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Title: Extensive Bitcoin Use 'Could Disrupt Financial Stability' Unless Restricted
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://sputniknews.com/business/201 ... tcoin-financial-stability.html
Published: May 27, 2016
Author: Sputnik
Post Date: 2016-05-27 11:54:44 by Pinguinite
Keywords: None
Views: 121
Comments: 23

Extensive use of bitcoins and other virtual currencies could pose a threat to the state's financial stability unless restricted, Russia's Investigative Committee Chairman Alexander Bastrykin said Thursday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Bitcoin, a popular virtual web-based currency, has appreciated against the Russian ruble, rising in value from approximately 30,000 rubles ($392) to almost 33,000 rubles by mid-January, according to CoinDesk. Its value remains volatile against most currencies.

"According to analysts, the circulation volume of monetary surrogates in Russia has already reached one percent of GDP. If this figure grows by 10 percent or more, this tool could become a real danger to the financial stability of the state. Unchecked expansion of the money supply via surrogate growth will lead to the devaluation and a gradual elimination of the ruble from the currency market. As a result, the state could lose its monopoly on money emission, as well as the income it generates," Bastrykin told the Russian Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper in an interview.

2016 to Become the Year of Bitcoin, Traders Predict

With money surrogates increasingly popular and more competitive than conventional currencies, the market must be restricted in its initial stage, Bastrykin added.

Launched in 2009, the bitcoin cryptocurrency reached its peak value in late 2013, trading at over $1,000 per bitcoin. Since 2014, its value has fluctuated between $200 and $500.

Cryptocurrencies have no material form and global currency regulation does not apply. An unlimited number of anonymous sources could issue and use the currency.

Russian law bans the issue of any currency not approved by the Central Bank of Russia.

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#1. To: All (#0)

How do you get some Bitcoin? The only way I've seen involves giving up tons of personal info, a hand scan etc.

NN translation of headline: Extensive Bitcoin Use Could Liberate amerikans from the Federal Gulag, Make Lots of Them Millionaires, and Restore Financial Privacy

(For such a gargantuan population, you never hear much about its ill effects. Is that a farming or mining scene?)

-----------------------------------------------------

How the world was lost:The African population of Zimbabwe had increased from an estimated 300,000 in 1890 to 7 million in 1980. This phenomenal increase was the result of the development of a modern infrastructure, first-world health standards and the bountiful crop harvests produced by the white Rhodesian farmers.
By July 2006, the population had almost doubled to 13 million, the result of a symbiotic relationship that had been forged between the 3,400 commercial farmers and the other inhabitants. (IMPACT newsletter)

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2016-05-27   14:47:23 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pinguinite (#0)

hahahahaha !

I am proud to be a small part of the Crypto Revolution !!


"Define yourself as one beloved by God. This is the true self. Every other identity is illusion."—Brennan Manning

Rotara  posted on  2016-05-27   15:19:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: NeoconsNailed (#1)

How do you get some Bitcoin? The only way I've seen involves giving up tons of personal info, a hand scan etc.

That I don't know, but a web search turned up localbitcoins.com/ which offers locations for buying bitcoins in person.

There may well be KYC requirements to buy bitcoins from some places (That is , convert USD to bitcoins (BTC)). That would be if those outfits required it due to their still being part of the tightly watched finance system. I don't know about those. However, if you wanted to accept BTC from anyone who already had them then that would likely be a different story, depending on who you would be dealing with.

There are no doubt on-line outfits that would sell you btc, and those places could well be located outside the USA so US laws wouldn't apply. However, one should be careful as an exchange of BTC is done instantly, and would certainly not be done before you pay. And whether it's done after you pay is up to the vendor, whether they are trustworthy or not. There could well be scammers out there, so doing it in person might be more secure.

Alternatively, you could put your PC to work to mine bitcoins. You may end up paying more in electricity then you would mine, but if you are lucky, your PC could strike it rich to the tune of about $11k worth of BTC, at the current exchange rate. The process basically involves having your PC throw random numbers together hoping to create the exact sequence needed to qualify as a new & unique set of coins. Though computers are fast, that speed is balanced by the extremely slim chances that any single random number sequence will qualify as a new coin.

Pinguinite  posted on  2016-05-28   17:40:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Pinguinite (#3)

Thanks -- would that last bit be ripping them off?

-----------------------------------------------------

How the world was lost:The African population of Zimbabwe had increased from an estimated 300,000 in 1890 to 7 million in 1980. This phenomenal increase was the result of the development of a modern infrastructure, first-world health standards and the bountiful crop harvests produced by the white Rhodesian farmers.
By July 2006, the population had almost doubled to 13 million, the result of a symbiotic relationship that had been forged between the 3,400 commercial farmers and the other inhabitants. (IMPACT newsletter)

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2016-05-28   21:48:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: NeoconsNailed (#4)

Thanks -- would that last bit be ripping them off?

heheh.... great question, but no, not at all. Not in the least. It's no more ripping off anyone than is taking a pick and shovel out to some old gold mine and digging for more gold. If you don't do it, the gold isn't discovered and life goes on. The supply of gold in the world is slightly less, and because of that it's more valuable, and economics is affected accordingly. But if you don't find it today, someone else might find it tomorrow, and then they'll have it to spend instead of you. Then again, you didn't have to work to find it and they did. You did something else which might be adding some other kind of value to society.

If you find it, it's yours, and people want it. It's called mining when done with a pick and shovel, and it's also called mining when your PC does the work, and the concepts are the exact same. You will send more money on electricity to find the bitcoins, and once your PC stumbles upon a particular numeric sequence that is a bitcoin, no one else in the world can find that same sequence. Or they can, but since you already found it, it will be no good to them. They have to find another sequence that no one has ever found before. There are a limited number of sequences that can be found so just like a real gold mine, the more that's mined, the less that remains to be found and the harder it is to find. That provides a natural limit to the supply of bitcoins that can be created.

Pinguinite  posted on  2016-05-28   22:56:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Pinguinite (#5)

That's too wacky for my comprehension. I'll let you guys have all my mining interests.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2016-05-28   23:51:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Pinguinite (#5)

Way cool. I guess what I meant was how would the bitcoin people regard it.

Since you're our computer creator, are you doing any such mining?

(Why is nature so cruel? That's over 1/10 the circumference of the world!)

-----------------------------------------------------

How the world was lost:The African population of Zimbabwe had increased from an estimated 300,000 in 1890 to 7 million in 1980. This phenomenal increase was the result of the development of a modern infrastructure, first-world health standards and the bountiful crop harvests produced by the white Rhodesian farmers.
By July 2006, the population had almost doubled to 13 million, the result of a symbiotic relationship that had been forged between the 3,400 commercial farmers and the other inhabitants. (IMPACT newsletter)

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2016-05-29   6:38:12 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pinguinite, lod, neoconsnailed (#5)

, March 18, 2013). SECTION 3. SCOPE In general, the sale or exchange of convertible virtual currency, or the use of convertible virtual currency to pay for goods or services in a real-world economy transaction, has tax consequences that may result in a tax liability. This notice addresses only the U.S. federal tax consequences of transactions in, or transactions that use, convertible virtual currency, and the term “virtual currency” as used in Section 4 refers only to convertible virtual currency. No inference should be drawn with respect to virtual currencies not described in this notice. The Treasury Department and the IRS recognize that there may be other questions regarding the tax consequences of virtual currency not addressed in this notice that warrant consideration. Therefore, the Treasury Department and the IRS request comments from the public regarding other types or aspects of virtual currency transactions that should be addressed in future guidance.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs- drop/n-14-21.pdf

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2016-05-29   9:07:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: All (#8)

http://www.economicpolicyjourna l.com/2013/12/gary-north- destroys-bitcoin.html?m=1 http://www.garynorth.com/public /11866.cfm

Excerpt:

Bitcoins. Almost nobody knows how to buy Bitcoins. The person must buy them through a Bitcoins currency exchange company. He has no idea which ones are reliable. He risks getting into a Bitcoins-related Web business like Silk Road, which the government shut down. He risks getting into an exchange like Sheep Marketplace, which was hit by a $100 million heist, and which shut down, leaving its users with a 100% loss. There is no way to prosecute. There is no way for a depositor to get his digital money back. He bought secrecy with respect to any police agency, so nobody can find out where his money went, and he has no legal claim against anybody.

He has to know how to use computers to get access to this kind of money. Not many people know how to do this online. In other words, there is a huge learning curve involved in gaining access to this privacy money.

Conclusion. Here is a fundamental economic rule: as the price of anything increases, less is demanded. The information cost of discovering how to gain access to Bitcoins is high. The information cost of discovering how to use an ATM machine, or a drive-through bank teller system, or walking into a bank and withdrawing currency is about as close to zero as imaginable.

Therefore, anyone who promotes Bitcoins is a viable alternative to greenbacks is ignoring the following: (1) the low information costs of gaining access to greenbacks; (2) the complete lack of interest on the part of the government or the bank in withdrawals of a few hundred dollars at the time; (3) a market for this currency that is essentially the same as the market for digital currency; and (4) the possibility of negotiating discounts for purchases with this currency.

2. MARKETABILITY

Here, I discuss the Austrian school's definition of money: the most marketable commodity.

Greenbacks. If you own dollars in the form of paper currency, these dollars are available for use in any retail establishment. You can go into Walmart, Target, or any other retail establishment, and you can buy anything in that store for paper money. You will not be asked to show an identification card when you leave. No one will pay any attention to the fact that you are buying this with paper money. The person at the checkout counter will simply take your money, and issue you a receipt. You will walk out of the store with your receipt and whatever it is that you bought.

You can repeat this with any public utility. Paper money is familiar to everyone at a checkout counter. The employee will probably not examine the currency to find out if it is counterfeit. In other words, there are no transaction costs in using currency, other than driving to the retail establishment and driving home. But, with respect to buying with this currency, there are no transaction costs. There are no search costs. You do not have to search for which companies are willing to sell you something for your paper money. They all are.

The market for paper money is essentially the same as the market for digital money. There is no restriction on the use of paper money. The Federal Reserve System is behind its paper money. The Federal Reserve System is not going to limit the use of paper money. Its name is on the paper money. There is no hostility between the Federal Reserve System and paper money issued by the Federal Reserve System. There is no hostility by government agencies to the use of currency, as long as the currency is being used in statistically normal patterns, with respect to withdrawals. Because there are no restrictions on the use of paper money, no question is asked at a retail establishment regarding the use of paper money to make a purchase. Therefore, retail establishments constantly allow people to buy anything they want in the store with paper money. The market for paper money is coterminous with digital money within the geographical area under the jurisdiction of the United States government and the Federal Reserve System.

Bitcoins. You cannot use Bitcoins to buy anything in approximately 99.9% of American retail establishments. This is probably too low an estimate. You cannot buy what you want, when you want, where you want with Bitcoins. There are search costs involved in locating anybody who will sell you anything with Bitcoins.

When you walk into a retail store and ask if you can buy anything in the store for Bitcoins, the employee will not know what you are talking about. Almost nobody in the store will know what you are talking about. There is no checkout counter that converts Bitcoins into digital dollars, and then issues you a receipt for whatever it is you just purchased Therefore, Bitcoins have close to zero marketability.

The only way you can buy anything with Bitcoins is because the seller is going to convert the Bitcoins immediately into dollars. Bitcoins do not have a separate market that is not tied to the banking system. In China, on December 5, the People's bank of China issued new regulations on Bitcoins.

"Internet websites that provide bitcoin registration or transaction services should be sure to fulfill anti-money laundering obligations, identify user identities, request users to register with real names and provide information of names, identity card numbers, etc…. any clues related to using bitcoin for fraud, gambling, money laundering and other criminal activities should also be promptly reported to the police." Bitcoins all over the world fell by one-third within a day. The peak had been a few days earlier: $1,242. They are in the low-$700s today. The volatility is gut-wrenching.

Therefore, hardly anyone is going to sell you anything for Bitcoins who does not have the ability to convert instantly those Bitcoins back into dollars or his own domestic currency. The risk of holding Bitcoins more than a few seconds is way too high for any retail establishment. So, for a retail establishment to be willing to sell you anything for Bitcoins, it must have a computer program tied to its bank in order to convert Bitcoins into dollars instantaneously. This means that the retail seller has to let his bank know that he is using Bitcoins. This means that, at any time, the Federal Reserve System can collapse the price of Bitcoins.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2016-05-29   9:19:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Artisan (#9)

The peak had been a few days earlier: $1,242. They are in the low-$700s today. The volatility is gut-wrenching.

Thanks much; I'm no longer into gut-wrenching, it's just not good for my mental or physical well-being.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2016-05-29   10:33:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pinguinite (#3)

localbitcoins.com/

I checked that site and it seems you need some big bucks to participate. That leaves me out of the equation. I am poor by those standards, and am forced to live on my disability pay. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2016-05-29   10:49:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Artisan (#9)

This means that the retail seller has to let his bank know that he is using Bitcoins. This means that, at any time, the Federal Reserve System can collapse the price of Bitcoins.

I knew there was a reason I never got into bitcoins. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2016-05-29   11:00:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Artisan, Lod, BTP Holdings, NeoconsNailed (#9)

There's a lot of hogwash in that write up. Will address the points later as no time at the moment.

Pinguinite  posted on  2016-05-29   11:18:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Artisan (#8)

SECTION 3. SCOPE In general, the sale or exchange of convertible virtual currency, or the use of convertible virtual currency to pay for goods or services in a real-world economy transaction, has tax consequences that may result in a tax liability.

Certainly the gov will want to continue taxing the transfer of money via laws and regs, but when it comes to bitcoin or other crypto currency, the question is how will it be enforced?

With the USD, money is much more easily tracked. Banks can see account values and transfers to and from the account. But with cryptocurrencies, banks are not needed. In fact they are obsolete, much as the movie rental retail outfit called Blockbuster became obsolete with netflix, bittorrent, and the pirate bay. There is no need or reason for digital wealth to be stored at some 3rd party institution. It can instead be stored on a cell phone or flash drive. Add to that the anonymity of transactions, and governments loose any and all ability to enforce any taxes related to the flow of money.

Sure they can make all the laws they want, but if any law is not enforceable on a large scale, it will fail as a matter of practicality.

Pinguinite  posted on  2016-05-29   12:27:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Artisan (#9)

Ah... Gary North. I think he's the guy who doesn't like gold either. But thanks for posting.

Bitcoins. Almost nobody knows how to buy Bitcoins. The person must buy them through a Bitcoins currency exchange company. He has no idea which ones are reliable.

Yes, reliable and trustworthy exchange outfits are a concern. But really it's no more a concern with any outfit you may buy something from over the internet. How do you know that on-line book & hobby stores you buy from will really send you the merchandise?

Reputation and a long history are signs of reliability, and understandably so. The same will apply to bitcoin exchanges. As a new tech, the "long history" will naturally be lacking, but in time that will be remedied. Also, licensed exchanges for bitcoin are now coming on line.

He risks getting into a Bitcoins-related Web business like Silk Road, which the government shut down.

Governments cannot eradicate bitcoin via legal edict. They simply have no practical power to do so.

He risks getting into an exchange like Sheep Marketplace, which was hit by a $100 million heist, and which shut down, leaving its users with a 100% loss.

Bitcoins that are stored on your phone cannot be stolen by such a heist. Anyone losing digital money that way did so because they trusted a 3rd party with their money. It's no different than delivering a sack of cash to them and then losing it to an old-fashioned armed robbery.

Only if your phone is stolen could you potentially be at risk, but digital currency on phones can be encrypted, hidden and/or password protected in any number of ways. Combine that with having your digital money routinely backed up at home on solid state data storage (flash drives) which are highly reliable, and your safety from theft is extremely high.

There is no way to prosecute. There is no way for a depositor to get his digital money back. He bought secrecy with respect to any police agency, so nobody can find out where his money went, and he has no legal claim against anybody.

No, not true, actually. Though digital money is anonymous, it is, ironically, still trackable. The digital blockchain data will still reflect transactions ID'd by codes. A payment sender can demonstrate that a transaction was sent, volunteering to ID themselves and show such proof. A vendor not reciprocating with a product or service could be on the hook just as if it received a CC payment.

He has to know how to use computers to get access to this kind of money. Not many people know how to do this online. In other words, there is a huge learning curve involved in gaining access to this privacy money.

This is complete baloney. That is what software is for. It's to make complicated stuff easy to use. How many people understand how youtube really works or any other information thing they find on the net? Very few, but still billions of people still watch videos and buy stuff. Crypto currency accommodation is simply a matter of software being developed to make it easy, just like everything else, and such software for phones is already on the table and available for smartphones & PCs.

Therefore, anyone who promotes Bitcoins is a viable alternative to greenbacks is ignoring the following: (1) the low information costs of gaining access to greenbacks;

IOW, because people are not used to cryptocurrency, they will stick with what they are familiar with. That is true, but it only really affects the speed at which a transition to a new system will take. As long as there are advantages to the new system, the transition will still occur.

There is no restriction on the use of paper money.

Oh, yes there is. Try buying something over 10K, or even depositing amounts just under that and you get targeted for structuring. Put half that in a car and get stopped and searched by the police and you lose it.

Bitcoins. You cannot use Bitcoins to buy anything in approximately 99.9% of American retail establishments. This is probably too low an estimate. You cannot buy what you want, when you want, where you want with Bitcoins. There are search costs involved in locating anybody who will sell you anything with Bitcoins.

If this were not true then North's entire diatribe would be moot. Digital currency is new and the mass transition has not yet occurred. But according to a youtube vid I'll post, many major establishments are starting to accept bitcoin.

The only way you can buy anything with Bitcoins is because the seller is going to convert the Bitcoins immediately into dollars.

Not necessarily. They may want to retain their bitcoins for transacting with a supplier. Though if they want to convert back to USD or any currency of their choice, exchange services are available right now for that exact purpose.

In China, on December 5, the People's bank of China issued new regulations on Bitcoins.

If China did this, it's evidence that bitcoin is growing in popularity. And as with the US, the gov can try to regulate it all they want. But when the currency cannot be physically detected and transactions anonymous, these efforts will ultimately fail.

Bitcoins all over the world fell by one-third within a day. The peak had been a few days earlier: $1,242. They are in the low-$700s today. The volatility is gut-wrenching.

It is only natural for a new commodity to have such high volatility as the world does not know fully of it's potential. Bitcoins used to be $1 each. With more time, this volatility will become more and more subdued, and that's been evident since this dramatic change North cites.

And this next part is total BS:

Therefore, hardly anyone is going to sell you anything for Bitcoins who does not have the ability to convert instantly those Bitcoins back into dollars or his own domestic currency. The risk of holding Bitcoins more than a few seconds is way too high for any retail establishment.

< /end BS>

So, for a retail establishment to be willing to sell you anything for Bitcoins, it must have a computer program tied to its bank in order to convert Bitcoins into dollars instantaneously.

Such service is available.

This means that the retail seller has to let his bank know that he is using Bitcoins.

This means that, at any time, the Federal Reserve System can collapse the price of Bitcoins.

And that last sentence is unquestionably the most ignorant sentence in the whole damn essay.

Pinguinite  posted on  2016-05-29   13:10:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: BTP Holdings (#11)

I checked that site and it seems you need some big bucks to participate. That leaves me out of the equation. I am poor by those standards, and am forced to live on my disability pay. ;)

Where I live it seems I can buy as little as $40-$50 worth of bitcoin.

Pinguinite  posted on  2016-05-29   13:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pinguinite (#16) (Edited)

Where I live it seems I can buy as little as $40-$50 worth of bitcoin.

You can't spend it in the stores, you need to do it online. It is similar to using debit or credit cards. First, though, you need to find a website that accepts them.

Several years ago, I knew a guy that went to this small town in Arkansas where they were accepting Liberty Dollars. You could go into one of the stores and exchange your FRNs for Liberty Dollars. Then spend them just like regular money in any of about 30 retail stores, and even paid sales tax also. Of course the taxes had to be remitted in FRNs to keep things square. When you were finished shopping you could change Liberty Dollars back to FRNs before you left.

But that is all gone now along with the Liberty Dollar. Liberty Dollars were backed by silver and gold, unlike FRNs which are backed by NOTHING. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2016-05-29   15:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Pinguinite (#15)

Thanks for the rebuttal. I found that link to norths column on wenzels austrian site. You should actually send your replies to economicpolicyjournal, hed probably post them. I agree with you that there are obvious restrictions on cash- for North to claim otherwise was idiocy. I dont have a dog in the fight for bitcoin. It's not for me, but I think anyone should be free to trade and risk their assets however they see fit.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2016-05-29   17:06:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Artisan, BTP Holdings, Pinguinite, All (#18)

Great discussion, folks! THANK YOU Pinguinite in particular for going through it in such detail.

The next question is will the govt or IRS goons contact you over any large Bitcoin purchase e.g. a house. Or a big batch of gold, say. I believe the assumption you'll be forced to disprove is that you're a drug dealer and paid for it in cash.

It has to be purely unlawful for them to even look at an alternative currency much less tax it, but such it is with career criminals.

(Those commies have ALWAYS been lying hypocrites, insane with lust for the choicest fruits of "capitalism".)

-----------------------------------------------------

How the world was lost:The African population of Zimbabwe had increased from an estimated 300,000 in 1890 to 7 million in 1980. This phenomenal increase was the result of the development of a modern infrastructure, first-world health standards and the bountiful crop harvests produced by the white Rhodesian farmers.
By July 2006, the population had almost doubled to 13 million, the result of a symbiotic relationship that had been forged between the 3,400 commercial farmers and the other inhabitants. (IMPACT newsletter)

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2016-05-29   20:50:37 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: NeoconsNailed (#19)

Kim spent $1 million a year on Hennessey? He must be drunk as a skunk most of the time. LOL

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2016-05-29   20:59:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: BTP Holdings (#20)

Commie figures are amazing. How is it we can spend what is it, 20 million every time Moochelle goes on a vacation with his retinue?

Mebbe Hennessey charged Kim $10,000 a bottle and the real thrill for the monster was knowing how he was lording it over his enslaved masses.

-----------------------------------------------------

How the world was lost:The African population of Zimbabwe had increased from an estimated 300,000 in 1890 to 7 million in 1980. This phenomenal increase was the result of the development of a modern infrastructure, first-world health standards and the bountiful crop harvests produced by the white Rhodesian farmers.
By July 2006, the population had almost doubled to 13 million, the result of a symbiotic relationship that had been forged between the 3,400 commercial farmers and the other inhabitants. (IMPACT newsletter)

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2016-05-29   21:19:56 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: NeoconsNailed (#19)

The next question is will the govt or IRS goons contact you over any large Bitcoin purchase e.g. a house. Or a big batch of gold, say. I believe the assumption you'll be forced to disprove is that you're a drug dealer and paid for it in cash.

Before the gov could bother you about a big purchase, they have to find out about it. And one of the beauties of cryptocurrency is that the gov loses a big ally they have in their finance tracking, and that's the banks. Banks always report transactions > $10k to the gov, so if the banks don't know about a transaction, the gov has to fall back to other methods, like counties reporting real estate xfers, sellers voluntarily reporting stuff on tax forms, or gold bullion dealers reporting sales, and similar type situations.

If the gov is watching someone because they might be doing something actually illegal and immoral, bitcoin will certainly make that harder for the gov. But the task of an innocent person having to prove that money came from legit source for a big purchase would probably be the same in a cryptocurrency scenario.

But at least police dogs won't be able to smell $100K worth of bitcoins stored on a phone at a traffic stop, which they will do with $100K in paper cash. And police could handle a phone with $100K worth of bitcoin on it and if things are done right, they'd have no clue that of the 300 photos on the phone, the one of the poodle eating a hotdog at a family picnic is the one that has the $100K worth of bitcoins embedded in it.

Pinguinite  posted on  2016-05-30   3:54:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Pinguinite (#22)

As I suspected, it appears all large transactions are snitched to the govt

https://www.irs.gov/uac/form-1099-s-proceeds-from-real-estate-transactions

and one reported in Bitcoins would theoretically be a big red flag. But of course govt is a big clunky bureaucracy and we're supposed to think positive..... note that it says "current products", clearly signaling once again that the public are the IRS's customers. They used to frequently bleat about how income taxes are voluntary, but no longer even though it's still technically true.

-----------------------------------------------------

How the world was lost:The African population of Zimbabwe had increased from an estimated 300,000 in 1890 to 7 million in 1980. This phenomenal increase was the result of the development of a modern infrastructure, first-world health standards and the bountiful crop harvests produced by the white Rhodesian farmers.
By July 2006, the population had almost doubled to 13 million, the result of a symbiotic relationship that had been forged between the 3,400 commercial farmers and the other inhabitants. (IMPACT newsletter)

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2016-05-30   9:52:09 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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