4um: Trump: The Minimum Wage Has to Go Up

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Title: Trump: The Minimum Wage Has to Go Up
Source: Epj
URL Source: http://ww.economicpolicyjournal.com ... minimum-wage-has-to-go-up.html
Published: Jul 29, 2016
Author: .
Post Date: 2016-07-29 10:35:54 by Artisan
Keywords: None
Views: 1666
Comments: 52

Donald Trump displays more economic ignorance.

Minimum wage laws are evil.
If Trump becomes president, I am going to have no problem finding material for EPJ.
Come to think of it, I won't have problems with material if Hillary is president either,
Donnie or Hillary as president won't be good for most of you, but it will be a gift to EPJ.
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#1. To: All (#0)
Correct url is here www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2016/07/trump- minimum-wage-has-to-go-up.html
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2016-07-29 10:38:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: All (#1)
Auto link doesn't work

www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2016/07/trum p- minimum-wage-has-to-go-up.html
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2016-07-29 10:39:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: Artisan (#0)
Donald Trump displays more economic ignorance.
Minimum wage laws are evil.

Question for unknown author...
If federal minimum wage was abolished, would wages increase, remain the same, or decrease?
Question number 2...
With removal of wage law, would the author also abolish the tax code that sets limits of money withheld from wage earners? If so would the author support direct tax increase on employers?

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 10:53:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: Cynicom (#3)
I cant answer for him, but i know that the author is an Austrian economics guy who doesn't support the income tax. He often posts about companies who go belly up when minimum wage increases. Government should have no say in the matter, just like child labor laws.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2016-07-29 10:59:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: Artisan (#0)
He needs to pull in the D votes.

Pinguinite posted on 2016-07-29 11:00:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: Cynicom (#3)
Here are some of his previous posts on it. www.wenzelnotes.com/2016/05/minimum-wage- laws.html 2013/02/the-wrong-way-to-argue-against- minimum.htmlnday, February 17, 2013 The Wrong Way to Argue Against Minimum Wage Laws Don Boudreaux reproduces a letter he sent to a woman who objected to his anti-minimum wage position.
The problem with the letter is that he buys into the notion that empirical studies can somehow prove or disprove logical deductions. He attacks the empirical studies of those who claim minimum wages do not decrease employment by listing other empirical studies that point in a different direction. He does this rather than recognize the fact that you can't conduct empirical studies in the science of economics, in the first place, the way you can in the physical sciences. He is getting sucked into the trap.
The simple fact is that if you force people to pay more for something, they will buy less of it. No empirical tests, required. It's basic logic.
This is a basic supply and demand curve, graphically making the point.

Here's a graph showing the shortages and over-supplies that would occur at prices different from the market price. The market price being where supply and demand are equal. A minimum wage increase above the market price would occur where instead of a market clearing wage of p*, the wage would be above p*. At all minimum wage levels above p*, the quantity of workers hired would fall.

There are no empirical studies that can refute this. It is pure logic. And no empirical studies are needed to prove the argument. They can't.
Anyone using empirical data to try and prove or disprove logic is a quack.
Although it appears he wasn't familiar with the proper (deductive) methodology for the sciences of human action, developed by the Austrian school, Richard Feynman understood at a gut level that the empirical testing being done in the social sciences is hocus pocus.
_____________ 2016/05/one-of-most-dishonest-things- minimum.html One of the Most Dishonest Things Minimum Wage Advocates Say People who make the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour can’t find an affordable place to live anywhere in the country, says a new report from the National Low Income Housing Coalition.
Think about this for a minute.
Does this mean everyone who has a minimum wage job is homeless, since there is no place to rent on a minimum wage?
Obviously, the Coalition report is leaving out some factors, since nearly everyone working at the minimum wage has a place to live.
That is, they are young people living with their parents, they are sharing space with others, etc.
The scare report about the minimum wage and affordable space is dishonest. It implies a situation that is almost totally non- existent. The report takes factors, the minimum wage and rents, and blends them in a manner that real actors in the real world are obviously not, since real minimum wage earners are not in the homeless predicament that the Coalition raises as a great horror.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2016-07-29 11:07:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: Artisan (#4)
Government should have no say in the matter, just like child labor laws.

A pox on that mans house.
As a victim of child labor during the great depression, I can vouch for the need of such laws, if society is going to survive.
It comes down to a basic premise, namely, is there such a concept of, "the milk of human kindness" or is there a need for man made laws to guard society????

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 11:20:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: Artisan (#6)
One has to be careful in the usage and interpretation of such pretty graphs.
Another "renown" Austrian graph artist was von Mises.
He agreed with Ayn Rand when she pontificated that "the masses are mere lice, with barely a right to life"....
Mises and Rand despised those that "worked for pay". Yet, when Rand died, she was on Social Security and medicare, both basic living standards for the lice of humanity.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 11:35:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: Cynicom (#8)
Very good points. I am not a fan of rand and i know that most of the austrian 'heroes' are jewish athiests, very hostile toward Christianity.
I think that one thing we can all agree on though is to abolish the federal reserve, which the genius Fr. Coughlin advocated in the 1920s & 30s.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Artisan posted on 2016-07-29 11:41:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: Artisan (#9)
From Henry Makow...
"The Volker Fund would finance all the leading Austrian Economists and would have a substantial impact on the ‘Chicago School of Economics’, including Milton Friedman.
Von Mises, who throughout his career never held a payed job at any University, was maintained first by David Rockefeller and then for decades received money from the Volker fund and related business men, like Lawrence Fertig. Von Mises’ biographer, Richard M. Ebeling: “Many readers may be surprised to learn the extent to which the Graduate Institute and then Mises himself in the years immediately after he came to United States were kept afloat financially through generous grants from the Rockefeller Foundation. In fact, for the first years of Mises’s life in the United States, before his appointment as a visiting professor in the Graduate School of Business Administration at New York University (NYU) in 1945, he was almost totally dependent on annual research grants from the Rockefeller Foundation.”"

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 11:59:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: All (#0)
Trump: The Minimum Wage Has to Go Up

See, that's just terrible. Horrible liberal Dummacrat stuff!
THANKS FOR NOTHING ON THAT, DONNYBROOK.
_____________________________________________________________
“We build but to tear down. Most of our work and resource is squandered. Our onward march is marked by devastation. Everywhere there is an appalling loss of time, effort and life. A cheerless view, but true.” - Tesla per FP
NeoconsNailed posted on 2016-07-29 12:03:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Cynicom (#3)
If federal minimum wage was abolished, would wages increase, remain the same, or decrease?

I wrote an article about that at my blog.
Years ago one of my friends lived in right-to-work state and got a job that paid two dollars an hour.
"Have Brain, Will Travel
Turtle posted on 2016-07-29 12:08:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Pinguinite (#5)
End of Story. Next

"Define yourself as one beloved by God. This is the true self. Every other identity is illusion."—Brennan Manning

Rotara posted on 2016-07-29 12:14:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Artisan (#6)
I watched closely his Minimum Wage week.
$10 an hour; states would go higher. Create more 50-100 hourly jobs for people to get off minimum wage. Yada yada

"Define yourself as one beloved by God. This is the true self. Every other identity is illusion."—Brennan Manning

Rotara posted on 2016-07-29 12:16:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: Rotara, NeoconsNailed, Artisan (#14)
Being against the Wall and for increasing the minimum wage is for Dummies. Being for the Wall means wages will go up automatically.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Horse posted on 2016-07-29 12:27:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: Horse (#15)
With the monetary inflation already in the pipe, $100/hr won't buy anymore than ten does now.

"Define yourself as one beloved by God. This is the true self. Every other identity is illusion."—Brennan Manning

Rotara posted on 2016-07-29 12:28:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: Horse (#15)
Business pays whatever they have to pay to attract the type/quality workers that they need to conduct their business successfully.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-07-29 12:31:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: Turtle (#12)
I wrote an article about that at my blog.

Having lived thru the Great Depression, I can tell you from experience, employers, those with money, have no concern for those without, be it child or adult.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 12:35:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: Lod (#17)
I wonder if the next world reserve currency will be devalued by 50% or more at the Great Reset.

"Define yourself as one beloved by God. This is the true self. Every other identity is illusion."—Brennan Manning

Rotara posted on 2016-07-29 12:37:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: Lod (#17)
Business pays whatever they have to pay to attract the type/quality workers that they need to conduct their business successfully.

History past and present proves that is untrue.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 12:38:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: Lod (#17)
Henry Ford tried paying his workers a higher wage.
It brought the wrath of industry down on his head. It is all there in the records. Ford was paying over five dollars a day, making a fortune, then he fell on his own sword.
Henry got greedy, paying five dollars a day and turning out a hundred cars a day, he reverted to the standard mentality of all business owners, speed up the assembly line, pay the same wage, turn out a hundred and ten cars a day.
When the workers dared complain and strike, the strikers were shot and killed.
Labor history in this country is not a nice one.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 13:00:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: Cynicom (#21)
I'm talking about today's reality, not that of a century ago. Believe it or not, things have changed for the better. Workers today are paid what their labor is worth.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-07-29 13:11:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: Lod (#22)
I'm talking about today's reality, not that of a century ago.

Really???
Today then.
Locally we have five gas stations, five large international oil companies.
The price of gasoline is exactly the same at all five. They all pay their employees the exact same wage, minimum wage.
We are to believe that if minimum wage were eliminated, there would be a change in gasoline pricing?
If that happened, say a dollar a gallon, would that dollar come from the owner or from the worker????

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-29 13:34:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: Cynicom (#23)
They're being paid what the local market commands; the skills required are lower than a hamburger construction worker. If the workers want higher wages, they should acquire higher skills to make themselves more valuable to an employer, or start a business of their own.
The price of fuel has nothing to do with what the person in a glass box is paid to sell cigarettes, snuff, and lighters. Don't be naive. The price of crap sold could rise, but not the price of fuel.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-07-29 14:10:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: Artisan (#0)
If minimum wage of $7.20, $10, or $15 was a good thing didn't cause unemployment of those not worth minimum wage to employees then it would be even better to make it $100 per hour.

DWornock posted on 2016-07-29 16:53:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: Lod (#24)
The price of fuel has nothing to do with what the person in a glass box is paid to sell cigarettes, snuff, and lighters. Don't be naive. The price of crap sold could rise, but not the price of fuel.

I been accused of being stupid, but naive, never.
No one will answer my question, if the minimum wage law is withdrawn, would wages go up, down or remain the same. Simple question.
There is an example. After WWII, when wage and price controls were withdrawn, wages went down and prices went up.
Industry DEMANDED wage control, when there was no labor to be had. They got it immediately. Been there Lod, human nature is always the same. Sharing the wealth has NEVER been a human characteristic.
Demeaning basic human labor is Ayn Rand thinking and agreement.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-30 9:34:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: Cynicom (#26)
The market determines what labor is worth, not any artificial "minimum wage." There are restaurants here advertising for beginning workers to earn $12/hour; not very "demeaning" as a starting wage for an unskilled worker.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-07-30 10:05:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Lod (#27)
The market determines what labor is worth, not any artificial "minimum wage."

My question remains, abandon the wage law, wages up, down or remain the same?
With surplus menial laborers, you know the answer as well as I do.
The eugenics laws of the past in this country, reveal the thinking of moneyed people, intellectuals, industry, government, academia etc etc.
Forced sterilization of those below a certain IQ level was the law. Who were the people that brought such laws, Rockefellers, Harrimans, the rest of the elite down to the small business man that had a disdain for the working class.
Very dangerous for future of man when a class of people decide who is inferior, who is not and who deserves life.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-30 10:26:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: Cynicom, lod, neoconsnailed (#26) (Edited)
Industry DEMANDED wage control, when there was no labor to be had. They got it immediately. Been there Lod, human nature is always the same. Sharing the wealth has NEVER been a human characteristic.

================================================
Greed is not respecter of persons, and it possesses and tortures both the rich and the poor.
The rich don't want to lose what they have, don't want to spend a penny of it on anyone else, and usually don't want anyone else (e.g, the poor) to get it either. They will spend large fortunes just protecting their money from someone else getting it. They lay awake in bed at night worrying about who is trying to get their money.
The poor don't want to keep what they have, are always complaining of not having anything, and usually want (covet) what everyone else who is not poor (e.g., the rich) has. They will spend most of their waking hours thinking about what they don't have, and what the rich have instead. They lay awake in bed at night worrying about how they can get more money.
Both have a soul, and both have an eternity to spend the consequences of their life's decisions in.
But for right now, this country, and most of the world is in the same, usual, old cultural clash of the classes where another world war, controlled by the rich (and powerful) will yet again be the victors, at the expense of the powerless, and poor.
Hundreds, instead of tens of millions of people will perish in the next one though.
All driven by greed.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
HAPPY2BME-4UM posted on 2016-07-30 10:34:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#29)
The rich don't want to lose what they have, don't want to spend a penny of it on anyone else, and usually don't want anyone else (e.g, the poor) to get it either. They will spend large fortunes just protecting their money from someone else getting it. They lay awake in bed at night worrying about who is trying to get their money.
The poor don't want to keep what they have, are always complaining of not having anything, and usually want (covet) what everyone else who is not poor (e.g., the rich) has. They will spend most of their waking hours thinking about what they don't have, and what the rich have instead. They lay awake in bed at night worrying about how they can get more money.

There is a qualifier to that view.
Which class gets to make ALL THE DECISIONS that affect the lives of everyone????????????
When one class worries about an empty stomach, the other worries about sterilizing the other class, there appears a great disparity.
My empty stomach drives me to want food, nothing else. Tell me what drives the upper class to want to eliminate the lower class, through forced eugenics?
We have a minimum wage for the unfit, perhaps we should have a maximum wage?????

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-30 10:54:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: Cynicom (#30)
Which class gets to make ALL THE DECISIONS that affect the lives of everyone????????????
When one class worries about an empty stomach, the other worries about sterilizing the other class, there appears a great disparity.
My empty stomach drives me to want food, nothing else. Tell me what drives the upper class to want to eliminate the lower class, through forced eugenics?
We have a minimum wage for the unfit, perhaps we should have a maximum wage?????

==========================================================
Reflecting on FACT, a poor man has NEVER been the POTUS.
Proving that, at least in America, poverty is a 100% disqualifier from holding high public office and wealth is a 100% mandatory requirement.
And if an 'average' income person runs for a high public office, they CANNOT WIN without the APPROVAL of the (very) wealthy.
Conclusion: Nothing has changed since Cain killed Abel.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
HAPPY2BME-4UM posted on 2016-07-30 11:09:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#31)
Fact...
The people at the top always get to make the decisions.
When you have time, review the thinking of the people at the top in the days of American eugenics.
From experience. I at the bottom had NO rights, barely a right to life as Rand pontificated.
The thinking of the eugenics movement has never left the American way of thinking. We all tend to look down, hate to look up. Human nature will never change.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-30 11:30:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: Cynicom (#32)
The people at the top always get to make the decisions.

The people at the bottom always get to make their decisions also.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-07-30 11:41:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: Cynicom (#32) (Edited)
I rather agree with you.
I do not know upon whose philosophical shoulders this nation will rise or fall economically. The eddy-cated in these matters will argue amongst themselves until they pop a fuse. We do need to put a lid on the vast, inexhaustible greed of the large politcally active corporations and the banking & financial classes that we richly feed in this country of ours.
In any case, at this point in time and as a practical matter, anything Mr. Trump can do to outflank the "democrats" is just fine with me.
All else will pale in memory come January.
It’s All About The Supreme Court
randge posted on 2016-07-30 11:57:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: Lod (#33)
The people at the bottom always get to make their decisions also.

Any examples of bottom feeders making decisions affecting anyone else?
Example from the bottom...
I cannot drive a car without a license to do so, laws of restriction come from the top down, in the opposite, wealth flows from the bottom up.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-30 12:04:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: randge (#34)
randge...
We are at a watershed in the history of this country.
There is an inevitable financial collapse coming. There is but one way to stave off this world ruin, non nuclear war, massive war, ground war, man to man, millions die.
The only alternative, cancel the national debt and watch the world collapse into chaos.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-30 12:15:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: Cynicom (#36)
cancel the national debt and watch the world collapse into chaos

Do you perhaps mean: "Cancel the national debt OR watch the world collapse into chaos?"
Just trying to parse out your meaning, friend.
It’s All About The Supreme Court
randge posted on 2016-07-30 12:29:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: Cynicom (#35)
No one drives legally without a license.
Wealth flows in both directions, by definition.
Repeat: The people at the bottom always get to make THEIR decisions also.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2016-07-30 12:29:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: randge (#37)
If we cancel the national debt, the financial world will collapse.
My suspicion is the ruling elite will gamble on a massive land war, most likely in Asia, perhaps the Middle East.
We have to be realistic, not idealistic, man has always fought bloody wars, large and small, endlessly. In my lifetime I have known nothing but war, from my childhood days of the 1930s to the present time.
At the present time we see two people on the American scene, with a lust for power, that they will do anything to achieve that goal, that includes world power. I speak of the Clintons. They are loved and abetted by the ruling elite, worldwide, that is scary.
Side note...In the 1940s, Americans would have approved if FDR declared himself President for life. Think about it.
I been around too long to be naive about anything.

Cynicom posted on 2016-07-30 12:56:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: Cynicom, randge (#39)
I been around too long to be naive about anything.

===========================================
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
HAPPY2BME-4UM posted on 2016-07-30 13:16:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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