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Title: Depleted U - An impromptu interview w/ a Career Tank Specialist
Source: me
URL Source: http://none.com
Published: Apr 27, 2005
Author: Tom007
Post Date: 2005-04-27 22:07:28 by tom007
Keywords: Specialist, impromptu, interview
Views: 2804
Comments: 488

Had an intesting conversation with a man I have known for about 5 months. He delivers to my store, handles alot of cash and is a "straight up" kind of guy. I like him, and I am sure his employer does as well. A steady Eddie man, the kind that makes the country run.

We somehow got talking about the ME, and he mentioned he had been to Egypt, and really did not care for any of it. I asked him how it was that he found himself in the ME and he said he was in the service of the military.

Naturally I wanted to know in what type of service he was in. Well, he was drafted into 'Nam, and did twentyfour years, and tanks were his thing. He started out in a tank designation I did not know of. I know a little about M1A1' and wanted to know some things about them, and the man was very evidently the real deal, no swagger, no he man stories etc. He is who he claims.

After some talk of tactics, guns, how to disable an M1A1, exploding armor, all of which he had the knolwedge of a solider who had spent many years with this type of equipment. He was pretty high up in the system.

Then I asked him about DU. Well turns out he was one of the men on the ground testing it at Aburdeen Proving grounds, shooting various things, like mounds of earth, then digging into it to estimate the ballistics, etc.

Did this many time, and my friend related that one time a DU projectile fragmented into the mound of earth. They were to go dig all the pieces of the remenents out. As he tells me, there was a hole that one of the fragments had made, and as they were poking around, a field mouse was scared up and scampered into that hole made by a fragment.

He just sat back and waited for it to come out-; it didn't. After a few minutes, he saw that it was dead.

He went and got the General of the testing operation, and showed him what he had discovered. The General and his men looked at the situation and told all the testers to go away. For three weeks the site was closed, except to the investigators.

Three weeks later, the investigation was complete. The report said the mouse died of "starvation". My friend looked at me, eye to eye, and laughed. "That mouse damn sure didn't die of starvation", he said emphatically.

He said when the DU rounds hit a tank, he could "see a mushroom cloud", formed (Note, alot of high intensity heat will form a mushroom cloud event).

He said "if you take a giger counter into one of the tanks with DU munitions it will beep like crazy". He said that the explosiom of a DU round into steel was" basically a miniature explosion of a nuclear bomb".

He said they would put goats in the test tanks, and around them. He stated that " for twentyfive meters around the tank, hit by a DU round, all the goats would be dead, ten meters, mangled, turned inside out".

He believed DU dust to be alot more dangerous than the military was allowing.

This man is much more creadible, to me, much more, than the talking hairdoo's reading spin points from the Pentagon.

Draw your own conclusions, this is what I heard today, from a man with incontrovertable creadibility with me. He was there.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 55.

#8. To: tom007 (#0)

My best guess is that the DU dust is physically toxic metal, similar to inhaling cyanide dust. It's not that much to do with the radiation.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-04-28   1:53:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: SKYDRIFTER (#8)

The basic gist of this is...

Lead used as a projectile is JUST as big a deal as DU being used as a projectile.

The only reason that DU is such a big deal, is because it has Uranium in the name, and they can create a huge public problem with it.

It is just as dangerous as lead is, BUT, that is it....

SO, if you are going to freak out about DU, then you had better freak out about lead as well, otherwise, forget about it.....

Aric2000  posted on  2005-04-28   2:17:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Aric2000, Zipporah (#10)

According to Dr. Rokke, DU is not purely DU, but is chocked full of other byproducts from nuclear fission, including highly radioactive elements.

It's basically low grade radioactive waste. Nothing to worry about, I'm sure. < /sarcasm >

Arator  posted on  2005-04-28   9:13:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Arator, Aric2000, Zipporah, SKYDRIFTER (#13)

According to Dr. Rokke, DU is not purely DU, but is chocked full of other byproducts from nuclear fission, including highly radioactive elements.

It's basically low grade radioactive waste.

Whoever this Dr. Rokke is, their wrong. Aric2000 has it right, but actually overstated the problem. Lead is more chemically toxic than DU and DU is far less than 1/2 as radioactive as natural (3% U235) uranium. The half life of U238 is in the billions of years, so its decay rate is extremely low.

The radioactive waste remark is ludicrously off base. Even if the DU were made from radioactive waste (which it isn't; it's made from natural uranium ores as a byproduct of enrichment), other radioative isotopes could not be present because of the process used.

Uranium is reacted with fluorine to produce uranium hexafluoride gas. At this point, most other radioactive elements are exclude because they don't react with fluorine under the same conditions.

Then the gas is centrifuged over and over and over to separate the U238 and the U235 based on the slight difference in density. Any other gaseous radioactive compounds that MIGHT be present would have densities so low that they would all be separated out with the U235. This is purely theoretical because, in practice, they don't exist.

The gas is converted back into nearly pure U238. The only contaminate possible is residual U235, but the level is monitored closely.

Because DU comes from natural uranium and because of the production process and the monitoring of U235 levels, the resultant DU poses less of a radioactive risk than other natural and man-made sources.

Kyle  posted on  2005-04-28   10:08:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Kyle (#16)

It's not necessarily about radiation, dip-shit! It's about metabolizing the ingested material. Similar to the ingestion of minute quantities of Cyanide.

Who are you to question an MD? I thought you lived & breathed for authority?


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-04-28   13:22:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: SKYDRIFTER (#49)

It's not necessarily about radiation, dip-shit! It's about metabolizing the ingested material. Similar to the ingestion of minute quantities of Cyanide.

This is true. I was told in chemestry class that all heavy metals are poisonous in a similar manner. Mercury, lead, etc. The explanation I heard is that we have no good mechanism for cleaning them from our system and that they destroy emzines necessary for life. Constant low level exposure to anything from that region of the periodic table builds up in our systems and is eventually toxic.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   13:32:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: crack monkey (#52)

The problem is that if the DU is as dangerous as I fear it is; there are going to be about 150,000 GIs waiting to die a horrible death; with the rest living in terror of delayed symptoms.

That with Bush cutting the VA benefits.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-04-28   13:38:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: SKYDRIFTER (#54)

with the rest living in terror of delayed symptoms

This is what you get with lead and mercury and some of the more exotic heavy metals.

Another problem is that the symptoms arn't well quantified for anything except lead and mercury. Here the variation in symptoms are understood because large numbers of people have been exposed and studied over long periods of time.

With DU, some of the effects might not even be recognized yet. The stuff has only been used for a very short time. For all we know it could be similar to asbestos - everyone gets sick after a certain minimum exposure, but sometimes the symptoms take 20 years to appear.

I think this danger to our troops and to the population should be balanced against the fact that we really don't need the stuff in Iraq. I recall the Uranium shells and sabots being developed for long range tank battles with the Russians. Nothing like that is taking place in Iraq. I would like to know what the uranium shells accomplish that can't be accomplished with normal ammo?

crack monkey  posted on  2005-04-28   13:46:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 55.

#57. To: crack monkey (#55)

Oh and btw they're looking at replacing DU shells with an alternative.. sounds like a great idea?? uh huh..

'Safe' alternative to uranium shells

CONTROVERSIAL anti-tank shells tipped with depleted uranium may be phased out if an alternative material proves its worth. The US Army is expected to award a contract this week for the manufacture of prototype ammunition incorporating a "liquid metal" alloy. The new rounds could be in service within two years.

Campaigners have complained for years about the potential health effects of DU - it has been linked to everything from Gulf War syndrome to birth defects. But the health connection is disputed and the military defends its use of DU. All the same, the US Army's Tank-automotive and Armaments Command is looking for alternatives in case political pressures force it to abandon DU.

DU has been the material of choice for anti-tank ammunition since the 1970s because it has twice the density of lead. And it has two key advantages over pure tungsten, which has a similar density. Tungsten shells ...

Zipporah  posted on  2005-04-28 13:55:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#265. To: crack monkey (#55)

I would like to know what the uranium shells accomplish that can't be accomplished with normal ammo?

Tungsten has been used since the second world war as a penetrator, it's a little less dense and I don't think it has the pyrophoric properties. It's as toxic, or more so, than DU in a finely divided state and it's what everyone else in the world uses...

Axenolith  posted on  2005-04-29 00:08:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 55.

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