4um: Free Speech on Freedom4um

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Title: Free Speech on Freedom4um
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URL Source: http://none
Published: Aug 18, 2006
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2006-08-18 12:01:37 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 11436
Comments: 173

It is time for me to address the issue of "free speech" on Freedom4um. My free speech means that I have 100% control over what I say and everyone else has 0% control over what I say. Now, I understand that there are consequences to exercising my right to free speech, but I still retain 100% control.
Free speech means that I have a right to express or spew thoughts and words of preference, love, hate, or anything with which another may disagree. That said, the rules or policies of this forum, which is my private property (see this forum's Mission Statement), are that members can exercise free speech as long as they (1) do not make a specific threat against an identifiable person or target, (2) earnestly debate or discuss the relevant issues that are part and parcel of this forum's reason-to-be. Let me remind you that these are rules for this forum and, as such, do not necessarily apply off of this forum, as public laws should, in most cases, be even less restrictive than private property rules and regulations.
Again, free speech on this forum means that people can express their love or hatred for anyone, any group, any race, any culture, or any thing, as long as they adhere to the two contingencies listed above. Everyone else on this forum is similarly at liberty to exercise their free speech right to challenge, debate, argue, or agree with the ideas and speech of another.
We will not censor speech as we abhor political correctness and authoritarianism as well as those thought-control and speech-control tyrants who would restrict another's speech. Any limitation on thought and speech constitutes the first level of the destruction of all remaining rights. Afterall, the framers of the Constitution believed that free speech was the most fundamental right to be protected which was the reason that they placed it FIRST in the Bill of Rights.
I do not say this lightly, but anyone who cannot handle the content of another's speech may not be suitable for this forum. Such a person may be better suited for a forum whose moderators control and steer the forum's ideas and speech in a given direction.
Many people have no concept of what Free Speech and Freedom really mean. Do you?
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#1. To: christine (#0)
Yes, m'am.

Please Wake Up Before It's Eternally too Late
Lod posted on 2006-08-18 12:08:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: christine (#0)
most fundamental right to be protected which was the reason that they placed it FIRST in the Bill of Rights.

Those bastards...always making life difficult for the rest of us !
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan posted on 2006-08-18 12:10:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: christine (#0)
There goes any chance you had at employment with Homeland Security. :-)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil posted on 2006-08-18 12:14:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: christine (#0)
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Attributed to Voltaire
Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope posted on 2006-08-18 12:15:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: lodwick (#1)
Yes, ma'am.

Looks like SOMEONE got the bitter stevia in HER coffee this morning...
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil posted on 2006-08-18 12:15:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: christine (#0)
i think thats the only way to do it.
lets face it, do you honestly think that any of these people who talk smack on the internet have the balls to come up and try it with a stranger they meet on the street?
of course not. theyre punk asses. they're not even brave enough to be authentic bullies, excepting their immediate families of course, whom i guarantee they treat like crap.
they're small, tiny, little people who want to make themselves feel important by belittling others, and lack any intellectual firepower to make cogent arguments.
a forum is not a place for the psychotherapy they need and misplaced aggression and anger they are possesed by.
you definitely don't need another 'fill in the blank (minds)' forum like the majority of highschool lockerroom types that make up cyberspace.
i would also recommend beating anyone who disobeys with a nail board, then shoving a bucket of live crabs up their ass...
okay, maybe thats a little extreme.
just the one crab.
I went to the park and saw this kid flying a kite. The kid was really excited. I don't know why, that's what they're supposed to do. Now if he had had a chair on the other end of that string, I would have been impressed. -Mitch Hedberg
gengis gandhi posted on 2006-08-18 12:21:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: christine, Zipporah, Goldi-Lox, Jim Robinson, Bill O'Reilly, Abe Foxman (#0)
We (Zipporah and I) will not censor free speech as we abhor political correctness and authoritarianism as well as those thought-control and speech-control tyrants who would restrict another's speech.

Pinging a few people that need to hear it. : )
Thank you for the forum, thou good souls.
"We can make a natural alliance through the ownership of the great industries of the world and through the sharing of their profits." -Lord Charles Beresford, in a 1903 speech to the (Anglo-American-Jewish) Pilgrims Society.
bluegrass posted on 2006-08-18 12:29:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: bluegrass (#7)
Goldi-Lox, Jim Robinson, Bill O'Reilly, Abe Foxman bump.

Please Wake Up Before It's Eternally too Late
Lod posted on 2006-08-18 12:36:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: christine (#0)
Many people have no concept of what Free Speech and Freedom really mean. Do you?

It's rather like we can cuss like troopers out on the city sidewalk, but when we come into your home, out of deference to YOUR property rules, we don't.
Ah..........er..........hmmmmmmmmm.........was dat a bad analogy for me to use?

rowdee posted on 2006-08-18 12:48:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: christine (#0)
I do not associate with people nor do I patronize places where words such as "Kike" "Nigger" "Spic" or other racial or ethnic slurs are tolerated. I wouldn't tolerate such language to be used in my physical presence, nor am I willing to be associated with individuals that use such languare on the internet.

Having said that, Christine, you probably should just go ahead and delete my account.

Soda Pop posted on 2006-08-18 13:02:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: christine (#0)
Good on ya, love!

SKYDRIFTER posted on 2006-08-18 13:03:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Soda Pop, christine (#10)
You can put such posters on the Bozo filter. In fact you can Bozo an entire category of articles. This was a request of someone who found certain entire topics offensive and so the forum created this category Bozo for that reason.
This is all done through the "Setup" menu at the top. Then choose "Content Filters". From Content Filters there are places to fill-in names of posters, and to select the categories you wish to Bozo.
There is no Emily Post working as moderator here. Other forum moderators apply their own ideas of what is offensive. FR and LP are perfect examples of uneven moderating. Vicious personal attacks are allowed for the politically aligned.
What this forum has succesfully kept out are those who intentionally disrupt discussions with pointless ad hominem attacks; the tactic of trolls and obvious paid shills.
Sometimes posters here vent, and sometimes they use offensive language.
It isn't possible to make a forum a good experience for everyone all the time. But this forum has tried to do just that, far more than any other forum that I know of.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers
robin posted on 2006-08-18 13:21:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Soda Pop (#10)
I certainly respect your right to freedom of association/non-association. I also respect your request to have your account deleted. I have done as you asked.
It has been a pleasure having you as a poster on this forum. Thank you for your past contributions. Best to you, Soda Pop.
Sincerely,

christine posted on 2006-08-18 13:23:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Soda Pop (#10) (Edited)
I forgot to say in my previous post to you that if you change your mind, you are welcomed to return.

christine posted on 2006-08-18 13:32:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: robin (#12)
What this forum has succesfully kept out are those who intentionally disrupt discussions with pointless ad hominem attacks; the tactic of trolls and obvious paid shills.

Or bitter retirees.
"We can make a natural alliance through the ownership of the great industries of the world and through the sharing of their profits." -Lord Charles Beresford, in a 1903 speech to the (Anglo-American-Jewish) Pilgrims Society.
bluegrass posted on 2006-08-18 13:42:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: christine (#0)
My free speech means that I have 100% control over what I say and everyone else has 0% control over what I say.

This is license, not a standard.
If “free speech” tolerates lies and hatred and knowingly allows attempts to intentionally mislead the reader, of what positive value is it? That “standard” has no content. Anything goes. As a standard, it’s pure rhetoric.
Does 4um benefit by allowing lies and gossip to be spread across the net? Does society benefit? Does truth matter? Or should the standard be driven by something meaningful? I don’t allow people to come into my home and spit on the floor or defecate on my living room rug. Manners matter.
Does or should free speech include, among other things, expressing an opinion such as this one that may not be popular with the owners?
And feel free to ban me or invite me to leave at any time.

Phaedrus posted on 2006-08-18 13:47:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: Soda Pop, christine, Cynicom, IndieTx (#10)
I patronize places where words such as "Kike" "Nigger" "Spic" or other racial or ethnic slurs are toleratedI do not associate with people nor do I patronize places where words such as "Kike" "Nigger" "Spic" or other racial or ethnic slurs are tolerated. I wouldn't tolerate such language to be used in my physical presence, nor am I willing to be associated with individuals that use such languare on the internet.

Having said that, Christine, you probably should just go ahead and delete my account.
-soda pop

I really don't care what words people use
but delete my account also because the left-wing groupie self-love fest here reminds me too much of Brown Shirts spouting their mutual admiration slogans
or mindless savages monotonously beating the drums of ignorance
the only redeeming feature I found here besides a single nice owner was the music ping list.

Brer' posted on 2006-08-18 13:52:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: Brer' (#17)
Thanks for the levity.

Phaedrus posted on 2006-08-18 13:54:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: robin (#12)
Vicious personal attacks are allowed for the politically aligned.

Same here in SPADES! Like hyenas ....

Brer' posted on 2006-08-18 13:54:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: Phaedrus (#18)
what levity...

Brer' posted on 2006-08-18 13:55:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: Brer' (#17)
"but delete my account also because the left-wing groupie self-love fest here reminds me too much of Brown Shirts spouting their mutual admiration slogans"

What on Earth are you referring to? And by any chance, would you be B'rer Rabbit at LP as well?

Ferret Mike posted on 2006-08-18 13:56:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: Brer' (#20)
nevermind ...

Phaedrus posted on 2006-08-18 13:56:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: Brer' (#19)
Like this?

#32. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#30)
I would vote for him as President
Then you are a confirmed idiot.
Brer' posted on 2006-08-08 17:26:22 ET
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers
robin posted on 2006-08-18 14:00:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: Phaedrus (#16)
If “free speech” tolerates lies and hatred and knowingly allows attempts to intentionally mislead the reader, of what positive value is it? That “standard” has no content. Anything goes. As a standard, it’s pure rhetoric.
Does 4um benefit by allowing lies and gossip to be spread across the net? Does society benefit? Does truth matter?

Indeed, TRUTH matters. That is the very reason for allowing 100% free speech. As soon as you censor speech, how do we know if and when the truth is being censored; and the bigger question is, WHO gets to decide what is truth and what is lie?
The beauty of the internet and of forums that do not censor speech is that everything is allowed to be stated -- the good, the bad, and the ugly; the lies and the truth. But at least it's all there. It is up to each individual to sort out the lies from the truth, objectivity from subjectivity, accuracy from inaccuracy, fact from fiction. That is true freedom.
It is up to the posters to expose the lies by documenting the truth, not by gagging the liar. Expose the liar for what he is. That's the real job of a free press and that should be the goal of the forum posters. For it to be any other way only permits an environment wherein the biases and agenda of the owners, moderators, or complaining posters become the only "truth" that is heard.
This is the very problem we have with the mainstream media. They censor, filter, and omit. How can the truth possibly be revealed with such practices and policies?
I would rather have all the views, opinions, positions, conclusions, etc. on the table, even if 99% are falsities and lies, than have any type of censorship. At least in that environment, I can search for and hopefully find the few nuggets of truth.

Freedom William posted on 2006-08-18 14:05:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: Brer' (#17)
This from the pseudo-scientist who calls George Galloway a terrorist while posting on a forum whose owner refers to Palestinians as PALANIMALS?
For you the word rag head is acceptable, but Zionist swine isn't.
Go guzzle a beaker of Kool-Aid, scumbag.

Jethro Tull posted on 2006-08-18 14:06:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: Brer' (#17)
but delete my account also

I've honored your request. Happy trails, Brer'.

christine posted on 2006-08-18 14:08:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: Brer' (#19)
And when asked to explain yourself you run and hide like a rabbit, like this:

#25. To: Brer' (#24)
I noticed that you've ignored me now twice.. how about explaining your insulting post....
Zipporah posted on 2006-08-03 23:15:42 ET
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers
robin posted on 2006-08-18 14:08:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Brer' (#20)
"muslim reprobates, and that's all of them if they think they are in charge, are so disgustingly predictable.
Savages...
no, I stick with the definition....islam is a spreading aggressive cancer"

That is what BrerRabbit says about Lebanese Villagers. I would imagine if you are him, the views concerning Islamic and Jewish people not being quite the same as yours' would be why the strange and vague opus here.
So, are you him? I am curious.

Ferret Mike posted on 2006-08-18 14:09:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: Brer' (#19)
You have proven yourself to be nothing more than a disruptive troll on more than one thread. And not a very good one either.

#12. To: mehitable (#10)
I think
You've shown yourself incapable of thought.
Brer' posted on 2006-03-15 0:12:59 ET
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers
robin posted on 2006-08-18 14:11:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: Ferret Mike (#28)
He's one in the same, Mike.

Jethro Tull posted on 2006-08-18 14:13:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: christine (#26)
"I've honored your request. Happy trails, Brer'."

Heh, he is, isn't he? ;-D
I knew it. The hubris and ego gave it away anyhow, I was just hoping to see the gasoline vapor that is this guy do another flash explosion again. Nutz, I never get to have any fun anymore (/teasing}

Ferret Mike posted on 2006-08-18 14:13:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: Phaedrus (#16)
Does 4um benefit by allowing lies and gossip to be spread across the net? Does society benefit? Does truth matter? Or should the standard be driven by something meaningful? I don’t allow people to come into my home and spit on the floor or defecate on my living room rug. Manners matter.

But O'Reilly and Rush are models of mainstream media manners?
And speaking of lies and gossip, do you ever read or listen to MSM?
Oh, I forgot Ann Coulter, I just remembered how much you admire her.
So much for your standards.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers
robin posted on 2006-08-18 14:15:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: Jethro Tull (#30)
"He's one in the same, Mike."

The boy, the political eunuch extraordinare, the legend in a very small and narrow mind, how will we live without it?
sniff...sniff...sniff...

Ferret Mike posted on 2006-08-18 14:16:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: Freedom William (#24)
I would rather have all the views, opinions, positions, conclusions, etc. on the table, even if 99% are falsities and lies, than have any type of censorship. At least in that environment, I can search for and hopefully find the few nuggets of truth.

Well, we obviously disagree. I have no wish to wade through a sea of lies and bad manners to find a few nuggets of truth when it would be so easy to be rid of known, repeat-offender liars and those who indulge in personal attacks as argument. Of what value whatever is there in such tolerance?

Here’s Fred on anti-Semitism in his most recent column:

A reasonable person might believe, for example, that Jews exert too much influence over American foreign policy and various domestic policies, but also grant without demur that Jews had contributed much to the economy, the sciences, and the arts. The details could be debated, but the position is not that of a Hater. The Hater in anti-Semitic form cannot go for ten minutes in private conversation without adverting with hostility to various crimes and conspiracies which he attributes to Jews, and can never concede that Jews every, however inadvertently, have done anything good. He is obsessive about it.

Julius Streicher, Catharine MacKinnon, Jesse Jackson, And David Duke
The point being of what positive value whatever are lies and hate? The caveat is, of course, that lies and hate cannot always be identified because they often shroud themselves in supposed fact. But so what? If in doubt, tolerate. If not, ban. It takes judgement and maturity, and if a few "mistakes" are made, so what? We deal in words only here, not actions.

Phaedrus posted on 2006-08-18 14:23:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: robin (#32)
So much for your standards.

You don't really want a response, do you?

Phaedrus posted on 2006-08-18 14:24:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: Phaedrus (#35)
How curious this thread is. While other forums utilize the dreaded purge, 4 achieves self exile by simply asserting that a constitutional right remains intact. My how far some would have us fall.

Jethro Tull posted on 2006-08-18 14:26:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: robin (#29)
I know how Brother Bunnie thinks, and no doubt he saw an opportunity with Soda Pop's opus post to try to precipitate an flurry of similar opus posts. He has long been a suck up to Goldi and any harm he could do here he would love and consider it a feather in the traffic cone he wears on his pointy head as a cap.
Unfortunately for him, he is a Nerf ball that can never have that sort of effect in creating an avalanche. ;-D

Ferret Mike posted on 2006-08-18 14:26:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: Jethro Tull (#36)
My how far some would have us fall.

I would disagree as to direction but I don't have much to add to what I said above.

Phaedrus posted on 2006-08-18 14:27:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: Phaedrus (#35)
Please do.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers
robin posted on 2006-08-18 14:28:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: robin (#27)
"I noticed that you've ignored me now twice.. how about explaining your insulting post...."

He lives to promote conservative force in the upper levels of those who run and teach in colleges and universities. He is well educated, and has zero common sense or empathy with anyone not quite what he considers a peer.
Unfortunately for him, his education and job does not prevent him from having zero common sense or social ability. Hope this explains the little bro Bunnie for you better.

Ferret Mike posted on 2006-08-18 14:31:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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