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Title: Depleted U - An impromptu interview w/ a Career Tank Specialist
Source: me
URL Source: http://none.com
Published: Apr 27, 2005
Author: Tom007
Post Date: 2005-04-27 22:07:28 by tom007
Keywords: Specialist, impromptu, interview
Views: 2732
Comments: 488

Had an intesting conversation with a man I have known for about 5 months. He delivers to my store, handles alot of cash and is a "straight up" kind of guy. I like him, and I am sure his employer does as well. A steady Eddie man, the kind that makes the country run.

We somehow got talking about the ME, and he mentioned he had been to Egypt, and really did not care for any of it. I asked him how it was that he found himself in the ME and he said he was in the service of the military.

Naturally I wanted to know in what type of service he was in. Well, he was drafted into 'Nam, and did twentyfour years, and tanks were his thing. He started out in a tank designation I did not know of. I know a little about M1A1' and wanted to know some things about them, and the man was very evidently the real deal, no swagger, no he man stories etc. He is who he claims.

After some talk of tactics, guns, how to disable an M1A1, exploding armor, all of which he had the knolwedge of a solider who had spent many years with this type of equipment. He was pretty high up in the system.

Then I asked him about DU. Well turns out he was one of the men on the ground testing it at Aburdeen Proving grounds, shooting various things, like mounds of earth, then digging into it to estimate the ballistics, etc.

Did this many time, and my friend related that one time a DU projectile fragmented into the mound of earth. They were to go dig all the pieces of the remenents out. As he tells me, there was a hole that one of the fragments had made, and as they were poking around, a field mouse was scared up and scampered into that hole made by a fragment.

He just sat back and waited for it to come out-; it didn't. After a few minutes, he saw that it was dead.

He went and got the General of the testing operation, and showed him what he had discovered. The General and his men looked at the situation and told all the testers to go away. For three weeks the site was closed, except to the investigators.

Three weeks later, the investigation was complete. The report said the mouse died of "starvation". My friend looked at me, eye to eye, and laughed. "That mouse damn sure didn't die of starvation", he said emphatically.

He said when the DU rounds hit a tank, he could "see a mushroom cloud", formed (Note, alot of high intensity heat will form a mushroom cloud event).

He said "if you take a giger counter into one of the tanks with DU munitions it will beep like crazy". He said that the explosiom of a DU round into steel was" basically a miniature explosion of a nuclear bomb".

He said they would put goats in the test tanks, and around them. He stated that " for twentyfive meters around the tank, hit by a DU round, all the goats would be dead, ten meters, mangled, turned inside out".

He believed DU dust to be alot more dangerous than the military was allowing.

This man is much more creadible, to me, much more, than the talking hairdoo's reading spin points from the Pentagon.

Draw your own conclusions, this is what I heard today, from a man with incontrovertable creadibility with me. He was there.

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#374. To: tom007 (#371)

Very few amoungst us will have the knowledge, vision and then the gumption to tell the group, the course of action they are taking is wrong.

I totally agree Tom. Personally, I can no longer stand by and ignore the mindless flag wavers. The country they support has become an evil empire, with designs of global hegemony. I detest it and all those who support it. Let them lose this war, and all other wars they chose to start. That, my friend, will be justice.

cc: Bush #41 & #43

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-29   23:42:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#375. To: Jethro Tull (#370)

Please, my hand is extended, won't you join me in my struggle to take this nation back?

If you still insist that our troops deserve to be killed, I'll take your hand alright. I'll take it off and beat you to death w/ it.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:00:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#376. To: Kyle (#375)

Kyle, the ass kicking continues....

*** ********

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Insurgents set off at least 17 bombs in Iraq on Friday, killing at least 50 people, including three U.S. soldiers, in a series of attacks aimed at shaking Iraq's newly formed government. An audio tape by one of America's most-wanted insurgents, Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, warned President Bush there was more bloodshed to come

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:02:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#377. To: tom007, Jethro Tull, christiene, zipporah, crack monkey, arator (#371)

I think you need to realize that most of the fellow citizens have little objective understanding of the war's "big picture".

That was a nice inocuous post, but it totally ignored the fact that this asshole likes seeing our troops killed.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:02:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#378. To: Kyle (#375)

you are special

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#379. To: Kyle (#375)

I'll take it off and beat you to death w/ it.

You couldn't beat your tallywacker, you pos :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:03:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#380. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#372)

Naw. The sick fucks are the ones cheerleading the war. That would be you.

So you like seeing our troops killed too. Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:03:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#381. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#373)

Remember that I posted a follow-on study with an even larger sample size that didn't limit itself to self-reporting by the VA and the results were somewhat different than what you champion.

Oh, you mean the one that found slight statistical significance but no causation? ;o)

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:05:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#382. To: Jethro Tull (#374)

Personally, I can no longer stand by and ignore the mindless flag wavers.

I am far from mindless or a flag waver. Apparently you find it necessary to peg me as both to discredit me. You would do better to discredit my facts and argument. Oh, you can't.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:07:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#383. To: Kyle (#377)

That was a nice inocuous post, but it totally ignored the fact that this asshole likes seeing our troops killed.

Kyle posted on 2005-04-30 00:02:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

And you, Kyle, became my thoughtmaster, exactly when?

tom007  posted on  2005-04-30   0:08:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#384. To: Jethro Tull (#376)

Kyle, the ass kicking continues....

And you revel in it. SICK FUCK! Get out of the country.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:08:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#385. To: Kyle (#380)

Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

Ahhh...I consider our troops akin to bungee jumpers. They both know the dangers they face, but do it anyway. Sure, bring the parents here. Let me tell them that Bush killed their kid by lying to the nation. They deserve the truth.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:10:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#386. To: All (#383)

Dont bother to reply. I say this as it does nothing to further the illumination.

tom007  posted on  2005-04-30   0:10:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#387. To: Kyle (#384)

Get out of the country.

Nope. I'm staying. It's you neocon bastards who will be driven out.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:11:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#388. To: Kyle (#384)

And you revel in it. SICK FUCK! Get out of the country.

Which country you mean, weirdo?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#389. To: tom007 (#383)

Kyle is one of those people that reminds me there is a reason doors have locks.

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:14:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#390. To: Dakmar (#388)

And you revel in it. SICK FUCK! Get out of the country.

Which country you mean, weirdo?

Hmm maybe hes just confused and thinks JT lives in the country and wants him to move and become a city dweller?? :P

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   0:18:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#391. To: Jethro Tull, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#385)

Sure, bring the parents here. Let me tell them that Bush killed their kid by lying to the nation.

That's a furious backpedal you're doing. Now, you want to commiserate w/ them over what Bush is doing to their kids. A few minutes ago, you were reveling in their death:

"...but now I say to those who continue to fight for Bush, stay where you are, your day is coming."

"I pray we continue to lose these young and old warmongers. If they want to be in Iraq, they’re brain dead anyway. Good riddance."

Apparently you don't have the balls to stick w/ your initial position or the balls to change it. So you weasel. What a pathetic punk you are.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#392. To: Dakmar, tom007 (#389)

Kyle is one of those people that reminds me there is a reason doors have locks.

But you have no problem w/ Jethro's post #?

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-30   0:23:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#393. To: Kyle (#391)

I love it when you get mad :)

Let me be clear.

Bad shit happens to invaders.

We are the invaders.

That said, the Iraqis are doing what nationalists do. They are defending their nation.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-04-30   0:24:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#394. To: Kyle (#392)

But you have no problem w/ Jethro's post #?

Jethro isn't promoting statism, you are.

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   0:25:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#395. To: Kyle (#391)

Kyle, I have a question for you. If you've already answered it I apologize, since I have not read all 400 postings in this thread. My question has to do with the pictures I've seen of horribly deformed babies in Iraq. The claim that has been made is that

1) these births are extremely abnormal and out of the range of statictical normalcy, i.e. there are way more babies being born defective than could ever be explained by natural causes, and that

2) The cause of these birth defects is depleted uranium.

I'd like to know what you think of the birth defects that have been reported, and the reputed cause of these defects. The reason I'm asking is because the pictures I've seen are extremely horrifying, these defects seem to be well outside the realm of anything that could happen naturally in anything more than 1 in 100,000 births, and apparently the rate of these hideously deformed children is much, much higher than that.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2005-04-30   0:29:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#396. To: Kyle (#380)

So you like seeing our troops killed too. Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

No, once again, as usual, you are 100% wrong. I don't like seeing them killed. I would much prefer that they came home and actually started honoring the oath they took to defend the United States.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   0:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#397. To: Kyle (#381)

Oh, you mean the one that found slight statistical significance but no causation?

Go ahead. Play your word games. I'm sure the parents of those troops you mentioned will appreciate your spin when their son or daughter or grandchild is dying. You are one sick fuck.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   0:46:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#398. To: Elliott Jackalope (#395)

these defects seem to be well outside the realm of anything that could happen naturally in anything more than 1 in 100,000 births, and apparently the rate of these hideously deformed children is much, much higher than that.

Actually 'Lope, the norm is a LOT higher than that. Additionally, a lot of that stuff was being purported to be caused by the "sanctions" in the intervening years. I'm willing to believe that any number over the "norm" for Iraq is generally due to malnutrition (lack of stuff like folic acid), which was rampant in areas of Iraq pre war and probably continues to this day.

The test of this will be when, if a semblance of normalcy comes around, these defects taper off rapidly (from the increasing dietary stability), or linger further into the future (which would indicate a persistent environmental factor.

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   0:49:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#399. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#397)

No Buzzcut,

We wait for OVERWHELMING scientific evidence, before we jump on the bandwagon.

You guys hear a sniff of something, and you're ALL over it...

We try to talk sense into you, because the scientific evidence DOES NOT EXIST, but NO, we have to be KOOKS, or sick fucks, because we don't jump at every little red herring that would feed our paranoia.

What is it with you people?

Not happy unless you're afraid of something?

OMG, talk about nuts.....

Wait for ACTUAL OVERWHELMING scientific evidence.

You do the SAME for global warming, and there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people on that bandwagon, what is it about DU that makes it different?

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   0:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#400. To: Axenolith (#398)

OMG, where did you come from? and why do you post on this forum?

You seem to know what you are talking about, didn't you know that that is against the rules here?

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   0:58:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#401. To: Aric2000 (#399)

Hmm yeah talk about nuts.. you want to explain to me why you nor your friend would EVER address Dr. Rokke? Hmm?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   0:59:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#402. To: Aric2000 (#399)

What is it with you people?

************

You do the SAME for global warming

Your sure you reading from the right set of notes, agent orange?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   1:02:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#403. To: Axenolith (#398)

Actually 'Lope, the norm is a LOT higher than that. Additionally, a lot of that stuff was being purported to be caused by the "sanctions" in the intervening years. I'm willing to believe that any number over the "norm" for Iraq is generally due to malnutrition (lack of stuff like folic acid), which was rampant in areas of Iraq pre war and probably continues to this day.

Malnutrition could be part of the cause.. due to the sanctions as well as malnutrition since the invasion which has worsened.. but would it cause 3 Xs the number of deformaties since the Gulf War as prior?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   1:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#404. To: Axenolith (#398)

I'm willing to believe that any number over the "norm" for Iraq is generally due to malnutrition (lack of stuff like folic acid), which was rampant in areas of Iraq pre war and probably continues to this day.

On that point I have to disagree, because I've seen tons and tons of pictures of starving children in Africa, and while they look tragic, they don't look like visions of Dante's Inferno as filtered through a bad acid trip. Children who are starving or who are born to starving people look thin and/or bloated. The Iraqi children I've seen are missing little things like their faces, or they have one big eye in the center of their forehead, or just a big hole in the middle of their head where a face should be, or their guts grew on the outside of their bodies. That's not malnutrition, that's something far more sinister.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2005-04-30   1:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#405. To: Elliott Jackalope (#404)

According to Dr. Rokke:

"The use of DU has also led to birth defects in the children of Allied veterans and is believed to be the cause of the 'worrying number of anophthalmos cases -- babies born without eyes' in Iraq.

Only one in 50 million births should be anophthalmic, yet one Baghdad hospital had eight cases in just two years. Seven of the fathers had been exposed to American DU anti-tank rounds in 1991.

A study of Gulf War veterans showed that 67% had children with severe illnesses, missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems and fused fingers."

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   1:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#406. To: Aric2000 (#399)

We wait for OVERWHELMING scientific evidence, before we jump on the bandwagon.

Yeah, heck why not? It's only the lives of people that are sacrificed to your lust for war. And that agent orange thing worked out okay after all, right?

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   1:12:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#407. To: Aric2000 (#400)

OMG, where did you come from? and why do you post on this forum?

You seem to know what you are talking about, didn't you know that that is against the rules here?

OMG maybe I should ask you the same question.. why do you post on this forum? Hmm well if you think not knowing what you are talking about is a criteria for being here..then that must be why you're here..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   1:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#408. To: Elliott Jackalope (#404)

I'm talking malnutrition in-utero. An example, lack of folic acid is a big cause of birth defects (Neural Tube Defects - Spina bifida and anacephalopy), so much so that it's inclusion in some foods as a suppliment is mandatory here I believe.

Those defects from that specific deficiency are also some of the most visually disturbing. The general nutritional situation in Iraq has not been good for a long time for many groups, it stands to reason that the generally higher rate there is most probably due to this.

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   2:26:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#409. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#406)

Yeah, heck why not? It's only the lives of people that are sacrificed to your lust for war. And that agent orange thing worked out okay after all, right?

NOT EVEN worth a response...

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   2:42:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#410. To: Zipporah (#407)

See 409.... OMG, you people are just nuts...

That is probably why I am here, just like a car wreck, it is just hard not to look....

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   2:43:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#411. To: Zipporah (#403)

but would it cause 3 Xs the number of deformaties since the Gulf War as prior?

That would be dependant on a number of factors that need to be determined. The before and after rate, the general pollutant load over X time in an area that appears to be suffering from an increase, even the amount of stress that expectant mothers are exposed to.

It's entirely possible that something like DU could add, say, a case or two to a tally in the hundreds, but there are to many nasty things floating around industrial civilization (especially when you blow them up, burn them, or stir a lot of people up and they end up poking around in it where they normally wouldn't be) that would really create birth mayhem if you exposed a lot of people to them.

Generally, there are three chromosomal or cellular effects of chemicals; Mutagenic (causes genetic damage to egg and sperm that manifests itself in subsequent generations), Teratogenic (causes damage-defects in the foetus during the developement) and Carcinogenic (causes cellular damage resulting in tumors-cancer).

If I had to rank DU in terms of it's greatest potential threat out of those 3, I'd pick cancer.

Something did just come to mind with respect to mutations and defects, If any of those people lived around an area destroyed which had any type of biological research facility, the shit they use to chop DNA could have been released in small quantities and it would probably present defects and physical manifestations in mature people. My wife used to work at Cetus (pre-Chiron) and she said they had outrageous chemicals for PCR and gene sequencing, shit that, if ou got it on you, you WERE going to get cancer or tumors, no ifs-ands or buts about it...

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   3:04:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#412. To: Aric2000 (#400)

The Market Wrapup Crew is in effect here now ;-)

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   3:05:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#413. To: All (#412)

BTW

Gotta work tomorrow... Must sleep... Back soon...

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   3:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#414. To: Aric2000 (#409)

NOT EVEN worth a response...

Because you have no response. You are convicted. The lives of the dead stand as a testament to your putrid blood lust.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   3:20:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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