Freedom4um

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Health
See other Health Articles

Title: Depleted U - An impromptu interview w/ a Career Tank Specialist
Source: me
URL Source: http://none.com
Published: Apr 27, 2005
Author: Tom007
Post Date: 2005-04-27 22:07:28 by tom007
Keywords: Specialist, impromptu, interview
Views: 1999
Comments: 488

Had an intesting conversation with a man I have known for about 5 months. He delivers to my store, handles alot of cash and is a "straight up" kind of guy. I like him, and I am sure his employer does as well. A steady Eddie man, the kind that makes the country run.

We somehow got talking about the ME, and he mentioned he had been to Egypt, and really did not care for any of it. I asked him how it was that he found himself in the ME and he said he was in the service of the military.

Naturally I wanted to know in what type of service he was in. Well, he was drafted into 'Nam, and did twentyfour years, and tanks were his thing. He started out in a tank designation I did not know of. I know a little about M1A1' and wanted to know some things about them, and the man was very evidently the real deal, no swagger, no he man stories etc. He is who he claims.

After some talk of tactics, guns, how to disable an M1A1, exploding armor, all of which he had the knolwedge of a solider who had spent many years with this type of equipment. He was pretty high up in the system.

Then I asked him about DU. Well turns out he was one of the men on the ground testing it at Aburdeen Proving grounds, shooting various things, like mounds of earth, then digging into it to estimate the ballistics, etc.

Did this many time, and my friend related that one time a DU projectile fragmented into the mound of earth. They were to go dig all the pieces of the remenents out. As he tells me, there was a hole that one of the fragments had made, and as they were poking around, a field mouse was scared up and scampered into that hole made by a fragment.

He just sat back and waited for it to come out-; it didn't. After a few minutes, he saw that it was dead.

He went and got the General of the testing operation, and showed him what he had discovered. The General and his men looked at the situation and told all the testers to go away. For three weeks the site was closed, except to the investigators.

Three weeks later, the investigation was complete. The report said the mouse died of "starvation". My friend looked at me, eye to eye, and laughed. "That mouse damn sure didn't die of starvation", he said emphatically.

He said when the DU rounds hit a tank, he could "see a mushroom cloud", formed (Note, alot of high intensity heat will form a mushroom cloud event).

He said "if you take a giger counter into one of the tanks with DU munitions it will beep like crazy". He said that the explosiom of a DU round into steel was" basically a miniature explosion of a nuclear bomb".

He said they would put goats in the test tanks, and around them. He stated that " for twentyfive meters around the tank, hit by a DU round, all the goats would be dead, ten meters, mangled, turned inside out".

He believed DU dust to be alot more dangerous than the military was allowing.

This man is much more creadible, to me, much more, than the talking hairdoo's reading spin points from the Pentagon.

Draw your own conclusions, this is what I heard today, from a man with incontrovertable creadibility with me. He was there.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-395) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#396. To: Kyle (#380)

So you like seeing our troops killed too. Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

No, once again, as usual, you are 100% wrong. I don't like seeing them killed. I would much prefer that they came home and actually started honoring the oath they took to defend the United States.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   0:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#397. To: Kyle (#381)

Oh, you mean the one that found slight statistical significance but no causation?

Go ahead. Play your word games. I'm sure the parents of those troops you mentioned will appreciate your spin when their son or daughter or grandchild is dying. You are one sick fuck.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   0:46:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#398. To: Elliott Jackalope (#395)

these defects seem to be well outside the realm of anything that could happen naturally in anything more than 1 in 100,000 births, and apparently the rate of these hideously deformed children is much, much higher than that.

Actually 'Lope, the norm is a LOT higher than that. Additionally, a lot of that stuff was being purported to be caused by the "sanctions" in the intervening years. I'm willing to believe that any number over the "norm" for Iraq is generally due to malnutrition (lack of stuff like folic acid), which was rampant in areas of Iraq pre war and probably continues to this day.

The test of this will be when, if a semblance of normalcy comes around, these defects taper off rapidly (from the increasing dietary stability), or linger further into the future (which would indicate a persistent environmental factor.

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   0:49:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#399. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#397)

No Buzzcut,

We wait for OVERWHELMING scientific evidence, before we jump on the bandwagon.

You guys hear a sniff of something, and you're ALL over it...

We try to talk sense into you, because the scientific evidence DOES NOT EXIST, but NO, we have to be KOOKS, or sick fucks, because we don't jump at every little red herring that would feed our paranoia.

What is it with you people?

Not happy unless you're afraid of something?

OMG, talk about nuts.....

Wait for ACTUAL OVERWHELMING scientific evidence.

You do the SAME for global warming, and there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people on that bandwagon, what is it about DU that makes it different?

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   0:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#400. To: Axenolith (#398)

OMG, where did you come from? and why do you post on this forum?

You seem to know what you are talking about, didn't you know that that is against the rules here?

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   0:58:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#401. To: Aric2000 (#399)

Hmm yeah talk about nuts.. you want to explain to me why you nor your friend would EVER address Dr. Rokke? Hmm?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   0:59:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#402. To: Aric2000 (#399)

What is it with you people?

************

You do the SAME for global warming

Your sure you reading from the right set of notes, agent orange?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-04-30   1:02:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#403. To: Axenolith (#398)

Actually 'Lope, the norm is a LOT higher than that. Additionally, a lot of that stuff was being purported to be caused by the "sanctions" in the intervening years. I'm willing to believe that any number over the "norm" for Iraq is generally due to malnutrition (lack of stuff like folic acid), which was rampant in areas of Iraq pre war and probably continues to this day.

Malnutrition could be part of the cause.. due to the sanctions as well as malnutrition since the invasion which has worsened.. but would it cause 3 Xs the number of deformaties since the Gulf War as prior?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   1:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#404. To: Axenolith (#398)

I'm willing to believe that any number over the "norm" for Iraq is generally due to malnutrition (lack of stuff like folic acid), which was rampant in areas of Iraq pre war and probably continues to this day.

On that point I have to disagree, because I've seen tons and tons of pictures of starving children in Africa, and while they look tragic, they don't look like visions of Dante's Inferno as filtered through a bad acid trip. Children who are starving or who are born to starving people look thin and/or bloated. The Iraqi children I've seen are missing little things like their faces, or they have one big eye in the center of their forehead, or just a big hole in the middle of their head where a face should be, or their guts grew on the outside of their bodies. That's not malnutrition, that's something far more sinister.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2005-04-30   1:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#405. To: Elliott Jackalope (#404)

According to Dr. Rokke:

"The use of DU has also led to birth defects in the children of Allied veterans and is believed to be the cause of the 'worrying number of anophthalmos cases -- babies born without eyes' in Iraq.

Only one in 50 million births should be anophthalmic, yet one Baghdad hospital had eight cases in just two years. Seven of the fathers had been exposed to American DU anti-tank rounds in 1991.

A study of Gulf War veterans showed that 67% had children with severe illnesses, missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems and fused fingers."

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   1:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#406. To: Aric2000 (#399)

We wait for OVERWHELMING scientific evidence, before we jump on the bandwagon.

Yeah, heck why not? It's only the lives of people that are sacrificed to your lust for war. And that agent orange thing worked out okay after all, right?

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   1:12:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#407. To: Aric2000 (#400)

OMG, where did you come from? and why do you post on this forum?

You seem to know what you are talking about, didn't you know that that is against the rules here?

OMG maybe I should ask you the same question.. why do you post on this forum? Hmm well if you think not knowing what you are talking about is a criteria for being here..then that must be why you're here..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   1:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#408. To: Elliott Jackalope (#404)

I'm talking malnutrition in-utero. An example, lack of folic acid is a big cause of birth defects (Neural Tube Defects - Spina bifida and anacephalopy), so much so that it's inclusion in some foods as a suppliment is mandatory here I believe.

Those defects from that specific deficiency are also some of the most visually disturbing. The general nutritional situation in Iraq has not been good for a long time for many groups, it stands to reason that the generally higher rate there is most probably due to this.

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   2:26:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#409. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#406)

Yeah, heck why not? It's only the lives of people that are sacrificed to your lust for war. And that agent orange thing worked out okay after all, right?

NOT EVEN worth a response...

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   2:42:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#410. To: Zipporah (#407)

See 409.... OMG, you people are just nuts...

That is probably why I am here, just like a car wreck, it is just hard not to look....

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   2:43:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#411. To: Zipporah (#403)

but would it cause 3 Xs the number of deformaties since the Gulf War as prior?

That would be dependant on a number of factors that need to be determined. The before and after rate, the general pollutant load over X time in an area that appears to be suffering from an increase, even the amount of stress that expectant mothers are exposed to.

It's entirely possible that something like DU could add, say, a case or two to a tally in the hundreds, but there are to many nasty things floating around industrial civilization (especially when you blow them up, burn them, or stir a lot of people up and they end up poking around in it where they normally wouldn't be) that would really create birth mayhem if you exposed a lot of people to them.

Generally, there are three chromosomal or cellular effects of chemicals; Mutagenic (causes genetic damage to egg and sperm that manifests itself in subsequent generations), Teratogenic (causes damage-defects in the foetus during the developement) and Carcinogenic (causes cellular damage resulting in tumors-cancer).

If I had to rank DU in terms of it's greatest potential threat out of those 3, I'd pick cancer.

Something did just come to mind with respect to mutations and defects, If any of those people lived around an area destroyed which had any type of biological research facility, the shit they use to chop DNA could have been released in small quantities and it would probably present defects and physical manifestations in mature people. My wife used to work at Cetus (pre-Chiron) and she said they had outrageous chemicals for PCR and gene sequencing, shit that, if ou got it on you, you WERE going to get cancer or tumors, no ifs-ands or buts about it...

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   3:04:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#412. To: Aric2000 (#400)

The Market Wrapup Crew is in effect here now ;-)

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   3:05:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#413. To: All (#412)

BTW

Gotta work tomorrow... Must sleep... Back soon...

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-30   3:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#414. To: Aric2000 (#409)

NOT EVEN worth a response...

Because you have no response. You are convicted. The lives of the dead stand as a testament to your putrid blood lust.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-04-30   3:20:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#415. To: Kyle, FormerLurker, sfvgto, tom007, duckhunter, BrerRabbit, swarthguy, xUSMC0311, Bill D Berger, honway, Aric2000, BeAChooser (#367)

Let's see the study, w/ a link. I'll guarantee it's BS.

Kyle,

If you're stupid enough to state that the radiation was all removed from the U-238 DU, and ignorant enough to NOT understand the term "Half-life;" your opinion is shit!

(Old news, of course.)


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-04-30   9:56:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#416. To: Axenolith (#411)

Generally, there are three chromosomal or cellular effects of chemicals; Mutagenic (causes genetic damage to egg and sperm that manifests itself in subsequent generations), Teratogenic (causes damage-defects in the foetus during the developement) and Carcinogenic (causes cellular damage resulting in tumors-cancer).

If I had to rank DU in terms of it's greatest potential threat out of those 3, I'd pick cancer.

Something did just come to mind with respect to mutations and defects, If any of those people lived around an area destroyed which had any type of biological research facility, the shit they use to chop DNA could have been released in small quantities and it would probably present defects and physical manifestations in mature people. My wife used to work at Cetus (pre-Chiron) and she said they had outrageous chemicals for PCR and gene sequencing, shit that, if ou got it on you, you WERE going to get cancer or tumors, no ifs-ands or buts about it...

Thanks..for the explanation, particularly from someone who is a scientist and is not in the industry and doesn't have some self serving interest.

Now according to this study re Desert Storm "350 metric tons of DU were used in Operation Desert Storm as armor-penetrating ammunition with an estimated amount of 3-6 million grams of DU released into the atmosphere".. Mutagenic properties of DU is what Dr. Rokke and others have addressed regarding both Iraqis and soldiers w/Gulf War syndome and Balkan syndrome, that being said you had mentioned malnutrition i.e. folic acid causing birth defects which typically are defects such as cleft palate and spina bifida but seems the Iraqi children being born with deformaties are much more severe.. and secondly, the children of soldiers returning from the war are showing similar deformaties.. which would discount the malnutrition factor. Also.. in regard to the sanctions being a part of the problem re malnutrition:

"According to Dr Nawar Ali, at the University of Baghdad, who works in the newborn babies research department, a significant number of cases of deformed babies had been reported since 2003.

“There have been 650 cases in total since August 2003 reported in government hospitals - that is a 20 percent increase from the previous regime. Private hospitals were not included in the study, so the number could be higher,” Ali warned."

So.. taking this into consideration, would this not point to mutagenic properties of DU or is my conclusion incorrect?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   11:14:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#417. To: Aric2000 (#410)

See 409.... OMG, you people are just nuts...

That is probably why I am here, just like a car wreck, it is just hard not to look....

You know.. there are fools and there are damned fools and you can be catagorized as the latter.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   11:15:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#418. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut, All (#396)

So you like seeing our troops killed too. Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

That statement is an OUTRAGE. I am SICK AS HELL of hearing Bushistas telling the rest of us that we "hate Americans" or are "blood dancers". It is so obvious that those who are against the war are against it because we DON'T want to see Americans (and others) die. This is typical Bush-speak: black is white, up is down, patriots are traitors, conservatives are liberals, war is peace, freedom is slavery.

Bush supporters are the true anti-Americans!!

h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t  posted on  2005-04-30   12:45:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#419. To: Kyle (#375)

I'll take it off and beat you to death w/ it.

Bush supporters are not just stupid and sheeplike; apparently they are dangerous, too. Sick, dumb, animals.

h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t  posted on  2005-04-30   12:48:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#420. To: h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t, Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#418)

Kyle: So you like seeing our troops killed too. Mind if I bring some parents of soldiers to this thread, scum?

Quite a non-sequitur.

Bush supporters are the true anti-Americans!!

BRING 'EM HOME!

robin  posted on  2005-04-30   12:49:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#421. To: Aric2000 (#410)

OMG, you people are just nuts...

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

After a while, your desperation to keep people from seeing the truth just becomes tawdry and sad. "Nuts"... better look to your own mental health before you start worrying about others'.

h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t  posted on  2005-04-30   12:53:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#422. To: robin (#420)

Yeah, and we KNOW what the parents of many of the soldiers really think of this fraudulent war. Typical of Kyle to want to use them, instead of trying to understand the horrible position this administration has put them in, after killing their children.

DRAFT THE TWINS!!!

h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t  posted on  2005-04-30   12:56:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#423. To: h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t (#418)

That statement is an OUTRAGE. I am SICK AS HELL of hearing Bushistas telling the rest of us that we "hate Americans" or are "blood dancers".

Kyle doesn't give a shit about America.

He's a goober who got suckered in by Bush's propaganda a couple of years ago and he's made a fool of himself marching to the party drum.

Kyle really doesn't give a shit about America, Kyle's main goal is to obscure the hard facts that make his prior statements look idiotic.

Kyle doesn't care if a large number of American soldiers get killed in the process. What is important to Kyle is Kyle's silly little ego.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-30   13:08:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#424. To: h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t (#422)

Something along those lines would make a good bumper sticker.

"Bring 'em home! Send the Twins"

At the very least they could provide some OSO entertainment as dancers.
Especially after having made the video disappear (from the NYPost):
The White House can relax. You may have heard about the videotape that allegedly showed thong-baring Jenna Bush down on all fours and doing Da Butt dance at club NerveAna. We're told that the tape, which every print and electronic tabloid wanted, has mysteriously disappeared...

robin  posted on  2005-04-30   13:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#425. To: All (#424)

Oh, and in case someone runs across that that video, we do have an extra $30K laying around ... tips@washingtonsocialites.com.
This posted by Kelly Ann Collins at 3:00 PM

robin  posted on  2005-04-30   13:21:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#426. To: robin (#424)

We're told that the tape, which every print and electronic tabloid wanted, has mysteriously disappeared...

Whaddya want to bet Mary and Lynne Cheney bought up every copy?

h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t  posted on  2005-04-30   13:22:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#427. To: crack monkey (#423)

Kyle doesn't care if a large number of American soldiers get killed in the process. What is important to Kyle is Kyle's silly little ego.

And after all, what importance do the lives of those nobodies have, in comparison with the preservation of the mighty egos of Kyle and Trash-zipcode?

h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t  posted on  2005-04-30   13:25:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#428. To: h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t (#419)

Bush supporters are not just stupid and sheeplike; apparently they are dangerous, too. Sick, dumb, animals.

A little bird has told me that Kyle has gone the way of all integrity challenged lying little shitballs.

Given this, he won't be able to answer you.

But I'm sure he's reading this however, so I wouldn't want to discourage you from taking a pot shot at him.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-30   13:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#429. To: h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t (#426)

We're told that the tape, which every print and electronic tabloid wanted, has mysteriously disappeared...

Whaddya want to bet Mary and Lynne Cheney bought up every copy?

Note post 425's link, Kelly Ann appears to be offering another reward, like the one for Gannon.

robin  posted on  2005-04-30   13:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#430. To: crack monkey (#428)

A little bird has told me that Kyle has gone the way of all integrity challenged lying little shitballs.

Kneeling in a ditch sniveling while awaiting the inevitable bullet to the back of the head?

Esso  posted on  2005-04-30   13:44:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#431. To: Zipporah (#417)

You know.. there are fools and there are damned fools and you can be catagorized as the latter.

I am neither, but I watch quite a few of both here....

So, money is not a motivation for me when I say the DU scare is a load of shit.

Dr. Rokke has MUCH money to be made if he can convince enough people that INDEED, DU is dangerous. LOADS of it, because the US government will get blamed, will be sued, and some stupid idiots on a Jury will declare them guilty and a massive amount of money will be awarded, and guess who will get a piece of that action?

The doctor that made it ALL possible.

So to say that your "expert" is some lily white, neutral man with a professional opinion, tells me that you are blind to such things as long as it matches your prejudices.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   21:26:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#432. To: Zipporah (#417)

You know.. there are fools and there are damned fools and you can be catagorized as the latter.

And what does that make me???????

=0)

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-04-30   21:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#433. To: Aric2000 (#431)

am neither, but I watch quite a few of both here....

So, money is not a motivation for me when I say the DU scare is a load of shit.

Dr. Rokke has MUCH money to be made if he can convince enough people that INDEED, DU is dangerous. LOADS of it, because the US government will get blamed, will be sued, and some stupid idiots on a Jury will declare them guilty and a massive amount of money will be awarded, and guess who will get a piece of that action?

The doctor that made it ALL possible.

So to say that your "expert" is some lily white, neutral man with a professional opinion, tells me that you are blind to such things as long as it matches your prejudices.

Oh really? Your 'friend' certainly has prejudices and they are tied to money.. have you taken the time to see WHO Dr. Rokke is.. and if you think it's about money for him you are sadly mistaken..

You believe I have prejudices regarding DU or anything else.. you dont know jack shit about me.. I was blind to all the bullshit you are blind to.. and I wised up.. something you may think about trying to do.. instead of calling people on this site NUTS.. well guess what if you think everyone here is nuts..and want to watch as you put it a 'train wreck'.. and that is all the input you have maybe that is what you should do.. just watch..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   21:33:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#434. To: h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t (#421)

Desperation?

I am desperate to convince a bunch of paranoid fools without a clue that what they are dioung is scaremongering, and NOT scientifically valid in any way shape or form.

You are in more danger from Radon gas in your own fricking house, then you are from DU on a battlefield, unless of course you are the intended target of such munitions.

You people are scaremongering on NO evidence, and the words of a doctor who is bound and determined that he is going to create a class action lawsuit that will make he and the lawyers a SHITLOAD of money, and the sad thing is, it's ALL BULLSHIT. The US government, which means US, because it is our tax money that will pay for it, is going to put out a shitload of money, to a bunch of victims that are NOT the victims of what they claim to be victims of.

DU is NOT the problem, something else is creating the Birth defects etc, and as long as they are concentrating so hard on DU, then they fail to find the TRUE cause and possibly fix it.

They fixate on DU, because the US government can be blamed, and has DEEP pockets.

How will you sue the Saddam government for releasing dangerous chemicals into the environment via their chemical and biological programs, that government no longer exists.

YOU MUST FIND A BOOGEY MAN THAT CAN BE USED TO COUGH UP CASH.

You ALL have been suckered, just as millions more will be by a propaganda machine that wants Our tax dollars, and will do and say anything, INCLUDING BS THAT DU WILL CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS ETC, to get their hands on that cash.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-30   21:33:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#435. To: Esso (#430)

Kneeling in a ditch sniveling while awaiting the inevitable bullet to the back of the head?

Banished to the great beyond for unethical posting.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-30   21:39:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#436. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#432)

And what does that make me???????

=0)

Its not a either or .. LOL.. just applies to a select few.. :P

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-30   21:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (437 - 488) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest