Title: 9/11 Truth: Steven Jones on WTC 7 and Controlled Demolition Source:
9/11 Truth conference URL Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJQ2yZfTY0 Published:Feb 20, 2007 Author:Steven Jones Post Date:2007-02-20 00:41:08 by robin Ping List:*9-11*Subscribe to *9-11* Keywords:None Views:13552 Comments:230
From Halifaxion
Steven Jones speaks at the Chicago 9/11 Steven Jones speaks at the Chicago 9/11 Truth conference (June 2006) about World Trade Center Building 7 and the case for controlled demolition of all three towers. This is just ten minutes from a longer lecture that you can find in its entirety on Google Video here:
He based his opinion on the videos alone. If he had all the evidence, of the explosions heard by the firefighters, the seismic spikes before WTC1 and WTC2 fell, for example, he would have a different explanation.
If just one of the buildings was a demolition, then it proves the government was involved. It takes weeks in advance to wire a building.
Can you deny that!?!?
Let's try this again.
Mr Jowenko only watched the videos. How many times must this be repeated to you?
You can never accuse anyone of being overly selective with your posts again, you do it yourself.
There were NO seismic spikes before WTC1 and WTC2 fell (other than those associated with the aircraft impacts).
The Palisades seismic record shows that — as the collapses began — a huge seismic "spike" marked the moment the greatest energy went into the ground. The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before the falling debris struck the earth. These unexplained "spikes" in the seismic data lend credence to the theory that massive explosions at the base of the towers caused the collapses.
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
Who do think recorded that seismic data, robin? Lerner-Lam and his staff. And they state categorically that the seismic record does NOT show signs of a demolition. Let me repeat what he said again: "There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers," Lerner-Lam tells PM. "That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context."
In fact, the raw seismic data is available to any seismologist around the world. And guess what? There isn't ONE who has come forward to say there is something in that record that doesn't jibe with NIST's explanation of the collapses.
The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses,
This is simply FALSE, robin. The seismic traces when looked at with a broader time scale rather than that compressed one you posted clearly show a gradually increasing amplitude, with the peak oscillations near the middle of the waveform, not at the beginning as your source wants folks to believe. ImplosionWorld, experts on demolition, is on the record
"In all cases where seismographs detected the collapses, waveform readings indicate a single, gradually ascending and descending level of ground vibrations during the event. At no point during 9/11 were sudden or independent vibration "spikes" documented by any seismograph, and we are unaware of any entity possessing such data. This evidence makes a compelling argument against explosive demolition. The laws of physics dictate that any detonation powerful enough to defeat steel columns would have transferred excess energy through those same columns into the ground, and would certainly have been detected by at least one of the monitors that were sensitive enough to record the structural collapses. However, a detailed analysis of all available data reveals no presense of any unusual or abnormal vibration events."
You simply don't know what you are talking about, robin, You are so eager to make the government bad guys, you will believe anything posted by conspiracists. It is sad.
Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, N.Y., 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded strange seismic activity on Sept. 11 that has still not been explained.
While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse.
The Palisades seismic data recorded a 2.1 magnitude earthquake during the 10-second collapse of the South Tower at 9:59:04 and a 2.3 quake during the 8-second collapse of the North Tower at 10:28:31.
However, the Palisades seismic record shows that-as the collapses began-a huge seismic "spike" marked the moment the greatest energy went into the ground. The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before the falling debris struck the Earth.
These unexplained "spikes" in the seismic data lend credence to the theory that massive explosions at the base of the towers caused the collapses.
A "sharp spike of short duration" is how seismologist Thorne Lay of University of California at Santa Cruz told AFP an underground nuclear explosion appears on a seismograph.
The two unexplained spikes are more than 20 times the amplitude of the other seismic waves associated with the collapses and occurred in the East-West seismic recording as the buildings began to fall.
Experts cannot explain why the seismic waves peaked before the towers actually hit the ground.
You still lose, try again
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
Citing a AFP article written by Christopher Bollyn is not very convincing, robin. Bollyn is one of those who has done just what Lerner-Lam complained about. Or worse. I happen to think he's an outright liar who made up quotes from people since quotes in his articles could not be corroborated even by going to the individuals quoted (such as Lerner-Lam).
Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades,
Where do you think Lerner-Lam and his colleagues work, robin?
ROTFLOL!
While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse.
This is what I mean about Bollyn LYING, robin. There are no unusual spikes at the beginning of each collapse. Neither Lerner-Lam or any seismologist around the world has said there were. And I quoted ImplosionWorld (experts in demolotion) stating categorically this is not true. If you look at the waveforms with broader timescales you will see this. Or are you too lazy to go look?
The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses
This is absolutely untrue, robin.
You will not find truth by mindlessly regurgitating other's lies.
#197. To: beachooser, Critter, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#196)
A simple stopwatch says that all three buildings were brought down by controlled demolition - you can't get around that, BAC! You can manipulate and micro-manage information all you want; the harsh reality doesn't change.
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
When you wrote 9.8 pertaining to gravity you didn't write m/s (meters per second) like tom007 did. One must always include units. Otherwise it's considered sloppy.
BAC was so sloppy, or rather ignorant, he actually questioned why it was necessary to even have a calculation that proves the towers came down as the governemnt says. NIST made up fake computer models until they got the result they were looking for, but NIST didn't use that because they knew it was BS so they just said it was obvious from the video. LOL!
On top of that I see now BAC got the same equation wrong twice. Apparently he doesn't learn from past mistakes, or have a clue what it is that he is talking about in the first place. He has no credibility around here, I doubt he had much at LP either.
God is always good! "It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
No, robin, Bollyn was either taking things said by seismologists completely out of context or outright making up quotes and attributing them to them. He CLAIMED to cite what Lerner-Lam said but I showed you what Lerner-Lam actually said (with quotation marks). You can go directly to the reports put out by Lerner-Lam and his staff. They say NOTHING about spikes or seeing anything remotely related to bombs in the towers explosions in the seismic traces. They say and the seismic records clearly show that Bollyn's claim that the peak amplitudes are at the beginning of the collapse is FALSE. FALSE. The report issued by Lamont-Doherty includes various graphs showing the seismic readings produced by the planes crashing into the two towers as well as the later collapse of both buildings. Riviera, Bollyn and YOU used only one graph which shows the readings over a 30-minute time span, too long to see any real detail in the pulses. The truth is that Bollyn LIED, robin. And you appear to be gullible enough to believe those lies or because they conform to what you WANT to believe. Either is sad.
The South Tower collapse:
The North Tower collapse:
As to Thorne statement, I suggest you contact him to see if he thinks there is any indication of bombs in the seismic data traces:
Says the guy who told everyone that a tower twice as high as the WTC towers would take 16.31 seconds to collapse at freefall speed in a vacuum. ROTFLOL!
or rather ignorant,
Says the guy who claims all the structural engineers, demolition experts and macro-world physicists in the world are morons because they don't see that the WTC towers were obvious demolitions. ROTFLOL!
He has no credibility around here,
Then you should be able to just ignore me, Ricky ... as I go around demolishing every thread you folks try to start about bombs in the WTC towers and no Flight 77 at the Pentagon. ROTFLOL!
#211. To: beachooser, Critter, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#209)
BAC, you have a programmer for each thought you have. You're no one's math genius.
Common sense goes to the hard-core fact that the three buildings came down at free-fall rates (non-vacuum), not at anything which approached a "collapse."
All your spamming can't change that.
I don't know why so many go troll-feeding with you, in the first place.
{You disappeared - was that your Sabbath? 7th Day Adventist - right?}
That's a low blow BAC, he's been gone a few years now. It was a horrible thing what happened, affected a lot of people and i don't like it being brought up on this board.
And imagine ... I did it even without specifying the units.
That's fine, but still it's frowned upon not to use units, I didn't make those rules, but people who deal with that sort of thing on a regular basis know that.
NASA engineers figured this out the hard way when they didn't convert inches to meters and wasted a multi-million dollar probe to Mars.
My father was a scientist too and scribbled equations in the evenings, sort of as a hobby. He always used units and stressed the importance of doing so.
It would be too easy to mess up if a person, even a brilliant genius such as BeAChooser (!) neglected to include them, but I know you know that.
"Shortly before the first tower came down, I remember feeling the ground shaking. I heard a terrible noise, and then debris just started flying everywhere. ... By the time the debris settled from the first collapse, we started to walk back east, toward West Street, and a few minutes later ... we basically had the same thing: The ground shook again, and we heard another terrible noise and the next thing we knew the second tower was coming down." [EMS Lieutenant Bradley Mann]
I guess you missed this link I posted to you on the other thread.
Those are spikes that precede the fall of each tower.
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
That's a low blow BAC, he's been gone a few years now.
I'm sorry to hear that Diana. I didn't know. It's just that Red Jones said he remembered you married a scientist and I responded, with a ping to you, that "she should ask her husband who got the right answer in that calculation, RickyJ or I". You should have corrected me then. In anycase, I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sure you miss him.
So robin ... can you tell everyone the qualifications of Craig T. Furlong or Gordon Ross, authors of your linked article? Can you tell us anything about Craig Furlong, other than his name?
Here, let me help you. "Craig T Furlong" has indicated in various places on the web that he's from Huntington, California. He's listed on the Scholars for 9/11 *Truth* website as "Quantitative Methods, Business Administration." But not much else is provided anywhere in anything he posts.
Well, what do you know ... there is a Craig T. Furlong in Huntington Beach, CA. Here. According to this, Craig is a Chief Financial Officer of a non-profit charitable company that provides Medical, Counseling and Support Services. That fits the st911 description. That would sure qualify him to write an authoritative article on seismic data and its interpretation. ROTFLOL!
Now if I'm wrong about thinking Craig is this individual, by all means set me straight. Tell us, robin ... who is Craig T Furlong?
One more thing ... on various 9/11 forums, Craig makes some rather interesting assertions ... such as "anyone who sees a video of WTC7 KNOWS it was a controlled demolition." Now there's someone who didn't make up his mind until viewing all the data. Guess he's also a demolition expert. ROTFLOL!
And what about Gordon Ross? Isn't he the guy who also claims any initial collapse would have been arrested by the intact lower section of the buildings? Ah yes, that is the guy. The guy who holds degrees in both Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering and graduated from Liverpool John Moores University in 1984. The guy who is smarter than all the structural and demolition engineers in the world. Who is smarter than all the computer codes that have shown the collapse would have continued to the ground once it started. And who now is also smarter than all the seismologists in the world too.
Let's look at his analysis of the collapse I mentioned above. The following is from a discussion about it that I found on the web here: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/06/17/18281125.php . "His analysis assumes that the columns in the floors being impacted will reconnect with something in the falling debris that will maximally resist the descent of all of the debris above. He states "Upon impact with the lower section the falling mass would deliver a force which would grow from zero, up to the failure load of the impacted storey columns, over a finite period of time and distance." That premise leads to this statement "The analysis shows that despite the assumptions made in favour of collapse continuation, vertical movement of the falling section would be arrested prior to completion of the 3% shortening phase of the impacted columns, and within 0.02 seconds after impact. A collapse driven only by gravity would not continue to progress beyond that point." But Ross assumes a perfect descent of the collapsing structure and perfect contact between the columns of the falling floors with the undamaged columns in the floors below. THIS IS AN ABSURD PREMISE."
Anyone know what Mr Ross has actually worked on during his engineering life? We wouldn't want him to be another, Professor Jones, who gets called a physicist but actually has only worked on sub-atomic particle physics for the last 30 years. Now since Mr Ross posts over at Liberty Forum, maybe he could be convinced to join us here to tell us a little more about his qualifications. You game to contact him, robin? Maybe you can get him to confirm Craig T. Furlong's qualifications while you are at it.
They show 2 seismic spikes before the towers hit the ground. Similar to the seismic spike when a gas station exploded a few years before.
That's the seismologists' interpretation.
That many patriots have posted this information on various websites does not change the facts.
You of course, have tried to. That's because you are not interested in facts. You are interested only in distortion and lies.
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
They show 2 seismic spikes before the towers hit the ground.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
That's the seismologists' interpretation.
FALSE. There is not one seismologist in the world who believes bombs brought down the WTC towers. You are believing the lies of a KOOK named Bollyn, robin.
You are interested only in distortion and lies.
You will NEVER find the truth on a foundation of lies, robin.
Seismologist Arthur Lerner-Lam of Columbia University
stated, “Only a small fraction of the energy from the collapsing towers was
converted into ground motion. The ground shaking that resulted from the
collapse of the towers was extremely small.” In other words, the
collapsing did not cause 2.1 and 2.3 magnitude earthquakes. Furthermore,
a ‘sharp spike of short duration’ is how underground nuclear explosions
register on seismographs. Underground explosions, where the steel columns meet
Manhattans granite would account for both the demolition-style implosions and
these ‘spikes’ on the seismograph. Another seismologist at the Palisades
observatory, Won Young Kim said the 1993 truck bomb did not even register on
their seismographs because the explosion was ‘not coupled’ to the ground.
Imagine the magnitude of explosions it would take to register the two
earthquakes, when the truck bomb didn’t even show up.
Have a pleasant Bushbot troll/shill life,
while you may. I will not be posting to you again.
Your refusal to answer
clear cut questions put to you 3 times, and continuance to lie about the
seismic spikes are all the work of a troll or paid shill.
Better report
back to ROTFLOL! Command Center.
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
Another seismologist at the Palisades observatory, Won Young Kim said
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/11/011116064642.htm "The Eos paper was written by 12 researchers at Lamont, including Kim, Lynn Sykes, Klaus Jacob, Paul Richards, and Arthur Lerner-Lam, director of Columbia's new Center for Hazards and Risk Research. Lerner-Lam explained what happened once the planes hit the World Trade Center and why they resulted in relatively small seismographic readings. "The energy contained in the amount of fuel combusted was equivalent to the energy released by 240 tons of TNT," said Lerner-Lam. "This energy was absorbed by the buildings and produced the observed fireballs, but did not immediately cause the collapse. During the collapse, most of the energy of the falling debris was absorbed by the towers and the neighboring structures, converting them into rubble and dust or causing other damagebut not causing significant ground shaking."
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010911_WTC/fact_sheet.htm "The seismic waves from the five World Trade Center events resemble those produced by the collapse of a salt mine south of Rochester, in 1994. ... snip ... For further information contact Won Young Kim wykim@ldeo.columbia.edu, Jeremiah Armitage jha@ldeo.columbia.edu, John Armbruster armb@ldeo.columbia.edu, Klaus Jacob jacob@ldeo.columbia.edu, Arthur Lerner-Lam lerner@ldeo.columbia.edu, Paul Richards richards@ldeo.columbia.edu, Lynn R. Sykes sykes@ldeo.columbia.edu, Jia-Kang Xie xie@ldeo.columbia.edu"
http://911research.com/wtc/analysis/collapses/concrete.html "Many observers have likened the Towers' destruction to volcanoes, noting that the Towers seemed to be transformed into columns of thick dust in the air. An article about seismic observations of events in New York City on 9/11/01, relates the observations of scientists Won-Young Kim, Lynn R. Sykes, J.H. Armitage: "The authors also noted that, as seen in television images, the fall of the towers was similar to a pyroclastic flow down a volcano, where hot dust and chunks of material descend at high temperatures. The collapse of the WTC generated such a flow, though without the high temperatures."
Have a pleasant Bushbot troll/shill life, while you may. I will not be posting to you again.
Yet another FD4UM poster who shows her/his true aversion to facts. It is staggering the number of FD4UM members who have elected to bozo themselves rather than face facts that challenge their world view.
Here's a question for you BAC, and hopefully you can answer it.
Let's say I'm a guy who owns a building the size and configuration of WTC 7. How long do you think it would take for a demolitions expert to set up the charges inside the building to ensure a nice, safe, and clean demolition?
How long does it take a demolition crew to set up explosives in a building like WTC7, because we do know from Larry Silverstein that it was demolished, and not because of terrorism.
HE VERY CLEARLY STATES THAT WTC7 IS A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!!!!!
WHY DO YOU IGNORE THAT!!!
He based his opinion on the videos alone. If he had all the evidence, of the explosions heard by the firefighters, the seismic spikes before WTC1 and WTC2 fell, for example, he would have a different explanation.
If just one of the buildings was a demolition, then it proves the government was involved. It takes weeks in advance to wire a building.
Can you deny that!?!?
Along the same lines, I asked him the above 3 times. He refused to answer the very pertinent question. Instead he repeats lies about the seismic spikes. BAC is most likely a paid shill. He's not worth wasting any more time on, because he isn't interested in the truth; only Bush Cabal lies and treason.
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
#228. To: TommyTheMadArtist, robin, SKYDRIFTER (#225)
How long does it take a demolition crew to set up explosives in a building like WTC7, because we do know from Larry Silverstein that it was demolished, and not because of terrorism.
I glad you brought this up. I watched the documentary on pbs and Larry Silverstein says "they pulled the building".
Now if BAC still says it fell due to damage (the official conspiracy story) then we can be sure he is a shill through and through.
I sometimes wondered if he were a troll due to his inability to use logic very effectively. But due to the size of this site the PTB would not use a first string shill here that would be reserved for sites like free republic. He is probably a third string agent.
Truly a sad state of affairs to be that stupid or be a intellectual prostitute willing to sell out his fellow man for money or position.
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength, Bush is President
Imagine the NYFD set up to do controlled demolition. 9-11 wasn't supposed to be a modified case of Fahrenheit 451; or so we're to believe.
OR; imagine anyone carrying explosives into a burning building.
RIGHT!
exactly
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush (About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
