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Title: Depleted U - An impromptu interview w/ a Career Tank Specialist
Source: me
URL Source: http://none.com
Published: Apr 27, 2005
Author: Tom007
Post Date: 2005-04-27 22:07:28 by tom007
Keywords: Specialist, impromptu, interview
Views: 2749
Comments: 488

Had an intesting conversation with a man I have known for about 5 months. He delivers to my store, handles alot of cash and is a "straight up" kind of guy. I like him, and I am sure his employer does as well. A steady Eddie man, the kind that makes the country run.

We somehow got talking about the ME, and he mentioned he had been to Egypt, and really did not care for any of it. I asked him how it was that he found himself in the ME and he said he was in the service of the military.

Naturally I wanted to know in what type of service he was in. Well, he was drafted into 'Nam, and did twentyfour years, and tanks were his thing. He started out in a tank designation I did not know of. I know a little about M1A1' and wanted to know some things about them, and the man was very evidently the real deal, no swagger, no he man stories etc. He is who he claims.

After some talk of tactics, guns, how to disable an M1A1, exploding armor, all of which he had the knolwedge of a solider who had spent many years with this type of equipment. He was pretty high up in the system.

Then I asked him about DU. Well turns out he was one of the men on the ground testing it at Aburdeen Proving grounds, shooting various things, like mounds of earth, then digging into it to estimate the ballistics, etc.

Did this many time, and my friend related that one time a DU projectile fragmented into the mound of earth. They were to go dig all the pieces of the remenents out. As he tells me, there was a hole that one of the fragments had made, and as they were poking around, a field mouse was scared up and scampered into that hole made by a fragment.

He just sat back and waited for it to come out-; it didn't. After a few minutes, he saw that it was dead.

He went and got the General of the testing operation, and showed him what he had discovered. The General and his men looked at the situation and told all the testers to go away. For three weeks the site was closed, except to the investigators.

Three weeks later, the investigation was complete. The report said the mouse died of "starvation". My friend looked at me, eye to eye, and laughed. "That mouse damn sure didn't die of starvation", he said emphatically.

He said when the DU rounds hit a tank, he could "see a mushroom cloud", formed (Note, alot of high intensity heat will form a mushroom cloud event).

He said "if you take a giger counter into one of the tanks with DU munitions it will beep like crazy". He said that the explosiom of a DU round into steel was" basically a miniature explosion of a nuclear bomb".

He said they would put goats in the test tanks, and around them. He stated that " for twentyfive meters around the tank, hit by a DU round, all the goats would be dead, ten meters, mangled, turned inside out".

He believed DU dust to be alot more dangerous than the military was allowing.

This man is much more creadible, to me, much more, than the talking hairdoo's reading spin points from the Pentagon.

Draw your own conclusions, this is what I heard today, from a man with incontrovertable creadibility with me. He was there.

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#333. To: Jethro Tull (#330)

Current material on this thread connects DU and birth defects.

Give me a link to something verifable. Anything referencing back to Moret, Busby, etc. does not qualify. Peer reviewed scientific or medical journals prefered.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   16:46:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#331)

Nearly every study I've read that evaluates the health of babies born to Gulf War Vets versus Non Gulf War Vets shows a significantly high rate of renal abnormalities. Hmmmm... I wonder why that might be?

You haven't posted a source. Hmmmm... I wonder why that might be? Anything referencing back to Moret, Busby, et al, is unnacceptable.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   16:48:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: Kyle (#332)

Slight. Minimal. No causation.

Yeah. Fuck'em. Right, Kyle? That IS your attitude. They're just scum sucking military anyway, so who cares if they have medical problems. It sure doesn't bother Kyle. No way, man. He's too educated to care about the military or the civilians in those other countries where the sub-humans live. Yeah, Kyle, you're a real man's man. A macho piece of fecal matter.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   16:50:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: Kyle (#333)

Give me a link to something verifable. Anything referencing back to Moret, Busby, etc. does not qualify. Peer reviewed scientific or medical journals prefered.

I see you're still here denying ..spinning..like a whirling dervish.. My question .. how do YOU benefit from playing the role of a disinformationalist? Hmm you mentioned grandchildren.. are they serving in Iraq.. ?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-29   16:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: Kyle (#334)

You haven't posted a source.

You don't read them anyway. You just pick through until you run across a word that you think might discredit it and then you post it like some kind of trump card, not even realizing that you're making a fool of yourself.

If you care even one little tiny bit about the lives of vets or their children, then how about you look up the studies and find the level of renal abnormalities in GWV offspring. No, you won't, because you don't give a shit. They're just meat machines to your kind of punk.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   16:53:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#335)

Slight. Minimal. No causation.

Yeah. Fuck'em. Right, Kyle? That IS your attitude.

I don't know if your response is out of ignorance or if you are being intentionally obtuse. 'Slight' and 'minimal' mean that they are of limited statistical significance and/or may be caused by other factors not accounted for in the study. 'No causation' states the obvious - The effect, if real, could be caused by something else entirely, since they made no conclusions.

I'm not heartless. If the proof were there, I'd be all over it, but it's not. I know - You're probably a braindead Lefty that thinks the seriousness of the charge takes precedence over whether there is any evidence or not.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   17:00:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: Kyle (#338)

You're probably a braindead Lefty

Now.. arent these choice of words interesting..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-29   17:02:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#337)

You haven't posted a source.

You don't read them anyway.

I not only read them, but I follow links and do extensive web searches. That's how I find out that these 'experts' are tight little circles of self- referencing charlatans.

You just pick through until you run across a word that you think might discredit it and then you post it like some kind of trump card, not even realizing that you're making a fool of yourself.

As I explained above, I do a lot more than you. You're the fool for being suckered by these charlatans.

If you care even one little tiny bit about the lives of vets or their children, then how about you look up the studies and find the level of renal abnormalities in GWV offspring. No, you won't, because you don't give a shit. They're just meat machines to your kind of punk.

Why should I look up your claims? If you've got something, give me a lead. If you don't, or you know that it's BS, then admit it, and STOP CLAIMING I DON'T CARE BECAUSE I'M RATIONAL ABOUT IT.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   17:04:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: Zipporah (#339)

You're probably a braindead Lefty

Now.. arent these choice of words interesting..

Not really. They go together so often as to be mundane.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   17:05:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: Kyle (#340)

I not only read them, but I follow links and do extensive web searches.

Uh-huh. That's how you got caught presuming to post a research conclusion that in fact was not even from the study the posted abstract referenced. That's also why you got caught failing to even read anything but the teaser on an article that you posted from and didn't realize the article contradicted what you were claiming. Face it Kyle. Everybody here sees right through your little charade.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   17:08:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: Kyle (#341)

yes they are mundane.. same old same old same propaganda technique.. If someone doesnt buy into the official BS .. they are either an evil leftist or a kook.. according to the propagandists.. so it was expected.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-29   17:08:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: Kyle (#340)

You're the fool for being suckered by these charlatans.

Charlatans? What charlatans, Kyle? You don't even have the slightest clue who you are calling a charlatan because you haven't looked up the research on renal abnormalities in the offspring of Gulf War Vets. If you did, you might be embarrassed, but that's why you won't. You're too much of a lying coward.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   17:09:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#342)

That's also why you got caught failing to even read anything but the teaser on an article that you posted from and didn't realize the article contradicted what you were claiming.

Kyle didn't even read the teaser. The first sentence of the Teaser blew him out of the water. If he had read that, he never would have referenced the article. Kyle simply told a bald faced lie about having sources to back him up.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-29   17:12:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: crack monkey (#345)

Kyle simply told a bald faced lie about having sources to back him up.

Go figure. He's in the rarified air of the neo-con empire and we're stuck here in the reality based community.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   17:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: crack monkey (#345)

That's also why you got caught failing to even read anything but the teaser on an article that you posted from and didn't realize the article contradicted what you were claiming.

Kyle didn't even read the teaser. The first sentence of the Teaser blew him out of the water. If he had read that, he never would have referenced the article. Kyle simply told a bald faced lie about having sources to back him up.

Just keep saying it; but it won't change the facts. The article quoted Pollack saying precisely what I said he said. The 'teaser' was the opinion of the unnamed person who posted the article. Really lame guys. Your reaching back for it yet again smells of flop sweat ;o)

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   17:33:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#344)

because you haven't looked up the research on renal abnormalities in the offspring of Gulf War Vets.

Post a link or shut up about it.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   17:34:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut, crack monkey (#346)

we're stuck here in the reality based community.

Antiwar.com? Reality based? ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   17:39:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#350. To: Kyle (#348)

Post a link or shut up about it.

No, Kyle. I don't think you are in any position to make me shut up about it. You can't make the medical researchers shut up about it either. The best you can do is ignore it or plug your ears and chant while hoping it goes away.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   17:41:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: Kyle (#349)

Antiwar.com? Reality based? ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!

See, here's another example of Kyle making a fool of himself by ignoring information because it came from a source he's scared of. You do realize that in actual fact you are making fun of a senior Bush Administration official, don't you? No, you don't realize it. You're too willfully ignorant to understand the context of what I referred to.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   17:43:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: Kyle (#333)

Give me a link to something .

Here's something verifiable. We're getting our asses kicked and it's well deserved. There was a time I actually wanted these guys home, but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming. The Iraqis have us tied down and the all volunteer military is showing signs of severe strain. I recently read where a 55 year old grandmother is being returned to active duty. This is good. I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   17:58:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#353. To: Kyle (#348)

Kyle, welcome to the past, and our future.

An audio and pictorial display for your delight.

Peace.

The Doors - The End

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   19:04:40 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#354. To: Kyle (#347)

The article quoted Pollack saying precisely what I said he said. The 'teaser' was the opinion of the unnamed person who posted the article.

The Atlantic article you quoted refutes your position. The link is up and everyone can read it and decide for themselves. / chuckle!

I don't blame you for trying to spin it however. What else can a person do when they get caught out as a bald faced liar and bullshitter -- like you did. /grin.

There is no changing the fact that you are a moron who referenced an article you hadn't read and which blew your position out of the water.

Here is the link in case anyone missed the show:

Kyle Lies Like a Rug and Gets Busted For It.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-29   19:12:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: Kyle (#348)

Kyle, Kyle....more linkies....

Stop, children, what's that sound, everybody look what's going down

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   19:23:53 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#356. To: Jethro Tull (#330)

Current material on this thread connects DU and birth defects.

Actually, current material on this thread notes the existence of a statistically detectable elevation in numbers of certain defects among a cohort composed of Gulf War veterans without positing a cause.

Personally, I think they're on the rats ass edge of variance and relative risk versus their 95% UCL too, based on having a lot of experience having to derive 90% and 95% UCL values for lead in soil (of which, the fact that it is soil or people is irrelevant since the whole shebang is being broken down into numbers). I'll try to remember to run those figures by someone else here next week who specialized in it...

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-29   21:41:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#357. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#331)

significantly high rate

The relative risk number is probably based on a per million CFR or EPA type threshold. If this is true, the relative risk numbers derived would infer the nuber of cases versus 1 per million, i.e. if the factor is 6 there would be 6 per million as opposed to the normal background of 1.

"Significantly high rate" as a term, is not something statisticians should be throwing around in "for public consumption" stuff without a bit of clarification. Many times a "significantly high rate" to the statistician is a rate that determines that a particular effect, defect, illness etc... may be connected to an identifiable cause and thus warrants further study (and grant money, for the cynical).

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-29   21:48:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#358. To: Kyle, Mr Nuke Buzzcut, All (#338)

I'll grant that the numbers in and of themselves probably warrant a lot further close study to see if there is a linkable effect. That's basically the level of conclusion that those numbers draw.

The BIG thing here though that some folks might want to think about is that, if you take these statistical derivations on their face as a conclusion that fits either side of the issues conception of it, you are opening yourselves to accepting these very same methods and levels of statistical certainty for other issues that you may be 180 degrees from the conclusion of.

Think about that, the same method may eshew further studies, because most of the people the "conclusion" is aimed at swaying accept it on its face. That could get ugly when you're fighting gun control, welfare, crime, drug use and other "statistics".

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-29   21:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#359. To: Kyle (#334)

Spend some time here

Check back in a few weeks.

Lod  posted on  2005-04-29   22:01:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#360. To: Kyle (#314)

collected data on all live births at 135 military hospitals in 1991, 1992, and 1993.

Nice try. Close, but no cigar. That time period is when there was still the possibility of plausible deniability. The same way they denied Agent Orange had adverse effects for so many years. I will not repeat what other have posted already on this obvious disinfo ploy of yours.

JT sad it best. Here's a dollar, buy a clue. ROTFLMAO!

BTP Holdings  posted on  2005-04-29   22:20:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#361. To: Jethro Tull (#353)

Oooooh; talk about nostalgia!

Am I really that old?

Ouch!

{Hey, the lyrics are still valid!}


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-04-29   22:50:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#362. To: Jethro Tull (#353)

Hey thanks JT for the music links! :)

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-29   22:59:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#363. To: Kyle, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#348)

The Real Casualty Rate from America's Iraq Wars
Chalmers Johnson


Most young Americans who enlist in our all-volunteer armed forces -- roughly four out of five -- specifically choose non-combat jobs, becoming computer technicians, personnel managers, shipping clerks, truck mechanics, weather forecasters, intelligence analysts, cooks, or forklift drivers, among the many other duties that carry a low risk of contact with an enemy. They often enlist because they have failed to find similar work in the civilian economy and thus take refuge in the military's long-established system of state socialism -- steady paychecks, decent housing, medical and dental benefits, job training, and the possibility of a college education. The mother of one such recruit recently commented on her 19-year-old daughter, who will soon become an Army intelligence analyst. She was proud but also cynical: "Wealthy people don't go into the military or take risks because why should they? They already got everything handed to them."

These recruits do not expect to be shot at. Thus it was a shock to the rank-and-file last month when Iraqi guns opened up on an Army supply convoy, killing eight and taking another six prisoner, including supply clerk Jessica Lynch of Palestine, West Virginia. The Army's response has been, "You don't have to be in combat arms [branches of the military] to close with and kill the enemy." But what the Pentagon is not saying to the Private Lynches and their families is that they stand a very good chance of dying or being catastrophically disabled precisely because they chose the U.S. military as a route of social mobility.

There are serious unintended consequences to our most recent "no contact" or "painless dentistry" wars that contradict the Pentagon's claims of low casualties. The most important is the malady that goes by the name "Gulf War Syndrome," a potentially deadly medical disorder that first appeared among combat veterans of the 1990-1991 Gulf War. Just as the effects of Agent Orange during the Vietnam War were first explained away by the Pentagon as "post-traumatic stress disorder," "combat fatigue," or "shell shock," so the Bush administration is now playing down the potential toxic side effects of the ammunition now being widely used by its armed forces. The implications are devastating, not just for America's adversaries, or civilians caught in their country-turned-battlefield, but for American forces themselves (and even possibly their future offspring).

The first Iraq War produced four classes of casualties -- killed in action, wounded in action, killed in accidents (including "friendly fire"), and injuries and illnesses that appeared only after the end of hostilities. During 1990 and 1991, some 696,778 individuals served in the Persian Gulf as elements of Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm. Of these 148 were killed in battle, 467 were wounded in action, and 145 were killed in accidents, producing a total of 760 casualties, quite a low number given the scale of the operations.

However, as of May 2002, the Veterans Administration (VA) reported that an additional 8,306 soldiers had died and 159,705 were injured or ill as a result of service-connected "exposures" suffered during the war. Even more alarmingly, the VA revealed that 206,861 veterans, almost a third of G eneral Schwarzkopf's entire army, had filed claims for medical care, compensation, and pension benefits based on injuries and illnesses caused by combat in 1991. After reviewing the cases, the agency has classified 168,011 applicants as "disabled veterans." In light of these deaths and disabilities, the casualty rate for the first Gulf War is actually a staggering 29.3%.

Dr. Doug Rokke, a former Army colonel and professor of environmental science at Jacksonville University, was in charge of the military's environmental clean-up following the first Gulf War. The Pentagon has since sacked him for criticizing NATO commanders for not adequately protecting their troops in areas where DU ammunition was used, such as Kosovo in 1999. Dr. Rokke notes that many thousands of American troops have been based in and around Kuwait since 1990, and according to his calculations, between August 1990 and May 2002, a total of 262,586 soldiers became "disabled veterans" and 10,617 have died. His numbers produce a casualty rate for the whole decade of 30.8%.

A significant probable factor in these deaths and disabilities is depleted uranium (DU) ammunition, although this is a hotly contested proposition. Some researchers, often paid for by the Pentagon, argue that depleted uranium could not possibly be the cause of these war-related maladies and that a more likely explanation is dust and debris from the blowing up of Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons factories in 1991 in the wake of the first Gulf War, or perhaps a "cocktail" of particles from DU ammunition, the destruction of nerve gas bunkers, and polluted air from burning oil fields. But the evidence -- including abnormal clusters of childhood cancers and deformities in Iraq and also evidently in the areas of Kosovo where, in 1999, we used depleted-uranium weapons in our air war against the Serbians -- points primarily toward DU. Moreover, simply by insisting on using such weaponry, the Pentagon is deliberately flouting a 1996 United Nations resolution that classifies DU ammunition as an illegal weapon of mass destruction.

DU, or Uranium-238, is a waste product of power-generating nuclear reactors. It is used in projectiles like tank shells and cruise missiles because it is 1.7 times denser than lead, burns as it flies, and penetrates armor easily, but it breaks up and vaporizes on impact --which makes it potentially very deadly. Each shell fired by an American tank includes ten pounds of DU. Such warheads are essentially "dirty bombs," not very radioactive individually but nonetheless suspected of being capable in quantity of causing serious illnesses and birth defects.

In 1991, U.S. forces fired a staggering 944,000 DU rounds in Kuwait and Iraq. The Pentagon admits that it left behind at a bare minimum 320 metric tons of DU on the battlefield. One study of Gulf War veterans showed that their children had a higher possibility of being born with severe deformities, including missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems, and fused fingers. Dr. Rokke fears that because the military relied more heavily on DU munitions in the second Iraq War than in the first, postwar casualties may be even greater. When he sees TV images of unprotected soldiers and Iraqi civilians driving past burning Iraqi trucks destroyed by tank fire or inspecting buildings hit by missiles, he suspects that they are being poisoned by DU.

Young Americans being seduced into the armed forces these days are quite literally making themselves into "cannon fodder," even if they have been able to secure non-combat jobs. Before we begin to celebrate how few American casualties there were in the brief Iraq war, we might pause to consider the future. The numbers of Americans killed and maimed from Gulf War II are only beginning to be toted up. The full count will not be known for at least a decade. The fact that the U.S. high command continues to rely on such weaponry for warfare is precisely why the world needs an International Criminal Court and why the United States should be liable under its jurisdiction. Because of its potential dangers and because the alarm has been raised (even if the Pentagon refuses to acknowledge this), the use of DU ammunition should already be considered a war crime one that may also destroy the user in a painfully crippling way.

Sources:

* David Wood, "Shaky Economy Alters Equations of Risk in Today's Military," San Diego Union-Tribune, April 27, 2003; * Doug Rokke, "Gulf War Casualties," September 30, 2002, on line at ; * UK to Aid DU Removal," BBC News, April 23, 2003; * Frances Williams, "Clean-up of Pollution Urged to Reduce Health Risks" and Vanessa Houlder, "Allied Troops 'Risk Uranium Exposure,'" Financial Times, April 25, 2003; * Steven Rosenfeld, "Gulf War Syndrome, The Sequel," TomPaine.com, April 8, 2003; * Susanna Hecht, "Uranium Warheads May Leave Both Sides a Legacy of Death for Decades," Los Angeles Times, March 30, 2003; and * Neil Mackay, "U.S. Forces' Use of Depleted Uranium Is 'Illegal,'" Glasgow Sunday Herald, March 30, 2003.

Chalmers Johnson is author of Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire and, forthcoming, The Sorrows of Empire: How the Americans Lost Their Country.

Copyright Chalmers Johnson

[This article first appeared on http://www.tomdispatch.com, a weblog of the Nation Institute, which offers a steady flow of alternate sources, news and opinion from Tom Engelhardt, long time editor in publishing and author of The End of Victory Culture.] http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=3564

Last updated 14/05/2003

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-04-29   23:13:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#364. To: Jethro Tull (#352)

We're getting our asses kicked and it's well deserved. There was a time I actually wanted these guys home, but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming. The Iraqis have us tied down and the all volunteer military is showing signs of severe strain. I recently read where a 55 year old grandmother is being returned to active duty. This is good. I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance.

You are a sick fuck.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   23:15:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#365. To: Jethro Tull, kyle (#352)

This is good. I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance.

Jethro Tull posted on 2005-04-29 17:58:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

I do not suppose most of them have much of a desire to be in Iraq. They are compelled.

"They Hate Us Because We're Free".

tom007  posted on  2005-04-29   23:20:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#366. To: Kyle (#364)

Bullies need a good beating, Kyle. Get used to it :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   23:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#367. To: SKYDRIFTER, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#363)

Even more alarmingly, the VA revealed that 206,861 veterans, almost a third of G eneral Schwarzkopf's entire army, had filed claims for medical care, compensation, and pension benefits based on injuries and illnesses caused by combat in 1991.

TRANS: Saw a VA doctor for ANY reason at all.

After reviewing the cases, the agency has classified 168,011 applicants as "disabled veterans."

Post the link. This is BS. However, if true, it's WAY less than the 500,000 that your sources claimed. Oops! There goes their credibility. Thanks Skyboy.

DU, or Uranium-238, is a waste product of power-generating nuclear reactors.

BS. It is a byproduct of enrichment of natural uranium.

One study of Gulf War veterans showed that their children had a higher possibility of being born with severe deformities, including missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems, and fused fingers.

Let's see the study, w/ a link. I'll guarantee it's BS. Remember that I posted a New England Journal of Medicine study, from 6 years after GWI, with a sample size of 34,000 births, that found NOTHING.

...the world needs an International Criminal Court and why the United States should be liable under its jurisdiction.

That, and the author (Chalmers Johnson) should be two strong clues as to the bias of this article.

BTW, why bother pinging Lurker? He knows if he comes back, he'll have to face up to his utter failure.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   23:32:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#368. To: Jethro Tull, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#352)

We're getting our asses kicked and it's well deserved. There was a time I actually wanted these guys home, but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming. The Iraqis have us tied down and the all volunteer military is showing signs of severe strain. I recently read where a 55 year old grandmother is being returned to active duty. This is good. I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance.

In case you missed it - Jethro posted the above. Are any of the rest of you guys willing to defend this sick fuck?

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   23:34:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#369. To: Jethro Tull (#366)

Bullies need a good beating, Kyle. Get used to it :)

LOL!

Of course its just the loving thing to do

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-29   23:34:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#370. To: Kyle (#364)

You are a sick f**k.

Kyle, after much thought, and given the state of this current government, I’ve reached the conclusion that I’m anti-American. Therefore, I'm not a sick f**k as you suggest, but rather a patriot in the mold of our founders. Please, my hand is extended, won't you join me in my struggle to take this nation back?

Thank you.

cc: Alberto Gonzalez c/o La Raza

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   23:34:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#371. To: Kyle, Jethro Tull, christiene, zipporah, crack monkey, arator (#364)

There was a time I actually wanted these guys home, but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming. T

JT,

I think you need to realize that most of the fellow citizens have little objective understanding of the war's "big picture".

They are put into to groups of men and women, and almost all will quickly adopt the attitudes of the group. This "instinct" to fit in has been explored for thousands of years. When there is not much physical danger or hardship, thinking differently occurs frequently.

When the group is under stress, nearly all will follow the group think, no matter how boneheaded it is.

Very few amoungst us will have the knowledge, vision and then the gumption to tell the group, the course of action they are taking is wrong.

This is not history, it is the human condition, to understand it will illuminate human history.

This is why the girl in the prison in Iraq gleefully tourtured the Iraqi's, her group said it was the thing to do.

Some one said, "If the entire mass of Humanity was to be buried in a colossial grave, the tremendous gravestone would bear the epitath "IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME"

tom007  posted on  2005-04-29   23:35:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#372. To: Kyle (#364)

You are a sick fuck.

Naw. The sick fucks are the ones cheerleading the war. That would be you.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   23:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#373. To: Kyle (#367)

Remember that I posted a New England Journal of Medicine study, from 6 years after GWI, with a sample size of 34,000 births, that found NOTHING.

Remember that I posted a follow-on study with an even larger sample size that didn't limit itself to self-reporting by the VA and the results were somewhat different than what you champion.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   23:39:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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