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Title: Depleted U - An impromptu interview w/ a Career Tank Specialist
Source: me
URL Source: http://none.com
Published: Apr 27, 2005
Author: Tom007
Post Date: 2005-04-27 22:07:28 by tom007
Keywords: Specialist, impromptu, interview
Views: 2370
Comments: 488

Had an intesting conversation with a man I have known for about 5 months. He delivers to my store, handles alot of cash and is a "straight up" kind of guy. I like him, and I am sure his employer does as well. A steady Eddie man, the kind that makes the country run.

We somehow got talking about the ME, and he mentioned he had been to Egypt, and really did not care for any of it. I asked him how it was that he found himself in the ME and he said he was in the service of the military.

Naturally I wanted to know in what type of service he was in. Well, he was drafted into 'Nam, and did twentyfour years, and tanks were his thing. He started out in a tank designation I did not know of. I know a little about M1A1' and wanted to know some things about them, and the man was very evidently the real deal, no swagger, no he man stories etc. He is who he claims.

After some talk of tactics, guns, how to disable an M1A1, exploding armor, all of which he had the knolwedge of a solider who had spent many years with this type of equipment. He was pretty high up in the system.

Then I asked him about DU. Well turns out he was one of the men on the ground testing it at Aburdeen Proving grounds, shooting various things, like mounds of earth, then digging into it to estimate the ballistics, etc.

Did this many time, and my friend related that one time a DU projectile fragmented into the mound of earth. They were to go dig all the pieces of the remenents out. As he tells me, there was a hole that one of the fragments had made, and as they were poking around, a field mouse was scared up and scampered into that hole made by a fragment.

He just sat back and waited for it to come out-; it didn't. After a few minutes, he saw that it was dead.

He went and got the General of the testing operation, and showed him what he had discovered. The General and his men looked at the situation and told all the testers to go away. For three weeks the site was closed, except to the investigators.

Three weeks later, the investigation was complete. The report said the mouse died of "starvation". My friend looked at me, eye to eye, and laughed. "That mouse damn sure didn't die of starvation", he said emphatically.

He said when the DU rounds hit a tank, he could "see a mushroom cloud", formed (Note, alot of high intensity heat will form a mushroom cloud event).

He said "if you take a giger counter into one of the tanks with DU munitions it will beep like crazy". He said that the explosiom of a DU round into steel was" basically a miniature explosion of a nuclear bomb".

He said they would put goats in the test tanks, and around them. He stated that " for twentyfive meters around the tank, hit by a DU round, all the goats would be dead, ten meters, mangled, turned inside out".

He believed DU dust to be alot more dangerous than the military was allowing.

This man is much more creadible, to me, much more, than the talking hairdoo's reading spin points from the Pentagon.

Draw your own conclusions, this is what I heard today, from a man with incontrovertable creadibility with me. He was there.

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#208. To: Aric2000 (#203)

DU is not readily taken in by the body, it will pass out of the body if breathed, in swallowed etc, with little if ANY ill effects ...

I don't beleive this. Are you suggesting that people have ingested measured amounts of DU and the levels in the body have been measured?

If you're talking about some quicky studies using approximated data, the results arn't necssarily accurate. We had a client who pumped out these studies for the bio work in San Antonio. The results provide data to publications like Janes to support the status quo, but they don't constitute serious research.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   20:45:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: crack monkey (#208)

OK, so, are you worried about lead then as well?

Does this mean that you also support the military taking lead out of their bullets as well?

If not, because it would be stupid, then your freaking out about DU is just as stupid.

We have had DU for over 50 years, experimented with it, worked with it, etc.

MANY experiments have been done on it.

It is DENSER then lead, therefore it is BETTER for the military.

I will repeat it again, and again, and again, DU is SAFER then lead, because it is NOT readily absorbed into the body as lead is.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-28   21:15:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: Aric2000 (#199)

DU is a heavy metal, of course there is a danger, but the danger is less then lead.

If you are going to freak out about DU, then you had better freak out about lead as well.

I haven't seen any studies showing our troops heavily contaminated with lead while there is ample evidence that they are loaded up with internal DU contamination at levels far beyond what the "studies" projected was possible.

Nevertheless, I'm much less worried about DU than I am another substance that we are now commonly using - namely NON-Depleted Uranium in the bunker buster bombs.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-28   21:20:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: crack monkey (#207)

But how do you know this? It's only been used since the 1970s. It sometimes takes that long for the effects to manefest. Not that many people have been exposed so there is not a good sample to study. Detailed studies of the problem have just started in the past few years. This is no time at all for a problem such as this. How long did it take to determine that cigarettes were dangerous?

And the places where we've used it heavily are still heavily laden with political baggage that prevents meaningful study of the effect on the local populations.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-28   21:25:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: Aric2000 (#209)

    Does this mean that you also support the military taking lead out of their bullets as well?

    If not, because it would be stupid, then your freaking out about DU is just as stupid.

Hey, assface.. Just because Lead is dangerous doesn't mean Du isn't or that our servicemen don't require protection from either.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: Aric2000 (#209)

My gosh you're a fucking moron..

Which would you prefer I burn you to death with? Gasoline or alcohol?

Both are flammable, but the BUT's differ.

God you're a dope.. Please go crawl back between your mothers legs and spare us the rest of your "arguement"

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:28:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: Aric2000 (#209)

I will repeat it again, and again, and again, DU is SAFER then lead, because it is NOT readily absorbed into the body as lead is.

That's very interesting. I'm sure the health physics techs at the plant will be very interested in your super scientific expose - considering that they are still wearing lead aprons to shield them from the effects of uranium. Doh!

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-28   21:29:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: Jhoffa_ (#213)

Which would you prefer I burn you to death with? Gasoline or alcohol?

Next he'll be telling us that DU is safe because bullet primers have mercury in them and it is bad for you.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-28   21:32:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#211)

And the places where we've used it heavily are still heavily laden with political baggage that prevents meaningful study of the effect on the local populations.

Also, as I said above, it was originally used as a long range tank killer round. As you probably know, it's a long needle looking thing inside a sabot that falls off after leaving the barrel. The sabot increases the diameter so that it fits in the gun barrel. After leaving the barrel, the very heavy needle travels better through the air. Hence longer range and more punch for killing tanks.

I don't see why we even need it in Iraq. We're not having long range tank battles with heavy Russian tanks there. I would feel different if there was some critical need for the round - but this doesn't seem to be the case.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   21:32:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#215)

It's statistically safer to shoot yourself in the face with a a .22 than a shotgun slug.

Therefore, it is safe to shoot yourself in the face with a .22

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:34:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: Jhoffa_ (#217)

It's statistically safer to shoot yourself in the face with a a .22 than a shotgun slug.

Therefore, it is safe to shoot yourself in the face with a .22

Are you becoming a bot? You're starting to sound like Kyle.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   21:36:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: crack monkey (#218)

But, I thought it was a good arguement.. ?

I'm higher than shit on cold medicine.. Maybe that's why?

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:37:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: Aric2000 (#197)

Workers that work with lead, that is cut, sanded, smoothed etc, use the SAME protective garments. Lead dust ingestion is MORE dangerous then DU, because Lead is taken readily by the body and will damage the brain, nervous system etc, compared to lead, DU, which is NOT readily taken in by the body, is safer to work with, MUCH safer....

And how and why do you know so much about lead? Thanks in advance.

tom007  posted on  2005-04-28   21:38:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: Aric2000, Kyle (#209)

We have had DU for over 50 years, experimented with it, worked with it, etc.

Yet you and/or Kyle bitch that an anti-DU group might be biased? You funny goon, make me laugh :)

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-28   21:38:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#222. To: Jhoffa_ (#219)

I'm higher than shit on cold medicine.. Maybe that's why?

It is possible to reach a version of bot consciousness by selectively shutting down certain brain functions with drugs. This is probably what you are experiencing.

True bot consciousness however requires an active effort to mislead those around you. Simply shutting down brain functions doesn't produce the requisite dishonesty needed for true bot consciousness.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   21:41:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: Aric2000 (#199)

I would MUCH rather be shooting DU out of the barrel of a gun then lead, the powder and residue of lead is MUCH more dangerous when breathed in or touched then DU will EVER be.

Hummm. Quite a bold statement. You must know alot about lead. And DU. I qould guess you work in the field, or wrote a dissertaion on these arcane subjects?

Quite impressive.

"Lead is MUCH more dangerous when...."

tom007  posted on  2005-04-28   21:41:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#224. To: Dakmar (#221)

We have had DU for over 50 years, experimented with it, worked with it, etc.

robin  posted on  2005-04-28   21:42:21 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#225. To: Jhoffa_ (#217)

Therefore, it is safe to shoot yourself in the face with a .22

I'll have to try that some time, thanks....

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-28   21:42:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: crack monkey (#222)

    True bot consciousness however requires an active effort to mislead those around you. Simply shutting down brain functions doesn't produce the requisite dishonesty needed for true bot consciousness.

Okay, okay.. how's this?

"Atomized DU is wonderful, because Lead is bad.. "

Catchy, eh?

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:43:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#227. To: robin (#224)

That's creepy, what's the deal?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-28   21:43:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: Dakmar (#225)

    I'll have to try that some time, thanks....

Your humble servant..

:)

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:44:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#229. To: Dakmar (#227)

http://kungfugrip.adventureteam.com/radiation_detection.jpg

That's all Kyle and Aric know about DU, from kids toys. And, it never harmed them.

robin  posted on  2005-04-28   21:45:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#230. To: Dakmar (#227)

I think it's the new "Pit Bull, Gannon" action Figure.. With optional, articulated, jackoff action..

(Some assembly required, offer not valid in all states.. Check your local listings. No step!)

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#231. To: Aric2000 (#209)

OK, so, are you worried about lead then as well?

We have had DU for over 50 years, experimented with it, worked with it, etc.

No, lead has been around in bullets for hundreds of years. Hundreds of thousands of people have been exposed in every way shape and form. The effects are well understood.

DU has been around in useable quantities for about thirty years and only used on a few rare occasions, e.g., the Gulf war, a few exercises, and our current situation. The sample size is tiny and the time for study is non-existent.

Furthermore, it's a type of round that really isn't needed in Iraq. We're fighting insurgents similar to the Viet Cong. They don't have armor. Hence, the troops are being endangered for an armor piercing round that isn't even needed.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   21:48:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#232. To: robin (#229)

I see, since you can't fight me with evidence, you will try to discredit me with BULLSHIT....

Quite amusing, to say the least.

You guys are CLUELESS about DU and it shows, BIG time.

Bunch of paranoid KOOKS.

DU has Uranium as part of it's name, it MUST be dangerous...

ROFLMAO!!

You ignorant KOOKS are a trip and a half....

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-28   21:50:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#233. To: Aric2000 (#232)

You seem overstimulated, take a deep breath...

You seem lonely, confused. Are you in need of a friend?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-28   21:53:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#234. To: Aric2000 (#232)

    DU has Uranium as part of it's name, it MUST be dangerous...

Who said that?

    ROFLMAO!!

And why are you posting naked, in front of a mirror?

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   21:53:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#235. To: Aric2000 (#232)

okay discredit what Dr. Rokke has to say about DU.. rather than revert to two contridictory thoughts which is a sign of thoughtlessness..This is total nonsense..a silly tactic that is a waste of time.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-28   21:56:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: Aric2000 (#232)

You guys are CLUELESS about DU and it shows, BIG time.

Bunch of paranoid KOOKS.

DU has Uranium as part of it's name, it MUST be dangerous...

ROFLMAO!!

You ignorant KOOKS are a trip and a half....

You're losing it.

Get a grip.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   21:57:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#237. To: crack monkey (#236)

Shut up, I want people for my cult...

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-28   21:59:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#238. To: Aric2000 (#232)

    DU has Uranium as part of it's name, it MUST be dangerous...

We use it to counter balance commercial airplanes, you raving dumbass. It's all around us.

No one is questioning it's use there.

Get a grip.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   22:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#239. To: Dakmar (#237)

Shut up, I want people for my cult...

He's not very good. He forgot to call everyone butt munchers and doo-doo heads.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   22:00:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#240. To: Dakmar (#237)

Back off.. He's mine.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   22:00:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#241. To: crack monkey (#236)

It's nonsense.. utter nonsense.. BTW have you viewed the film of Dr. Rokke? Very interesting..on DU..rather long but lots of info:

Major Doug Rokke, D.U. expert

Also, this portion is quite interesting:

Part Three: THEY TOLD ME TO LIE: Major Doug Rokke, D.U. expert Maj. Doug Rokke blows the whistle on the Pentagon, exposing the "willful neglect, dereliction of duty and abandonment of the warrior" and crimes "against God and humanity" posed to all life by the use of depleted uranium by the US. 160,000 Gulf War vets are classified permanently disabled; 8000 have died-VA documents.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-28   22:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#242. To: Jhoffa_ (#240)

Fight you for him, in the alley behind the liquor store

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-28   22:02:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#243. To: Dakmar (#242)

You always want all the good ones..

:(

How will I ever gain domination over the pizza-delivery/military-industrial complex without loyal, and easily brainwashed, followers?

It's free market at it's best.. Supply and Demand..

So, lower your opening wage and stuff.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   22:07:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#244. To: Jhoffa_ (#243)

How will I ever gain domination over the pizza-delivery/military-industrial complex without loyal, and easily brainwashed, followers?

Tattoos?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-28   22:09:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#245. To: Dakmar (#244)

I considered that... but figured it was a Zionist® plot.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-04-28   22:11:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: Dakmar (#237)

I want people for my cult...

I gotta give you credit...That was good thinkin' going for the cultists who are already dosed on the Kool-Aid, that should save you a lot of money in the long run.

Esso  posted on  2005-04-28   22:12:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#247. To: Aric2000 (#232)

I see, since you can't fight me with evidence, you will try to discredit me with BULLSHIT....

Quite amusing, to say the least.

You guys are CLUELESS about DU and it shows, BIG time.

Bunch of paranoid KOOKS.

DU has Uranium as part of it's name, it MUST be dangerous...

ROFLMAO!!

You ignorant KOOKS are a trip and a half....

Aric2000 posted on 2005-04-28 21:50:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Aric, You and others have presented alot of info that I have found interesting. The long half life certainly shows the rate of radiation is low, and w/o much energy. And mainly alpha particles, which are easily blocked by clothes or skin. In the lungs, that maybe a different concern.

And this is where I feel the concerns have always been. The DU round is pyrophoric, I believe. It is not entirely a Kentic Energy weapon, though that aspect is not inconsiderable. From what I understand, it ignites upon the tremendous pressure contact it has with it's target.

The vaporization of the U, combining with the assorted "debris" into something approaching an aresol, is where a real health problem may exist.

As you are aware, debris emitting alpha particles caught in the lungs do, from what I've read, pose a very real health threat. You may be much better off eating 2 grams of DU, than breathing in 0.02 grams and having some amount caught in the delicate lung tissue, and being exposed to the low level radiation for a long period of time.

We will know ten years from now, in any event. It may be that the real culprit of the awful conditions being experienced by the GW1 vets is a toxic brew of insect vectored parasites, alond with the experimental vaccines given the the soldiers, and a bit of DU in the lungs. Stir and let sit in the sun for a few years, and see what developes.

tom007  posted on  2005-04-28   22:49:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#248. To: Aric2000 (#232)

DU has Uranium as part of it's name, it MUST be dangerous...

I worked in a commercial nuclear plant for quite a few years and have no phobic reaction to the thought of radiological substances like uranium. Nevertheless, I know enough about the subject to know that aerosolized DU is nasty shit. No doubt there are plenty of other substances that are contributing to Gulf War Syndrome, but DU is a proven agent in certain maladies that our troops and the civilian populations we've attacked are suffering.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-28   23:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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