Of course, the federal government was clearly dissatisfied with "domestic terrorism" which Bundy exhibited.
What level of government are you "sick" about?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 11:51:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: Obnoxicated (#2)
After watching the video of the shooting, it looks like when the guy reached for his side, he wasn't reaching for a gun, but reacting to getting hit by a bullet.

Could be. The autopsy should show how many times he was shot while standing vs lying in the now, as claimed above. It seems that one of the shots he took while standing may have killed him instantly, in which case, any other hits while standing occurred first.
Eventually, an account by those in the SUV should be available. They *were* there, and could comment about the circumstances of Finicum's death.
This is the first I heard about any shots made at the SUV.

Pinguinite posted on 2016-01-31 12:00:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: Pridie Nones (#5)
What level of government are you "sick" about?

Top to bottom, every level, federal, state and local.
The higher one goes, the greater the rottenness..

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 12:08:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: Cynicom (#7)
The higher one goes, the greater the rottenness..

That is an interesting perspective, Cynicom. Of course, in Burns, there were local protestors sent by the FBI and other outside interests such as George Soros that influenced public opinion about the standoff.
So, the local issues were completely obliterated by exceptional forces against the US Constitution appearing on mass media. You are aware of this fact, aren't you?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 12:19:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: Pridie Nones (#8)
You are aware of this fact, aren't you?

Spent most of my working life in military and Federal service.
Saw both from inside out. Bad then, rotten now. That goes back to 1950.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 12:31:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: Cynicom (#9)
Saw both from inside out. Bad then, rotten now. That goes back to 1950.

It is strange to see that for minor trespassing, Americans are being murdered attempting to peacefully demonstrate their concerns about an over zealous government.
I wager in 1950, you didn't see this sort of ruthless exercise of government power, did you?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 12:41:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: Pridie Nones (#10) (Edited)
I wager in 1950, you didn't see this sort of ruthless exercise of government power, did you?

The good impression of government goes back to the 1930s and the great depression.
Good impression in that it was neither seen nor heard to any extent in the outback of America.
FDR started the alphabet agencies, now they are legion.
Waste on the Federal level far outpaces the corruption in dollar value. Why steal it when you you can avail yourself legally.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 12:58:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Cynicom (#11)
The good impression of government goes back to the 1930s and the great depression.

That is a curious perspective. How can anyone have the impression that government is "good?" "Good" with respect to what?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 13:06:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Pridie Nones (#12)
How can anyone have the impression that government is "good?"

""""Good impression in that it was neither seen nor heard to any extent in the outback of America. """"

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 13:14:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Cynicom (#13)
""""Good impression in that it was neither seen nor heard to any extent in the outback of America. """"

Looking into the future, what is your prediction concerning Finnicum's murder by the FBI? I understand that MORE protests are occurring in Burns about the federal government's violent and treasonous acts, now.
More protests are not good impressions. Clearly, the US government failed.

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 13:23:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: Pridie Nones (#14)
After being stood-down by the Bundys in NV, .gov wanted to kill people in OR and so they did.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-01-31 13:37:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: Pridie Nones (#12)
How can anyone have the impression that government is "good?

Have you ever heard the expression, "less is better ..."? It was definitely good when there was less government. Unfortunately, government has been slowly increasing in size over many decades. The federal government now employs 2.1 million civilian workers, who are receiving compensation at an amount 39 per cent higher than the average compensation paid to private enterprise employees in 1990.

Phant2000 posted on 2016-01-31 13:45:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: Lod (#15)

It looks as though Ammon Bundy realizes an issue about his own stance for the occupation. Why is that?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 13:49:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: Phant2000 (#16)
Have you ever heard the expression, "less is better ..."? It was definitely good when there was less government. Unfortunately, government has been slowly increasing in size over many decades. The federal government now employs 2.1 million civilian workers, who are receiving compensation at an amount 39 per cent higher than the average compensation paid to private enterprise employees in 1990.

Don't worry about a thing. All 2016 US Presidential candidates havn't addressed this issue. So why are you a trouble maker?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 14:12:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: Pridie Nones (#14)
Looking into the future, what is your prediction concerning Finnicum's murder by the FBI?

Randy Weaver, Waco, others, now this.
This country is going down, financially and or militarily.
I do not see Americans willing to shed their blood to bring to a halt this corrupt, criminal government.
Those under age 70 will endure the total collapse.
Americans will not fight, as shown by the Revolutionary war. Only three per cent did the bleeding and dying. The rest were like jackals, waiting to join the winners.
Personal opinion, Trump could well be the next Hitler or Churchill if he wins.
Either way, I am for Trump, throw a noose around Washington, put all the elected people therein on trial for treason.
No exceptions. Have done with this cancer.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 14:16:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: Pridie Nones (#18)
So why are you a trouble maker?

Phant and I go back to the depression, well over eighty years olde.
We have seen the decline, witnessed it, lived it.
Modern Americans are TV educated.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 14:19:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: Cynicom (#19)
The only thing supporting this hull of a country are the jew-bank printing presses.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-01-31 14:22:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: Cynicom (#20) (Edited)
Modern Americans are TV educated.

If you fail to know history, you are doomed to repeat it. ;)
barnesreview.org
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2016-01-31 14:26:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: Pridie Nones (#10)
It is strange to see that for minor trespassing, Americans are being murdered attempting to peacefully demonstrate their concerns about an over zealous government.
I wager in 1950, you didn't see this sort of ruthless exercise of government power, did you?

Go back a few more years to the Bonus Marchers of 1932 to see the results of the government policy toward "trespassing."
They were bitches then and they are bitches now.
"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan
randge posted on 2016-01-31 14:29:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: randge (#23)
Oddity of history...
In 1932 the military put down the "revolt", led by MacArthur, Patton and Eisenhower.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 14:32:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: BTP Holdings (#22)
Government owned media????
Check Fox news main page on internet.
Not a word about the shooting, not a word.

Happenstance? Guilty bastards.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 14:40:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: Cynicom (#20)
Modern Americans are TV educated.

Well, some of us are rising above and about issues confronting us on the internet and away from TV or radio entertainment shows. As all considerations for and about change, it takes time to show demonstrable improvement.

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 14:42:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: Pridie Nones (#18)
So why are you a trouble maker?

How in the world did any of what I posted result in being labeled a "trouble maker"? Anyone thinking that of my remarks is from a much younger generation that immediately attack with name calling and insults as soon as they perceive a difference of opinion.
I will say, however, that directing the response to me personally ("So why are YOU ...") is a rude and inconsiderate retort to anyone in my generation.

Phant2000 posted on 2016-01-31 14:42:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Phant2000 (#27)
You missed my point. I was actually applauding you about your fine post that suggests serious issues that we should consider. I attempted to inject humor by suggesting that presidential candidates don't address your perspective; they avoid your points altogether.
Peace.

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 14:49:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: Pridie Nones (#26)
As all considerations for and about change, it takes time to show demonstrable improvement.

Improvement???
In my 84 years there has been NO improvement, rather there has been and is a steady decline in the freedom of Americans.
Government is an out of control cancer, one that needs immediate surgery, preferably by Trump as Hitler or Churchill. I no longer care which. The 97 per cent of TV educated Americans are in for a horrible awakening.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 14:49:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: Pridie Nones (#28)
Poppycock!

Phant2000 posted on 2016-01-31 14:53:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: Cynicom (#29)
The 97 per cent of TV educated Americans are in for a horrible awakening.

For the sake of this discussion, lets solidly claim we are the vocal membership of the 3% of remaining awake and capable Americans that care about the serious issues that have been on-going in America.
What do we do about the perception of treasonous acts from about 2.1 million government workers and the other 250 million citizens that consider us as domestic terrorists? They want us gunned down just like others that you brought attention towards.

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 15:04:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: Pridie Nones (#31)
What do we do

Not a thing, 97 per cent of Americans are an inert mass.
Example, try to stir up interest on this 4um, to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, that is a demonstration of our dislike of this government.
Your support will be little or none.

Cynicom posted on 2016-01-31 15:14:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: Cynicom (#32)
You suggest that the 3 per centers are completly disconnected from the 97 per centers.
I don't believe that idea, at all.

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 15:18:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: Cynicom (#24)
Oddity of history...

I wonder how odd it really is.
Regarding a homicidal Washington, some of us have noticed a pattern. (Heh-heh.)
"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan
randge posted on 2016-01-31 15:41:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: randge (#34)
Regarding a homicidal Washington, some of us have noticed a pattern. (Heh-heh.)

Maybe Obama's promise of, "Change you can trust" included the murder of good and innocent Americans that only trespassed on so-called "federal" offices?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 16:00:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: Cynicom, Pridie Nones (#13)
Good impression in that it was neither seen nor heard to any extent in the outback of America.

When the FBI raided the home of Randy Weaver in Idaho, they shot Sammy Weaver in the back when he was running away. They killed the family dog and Lon Horiuchi shot Vicky Weaver in the doorway of the house when she was holding her infant child. The Weavers received Millions of Dollars from FEDGOV as settlement for the loss of the wife. This is prime evidence of gov't misconduct. ;)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2016-01-31 16:32:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: Pridie Nones (#35)
Yes, as in "Change you can trust" = "An ass-whipping you can count on."
"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan
randge posted on 2016-01-31 16:32:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: Cynicom (#19)
throw a noose around Washington, put all the elected people therein on trial for treason.
No exceptions. Have done with this cancer.

Got it right on this account. ;)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2016-01-31 16:38:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: BTP Holdings (#36)
When the FBI raided the home of Randy Weaver in Idaho, they shot Sammy Weaver in the back when he was running away. They killed the family dog and Lon Horiuchi shot Vicky Weaver in the doorway of the house when she was holding her infant child. The Weavers received Millions of Dollars from FEDGOV as settlement for the loss of the wife. This is prime evidence of gov't misconduct. ;)

Excellent review of past SITREP considerations. Do you think there is any application about the current issue?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 16:47:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: randge (#37)
"An ass-whipping you can count on."

Perhaps a new political party name that intends a meaningful removal of layers of government bureaucracy/largesse that performs to American ideals based on the traditional model of the US Constitution?

Pridie Nones posted on 2016-01-31 16:52:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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