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Title: What Hit the Pentagon?
Source: 911review
URL Source: http://www.911review.com/attack/pentagon/hypothesis.html
Published: Sep 9, 2006
Author: 911 Review
Post Date: 2006-09-09 07:05:37 by Kamala
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: 911
Views: 23353
Comments: 172

What Hit the Pentagon?

Where the Pentagon was struck on 9/11/01 is indisputable and is strong circumstantial evidence that the attack was an inside job.

However, what hit it has remained controversial in some circles, given the refusal of authorities to produce definitive evidence to support the official story that American Airlines Flight 77 was the attack plane. With security camera video from nearby businesses having been seized minutes after the attack, and only five selected video frames released by the military, we are left with seemingly contradictory physical and eyewitness evidence.

Many eyewitnesses accounts describe a 757-like jetliner approach and collide with the Pentagon.

Photographs of the impact damage seem difficult to reconcile with the collision of a 757, since they show neither the imprint of such a plane on the facade nor large recognizable pieces of aircraft. These apparent contradictions stem partly from misconceptions about the physics of plane crashes. The contradictions vanish when one considers possible manipulations of a 757 crash, such as the destruction of portions of the plane just before impact. However, theories that nothing like a 757 crashed into the Pentagon have been so effectively popularized that mainstream media attacks on 9/11 skeptics frequently identify them as disputing only one aspect of the official story: that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

The Missile and/or Global Hawk Theories Based on interpretations of the physical evidence -- in many cases based on fallacies -- several researchers have proposed theories that the damage to the Pentagon was caused by a missile, and/or a small lightweight remote-controlled plane, such as a Global Hawk. Variants of this theory became popular among skeptics of the official Flight 77 crash story in early 2002, despite their disregard for the eyewitness evidence that the plane seen approaching the Pentagon was a large twin-engine jetliner.

Much of the support for the missile and/or Global Hawk theories is drawn from the five frames of Pentagon video, despite their suspect source and signs of forgery.

The Two-Plane Theory

A second theory, also advanced in 2002, was researcher Dick Eastman's small plane theory (or two-plane theory). It holds that a Boeing 757 did indeed swoop down toward the west block of the Pentagon, but disappeared into a blinding pyrotechnic display, making it appear that it had crashed into the building, while in fact it had cleared the facade, overflown the Pentagon, and then banked sharply to land at Reagan National Airport, whose runways are only about two miles away from the Pentagon. As the jetliner was disappearing into the fireball, a small attack jet, such as an F-16, approached from a different trajectory and crashed into the wall, producing, in combination with a missile, the damage to the facade and interior.

This theory has the advantage over other no-757-crash theories that it is consistent with the many credible eyewitness reports of a jetliner. However, it neither explains the eyewitness statements that the plane collided with the building, nor the lack of a single eyewitness statement supporting the idea that a 757 overflew the Pentagon and then landed at the nearby National airport. Also, the theory raises questions about the fate of the passengers of Flight 77.

The 757 overflight theory is perhaps the weakest part of the two-plane theory. The Pentagon is surrounded by highways, and by densely populated areas such as Pentagon City to the south. Wouldn't a 757 overflying the Pentagon in a direction perpendicular to normal air traffic have been witnessed and reported by numerous individuals?

The Engineered Crash Theory

According to the above theories, no 757 crashed at the Pentagon on 9/11/01, despite the abundance of eyewitness reports of a large jetliner crashing. Some of these theories suggest that events were engineered to fool people into believing that Flight 77 had crashed. Some include elaborate stage-magic tricks, such as a drone painted like an American Airlines plane, and the use of motors and cables to pull down lamp poles.

Many no-757-crash theorists want us to believe that the attack was engineered to trick eyewitnesses into thinking a much smaller attack plane was a jetliner. But we can equally imagine that the attack was engineered to make the site of a 757 crash look to many observers like that of something else.

Eric Bart

French researcher Eric Bart proposed that the airliner was shredded by shape charges both before and after it entered the building. His theory accounts for the eyewitness near-consensus in favor of a 757-type jetliner crashing, for details in eyewitness statements not consistent with a simple crash, and for the pattern of damage to the Pentagon not explained by other theories.

e x c e r p t

title: Shaped charges

authors: Eric Bart

source

The shaped charges were ignited before the nose touched the wall. That's why some witnesses reported signs of an early impact, before the plane touched the wall :

"It seemed like it made impact just before the wedge" Joe Harrington

"I heard a sonic boom and then the impact" Joel Sucherman Other witnesses understood that the plane hit the ground before the wall :

"It didn't appear to crash into the building, most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward " Donald "Tim" Timmerman

"The fuselage hit the ground and blew up" Mary Ann Owens

"The nose of the plane curled upwards and crumpled before exploding into a massive fireball" Vin Narayan

But there was no mark of the plane on the ground. Other witnesses reported an impact on the building :

"The large aircraft struck the outermost corridor (E-ring) of the five-ring building at ground level (the second floor)"

Aviationnow

"The aircraft went in between the second and third floors." Lincoln Leibner Why did some witnesses thought [sic] that the plane hit the ground before the wall ? I see two reasons. First, the explosion of the charges created white flashes around the fuselage that seemed an early contact with the ground. Second, shaped charges in a plane have a recoil effect like powder in guns.

Their explosions should have push [sic] back the fuselage and slow it down, giving the impression that it hit something. It could also make the wings detached [sic] and fly forward because, unlike the fuselage, they were not slowed down, "I saw the wings fly forward".

The Penny Elgas statement : "At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring."

The analysis of this report is complex. However I'll try here.

First I believe Penny Elgas. Under adrenaline things go definetly slower. The report she gave is so unexpected that I don't think she made it up. It's just a pure factual report.

The interpretation she gave is false. : "the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete". The smoke moves are too perfect.

My speculation : The "churning smoke" is the white flash of inside charges. Penny Elgas saw the white flashes of these charges exploding in two overlapped and opposite helices.

There was not a single large shaped charge in the plane. I did not see any large shaped charge on the web. The best anti-bunker weapon (BLU-113) is only 1.2 foot large (diameter). Instead, there were many shaped charges (one feet diameter) inside the plane. Roughly, a one foot diameter will make a one foot hole. These charges were arranged in circle inside the fuselage and along the fuselage. Thus it was possible to make a large hit on the wall with small shaped charges. These charges were not fired all at the same time (probably to be more silent or for having a "hammering" effect on concrete). So what is the best sequence for igniting all theses charges ?

Maybe things are simpler then I first thought. All the plane (fuselage and wings) is laid on a rigid structure. This means that the bottom of the fuselage is strong and the top is fragile. So, when a charge explode near the bottom of the fuselage, it destroys the stiffness of it.

I think that the charges where put in two overlapped and opposite helices (clockwise and counter clockwise). The explosion started at the top front of the fuselage, continued downward and backward on each side, joined at the bottom and continued upward and backward, and so on ..., as Penny saw.

When explosions occure at the bottom, the plane fuselage stiffness is damaged. Thus, next charges to explode are less strongly tied to the fuselage. The further they are from the bottom, the more difficult it is to tie them strongly to the fuselage. Thus, next charges have to be attached close to the bottom. That's why I think it continued upward (and backward) on each side of the fuselage, because next charges can't be mechanically attached far form the bottom.

"Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring." The glowing fire is the fireball itself that comes after the white flash.

site: eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/ page: eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/inv2.html

Bart theorizes only about the use of shaped charges in the destruction of the plane. However, it is possible to imagine other types of weapons may have produced a similar result. If these weapons were ground-based rather than installed in the plane, it would be easier to imagine that the event involved Flight 77, since the perpetrators would not have required physical access to the plane to prepare the attack.

The Remote-Controlled 757 Theory The simplest theory that answers questions about the piloting skill required by the approach maneuver and the location of the strike is the remote-controlled 757 theory, in which an American Airlines 757, perhaps Flight 77, is flown by remote control into the Pentagon. The engineered crash theory is a subset of the remote-controlled 757 theory.

Its added element of explosives or other weapons destroying portions of the aircraft prior to impact helps to reconcile the crash of a 757 with the crash impact damage shown in photographs, but this element is consistently targeted by critics defending no-757-crash theories. Researcher Mark Robinowitz, webmaster of oilempire.us, has suggested that speculation about crash engineering, like that about exactly what hit the Pentagon, has served as a distraction from the provable fact of where the building was hit and its implications. On The Pentagon attack: How the 'no plane' theories are used to discredit 9/11 skepticism and distract from proven evidence of complicity he provides evidence that the the no-757-crash theories may be rooted in a false-flag psy-op to discredit skepticism of the official story.

page last modified: 2006-08-18

Copyright 2004 - http://2006,911Review.com / revision 1.023;site last modified: 9/4/06

Dick Eastman showed that the one piece of debris on the Pentagon lawn large enough to stand up fit the forward right side of an American Airlines' 757-200. The relative isolation of this piece, and it's position relative to the plane's path, suggests that it may have been moved. There are a number of possible reasons that it could have been moved. Subscribe to *9-11*

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#85. To: Cynicom (#80)

Where do you arrive at this figure?

There are numerous accounts available on the net.

And I've seen the figures you cite. But the "official" flight manifest only lists 54 people. And there seems to be one who was bumped from another flight and put on 77 at the last moment. So that would make 55 on the passenger list. A heck of a difference.

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-09   23:08:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: RickyJ (#82)

. Do you have no understanding of what a jet engine at full throttle only 6 feet away would do to a human being? By your responses it appears you do not.

What I do or do not know is not germaine here. We are discussing how the bodies were recovered at Pentagon if the AA aircraft never arrived.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:10:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: RickyJ (#74)

... He recalls the engine passing on one side of him, about six feet away. and If you believe this story then I have bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I wasn't going to get into the fray on this one, because I could not believe that anyone in their right mind, with sufficient gray matter and common sense, would want to waste their time on such nonsense.

Therefore, the amount of activity being devoted to such trivial absurdity begs the question, "Has the 47m been infiltrated by those from LP or FR who want to get something going just for the fun of it?"

On the other hand, those who tend to put weight into this theory have to believe what the "newspaper" people have reported they witnessed. Please, what don't you understand about the media in this country?

Wake up and don't waste time trying to turn bullshit into more bullshit.

Phant2000  posted on  2006-09-09   23:11:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Cynicom (#83)

Plants??? Surely you do not believe that everyone connected with this event is a plant???

If you check the credentials of some of the witnesses you will find they are newpaper people with USA Today. They have hardly b een Bush supporters, yet their testimony is the same as the rest.

No way to tell for sure, but the differing stories is astounding. Give me 50 people looking at the same thing and you will get several differing accounts, maybe more than several. And the old college test does not mean much since they all knew what they were there for. For that matter, so probably were many of the "witnesses" aware of why they were there at the Pentagon. ;0)

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-09   23:12:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: BTP Holdings (#85)

And I've seen the figures you cite.

The basic premise is this, how did the victims arrive at the Pentagon if not via AA 77, where is the aircraft that departed Dulles and where did the authorities obtain 64 or whatever number of replacement bodies???

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:13:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Cynicom (#83)

USA Today. They have hardly been Bush supporters

I think you're old enough to know better...this is Israel's war, Bush, with the help of Diebold, would be The One.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-09-09   23:13:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Cynicom (#86)

We are discussing how the bodies were recovered at Pentagon if the AA aircraft never arrived.

Cyner,

How do you arrive at the conclusion that any passengers were FACTUALLY removed from the Pentagon? There is no suggestion that any sign of bodies was found. The one fire chief admitted that there were only scattered (small) parts of an aircraft in the building. By his description, nothing that couldn't have been easily planted.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2006-09-09   23:15:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: BTP Holdings (#88)

No way to tell for sure, but the differing stories is astounding.

Agreed...

Twenty five testified they saw the aircraft airborne and saw the AA markings.

Forty five saw it airborne but could not identify carrier.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:15:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: SKYDRIFTER (#91)

How do you arrive at the conclusion that any passengers were FACTUALLY removed from the Pentagon?

And how does anyone arrive at the fact that they were NOT taken from the site?

If not the passengers, then where are the passengers and the aircraft????

Ted Olson is not a dummy, and he has raised no doubts.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:18:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Cynicom, RickyJ (#86) (Edited)

What I do or do not know is not germaine here.

But you posted the schtick from the military mag.

I agree with RickyJ. If that guy was 6 feet from a 757 engine at full throttle and at near full speed, he would be hamburger.

Most people have no idea of these things. That is why the propagandists and spin artists succeed to a great extent.

It works the same way with explosives. I knew a guy in UDT and he knew about explosives. Once there was a bomb scare at a suburban Chicago school and the cops said the so-called bomb would have levelled the building. He knew that was bogus by the way it was described as being 3 sticks of dynamite. It was only enough to blow out the walls in the area near where it was found.

But the average Joe Schmoe on the street would not know any better. Same as with the military mag story. It don't cut the mustard.

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-09   23:21:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: SKYDRIFTER (#91)

nothing that couldn't have been easily planted.

Planted material would not have residue of burnt jet fuel.

You told someone there was no indication of such fuel. That is totally false and if you have aviation experience you know it.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:22:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: BTP Holdings (#94)

engine at full throttle and at near full speed, he would be hamburger.

Not true...Men have been sucked into jet engines and lived. You can find such on the net if you have never had prior reading.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:24:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Cynicom (#93)

Ted Olson is not a dummy, and he has raised no doubts.

Olson is an ardent Zionist.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-09-09   23:24:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Eoghan (#97)

Olson is an ardent Zionist.

And his wife is still dead. She is not being held in secret somewhere.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Cynicom (#96)

Men have been sucked into jet engines and lived

And what does that have to do with the price of matzoh balls?

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-09   23:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: BTP Holdings (#99)

engine at full throttle and at near full speed, he would be hamburger.

You post that????

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:28:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Cynicom (#100)

You post that????

You a wise guy?

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-09   23:30:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Cynicom (#98)

And his wife is still dead. She is not being held in secret somewhere.

She probably dead, but the stories of her phones calls are doubtful when Ted tells the story.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-09-09   23:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: BTP Holdings (#101)

I agree with RickyJ. If that guy was 6 feet from a 757 engine at full throttle and at near full speed, he would be hamburger.

I think that is you.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:33:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Eoghan (#102)

She probably dead, but the stories of her phones calls are doubtful

Dead?? Okay, where is the aircraft? Tough to hide such a large aircraft.

Just forget the bodies.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:34:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: SKYDRIFTER (#78)

There is no suggestion of the rescue workers going in after survivors or remains. There is every evidence (judging by the firemans' garb) that there was no hydrocarbon fire associated with the Pentagon, versus a torched diesel fuel tank (on the wrong side of the generator) in the construction yard.

This is a big one for me. I know what open air Hydrocarbons fires look like and do. It was strange to me the first ten seconds when I saw the video of the Pentagon, but I was ready to believe it all at that point.

You put tons of HC in the atmosphere and ignite it, there is going to be a real big carbon black mess.

I know this because I have seen it. I have fought fires in a major refinery,where a pressure vessel ruptures(Conoco Lake Charles Complex) and this is exactly the situation of a supposed jetliner splitting up on impact.

The Pentagon should have been black from head to tail if so many gallons of avation fuel was burned at atmosphere. Should have been carbon black three inches thick all around the place.

And what about the engines, that decided to misobey the laws of momentum and dissapear into the too small hole.

This sucks

tom007  posted on  2006-09-09   23:39:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Cynicom (#96)

Not true...Men have been sucked into jet engines and lived.

OK, where is your link? Come on, I and many others here would like to see this one.

God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]

RickyJ  posted on  2006-09-09   23:42:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Cynicom (#104)

Okay, where is the aircraft?

Wish I knew...like Atta's dad said, "I don't know, ask Mossad." Your defense is running into thin air.

Just forget the bodies.

If you want to hide bodies, do it on a day a national terror drill is being run...then watch the Masters chuckle at the Federales' incompetents.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-09-09   23:44:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: RickyJ (#106)

OK, where is your link? Come on, I and many others here would like to see this one.

Ricky, I do not have to link everything I have ever seen, or read. If you really want to check it, I bet if you google you will find such.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:44:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Eoghan (#107)

Wish I knew

Perhaps others here can tell us where the rather large 757 is?????

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:45:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Cynicom (#108)

Ricky, I do not have to link everything I have ever seen, or read. If you really want to check it, I bet if you google you will find such.

Oh, I see.

God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]

RickyJ  posted on  2006-09-09   23:45:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: RickyJ (#110)

Oh, I see.

Tell you what, as a friend I will look for you.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:47:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: RickyJ (#110)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_gpPbpONK4

Rickey...Here is video you can watch of a man being sucked into a jet engine and he lived. I found twenty such references.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_gpPbpONK4

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:50:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Cynicom (#109) (Edited)

There were confusing reports of a crash at Camp David, a landing at Cleveland International, a fifth "hijacked" plane that never re-emerged...Me? I'd ditch the craft into the ocean for best results.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-09-09   23:51:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Eoghan (#113)

There were confusing reports of a crash at Camp David, a

I have no answers, leave that to the experts here. I am just one that asks questions of doubters.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: RickyJ (#110)

Oh, I see.

Ricky...did you watch the video???

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-09   23:54:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: Cynicom (#115)

Ricky...did you watch the video???

Yep, it was amazing, thanks for the link.

God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]

RickyJ  posted on  2006-09-10   0:08:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Cynicom (#115)

Now watch this one and get an idea what would have happened to the guy 6 feet away from a jet engine at full throttle. The video you showed, while amazing, was not anywhere close to full throttle.

God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]

RickyJ  posted on  2006-09-10   0:13:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: RickyJ (#116)

Yep, it was amazing, thanks for the link

There have been several instances of such. Not all turn out well of course.

I started in the aviation industy in 1950, military, Federal, Martin Aircraft, jack of all trades. Saw a lot, expert at nothing but I do ask questions.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-10   0:13:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: All (#118)

anywhere close to full throttle.

Big difference as to whether you are fore of aft of the engine, big difference.

In one you sent, there is no blast fence which is unusal.

Stand in front of a fan, then in rear, do you feel the most air passing in front or in the rear????

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-10   0:17:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Cynicom, RickyJ (#103)

I agree with RickyJ. If that guy was 6 feet from a 757 engine at full throttle and at near full speed, he would be hamburger.

I think that is you.

And I think you have no conception of the vortex created by a jumbo jet flying at a reported speed of 500+ mph.

Just as a small example of the air currents of a passing object, I can tell you of something I witnessed in my days working on the highways.

We were working in the right lane of a 55 mph zone and the foreman was standing on the lane line with his back to the traffic lane on a four lane divided highway.

A tractor trailer came over the hill and was bearing down on us and the foreman stood in the same place. As the truck passed him he was nearly sucked under the tralier by the wind vortex created by the truck. He had to fight with all his strength to stay on his feet.

And that is only a close call since I know of stories where people have been sucked under trucks passing them on the highway, including state troopers.

With a jet travelling at the speeds suggested, it is easy to spot the BS in that story in the military mag.

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-10   0:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: RickyJ (#117)

anywhere close to full throttle.

Ricky

anywhere close to full throttle.

Big difference as to whether you are fore of aft of the engine, big difference.

In one you sent, there is no blast fence which is unusal.

Stand in front of a fan, then in rear, do you feel the most air passing in front or in the rear????

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-10   0:21:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: BTP Holdings (#120)

it is easy to spot the BS in that story in the military mag.

There are many other references to the same event. Myself, I saw no BS.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-10   0:24:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: RickyJ (#117)

Talk about going for a ride. LOL

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-10   0:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: BTP Holdings (#123)

alk about going for a ride. LOL

Ever see a jet seaplane???

Cynicom  posted on  2006-09-10   0:27:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: Cynicom (#122)

Myself, I saw no BS.

Want to try your luck standing on the lane line with 75 mph traffic whizzing by? ;0)

"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-09-10   0:29:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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