Freedom4um

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Why the towers fell: Two theories [by a civil engineer]
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.vermontguardian.com/commentary/032007/TwinTowers.shtml
Published: Mar 1, 2007
Author: William Rice
Post Date: 2007-04-17 16:30:39 by honway
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 12140
Comments: 196

Why the towers fell: Two theories

By William Rice

William Rice, P.E., is a registered professional civil engineer who worked on structural steel (and concrete) buildings in Boston, New York, and Philadelphia. He was also a professor at Vermont Technical College where he taught engineering materials, structures lab, and other building related courses,

Posted March 1, 2007

Having worked on structural steel buildings as a civil engineer in the era when the Twin Towers were designed and constructed, I found some disturbing discrepancies and omissions concerning their collapse on 9/11.

I was particularly interested in the two PBS documentaries that explained the prevailing theories as determined by two government agencies, FEMA and NIST (National Institute of Science and Technology). The first (2002) PBS documentary, Why the Towers Fell, discussed how the floor truss connectors failed and caused a “progressive pancake collapse.”

The subsequent 2006 repackaged documentary Building on Ground Zero explained that the connectors held, but that the columns failed, which is also unlikely. Without mentioning the word “concrete,” the latter documentary compared the three-second collapse of the concrete Oklahoma City Murrah Federal Building with that of the Twin Towers that were of structural steel. The collapse of a concrete-framed building cannot be compared with that of a structural steel-framed building.

Since neither documentary addressed many of the pertinent facts, I took the time to review available material, combine it with scientific and historic facts, and submit the following two theories for consideration.

The prevailing theory

The prevailing theory for the collapse of the 110-story, award-winning Twin Towers is that when jetliners flew into the 95th and 80th floors of the North and South Towers respectively, they severed several of each building’s columns and weakened other columns with the burning of jet fuel/kerosene (and office combustibles).

However, unlike concrete buildings, structural steel buildings redistribute the stress when several columns are removed and the undamaged structural framework acts as a truss network to bridge over the missing columns.

After the 1993 car bomb explosion destroyed columns in the North Tower, John Skilling, the head structural engineer for the Twin Towers, was asked about an airplane strike. He explained that the Twin Towers were originally designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 (similar in size to the Boeing 767). He went on to say that there would be a horrendous fire from the jet fuel, but “the building structure would still be there.”

The 10,000 gallons of jet fuel (half capacity) in each jetliner did cause horrendous fires over several floors, but it would not cause the steel members to melt or even lose sufficient strength to cause a collapse. This is because the short-duration jet fuel fires and office combustible fires cannot create (or transmit to the steel) temperatures hot enough. If a structural steel building could collapse because of fire, it would do so slowly as the various steel members gradually relinquished their structural strength. However, in the 100-year history of structural-steel framed buildings, there is no evidence of any structural steel framed building having collapsed because of fire.

Let’s assume the unlikelihood that these fires could weaken all of the columns to the same degree of heat intensity and thus remove their structural strength equally over the entire floor, or floors, in order to cause the top 30-floor building segment (South Tower WTC #2) to drop vertically and evenly onto the supporting 79th floor. The 30 floors from above would then combine with the 79th floor and fall onto the next level down (78th floor) crushing its columns evenly and so on down into the seven levels below the street level.

The interesting fact is that each of these 110-story Twin Towers fell upon itself in about ten seconds at nearly free-fall speed. This violates Newton’s Law of Conservation of Momentum that would require that as the stationary inertia of each floor is overcome by being hit, the mass (weight) increases and the free-fall speed decreases.

Even if Newton’s Law is ignored, the prevailing theory would have us believe that each of the Twin Towers inexplicably collapsed upon itself crushing all 287 massive columns on each floor while maintaining a free-fall speed as if the 100,000, or more, tons of supporting structural-steel framework underneath didn’t exist.

The politically unthinkable theory

Controlled demolition is so politically unthinkable that the media not only demeans the messenger but also ridicules and “debunks” the message rather than provide investigative reporting. Curiously, it took 441 days for the president’s 9/11 Commission to start an “investigation” into a tragedy where more than 2,500 WTC lives were taken. The Commission’s investigation also didn’t include the possibility of controlled-demolition, nor did it include an investigation into the “unusual and unprecedented” manner in which WTC Building #7 collapsed.

The media has basically kept the collapse of WTC Building #7 hidden from public view. However, instead of the Twin Towers, let’s consider this building now. Building #7 was a 47-story structural steel World Trade Center Building that also collapsed onto itself at free-fall speed on 9/11. This structural steel building was not hit by a jetliner, and collapsed seven hours after the Twin Towers collapsed and five hours after the firemen had been ordered to vacate the building and a collapse safety zone had been cordoned off. Both of the landmark buildings on either side received relatively little structural damage and both continue in use today.

Contrary to the sudden collapse of the Twin Towers and Building #7, the four other smaller World Trade Center buildings #3, #4, #5, and #6, which were severely damaged and engulfed in flames on 9/11, still remained standing. There were no reports of multiple explosions. The buildings had no pools of molten metal (a byproduct of explosives) at the base of their elevator shafts. They created no huge caustic concrete/cement and asbestos dust clouds (only explosives will pulverize concrete into a fine dust cloud), and they propelled no heavy steel beams horizontally for three hundred feet or more.

The collapse of WTC building #7, which housed the offices of the CIA, the Secret Service, and the Department of Defense, among others, was omitted from the government’s 9/11 Commission Report, and its collapse has yet to be investigated. Perhaps it is time for these and other unanswered questions surrounding 9/11 to be thoroughly investigated. Let’s start by contacting our congressional delegation.

William Rice, P.E., is a registered professional civil engineer who worked on structural steel (and concrete) buildings in Boston, New York, and Philadelphia. He was also a professor at Vermont Technical College where he taught engineering materials, structures lab, and other building related courses. Subscribe to *9-11*

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

#4. To: All (#0)

The interesting fact is that each of these 110-story Twin Towers fell upon itself in about ten seconds at nearly free-fall speed.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

In the link above,you can click on the link to 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and hear Dr. Shyam Sunder of the NIST explain Tower 1 collapsed in 11 seconds and Tower 2 collapsed in 9 seconds.

honway  posted on  2007-04-17   17:30:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: All (#4)

Dr. Shyam Sunder of the NIST explain Tower 1 collapsed in 11 seconds and Tower 2 collapsed in 9 seconds.

Dr. Shyam Sunder was the Lead Investigator Building and Fire Safety Investigation of WTC Disaster

honway  posted on  2007-04-17   17:32:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: All (#5)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

Click on 9/11 Conspiracy Therories at the above link for the source of the quote below.

Dr. Shyam Sunder- Lead Investigator- Building and Fire Safety Investigation of WTC Disaster:

"The measurements have indicated that Tower One collapsed in about 11 seconds and Tower Two collapsed in about 9 seconds."

"...the building is 70% just air in volume."

honway  posted on  2007-04-17   19:47:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: honway (#14)

http://www.911blogger.com/node/6040

What the World Trade Center Building Designers Said: Before and After 9/11 Submitted by Arabesque on Wed, 02/07/2007 - 7:55pm. Leslie Robertson What the World Trade Center Building Designers Said: Before and After 9/11

An analysis of contradictions in statements by Building Designer Leslie Robertson

By Arabesque[1]

Update: 03/12/2007

Another Quotation from John Skilling added about the possibility of controlled demolition destroying the World Trade Center buildings in 1993.

Before 9/11

“A previous analysis [by WTC building designers], carried out early in 1964, calculated that the towers would handle the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing”[2]

(Between Early 1984 and October 1985):

“However, O’Sullivan consults ‘one of the trade center’s original structural engineers, Les Robertson, on whether the towers would collapse because of a bomb or a collision with a slow-moving airplane.’ He is told there is ‘little likelihood of a collapse no matter how the building was attacked.’”[3]

1993

“[Building designer] John Skilling recounts his people having carried out an analysis which found the twin towers could withstand the impact of a Boeing 707. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed.” But, he says, “The building structure would still be there.”[4]

“The analysis Skilling is referring to is likely one done in early 1964, during the design phase of the towers. A three-page white paper, dated February 3, 1964, described its findings: “The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.” However, besides this paper, no documents are known detailing how this analysis was made.”[5]

“Skilling - a recognized expert in tall buildings - doesn't think a single 200-pound car bomb would topple or do major structural damage to a Trade Center tower. The supporting columns are closely spaced and even if several were disabled, the others would carry the load. ‘However,’ he added, ‘I'm not saying that properly applied explosives - shaped explosives - of that magnitude could not do a tremendous amount of damage.’ Although Skilling is not an explosives expert, he says there are people who do know enough about building demolition to bring a structure like the Trade Center down. ‘I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it.’”[6]

2001

“Leslie Robertson, one of the two original structural engineers for the World Trade Center, is asked at a conference in Frankfurt, Germany what he had done to protect the twin towers from terrorist attacks. He replies, ‘I designed it for a 707 to smash into it,’ though does not elaborate further.”[7]

[Leslie Robertson:] “The twin towers were in fact the first structures outside the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airplane.”[8]

[Frank A. Demartini:] “The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.” Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001. [9]

Sept 3-7, 2001—just before 9/11

“The Boeing 707 was the largest in use when the towers were designed. [Leslie] Robertson conducted a study in late 1964, to calculate the effect of a 707 weighing 263,000 pounds and traveling at 180 mph crashing into one of the towers. [Robertson] concluded that the tower would remain standing. However, no official report of his study has ever surfaced publicly.”[10]

After 9/11

“The engineer who said after the 1993 bombing that the towers could withstand a Boeing 707, Leslie Robertson, was not available for comment yesterday, a partner at his Manhattan firm said. ‘We're going to hold off on speaking to the media,’ said the partner, Rick Zottola, at Leslie E. Robertson Associates. ‘We'd like to reserve our first comments to our national security systems, F.B.I. and so on.’”[11]

“The building owners, designers and insurers, prevented independent researchers from gaining access—and delayed the BPAT team in gaining access—to pertinent building documents largely because of liability concerns.”[12]

“[The] National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), in 2005 state that it has been ‘unable to locate any evidence to indicate consideration of the extent of impact- induced structural damage or the size of a fire that could be created by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.’”[13]

“In 2002, Leslie Robertson wrote: “To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance.”[14]

“[Leslie Robertson:] I support the general conclusions of the NIST report… The [WTC] was designed for the impact of a low flying slow flying Boeing 707. We envisioned it [to be like] the aircraft that struck the Empire State building [during] WW II. It was not designed for a high speed impact from the jets that actually hit it… Yes there was a red hot metal seen [in the WTC rubble] by engineers. Molten—Molten means flowing—I’ve never run across anyone who has said that they had in fact seen molten metal, or by the way if they had seen it, if they had performed some kind of an analysis to determine what that metal was.” Steven Jones in discussion With Leslie Robertson [MP3] by KGNU Radio, Denver, CO, Oct 26, 2006

Analysis:

Robertson has made some glaring contradictions in his statements.

· Robertson claims that the building was designed to only survive plane crashes at speeds of 180 mph. Interestingly he made this claim only a few days before 9/11.[15] A quote by Building Designer Skilling indicates that “A previous analysis, carried out early in 1964, calculated that the towers would handle the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing”.[16] Robertson must resolve this apparent contradiction. It is a very suspicious statement given the fact that it would be reasonable to consider the maximum speed of a plane flying into the Twin Towers. Is it possible that Robertson was asked to leak this “deliberately misleading information” just before 9/11? However, this is just speculation. Also suspicious is the fact that he said in 1984-5 that there was “little likelihood of a collapse no matter how the building was attacked.”[17]

· Robertson says that the building was not designed to survive jet fuel fires: “To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire”. This claim is suspicious for two reasons: why would they design the towers to survive plane crashes without considering the jet fuel? And more importantly, John Skilling claimed in 1993 that they did consider the jet fuel when they designed the buildings.[18] Given this fact, which statement is more likely to be correct about jet fuel fires being considered?

· NIST is also contradicted when they claim that there was no “evidence to indicate consideration of… thousands of gallons of jet fuel”. This statement is clearly false. See John Skilling’s statement: “Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire… The building structure would still be there.”[19]

· In interview with Steven Jones, Robertson claims that he had “never run across anyone who has said that they had in fact seen molten metal.” This statement is extremely suspicious considering the fact that Robertson himself claimed to have seen it in a published news report! This contradicts his own statement about seeing molten metal: “Leslie Robertson, the structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, describes fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks.”[20]. As well, substantial eye-witness testimony supports observations of Molten Steel.[21]

· Robertson is also incorrect when he says that “if they had seen [Molten Steel, they had not] performed some kind of an analysis to determine what that metal was. This statement is false. FEMA analyzed samples of the molten steel.[22] However, NIST did not even mention the molten steel and called it “irrelevant to [their] investigation.”[23] This could have simply been a mistake by Robertson.

Is Robertson being pressured to lie and make false statements? Was he asked to leak a false statement just before 9/11 about the speed of the planes having an impact on their destruction? Are these contradictions by accident or mistake?

A news report stated that he wanted to give his opinion to the FBI before making his comments public. This in itself is not overly suspicious—but his contradictions are. No clear answers to these and similar questions can be obtained through speculation alone— Leslie Robertson must account for these himself. If another 9/11 investigation is obtained, it is clear that Leslie Robertson will have to answer these and other relevant questions.

----------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------

[1] http: //www.911blogger.com/blog/877

[2] Paul Thompson’s Complete 9/11 Timeline: (see February 27, 1993)

[3] http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entit y.jsp? entity=leslie_robertson

See here: [Glanz and Lipton, 2004, pp. 227; New York County Supreme Court, 1/20/2004]

[4] [Seattle Times, 2/27/1993]

[5] [Glanz and Lipton, 2004, pp. 131-132; Lew, Bukowski, and Carino, 10/2005, pp. 70-71]

[6] [Seattle Times, 2/27/1993]

[7] [Chicago Tribune, 9/12/2001; Knight Ridder, 9/12/2001]

[8] [Robertson, 3/2002; Federal Emergency Management Agency, 5/1/2002, pp. 1-17]

[9] http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/no vember20 04/141104designedtotake.htm

[10] [Glanz and Lipton, 2004, pp. 138-139, 366]

[11] “Believed to Be Safe, the Towers Proved Vulnerable to Jet Fuel Fire”

By JAMES GLANZ

http://www.punjabilok.com/america_under _attack/ believed_tobe_safe.htm

[12] [US Congress, 3/6/2002; Associated Press, 3/7/2002]

[13] [National Institute of Standards and Technology, 9/2005, pp. 13]

[14] [Robertson, 3/2002]

[15] [Chicago Tribune, 9/12/2001; Knight Ridder, 9/12/2001] These articles the day after 9/11 make clear the fact that this statement was made before 9/11: “Les Robertson, the Trade Center's structural engineer, spoke last week at a conference on tall buildings in Frankfurt, Germany”.

[16] Complete 9/11 Timeline: (see February 27, 1993)]

[17] http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entit y.jsp? entity=leslie_robertson

See here: [Glanz and Lipton, 2004, pp. 227; New York County Supreme Court, 1/20/2004]

[18] [Seattle Times, 2/27/1993]

[19] [Seattle Times, 2/27/1993]

[20] [SEAU News, 10/2001] This fact was observed by David Ray Griffin and Paul Thompson’s Complete 9/11 Timeline.

[21] http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 05/12/wh y-was-there-molten-metal-under.html

[22] See here for pictures and comments in FEMA’s report mentioning the melted steel: http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evi dence/me tallurgy/index.html

“Although virtually all of the structural steel from the Twin Towers and Building 7 was removed and destroyed, preventing forensic analysis, FEMA's volunteer investigators did manage to perform "limited metallurgical examination" of some of the steel before it was recycled. Their observations, including numerous micrographs, are recorded in Appendix C of the WTC Building Performance Study. Prior to the release of FEMA's report, a fire protection engineer and two science professors published a brief report in JOM disclosing some of this evidence.” 1

“The results of the examination are striking. They reveal a phenomenon never before observed in building fires: eutectic reactions, which caused "intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese." The New York Times described this as "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation."2 WPI provides a graphic summary of the phenomenon.”

“The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified. The rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure. A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires.”

Evidence of evaporated steel as reported by the New York Times:

“Engineers have been trying to figure out exactly what happened… ‘Fire and the structural damage… would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated’” from:

Glanz, James (2001). “Engineers are baffled over the collapse of 7 WTC; Steel members have been partly evaporated,” New York Times, November 29. 2001.

[23] See here: http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/nis t/WTC_FA Q_reply.html#13

Kamala  posted on  2007-04-18   5:18:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 16.

#17. To: Kamala (#16)

“A previous analysis [by WTC building designers], carried out early in 1964, calculated that the towers would handle the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing”[2]

Thanks for the information.

honway  posted on  2007-04-18 09:13:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Kamala, honway, nolu_chan, ALL (#16)

http://www.911blogger.com/node/6040

Where are all those who jumped on me for using blogs as sources? ROTFLOL!

“A previous analysis [by WTC building designers], carried out early in 1964, calculated that the towers would handle the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing”[2]

The source for this is Paul Thompson’s Complete 9/11 Timeline. ROTFLOL! This is false. The calculation was done by Skilling (and only Skilling) and he was not one of the principle designers of the Towers. Nevertheless, and for the record, the towers did handle the impact of a 707 sized plane travelling almost that fast.

“However, O’Sullivan consults ‘one of the trade center’s original structural engineers, Les Robertson, on whether the towers would collapse because of a bomb or a collision with a slow-moving airplane.’ He is told there is ‘little likelihood of a collapse no matter how the building was attacked.’”[3]

Let's see. The towers did in fact survive the 1993 bomb attack. And they would probably have survived a "slow-moving airplane". The rest of that statement can be attributed to designers' pride.

“[Building designer] John Skilling recounts his people having carried out an analysis which found the twin towers could withstand the impact of a Boeing 707. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed.” But, he says, “The building structure would still be there.”[4]

Read this http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=1687698&date=19930227 (the actual 2/27/1993 article from the Seattle Times) and see how the author has dishonestly added a complete sentence to the Seattle Times article. And Skillings was right about the building surviving the impact, as I just pointed out to nolu_chan.

“The analysis Skilling is referring to is likely one done in early 1964, during the design phase of the towers. A three-page white paper, dated February 3, 1964, described its findings

The author does not understand the difference between an analysis and design. A white paper is a back of the envelope stab at an answer to something. It is not part of the design. There is a reason it is called a "white paper". So it's a stretch to imply this white paper was done as part of the design process.

“The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour.

That's not true. All Skillings concluded is that the structure would still be standing AFTER THE IMPACT. He expressed concern about what the fires would do. But designers in those days didn't have the means to determine what that would be.

Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.”

It's worth noting that designers also didn't have the computers and computer tools necessary to determine this with any certainty either. And Skillings said "Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed." THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. And it was basically unaddressed because the tools to address it simply didn't exist in those days.

By the way, I hope folks can see the irony in this. Mark is putting forth this article and Skillings white paper as proof that the towers were designed to survive and should have survived. At the same time Mark completely dismisses the use of modern computers and computer codes to analyze the response of the structure and the fires. The tools Skilliing had were like the tools of cavemen compared to what engineers have available today. But Mark trusts the old tools and doesn't trust the more modern ones. That deserves a laugh. ROTFLOL!

“Skilling - a recognized expert in tall buildings - doesn't think a single 200-pound car bomb would topple or do major structural damage to a Trade Center tower.

And it looks like he was right as the 1993 van bomb attack proved.

‘I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it.’”[6]

And that's probably true too. So what? This doesn't in any way prove that bombs brought down the towers. For one thing, NOT ONE structural engineer or demolition expert in the world is on record saying they believe bombs brought down the WTC towers. NOT ONE. That might mean something...

“Leslie Robertson, one of the two original structural engineers for the World Trade Center, is asked at a conference in Frankfurt, Germany what he had done to protect the twin towers from terrorist attacks. He replies, ‘I designed it for a 707 to smash into it,’ though does not elaborate further.”[7]

True, he did design for a 707 hitting the towers. BUT AT LOW SPEED.

[Frank A. Demartini:] “The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.” Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center,

First of all, readers should know that Demartini degree was in architecture, not structures. There is a difference. Second, in that statement, he completely overlooked the importance of velocity in the impact. It was NOT "designed" for a high speed impact. And it was not designed for multiple impacts. Third, Demartini was not the construction manager during the construction of the towers. He was 14 when construction began. So I doubt he was all that familiar with their "design". On the other hand, Leslie Robertson was very familiar with it.

“The Boeing 707 was the largest in use when the towers were designed. [Leslie] Robertson conducted a study in late 1964, to calculate the effect of a 707 weighing 263,000 pounds and traveling at 180 mph crashing into one of the towers. [Robertson] concluded that the tower would remain standing. However, no official report of his study has ever surfaced publicly.”[10]

As I said, the design was for a plane impacting at 180 mph, not 400, not 500, not 600.

“The engineer who said after the 1993 bombing that the towers could withstand a Boeing 707, Leslie Robertson, was not available for comment yesterday, a partner at his Manhattan firm said. ‘We're going to hold off on speaking to the media,’ said the partner, Rick Zottola, at Leslie E. Robertson Associates. ‘We'd like to reserve our first comments to our national security systems, F.B.I. and so on.’”[11]

A prudent course of action given the power of lawyers in this country.

“The building owners, designers and insurers, prevented independent researchers from gaining access—and delayed the BPAT team in gaining access—to pertinent building documents largely because of liability concerns.”[12]

Can you name any that are now complaining? And as I said, lawyers are likely to blame for those documents not being released. Not Bush's cabal.

“[The] National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), in 2005 state that it has been ‘unable to locate any evidence to indicate consideration of the extent of impact- induced structural damage or the size of a fire that could be created by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.’”[13]

Well if they weren't considered, where's that leave the conspiracy crowd? Suddenly the towers were not designed for a plane crash and fire?

“In 2002, Leslie Robertson wrote: “To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance.”[14]

Which makes sense given that the computers and computer codes needed to accurately model such effects weren't invented until after the WTC was built.

“[Leslie Robertson:] I support the general conclusions of the NIST report… The [WTC] was designed for the impact of a low flying slow flying Boeing 707. We envisioned it [to be like] the aircraft that struck the Empire State building [during] WW II. It was not designed for a high speed impact from the jets that actually hit it…

Thank you for confirming what I've already stated. And this statement is completely consistent with everything he had stated previously.

Yes there was a red hot metal seen [in the WTC rubble] by engineers. Molten—Molten means flowing—I’ve never run across anyone who has said that they had in fact seen molten metal, or by the way if they had seen it, if they had performed some kind of an analysis to determine what that metal was.” Steven Jones in discussion With Leslie Robertson [MP3] by KGNU Radio, Denver, CO, Oct 26, 2006

Well, there certainly was some molten metal (maybe not the "pools" that the CT community claims). And certainly no one appears to have done an actual analysis to determine what the metal was. But I'm willing to assume some of it was steel.

Robertson has made some glaring contradictions in his statements.

No he hasn't.

Robertson claims that the building was designed to only survive plane crashes at speeds of 180 mph. Interestingly he made this claim only a few days before 9/11.[15]

So is that proof he too was part of the conspiracy? What's it like knowing that virtually everyone out there was part of the conspiracy ... but not you? ROTFLOL!

A quote by Building Designer Skilling

Notice how the author of the article the blog quotes deceptively adds the words "building designer" before Skilling ... just like he dishonestly inserted it (and a complete sentence) into a quote from one of the sources he referenced?

It is a very suspicious statement given the fact that it would be reasonable to consider the maximum speed of a plane flying into the Twin Towers.

No it wouldn't be reasonable. Otherwise all buildings would be designed to consider the maximum speed that a plane could hit it. Any plane. What the designers REASONABLY did is take care of the situation that came up when a plane hit the Empire State building. It was flying in fog. Which is why it hit the building in the first place. That could happen today, perhaps. But in clear weather designers back in the 1960's would have considered it UNLIKELY that a commercial jet would hit the largest buildings in the world. And in fog at low altitude a commercial jet would not likely be going anywhere near its maximum velocity. In fact, the REASONABLE thing to assume is that the plane would be at low altitude because it was preparing to land and it got lost in the fog. And if its preparing to land it isn't travelling at maximum speed. So the statement by the author of the article you quote is simply nonsense.

Is it possible that Robertson was asked to leak this “deliberately misleading information” just before 9/11? However, this is just speculation.

ROTFLOL! Like I said, how many people do the CT community think were part of the plot? Everyone but them because it seems they now have everyone either part of it or actively threatened to keep quiet. Which is completely ridiculous.

Robertson says that the building was not designed to survive jet fuel fires: “To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire”. This claim is suspicious for two reasons: why would they design the towers to survive plane crashes without considering the jet fuel?

Well first of all, a plane that was landing and lost in the fog would probably be relatively low on fuel. Second, they didn't because they simply didn't have the tools to do it.

And more importantly, John Skilling claimed in 1993 that they did consider the jet fuel when they designed the buildings.[18]

No, he did not. He said that fuel induced fires were the big problem. That is all he said. He did not say the towers would survive those fires. Just that it would be standing after the impact. And keep in mind that his firm was designing the building so the last thing he would want to do is cause potential occupants to think the building unsafe. He wrote the white paper to reassure folks. As such he wouldn't emphasize any deficiencies in their ability to do an accurate analysis. Like their inability to analyze what fire would do to a structure like that. An inability caused by the fact that the computers and codes needed to do that with any degree of confidence simply did not exist back them.

In interview with Steven Jones, Robertson claims that he had “never run across anyone who has said that they had in fact seen molten metal.” This statement is extremely suspicious considering the fact that Robertson himself claimed to have seen it in a published news report! This contradicts his own statement about seeing molten metal: “Leslie Robertson, the structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, describes fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks.”[20].

This is highly deceptive reporting. Reference 20 provides the following source to back up their statement. http://www.seau.org/SEAUNews-2001-10.pdf That source has article written by James M. Williams, SEAU president in which HE presumably describes the contents of a speech by Robertson. He writes "As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running." And that statement does not say that Robertson himself saw molten steel. It doesn't say that anywhere in the linked source.

Robertson is also incorrect when he says that “if they had seen [Molten Steel, they had not] performed some kind of an analysis to determine what that metal was. This statement is false. FEMA analyzed samples of the molten steel.[22]

More dishonesty. They did not perform analysis on anything identified as molten steel. They performed it on intact steel samples. In fact, the source that is linked to this claim only states that they found "evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent intergranular melting, was readily visible in the near-surface microstructure. A liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur formed during this hot corrosion attack on the steel." This is not melting in the sense postulated by the CT community. This is something that would actually lower the melting point of the steel. They went on to say that "the rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure." Because a "eutectic mixture" is one that has a lower than normal melting point, and because this might have been caused in the years prior to the collapse or in the rubble when the steel was exposed to sulfer and other chemicals, this might actually be yet another explanation why molten steel was found in the rubble.

However, NIST did not even mention the molten steel and called it “irrelevant to [their] investigation.”[23]

Because their charter was to explain the collapse, not explain why some molten steel was found in the rubble.

Is Robertson being pressured to lie and make false statements? Was he asked to leak a false statement just before 9/11 about the speed of the planes having an impact on their destruction? Are these contradictions by accident or mistake?

Is the author a KOOK who thinks that tens of thousands are part of the conspiracy or helping to cover it up? Does THAT make any sense in this day and age?

No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified.

Read Dr Greening paper on the sulfer at the WTC. I think that's clear enough.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-19 00:47:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest