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Title: Depleted U - An impromptu interview w/ a Career Tank Specialist
Source: me
URL Source: http://none.com
Published: Apr 27, 2005
Author: Tom007
Post Date: 2005-04-27 22:07:28 by tom007
Keywords: Specialist, impromptu, interview
Views: 2318
Comments: 488

Had an intesting conversation with a man I have known for about 5 months. He delivers to my store, handles alot of cash and is a "straight up" kind of guy. I like him, and I am sure his employer does as well. A steady Eddie man, the kind that makes the country run.

We somehow got talking about the ME, and he mentioned he had been to Egypt, and really did not care for any of it. I asked him how it was that he found himself in the ME and he said he was in the service of the military.

Naturally I wanted to know in what type of service he was in. Well, he was drafted into 'Nam, and did twentyfour years, and tanks were his thing. He started out in a tank designation I did not know of. I know a little about M1A1' and wanted to know some things about them, and the man was very evidently the real deal, no swagger, no he man stories etc. He is who he claims.

After some talk of tactics, guns, how to disable an M1A1, exploding armor, all of which he had the knolwedge of a solider who had spent many years with this type of equipment. He was pretty high up in the system.

Then I asked him about DU. Well turns out he was one of the men on the ground testing it at Aburdeen Proving grounds, shooting various things, like mounds of earth, then digging into it to estimate the ballistics, etc.

Did this many time, and my friend related that one time a DU projectile fragmented into the mound of earth. They were to go dig all the pieces of the remenents out. As he tells me, there was a hole that one of the fragments had made, and as they were poking around, a field mouse was scared up and scampered into that hole made by a fragment.

He just sat back and waited for it to come out-; it didn't. After a few minutes, he saw that it was dead.

He went and got the General of the testing operation, and showed him what he had discovered. The General and his men looked at the situation and told all the testers to go away. For three weeks the site was closed, except to the investigators.

Three weeks later, the investigation was complete. The report said the mouse died of "starvation". My friend looked at me, eye to eye, and laughed. "That mouse damn sure didn't die of starvation", he said emphatically.

He said when the DU rounds hit a tank, he could "see a mushroom cloud", formed (Note, alot of high intensity heat will form a mushroom cloud event).

He said "if you take a giger counter into one of the tanks with DU munitions it will beep like crazy". He said that the explosiom of a DU round into steel was" basically a miniature explosion of a nuclear bomb".

He said they would put goats in the test tanks, and around them. He stated that " for twentyfive meters around the tank, hit by a DU round, all the goats would be dead, ten meters, mangled, turned inside out".

He believed DU dust to be alot more dangerous than the military was allowing.

This man is much more creadible, to me, much more, than the talking hairdoo's reading spin points from the Pentagon.

Draw your own conclusions, this is what I heard today, from a man with incontrovertable creadibility with me. He was there.

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#362. To: Jethro Tull (#353)

Hey thanks JT for the music links! :)

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-29   22:59:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#363. To: Kyle, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#348)

The Real Casualty Rate from America's Iraq Wars
Chalmers Johnson


Most young Americans who enlist in our all-volunteer armed forces -- roughly four out of five -- specifically choose non-combat jobs, becoming computer technicians, personnel managers, shipping clerks, truck mechanics, weather forecasters, intelligence analysts, cooks, or forklift drivers, among the many other duties that carry a low risk of contact with an enemy. They often enlist because they have failed to find similar work in the civilian economy and thus take refuge in the military's long-established system of state socialism -- steady paychecks, decent housing, medical and dental benefits, job training, and the possibility of a college education. The mother of one such recruit recently commented on her 19-year-old daughter, who will soon become an Army intelligence analyst. She was proud but also cynical: "Wealthy people don't go into the military or take risks because why should they? They already got everything handed to them."

These recruits do not expect to be shot at. Thus it was a shock to the rank-and-file last month when Iraqi guns opened up on an Army supply convoy, killing eight and taking another six prisoner, including supply clerk Jessica Lynch of Palestine, West Virginia. The Army's response has been, "You don't have to be in combat arms [branches of the military] to close with and kill the enemy." But what the Pentagon is not saying to the Private Lynches and their families is that they stand a very good chance of dying or being catastrophically disabled precisely because they chose the U.S. military as a route of social mobility.

There are serious unintended consequences to our most recent "no contact" or "painless dentistry" wars that contradict the Pentagon's claims of low casualties. The most important is the malady that goes by the name "Gulf War Syndrome," a potentially deadly medical disorder that first appeared among combat veterans of the 1990-1991 Gulf War. Just as the effects of Agent Orange during the Vietnam War were first explained away by the Pentagon as "post-traumatic stress disorder," "combat fatigue," or "shell shock," so the Bush administration is now playing down the potential toxic side effects of the ammunition now being widely used by its armed forces. The implications are devastating, not just for America's adversaries, or civilians caught in their country-turned-battlefield, but for American forces themselves (and even possibly their future offspring).

The first Iraq War produced four classes of casualties -- killed in action, wounded in action, killed in accidents (including "friendly fire"), and injuries and illnesses that appeared only after the end of hostilities. During 1990 and 1991, some 696,778 individuals served in the Persian Gulf as elements of Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm. Of these 148 were killed in battle, 467 were wounded in action, and 145 were killed in accidents, producing a total of 760 casualties, quite a low number given the scale of the operations.

However, as of May 2002, the Veterans Administration (VA) reported that an additional 8,306 soldiers had died and 159,705 were injured or ill as a result of service-connected "exposures" suffered during the war. Even more alarmingly, the VA revealed that 206,861 veterans, almost a third of G eneral Schwarzkopf's entire army, had filed claims for medical care, compensation, and pension benefits based on injuries and illnesses caused by combat in 1991. After reviewing the cases, the agency has classified 168,011 applicants as "disabled veterans." In light of these deaths and disabilities, the casualty rate for the first Gulf War is actually a staggering 29.3%.

Dr. Doug Rokke, a former Army colonel and professor of environmental science at Jacksonville University, was in charge of the military's environmental clean-up following the first Gulf War. The Pentagon has since sacked him for criticizing NATO commanders for not adequately protecting their troops in areas where DU ammunition was used, such as Kosovo in 1999. Dr. Rokke notes that many thousands of American troops have been based in and around Kuwait since 1990, and according to his calculations, between August 1990 and May 2002, a total of 262,586 soldiers became "disabled veterans" and 10,617 have died. His numbers produce a casualty rate for the whole decade of 30.8%.

A significant probable factor in these deaths and disabilities is depleted uranium (DU) ammunition, although this is a hotly contested proposition. Some researchers, often paid for by the Pentagon, argue that depleted uranium could not possibly be the cause of these war-related maladies and that a more likely explanation is dust and debris from the blowing up of Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons factories in 1991 in the wake of the first Gulf War, or perhaps a "cocktail" of particles from DU ammunition, the destruction of nerve gas bunkers, and polluted air from burning oil fields. But the evidence -- including abnormal clusters of childhood cancers and deformities in Iraq and also evidently in the areas of Kosovo where, in 1999, we used depleted-uranium weapons in our air war against the Serbians -- points primarily toward DU. Moreover, simply by insisting on using such weaponry, the Pentagon is deliberately flouting a 1996 United Nations resolution that classifies DU ammunition as an illegal weapon of mass destruction.

DU, or Uranium-238, is a waste product of power-generating nuclear reactors. It is used in projectiles like tank shells and cruise missiles because it is 1.7 times denser than lead, burns as it flies, and penetrates armor easily, but it breaks up and vaporizes on impact --which makes it potentially very deadly. Each shell fired by an American tank includes ten pounds of DU. Such warheads are essentially "dirty bombs," not very radioactive individually but nonetheless suspected of being capable in quantity of causing serious illnesses and birth defects.

In 1991, U.S. forces fired a staggering 944,000 DU rounds in Kuwait and Iraq. The Pentagon admits that it left behind at a bare minimum 320 metric tons of DU on the battlefield. One study of Gulf War veterans showed that their children had a higher possibility of being born with severe deformities, including missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems, and fused fingers. Dr. Rokke fears that because the military relied more heavily on DU munitions in the second Iraq War than in the first, postwar casualties may be even greater. When he sees TV images of unprotected soldiers and Iraqi civilians driving past burning Iraqi trucks destroyed by tank fire or inspecting buildings hit by missiles, he suspects that they are being poisoned by DU.

Young Americans being seduced into the armed forces these days are quite literally making themselves into "cannon fodder," even if they have been able to secure non-combat jobs. Before we begin to celebrate how few American casualties there were in the brief Iraq war, we might pause to consider the future. The numbers of Americans killed and maimed from Gulf War II are only beginning to be toted up. The full count will not be known for at least a decade. The fact that the U.S. high command continues to rely on such weaponry for warfare is precisely why the world needs an International Criminal Court and why the United States should be liable under its jurisdiction. Because of its potential dangers and because the alarm has been raised (even if the Pentagon refuses to acknowledge this), the use of DU ammunition should already be considered a war crime one that may also destroy the user in a painfully crippling way.

Sources:

* David Wood, "Shaky Economy Alters Equations of Risk in Today's Military," San Diego Union-Tribune, April 27, 2003; * Doug Rokke, "Gulf War Casualties," September 30, 2002, on line at ; * UK to Aid DU Removal," BBC News, April 23, 2003; * Frances Williams, "Clean-up of Pollution Urged to Reduce Health Risks" and Vanessa Houlder, "Allied Troops 'Risk Uranium Exposure,'" Financial Times, April 25, 2003; * Steven Rosenfeld, "Gulf War Syndrome, The Sequel," TomPaine.com, April 8, 2003; * Susanna Hecht, "Uranium Warheads May Leave Both Sides a Legacy of Death for Decades," Los Angeles Times, March 30, 2003; and * Neil Mackay, "U.S. Forces' Use of Depleted Uranium Is 'Illegal,'" Glasgow Sunday Herald, March 30, 2003.

Chalmers Johnson is author of Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire and, forthcoming, The Sorrows of Empire: How the Americans Lost Their Country.

Copyright Chalmers Johnson

[This article first appeared on http://www.tomdispatch.com, a weblog of the Nation Institute, which offers a steady flow of alternate sources, news and opinion from Tom Engelhardt, long time editor in publishing and author of The End of Victory Culture.] http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=3564

Last updated 14/05/2003

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-04-29   23:13:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#364. To: Jethro Tull (#352)

We're getting our asses kicked and it's well deserved. There was a time I actually wanted these guys home, but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming. The Iraqis have us tied down and the all volunteer military is showing signs of severe strain. I recently read where a 55 year old grandmother is being returned to active duty. This is good. I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance.

You are a sick fuck.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   23:15:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#365. To: Jethro Tull, kyle (#352)

This is good. I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance.

Jethro Tull posted on 2005-04-29 17:58:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

I do not suppose most of them have much of a desire to be in Iraq. They are compelled.

"They Hate Us Because We're Free".

tom007  posted on  2005-04-29   23:20:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#366. To: Kyle (#364)

Bullies need a good beating, Kyle. Get used to it :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   23:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#367. To: SKYDRIFTER, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#363)

Even more alarmingly, the VA revealed that 206,861 veterans, almost a third of G eneral Schwarzkopf's entire army, had filed claims for medical care, compensation, and pension benefits based on injuries and illnesses caused by combat in 1991.

TRANS: Saw a VA doctor for ANY reason at all.

After reviewing the cases, the agency has classified 168,011 applicants as "disabled veterans."

Post the link. This is BS. However, if true, it's WAY less than the 500,000 that your sources claimed. Oops! There goes their credibility. Thanks Skyboy.

DU, or Uranium-238, is a waste product of power-generating nuclear reactors.

BS. It is a byproduct of enrichment of natural uranium.

One study of Gulf War veterans showed that their children had a higher possibility of being born with severe deformities, including missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems, and fused fingers.

Let's see the study, w/ a link. I'll guarantee it's BS. Remember that I posted a New England Journal of Medicine study, from 6 years after GWI, with a sample size of 34,000 births, that found NOTHING.

...the world needs an International Criminal Court and why the United States should be liable under its jurisdiction.

That, and the author (Chalmers Johnson) should be two strong clues as to the bias of this article.

BTW, why bother pinging Lurker? He knows if he comes back, he'll have to face up to his utter failure.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   23:32:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#368. To: Jethro Tull, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#352)

We're getting our asses kicked and it's well deserved. There was a time I actually wanted these guys home, but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming. The Iraqis have us tied down and the all volunteer military is showing signs of severe strain. I recently read where a 55 year old grandmother is being returned to active duty. This is good. I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance.

In case you missed it - Jethro posted the above. Are any of the rest of you guys willing to defend this sick fuck?

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-29   23:34:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#369. To: Jethro Tull (#366)

Bullies need a good beating, Kyle. Get used to it :)

LOL!

Of course its just the loving thing to do

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-29   23:34:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#370. To: Kyle (#364)

You are a sick f**k.

Kyle, after much thought, and given the state of this current government, I’ve reached the conclusion that I’m anti-American. Therefore, I'm not a sick f**k as you suggest, but rather a patriot in the mold of our founders. Please, my hand is extended, won't you join me in my struggle to take this nation back?

Thank you.

cc: Alberto Gonzalez c/o La Raza

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   23:34:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#371. To: Kyle, Jethro Tull, christiene, zipporah, crack monkey, arator (#364)

There was a time I actually wanted these guys home, but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming. T

JT,

I think you need to realize that most of the fellow citizens have little objective understanding of the war's "big picture".

They are put into to groups of men and women, and almost all will quickly adopt the attitudes of the group. This "instinct" to fit in has been explored for thousands of years. When there is not much physical danger or hardship, thinking differently occurs frequently.

When the group is under stress, nearly all will follow the group think, no matter how boneheaded it is.

Very few amoungst us will have the knowledge, vision and then the gumption to tell the group, the course of action they are taking is wrong.

This is not history, it is the human condition, to understand it will illuminate human history.

This is why the girl in the prison in Iraq gleefully tourtured the Iraqi's, her group said it was the thing to do.

Some one said, "If the entire mass of Humanity was to be buried in a colossial grave, the tremendous gravestone would bear the epitath "IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME"

tom007  posted on  2005-04-29   23:35:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#372. To: Kyle (#364)

You are a sick fuck.

Naw. The sick fucks are the ones cheerleading the war. That would be you.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   23:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#373. To: Kyle (#367)

Remember that I posted a New England Journal of Medicine study, from 6 years after GWI, with a sample size of 34,000 births, that found NOTHING.

Remember that I posted a follow-on study with an even larger sample size that didn't limit itself to self-reporting by the VA and the results were somewhat different than what you champion.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-29   23:39:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#374. To: tom007 (#371)

Very few amoungst us will have the knowledge, vision and then the gumption to tell the group, the course of action they are taking is wrong.

I totally agree Tom. Personally, I can no longer stand by and ignore the mindless flag wavers. The country they support has become an evil empire, with designs of global hegemony. I detest it and all those who support it. Let them lose this war, and all other wars they chose to start. That, my friend, will be justice.

cc: Bush #41 & #43

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   23:42:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#375. To: Jethro Tull (#370)

Please, my hand is extended, won't you join me in my struggle to take this nation back?

If you still insist that our troops deserve to be killed, I'll take your hand alright. I'll take it off and beat you to death w/ it.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:00:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#376. To: Kyle (#375)

Kyle, the ass kicking continues....

*** ********

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Insurgents set off at least 17 bombs in Iraq on Friday, killing at least 50 people, including three U.S. soldiers, in a series of attacks aimed at shaking Iraq's newly formed government. An audio tape by one of America's most-wanted insurgents, Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, warned President Bush there was more bloodshed to come

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:02:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#377. To: tom007, Jethro Tull, christiene, zipporah, crack monkey, arator (#371)

I think you need to realize that most of the fellow citizens have little objective understanding of the war's "big picture".

That was a nice inocuous post, but it totally ignored the fact that this asshole likes seeing our troops killed.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:02:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#378. To: Kyle (#375)

you are special

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#379. To: Kyle (#375)

I'll take it off and beat you to death w/ it.

You couldn't beat your tallywacker, you pos :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:03:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#380. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#372)

Naw. The sick fucks are the ones cheerleading the war. That would be you.

So you like seeing our troops killed too. Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:03:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#381. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#373)

Remember that I posted a follow-on study with an even larger sample size that didn't limit itself to self-reporting by the VA and the results were somewhat different than what you champion.

Oh, you mean the one that found slight statistical significance but no causation? ;o)

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:05:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#382. To: Jethro Tull (#374)

Personally, I can no longer stand by and ignore the mindless flag wavers.

I am far from mindless or a flag waver. Apparently you find it necessary to peg me as both to discredit me. You would do better to discredit my facts and argument. Oh, you can't.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:07:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#383. To: Kyle (#377)

That was a nice inocuous post, but it totally ignored the fact that this asshole likes seeing our troops killed.

Kyle posted on 2005-04-30 00:02:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

And you, Kyle, became my thoughtmaster, exactly when?

tom007  posted on  2005-04-30   0:08:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#384. To: Jethro Tull (#376)

Kyle, the ass kicking continues....

And you revel in it. SICK FUCK! Get out of the country.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:08:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#385. To: Kyle (#380)

Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

Ahhh...I consider our troops akin to bungee jumpers. They both know the dangers they face, but do it anyway. Sure, bring the parents here. Let me tell them that Bush killed their kid by lying to the nation. They deserve the truth.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:10:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#386. To: All (#383)

Dont bother to reply. I say this as it does nothing to further the illumination.

tom007  posted on  2005-04-30   0:10:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#387. To: Kyle (#384)

Get out of the country.

Nope. I'm staying. It's you neocon bastards who will be driven out.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:11:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#388. To: Kyle (#384)

And you revel in it. SICK FUCK! Get out of the country.

Which country you mean, weirdo?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#389. To: tom007 (#383)

Kyle is one of those people that reminds me there is a reason doors have locks.

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:14:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#390. To: Dakmar (#388)

And you revel in it. SICK FUCK! Get out of the country.

Which country you mean, weirdo?

Hmm maybe hes just confused and thinks JT lives in the country and wants him to move and become a city dweller?? :P

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   0:18:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#391. To: Jethro Tull, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#385)

Sure, bring the parents here. Let me tell them that Bush killed their kid by lying to the nation.

That's a furious backpedal you're doing. Now, you want to commiserate w/ them over what Bush is doing to their kids. A few minutes ago, you were reveling in their death:

"...but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming."

"I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance."

Apparently you don't have the balls to stick w/ your initial position or the balls to change it. So you weasel. What a pathetic punk you are.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#392. To: Dakmar, tom007 (#389)

Kyle is one of those people that reminds me there is a reason doors have locks.

But you have no problem w/ Jethro's post #?

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:23:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#393. To: Kyle (#391)

I love it when you get mad :)

Let me be clear.

Bad shit happens to invaders.

We are the invaders.

That said, the Iraqis are doing what nationalists do. They are defending their nation.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:24:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#394. To: Kyle (#392)

But you have no problem w/ Jethro's post #?

Jethro isn't promoting statism, you are.

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:25:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#395. To: Kyle (#391)

Kyle, I have a question for you. If you've already answered it I apologize, since I have not read all 400 postings in this thread. My question has to do with the pictures I've seen of horribly deformed babies in Iraq. The claim that has been made is that

1) these births are extremely abnormal and out of the range of statictical normalcy, i.e. there are way more babies being born defective than could ever be explained by natural causes, and that

2) The cause of these birth defects is depleted uranium.

I'd like to know what you think of the birth defects that have been reported, and the reputed cause of these defects. The reason I'm asking is because the pictures I've seen are extremely horrifying, these defects seem to be well outside the realm of anything that could happen naturally in anything more than 1 in 100,000 births, and apparently the rate of these hideously deformed children is much, much higher than that.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2005-04-30   0:29:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#396. To: Kyle (#380)

So you like seeing our troops killed too. Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

No, once again, as usual, you are 100% wrong. I don't like seeing them killed. I would much prefer that they came home and actually started honoring the oath they took to defend the United States.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   0:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#397. To: Kyle (#381)

Oh, you mean the one that found slight statistical significance but no causation?

Go ahead. Play your word games. I'm sure the parents of those troops you mentioned will appreciate your spin when their son or daughter or grandchild is dying. You are one sick fuck.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   0:46:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#398. To: Elliott Jackalope (#395)

these defects seem to be well outside the realm of anything that could happen naturally in anything more than 1 in 100,000 births, and apparently the rate of these hideously deformed children is much, much higher than that.

Actually 'Lope, the norm is a LOT higher than that. Additionally, a lot of that stuff was being purported to be caused by the "sanctions" in the intervening years. I'm willing to believe that any number over the "norm" for Iraq is generally due to malnutrition (lack of stuff like folic acid), which was rampant in areas of Iraq pre war and probably continues to this day.

The test of this will be when, if a semblance of normalcy comes around, these defects taper off rapidly (from the increasing dietary stability), or linger further into the future (which would indicate a persistent environmental factor.

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   0:49:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#399. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#397)

No Buzzcut,

We wait for OVERWHELMING scientific evidence, before we jump on the bandwagon.

You guys hear a sniff of something, and you're ALL over it...

We try to talk sense into you, because the scientific evidence DOES NOT EXIST, but NO, we have to be KOOKS, or sick fucks, because we don't jump at every little red herring that would feed our paranoia.

What is it with you people?

Not happy unless you're afraid of something?

OMG, talk about nuts.....

Wait for ACTUAL OVERWHELMING scientific evidence.

You do the SAME for global warming, and there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people on that bandwagon, what is it about DU that makes it different?

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   0:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#400. To: Axenolith (#398)

OMG, where did you come from? and why do you post on this forum?

You seem to know what you are talking about, didn't you know that that is against the rules here?

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   0:58:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#401. To: Aric2000 (#399)

Hmm yeah talk about nuts.. you want to explain to me why you nor your friend would EVER address Dr. Rokke? Hmm?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   0:59:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#402. To: Aric2000 (#399)

What is it with you people?

************

You do the SAME for global warming

Your sure you reading from the right set of notes, agent orange?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   1:02:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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