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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: No jobs for US citizens without Homeland Security approval
Source: Press Esc
URL Source: http://pressesc.com/01180202266_eevs
Published: May 27, 2007
Author: IFP Canada
Post Date: 2007-05-27 14:42:23 by Zipporah
Keywords: None
Views: 1995
Comments: 124

No jobs for US citizens without Homeland Security approval

Submitted by Canada IFP on Sat, 2007-05-26 18:00. | |

US citizens who apply for a job will need prior approval from Department of Homeland Security under the terms immigration bill passed by the Senate this week.

American Civil Liberties Union pointed out that the DHS's Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) is error plagued and if the department makes a mistake in determining work eligibility, there will be virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages due to the bill’s prohibitions on judicial review.

Even current employees will need to obtain eligibility approval from the DHS Within 60 days of the Immigration Reform Act of 2006 becoming law.

"EEVS would be a financial and bureaucratic nightmare for both businesses and workers," said Timothy Sparapani, ACLU Legislative Counsel. "Under this already flawed program no one would be able to work in the U.S. without DHS approval - creating a ‘No Work List’ similar to the government’s ‘No Fly List.’ We need immigration reform, but not at this cost."

The act allocates US$400 million for the implementation of the EEVS, but the Congressional Budgeting Office estimates the system to cost in excess of a billion dollars.

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#1. To: Zipporah (#0)

DHS should be shut down...period.

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-05-27   14:45:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: who knows what evil (#1)

Absolutely..

This brought to mind this song...

Zipporah  posted on  2007-05-27   14:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Zipporah (#2)

We have reached a sad time in this country's history when you hear people that are seeking freedom giving more consideration to locating in Russia than America.

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-05-27   15:07:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: who knows what evil (#3)

unfortunately there is no where to run...

Zipporah  posted on  2007-05-27   15:13:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Zipporah (#4)

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-05-27   15:36:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: who knows what evil (#5)

LOL! ..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-05-27   15:53:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: who knows what evil (#3)

We have reached a sad time in this country's history when you hear people that are seeking freedom giving more consideration to locating in Russia than America.

I have at least two friends who relocated to China. Of course, both were married to Chinese women whose parents came directly from China, but both also say that the change was like a breath of fresh air. That, too, was my reaction once I was relocated to Mèxico and had time to look around and begin to understand the differences. That means, once I had begun to shed the propaganda from the media in the states about so-called third world nations, and, in particular, about Mèxico.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-27   15:57:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: richard9151 (#7)

That, too, was my reaction once I was relocated to Mèxico and had time to look around and begin to understand the differences. That means, once I had begun to shed the propaganda from the media in the states about so-called third world nations, and, in particular, about Mèxico.

Can you elaborate on that?

Artisan  posted on  2007-05-27   16:45:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: who knows what evil (#5)

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark.

Thanks for the song. I haven't seen fishnet stockings in quite a while. Fortunately, I just discovered they are available online ;P

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-05-27   16:54:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Artisan (#8)

Can you elaborate on that?

To a degree, yes, but it is something that needs to be experienced to understand.

More than anything, Mèxico is, more than anything, a common law nation; you do not damage someone else, they pretty much leave you alone.

Let me give you an example; there was an American who had a house here, but he did not live in it full time. So this one time, he can down from his home in Phoenix, and found that a number of things had been stolen out of his house. For whatever reason, he became convinced that a Mèxican who lived nearby was responsible. He went to the police, demanded action. They came down, spoke to the man, reported to the American that the Mèxican denied stealing anything, and, absent any evidence to the contrary, there was nothing further that they could do.

The American demanded; yes, DEMANDED, that the police forcibly enter the man`s house and search it and remove all of his, the Amerians, stolen items and return them to him! As the police explained to him, they could not do that, as Mèxican law forbade them from entering into the man`s home without a court order obtained legally, and based on eyewitness testimony.

The American was outraged! Why, if this had happened up in the states, you guys would have busted that door in and I would already have my stuff!!!

The sad thing is, the American was correct, and he also had no idea of just how foolish he sounded to those of us who understand.

And the caveat to this is that, of course, the American was completely wrong, but that did not stop him from making life miserable for the Mèxican and the police until the actual truth came out. The actual thief was his cousin (female), who needed some money quick for his`'habits'. I will let you guess as to what habits that may be.

And how do I know about this? Because I know the editor of the local gringo (English lan.) newspaper here. But the essence of the story pretty well illustrates the differences between Mèxico and the states, and, how far we, as a people, have degenerated.

Here, the police pretty well leave you alone unless you mess with them, or, injure someone. In the states, police work is all about revenue, and no one is immune.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-27   17:13:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin (#9)

Fortunately, I just discovered they are available online ;P

Oh, really? "Honey...guess what?"

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-05-27   17:36:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: who knows what evil (#3)

we have close friends whose 20 yr old son had a russian friend visit him for about a month. this young man was appalled at the number of cops out on the streets of San Antonio. when told of the constant harrassment and number of insane laws on the books, he said, "we're much freer in Russia!"

To die for an idea; it is unquestionably noble. But how much nobler it would be if men died for ideas that were true!~H.L. Mencken

christine  posted on  2007-05-27   17:42:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: robin, who knows what evil (#9) (Edited)

oh, i'm sure there are lingerie and intimate apparel shops that carry them, y'all. we've got a store called Tabu that even carries fishnet body stockings. :P

To die for an idea; it is unquestionably noble. But how much nobler it would be if men died for ideas that were true!~H.L. Mencken

christine  posted on  2007-05-27   17:45:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: christine (#13)

oh, i'm sure there are lingerie and intimate apparel shops that carry them, y'all. we've got a store called Tabu that even carries fishnet body stockings. :P

One thing my wife and I noticed immediately upon moving to Tennessee was the number of 'adult emporiums' in the 'prim and proper' South as compared to the 'pagan and perverted' North. We got your number, 'Baptists'. :-)

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-05-27   18:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Zipporah (#0)

Here's your answer. Self Employment. How hard can it be to get around this shit?

Do you really want the government telling American Citizens who can and can't get a job in this country? If we allow this to stand, they will soon be telling us who can buy and sell.

It is far past time for redress in this country. Every politician who signs on to this bill, and passes it, must be removed from office. PERIOD.

By hook or by crook, if we don't start putting the brakes on, this car known as the United States, is going to be driven over the cliff by Thelma and Louise (Dumbasscrats, and Repuklicans).

Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2007-05-27   18:28:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: richard9151 (#10)

The American was outraged! Why, if this had happened up in the states, you guys would have busted that door in and I would already have my stuff!!!

I have to disagree. I'm doing bookeeping for a vehicle dealership right now. One of the fired salesman titled everything (+30 cars and street bikes) on the lot over into his name and sold out out from under the company...and then he wondered why he got fired.

He then later embezled funds from the company bank accounts and broke into the owners home to steal more records and vehicle titles.

I went with the owner to the police. We took with us two eye witnesses to the break in, literaly a suitcase full of bank and credit card statements that proved the salesman stole money from the company, and a fucking signed note from the former salesman himself that he left on the owners front door that detailed everything he had done.

That was 6 months ago. To date local and state law enforcement have done...jack shit. Meanwhile the former salesman continues to harass current employees of the company. Myself included. I now sleep with a pistol on my nightstand and a loaded shotgun in my closet.

However, the former salesman has now purchased himself a nice new house with the stolen funds and property.

Now, that is a sign of living in a 3rd world country.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2007-05-27   20:03:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#16)

One of the fired salesman titled everything

Yep... Seen this stuff before. Here is the problem; the business AUTHORIZED certain actions by the salesman, which probably included the authority to sign titles and such for business practices, and, probably checks as well. AND; the salesman has friends in the police and/or office of the procecutor.

Once the salesman is officially authorized, the police then take the position that 'you gave him permission, and it is now a legal recovery lawsuit problem, but it ain't criminal.'

Had the same problem when a mechanic that worked for me bought thousands of dollars of spark plugs and other such items to run his mechanic shop out of his garage on the weekends. Course, all we had were diesels, but did not matter to the cops; hey, you gave him permission! He was authorized to purchase materials by you, and that was the end of the story. Never got a dime back, and he never had a problem with the police (course, his brother was a lieutenant in the police department, but we did not know that at the time).

Another thing that this shows is how pervasive is the corruption in the United States, but all you hear about in the media is the so-called corrpution in Mèxico and other so-called third world nations. Do not get me wrong; there certainly is corruption here, but it ain't any worse than in the states; if anything, just a little more open and above board (as if such is possible!).

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-27   22:26:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: richard9151 (#10)

In your narative you refer to the cousin as female then claim the theft was to support "his" habit. So which is it. And no one especially a gringo gets in the face of a Mexican cop and demands anything especially against a Mexican. I guess I am saying your story is bullshit. But I do agree that in many ways Mexico is alot more laid back and not as controlling as the US which is now in every aspect of peoples lives.

willyone  posted on  2007-05-28   12:41:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: richard9151 (#10)

Thanks. The thing that bothers me about mexico is no weapons and no jury trials. any place that disallows people weapons, regardless of how rotten murika has become, is worse than murika. Maybe I shouldn't say 'worse', that's probabbly the wrong choice of words. but you know what I mean. I've spent and I may spend more time in MX in the future. if so I'll ping you to let you know how it's going.

Artisan  posted on  2007-05-28   13:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: willyone, richard9151, La Raza, All (#18)

Here

Mexican real estate has ‘history of problems’

MARLA DICKERSON SPECIAL TO WESTCOAST HOMES

The norteamericano hunger for leisure and retirement homes in Mexico is left unappeased sometimes by unappetizing, even unsavoury, fare, brokers who disappear with deposit money, homes seized, people jailed.

   Murky property records expose foreigners to complicated title disputes in courts that may not give them a fair the American government cautions its citizens.

   ‘‘There is a history of problems,’’ Liza Davis of the U.S. Consulate in Tijuana comments. ‘‘We ask people to go in with their eyes open.’’

   The most widely publicized dispute in recent years occurred in 2000, Ensenada in

   Mostly retired Americans, the evicted resided in homes built on ejido land, communal farmland that has been the source of complicated title struggles nationwide.
   Mexico’s Supreme Court ruled that the group with whom the Ensenada aggrieved negotiated their land deals was not the rightful owner, a decision that forced some of the people involved to abandon homes worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
   Doug and Dru Davis sold their San Diego home several years ago to buy a $200,000 US house on a Mexican beach, in a fishing village called La Cruz de Huanacaxtle, about 20 minutes from the famous Puerto Vallarta resort town.
   Last fall, however, workers hired by a Mexican development company began to move the beach — by dredging the bay in front of their home to reclaim land from the sea.
   Instead of watching whales pass a couple of hundred metres off their patio, the couple fear they’ll soon be looking at a marina, a hotel and residential high-rises.
   ‘‘This is sending a terrible message to investors,’’ says Doug Davis, 61. ‘‘You think you're buying oceanfront property, and then the [Mexican] government lets someone build in front of you.’’
   He says the absence of transparency stunned him when he and his neighbours began asking questions about the $50-million US project, whose Mexican developers are four well-known local businessmen.
   The 17 affected property-owners eventually engaged lawyers just to obtain basic information about building and environmental permits.
   The homeowners said the original plans called for a much smaller marina development and that officials had yet to show them permits authorizing the expansion in front of their homes.
   Dru Davis said she was taking antidepressants to cope with the stress. The couple fear that their property, which they calculate is worth more than $1 million US, could lose half its value if the development proceeds.
   About 2,200 kilometres up the coast from La Cruz de Huanacaxtle, in Baja California, Bob Torres says the $63,000 US he lost on a modified trailer home was nothing compared to being deprived of his liberty.
   The Los Angeles cinematographer and his wife were arrested, shackled and held in a Tijuana prison in March, the result of a legal dispute with the owner of a trailer park in a place called Rosarito. The park owner covets the prized oceanfront lot.
   Released on bail after three sleepless nights, they fled back to the United States with no plans to return to their favorite getaway.
   ‘‘Rosarito has a bitter taste for me now,’’ says Torres, 60. ‘‘I would not invest in Mexico again.’’
   Torres said the decision was particularly painful since he and his wife, Aide, had vacationed in Rosarito since they were children. Many of those years were spent in a seaside trailer park called La Barca, where the couple in 2002 secured a $300-US-a- month long-term lease on a lot with a spectacular view of the ocean.
   Starting with a 35-foot travel trailer, they added on little by little, eventually creating a two-storey, four-bedroom structure with a deck. Weekends and vacations were spent barbecuing with other long-time residents, mostly Americans.
   Bob Torres said things changed dramatically last year when Fidel Valdespino, son of the park’s long-time owner, took charge of a major portion of La Barca following his father’s death the year before.
   Torres said he arrived one weekend in September to find the water pipe to his lot severed.
   Others have reported their water and electricity was also cut about that time; the access to the public beach was blocked with debris; and a number of homes were burgled. An abandoned trailer sprouted English graffiti that read: ‘‘Gringos go home. This is Mexico.’’
   The word around La Barca was that Valdespino was trying to pressure the tenants to give up their bargain-priced, long-term leases to make way for a more profitable condominium development. Many fled as conditions deteriorated.
   Among the holdouts were Bob and Aide Torres. Arriving at La Barca March 18 for what they thought would be a relaxing weekend, they were arrested on allegations, by Valdespino, that they had damaged the water pipes at the trailer park. A local judge found them guilty without hearing their testimony, unusual for even Mexico's disparate legal system, according to their lawyer, Jose Heing Chig Bazua.
   The frightened pair spent three days and nights in the notorious La Mesa penitentiary in Tijuana. They were released after signing an agreement with Valdespino to remove their dwelling from La Barca within 30 days.
   Valdespino denied making the allegations against the couple, saying the agreement for them to leave was a mutual one.
   Informed that the structure was destroyed mysteriously by fire, the Torreses hired a contractor to haul it away for scrap.
   ‘‘I am not going to fight it,’’ Bob Torres said. ‘‘I fear for our lives.’’
   Los Angeles Times

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   13:27:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Jethro Tull (#20)

Bienvenidos a México

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2007-05-28   13:38:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: BTP Holdings (#21)

"What, me worry?"

December 16, 2006

Is Mexico About To Fall Apart? Brenda Walker Says Yes

By Brenda Walker

[See Allan Wall's Memo From Mexico: Is Mexico About to Fall Apart?]

For a couple years now, I've been toting up the unpleasant symptoms of Mexico's lurch toward failing statehood from the viewpoint of a concerned neighbor who lives next door to a crack house. Now I read that VDARE.COM's resident Mexico expert Alan Wall thinks that I'm overstating the problem.

Who should know better than Allan, since he lives in Mexico and has written expertly and at length about Mexican society?

I read his analysis with interest because of my great respect for his opinion. But still think I'm right—Mexico is a lawless mess that's getting worse and presents a near and present danger to us Americans, who have unlucky geography. [VDARE.COM NOTE: It was, of course, the Mexican dictator Porfirio Díaz who was credited with saying "Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States", but the corollary is obvious.]

One crisis that doesn't seem imminent is a Pancho Villa style revolution. I've never suggested that scenario was likely. Marxicans clearly hoped that a teachers' strike in Oaxaca in May would grow beyond a leftist mini-insurrection into a national uprising. The Oaxaca disturbance has lasted several months and shut down much of the central city. But it didn't spread.

A precedent occurred earlier in Chiapas, when Subcomandante Marcos tried to stir up a revolution as NAFTA was implemented in 1994. His small army of disenfranchised Mayan Indians took over a town or two, but that uprising remained localized also.

The Mexican meltdown is instead a 21st century phenomenon in which non-state actors—the drug cartels—acquire enough money and power to carve out their own areas of control through private armies. Think Somalia meets Colombia.

In fact, the Colombianization of Mexico is an accepted description.  It describes Mexico's new status as the illegal drug hub of the hemisphere, with all the carnage and corruption that designation implies.

"’The Mexican cartels are the most dangerous trafficking organizations in the world,’ says one U.S. official in Mexico City who asked not to be identified for security reasons. ‘They'll kill you for a dime, and they have everyone paid off and scared to death.’”  [Losing the War: A sharp spike in drug-related violence has some analysts worrying about the 'Colombianization' of Mexico, Newsweek 7/11/06].

Wars among the cartels are a growing source of violence, wreaking economic devastation on places like Nuevo Laredo, a border town that has lost 60 percent of its American business in the last two years. At least 40 businesses have closed in the town, where firefights between cartels may include rocket-propelled grenades and hundreds have been killed.

In August 2005, the State Department closed down the US Embassy in Nuevo Laredo for a week to reassess security after a shootout between drug gangs using machine guns, grenades and a rocket launcher. During the previous month, the city's police chief was gunned down just hours after taking office.

And even without the cartels, crime is worsening to the point where average Mexicans feel threatened The issue has become part of the political debate—Mexico expert George Grayson remarked in November about el Presidente Calderon, "He knows it is imperative that Mexican citizens feel that they are safe in their own streets."

Mexico City is home to "express kidnapping" in which middle class people are snatched and forced to give up their debit card and pin number. As a result of kidnapping becoming a more common form of rip-off, Mexico is #2 worldwide in kidnappings per capita.

In 2004, a stunning quarter million people rallied in Mexico City to protest the government's inability to stem the worsening crime wave. People carried pictures of crime victims and demanded the death penalty be added to Mexican jurisprudence.

From 1992 to 2002, Mexicans reported at least 15,000 kidnappings—second only to (guess who?) Colombia, according to the Inter-American Development Bank.

March organizers said most violent crime goes unreported, partly because of police corruption and the knowledge that nothing will be done.

"We are afraid. We can't go out onto the street and the police do absolutely nothing to protect us," said Yolanda Tellez, 62, who is retired. [Mexicans protest at soaring crime, by Mary Jordan, The Melbourne Age, June 29, 2004]

When crime reaches a certain level, it becomes an issue of national security. The Vice President of Colombia, Francisco Santos, said as much in September:

"Crime is the biggest problem of the next decade," he said. "It will hinder tourism, investment and threaten democracy." [Violent crime called 'biggest threat' to Latin America, EuroToday September 19, 2006]

Street gangs have proliferated throughout Central America in the 15 years since the end of civil wars. Guatemala has called in United Nations crime fighters, in an admission that its own police forces cannot cope.

Quite simply, what's going on in Mexico fits the definition of a failed state. The combination of factors—growing corruption and crime, lessened competence in Mexico City, the rearrangement of Mexican geography into cartel fiefdoms with the uptick in narco-influence (see map)—have merged to lessen government power.

Inability to enforce the law and preserve order over territory is one definition of a failed state. That's exactly the situation in Mexico.

The new Presidente, Felipe Calderon, took office December 1, albeit under inglorious circumstances as he hurriedly took his oath among brawling opposition legislators [video] who sought to prevent his swearing in.

But one of his first major acts has been to send 6,000 troops to Michoacan to round up traffickers. He also plans similar military incursions in other areas. Calderon appears to be made of sterner stuff than his predecessor. But it remains to be seen how much the military deployment is for the cameras.

Let's consider some other symptoms of the Mexico malaise.
bulletCartels have consistently beaten back police and the Mexican army when the government has attempted to reassert its authority. El Presidente Vicente Fox sent troops into Nuevo Laredo June 13, 2005, but when the military was pulled out in late July, the city was "more violent" than when they went in.

Regions that once were free of narco-violence, particularly tourist areas that bring in needed cash, are now free-fire zones. Once glamorous Acapulco is now called Narcapulco, because the drug gangsters have moved in with little opposition.

Cartels have taken a style cue from al Qaeda and are now using beheadings to terrorize the police and populace. In April, gangsters from one drug gang decapitated the commander of a special strike force and one of his agents in the resort city. Police cannot protect their own men, much less the civilians entrusted to their care.
bulletA poll last spring revealed that half of Mexicans believe their country is on the brink of chaos, that "50 percent of respondents feared the government was on the brink of losing control." Part of the reason was the decreased sense of personal safety that average Mexicans felt due to the violence and corruption they see in their communities.

bulletMexico's oil reserves becoming pumped out. The Calderon government recently announced it would pursue a tax on soft drinks to make up for falling oil revenues. The chief oil field at Cantarell is projected to decline by 14 percent a year between 2007 and 2015. Oil provides 40 percent of the federal budget, so a dry-up at the pumps is serious.

Falling revenues for the government oil monopoly Pemex mean decreased tax receipts and less money to deal with Mexico's many real needs in education, health care and infrastructure. (A systemic source of Mexican enfeeblement is the critically low level of taxation generally, particularly from the rich, who pay zip.)

In a country where the underground untaxed economy is enormous, there's a popular saying among wealthy Mexicans: "If you're paying taxes, you have the wrong accountant."

It's unsurprising then that Mexico raises less revenue through taxation than nearly any other Latin American country, just 12 percent of GDP, which is one reason why the nation's enormous wealth is not better utilized. By comparison, the United States takes in 25-28 percent of its GDP in taxes. Even Brazil taxes itself at twice the Mexican rate.
bulletAt least one American investor decided against putting money into Mexico, specifically $40 million for a project near Zihuatanejo because of crime at levels of social destabilization. Unquestionably there are many unreported others who avoid the narcostate as simply bad business.

Finally, let's consider the daily crisis of Mexico that’s before our eyes. Millions are fleeing >http://focus.co m/latinfocus/countries/latam/latgdppc.htm"> Latin America's wealthiest nation to work in America, where they are despised and exploited. Twenty-five million Mexicans are already here, and 46 percent of those still living in Mexico would leave if they could, according to a 2005 Pew poll.

Not only is Mexico a failing state, it's also a failing society. The country should be a paradise. It has valuable resources, great natural beauty, an ideal location and hard-working people. Its elite do very well indeed.

What it doesn't have is an aversion to corruption. While many Americans live their entire lives without paying a single bribe, mordida [bribery] is endemic in Mexico. Such attitudes lead to dishonest police and politicians. Add a permissive attitude about crime, where smugglers are romanticized  in song, and you have a perfect atmosphere for narcotopia.

How much worse can it get? The issue of law and order in Mexico in the near term hinges on how serious Calderon is about cracking down on the cartels—and whether he can bring meaningful force to bear given the corruption of the army and police. Somalia and Colombia really are the possible models over the long term since cartels are not unlike warlord organizations.

The cartels have virtually unlimited money, and Mexico City is taxing soda pop to raise funds. Increased instability from organized crime will only encourage millions more to abandon the sinking ship and go north, since we know few Mexicans care to stand and fight for their country.

Bottom line: Mexico has an immense problem. Which means the U.S. does, too.

Brenda Walker [email her] her lives in northern California and writes frequently on her websites >http://LimitsToGrowth.org and >http://ImmigrationsHumanCost.org that multiculturalism is a failed ideology, particularly so for women.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   14:07:56 ET  (4 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Jethro Tull (#22)

I had no idea that it was sucking so hard down there.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-05-28   14:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Zipporah (#0)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2007-05-28   15:45:46 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: christine (#12)

we have close friends whose 20 yr old son had a russian friend visit him for about a month. this young man was appalled at the number of cops out on the streets of San Antonio. when told of the constant harrassment and number of insane laws on the books, he said, "we're much freer in Russia!"

we had a Romanian friend who was a political prisoner in a Romanian prison for 9 years who said the same thing. he died shortly before 911, and predicted something of the sort was coming down the road.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-05-28   15:47:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: lodwick, BTP Holdings, El Cid, Poncho, Pippino, Quepasa.com (#23)

Mexico seems to be quite the cluster. I think I'll die here, armed and preferably in bed.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   15:49:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Zipporah (#0)

US citizens who apply for a job will need prior approval from Department of Homeland Security under the terms immigration bill passed by the Senate this week.

I wonder if Chertoff will be issuing Stars of David, for the ones he 'chooses', those of the tribe, and those who swear allegiance and pay taxes to the 'beast', and send the rest of us to the new sanhedrin in Israel for judgement?

re-cap.....

CONTROLLED PRESS HIDES CHERTOFF'S ISRAELI ROOTS *PIC*

Posted By: ChristopherBollyn Date: Friday, 4 March 2005, 1:32 p.m.

Exclusive to American Free Press

Michael Chertoff, the new head of the Department of Homeland Security, was approved in a 98-0 vote in the U.S. Senate without the question of his Israeli roots – and nationality – even being raised.

On February 15, 2005, Michael Chertoff, an apparent dual national with Israeli roots, was sworn in as the second Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The new "homeland security czar," who oversees the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, seems to be hiding his own dual-national status – with the cooperation of the controlled press.

Although the media scrutinized Bernard Kerik, President George W. Bush's first choice to head DHS, and uncovered embarrassing details about his mother, there was no discussion of Chertoff's mother, who played a noteworthy role in the creation of the Zionist state in Palestine.

The omission of Chertoff's mother's Zionist past suggests that there is an effort by the media to conceal his ties to Israel and his status as a "de jure" Israeli national, by birth.

Under Israeli law, a child born to an Israeli citizen, including children born outside of Israel as first generation out of Israel, is considered an Israeli citizen. The child remains an Israeli national until he or she formally renounces their Israeli nationality.

Chertoff was born on November 28, 1953 in Elizabeth, New Jersey, to the New York-born Rabbi Gershon Baruch Chertoff and Livia Eisen, the first hostess for El Al, Israel's state-owned airlines, founded in 1948.

SON OF A RABBI

"The son of a rabbi," The Star-Ledger of Newark, New Jersey, reported on February 16, "Chertoff was born in Elizabeth, graduated from Harvard University in 1975, and received his law degree from Harvard Law School in 1978."

The Star-Ledger, Chertoff's hometown newspaper, however, seems to have omitted mentioning his mother to avoid discussing that Livia [Eisen] Chertoff lived and worked in Israel and was apparently an Israeli national.

The Star-Ledger is well aware of Livia's Israeli roots. Six years ago, in her obituary of December 21, 1998, the paper reported her role in the founding of Israel. "She [Livia Chertoff] was the first airline hostess for El Al airlines and participated in Operation Magic Carpet, the famous airlift of Yemenite Jews to Israel," it reported.

Even in 1998, however, The Star-Ledger was vague about Livia's nationality. "Born in Poland, Mrs. Chertoff lived in Palestine and Elizabeth before moving to Florida several years ago," it wrote.

Israel's citizenship law of 1952 says: "Any Jew who immigrated to Israel before July 14, 1952, was granted citizenship after declaring a desire to reside permanently in Israel." As El Al's first hostess, Livia probably held Israeli citizenship.

Furthermore, a "child born on or after July 14, 1952," is an Israeli citizen if "at least one of whose parents is a citizen of Israel, regardless of the child’s country of birth."

EVASIVE ANSWERS

Secretary Chertoff was evasive when American Free Press asked about his mother's nationality, which if Israeli, would make him an Israeli national.

A "national" is defined as a citizen of a particular nation, while formal citizenship status confers specific rights, duties, and privileges on the citizen.

Asked about the status of Chertoff's mother's nationality, DHS spokesman Brian Roehrkasse provided an evasive answer: "He does not hold, nor has he ever held, dual citizenship."

"While his mother did reside in Israel, he [Chertoff] does not believe she ever held Israeli citizenship," Roehrkasse said. She resided there during the British mandate period (prior to the creation of the state of Israel), later lived in the UK, and he believes she may have held British citizenship at the time she worked for El Al."

Livia reportedly participated in Operation Magic Carpet, the top-secret airlift of some 45,000 Yemenite Jews to Israel from June 1949 to September 1950. Livia's connection with El Al and the secret airlift operations run by Israeli intelligence, indicate she was involved with Israel's intelligence agency, the Mossad.

Operation Magic Carpet was so secret it wasn't even revealed to the press until months after the last of the 380 flights from Yemen had arrived in Israel in late 1950.

Chertoff's children have attended Jewish private schools, and his wife, Meryl Justin, was a co-chair of the regional Anti-Defamation League's (ADL) civil rights committee.

Chertoff is secretive about his childhood, perhaps to avoid discussing the intense Talmudic and Zionist upbringing he received in a family in which all the men were rabbis and scholars of the Talmud.

"My childhood was...average...Nothing stands out. It all kind of blends into the murky past," he told The Star Ledger in March 2001. Pressed for more details, Chertoff "reclined in his chair" and said, "I'll take the Fifth."

Michael's father, Gershon, was the first child of Paul Chertoff from Russia, and Esther Barish, from "Roumania," according to the 1930 U.S. Census. Gershon graduated as a teacher of the Talmud at age 20, in May 1935.

In 1930, the immigrant couple lived in a $90 rented apartment in Brooklyn and had three children, Gershon, Naomi, and Mordecai. Imbued in the Talmud, the Chertoff children became ardent Zionists.

Chertoff's father, Gershon, was a rabbi and teacher of the Talmud, as was his uncle Mordecai. Their father, Paul, was a "teacher" of the Talmud at the Jewish Institute (yeshiva) in New York. When the elder Chertoff died in 1966, he was described as an "Ex-professor of Talmud" in the New York Times.

Naomi also studied the Talmud and was serving her fourth term as national president of the Young Women's Zionist Organization of America when she married in 1946. Naomi had attended Hebrew University in Palestine before Israel became a state on May 16, 1948.

While there are published reports of Chertoff family weddings in New York and London there are no reports in the New York press about the marriage of Chertoff's mother and father.

Because Livia came from Israel and worked for the state owned airlines, it seems probable they were married in Israel.

Given his mother's role in the founding of the Israeli state and the intense Zionist character of his family, it seems likely that Chertoff spent time in Israel as a child.

"My religious and spiritual beliefs are pretty much what I want them to be," he said. Given his background, this suggests he is a Talmudic Jew.

The Talmud is the body of rabbinical law that most American and Israeli Jews follow. The Talmud, however, re-interprets and negates much of the Torah and contains some anti-Christian sentiments. [For a better understanding of the anti-Christian aspects of the Talmud, read Israel Shahak's "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3,000 Years"]

NO OPPOSITION

Unlike other Bush nominees, there was no opposition in the Senate to Chertoff heading DHS. The Senate voted 98-0 to approve Chertoff on February 15. Chertoff, 51, took the oath of office that night in "a private ceremony at the White House."

DHS has a $32 billion budget, 180,000 employees, and jurisdiction over immigration, customs and transportation security, the Coast Guard, the Secret Service and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

The question of Chertoff's dual-nationality doesn't seem to have concerned a single U.S. senator.

"I applaud President Bush for this outstanding choice," said Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.). "We are proud to have a man of his caliber and talent serving and protecting the American people."

"Our country is very fortunate to have someone with the background, experience, the intellect, the qualifications and the integrity of Judge Chertoff," Senator Susan Collins (R – Maine), chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, said.

After six hours of debate, Collins urged the Senate to act quickly on Chertoff's nomination.

During the period before and after the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, Chertoff headed the criminal division at the Department of Justice where he "helped trace the 9/11 terrorist attacks to the al-Qaida network."

Chertoff became Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, by a vote of 95-1 on May 24, 2001. The dissenting vote came from Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (D – N.Y.).

In this position Chertoff was architect of some of the most controversial elements of the Bush administration's domestic war on terrorism and played a central role in formulating the Bush administration's "anti-terrorism policy." He defended the administration's decisions to hold military tribunals for non-U.S. suspect terrorists and to monitor phone conversations between attorneys and their clients.

Chertoff oversaw the detention of 762 foreign nationals for minor immigration violations, although none was charged with a terrorism-related crime. The detention of hundreds of people was necessary to detect "sleeper cells" of terrorists, he said.

"Chertoff headed the Justice Department's criminal division when hundreds of foreigners were swept up on minor charges and held for an average of 80 days," The Washington Post reported. "Some detainees were denied their right to see a lawyer, were not told of the charges against them, or were physically abused."

At the same time, Chertoff allowed scores of suspected Israeli terrorists and spies to quietly return to Israel. In several cases, Israeli suspects working for phoney moving companies, such as Urban Moving Systems from Weehawken, N.J., were caught driving moving vans which tested positive for explosives. On September 14, Dominic Suter, the owner of the moving company, which was found to be a Mossad front company, fled to Israel after FBI agents requested a second interview.

One group of 5 Israelis was seen on the roof of Urban Moving Systems videotaping and celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center. These Israeli agents were returned to Israel on visa violations.

These Israeli suspects, and others, who had apparently transported explosives in the New York area, were allowed to return to Israel without being properly interrogated or their presence and activities in the United States having been vigorously investigated.

Finis

Photo: The new head of "Homeland Security," Michael Chertoff, is the only son of Livia Eisen, El Al's first "hostess" (Israel's state run airlines) and intelligence agent involved in Mossad's "Operation Magic Carpet."

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=66175

...........Bringing the “War on Terrorism” Home

Human rights advocates, civil libertarians, and immigrant rights activists sharply criticized the appointment of Chertoff for his abusive record as Ashcroft’s chief counterterrorism prosecutor. As the architect of the post-September 11th initiatives on the domestic war on terror, Chertoff supervised the round-up of 750 Arabs and other Muslims on suspicion of immigration violations. Treated as suspected terrorist sympathizers or material witnesses, the “suspects” were held without bond for as long as three months, often in solitary confinement, despite having never been charged with any crime. Eventually, most were released or deported after secret tribunals.

In a 2003 report, the Justice Department’s Inspector General criticized these draconian measures as “indiscriminate and haphazard.” The report also concluded that Chertoff and other top government officials instituted a “hold until clear” policy for immigrant detainees even though immigration officials questioned the policy’s legality. In his book After, author Steven Brill describes how Chertoff obstructed access by the post-9/11 detainees to lawyers, reasoning that they “could be questioned without lawyers present because they were not being charged with any crime.”

Not one of the almost exclusively Muslim “detainees” was ultimately indicted for terrorism-related crimes. Chertoff, who also coordinated the aggressive questioning of more than 5,000 Arab Americans immediately after the 9/11 attacks, remains unapologetic and continues to argue that the “war on terrorism” justifies the government’s right to hold suspects indefinitely without counsel as possible “enemy combatants.”

At the outset of his Senate confirmation hearings, the American Civil Liberties Union warned that Chertoff’s record on immigration control and homeland security “suggests he sees the Bill of Rights as an obstacle to national security.” After his confirmation, the ACLU lamented that his appointment “marks the second promotion of a top Bush administration official with ties to the torture scandal. Pointing out that “both Chertoff and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales had a hand in crafting the Bush administration’s torture policies,” the ACLU called for independent counsel to investigate these policies since both new appointees are “too close to the issue to oversee any investigations.”

“Keep your eye on Michael Chertoff,” warned Elaine Cassel in June 2003 when Chertoff was appointed to the court of appeals. Cassel, an attorney who writes for Civil Liberties Watch, observed: “As bad for the law and Constitution as many of Bush’s judicial appointments are, Chertoff has been the architect of prosecutions in the ‘war on terror.’ And he may have big changes in mind for you, me, the courts, and the Constitution.”

No Regrets

Despite the mounting evidence that the administration authorized torture and detained immigrants without probable cause, Chertoff has consistently defended the constitutionality of the Bush administration’s counterterrorism operations at home. In November 2001, at the time when he was directing a national dragnet that targeted the immigrant Muslim population, Chertoff told Congress: “Nobody is being held incommunicado. Nobody is being denied the right to an attorney. Nobody is being denied due process.”

Writing in the Weekly Standard in December 2003, Chertoff defended himself and the Justice Department against charges that the Bush administration had gone beyond the historical precedents in its determination of what is permissible under the U.S. Constitution. According to Chertoff, President Bush has “avoided the kind of harsh measures common in previous wars.”

He argued that although the United States is engaged in a war with both domestic and international fronts, the president has not authorized “evacuation or preventive detention of American citizens based on ethnic heritage.” Nor has there been any “government suppression of dissent or criticism,” wrote Chertoff, adding that unlike such respected predecessors as John Adams or Woodrow Wilson, Bush “has not prosecuted those who argue against the administration, nor has the government seized newspapers or banned them from the mails, as Lincoln did.”

Concerning the detention of “enemy combatants,” Chertoff maintained that the Bush administration followed “customary and well-accepted practice of incapacitating enemy soldiers overseas.” Regarding such matters as deciding “how long combatants can be held when we are fighting a war of extended or indefinite duration,” Chertoff said we must “think outside the box but not outside the Constitution.”

In a June 2004 op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, Chertoff wrote that we cannot win the war against terrorism if we “fight in a legal fog, constantly speculating and litigating piecemeal about what the law might be. A murky legal climate only obscures our options and hamstrings our forces.”

What about the role of the U.S. military or the CIA in home front operations? Chertoff, writing as an appeals court judge, said: “Basic policy questions like this cannot be simply left to the judiciary.”

“Creative Legal Thinking” or a Rollback of the Constitution?

Chertoff believes that it is time for “the most creative legal thinking” about the role of the U.S. justice system in “fighting a war of extended duration.” According to Chertoff, “We are at a transition point in the evolution of legal doctrine to govern the armed conflict of terror.”

One concern of his critics is that Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff—with the strong backing of the president—will roll back civil liberties and institutionalize a more restrictive view of the U.S. Constitution during this transition period......

Homeland Security's Chertoff: No Friend of Immigrants by Tom Barry

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0329-32.htm

Exposing the Zionist Lubavitchers who run the White House and Congress

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/267122.shtml

SIX-POINTED STAR: MARK OF THE BEAST [ I am not saying there is going to be a 'mark' or if there were, that it is going to be the star, but AntiChrist Zionism is certainly a Beast, and the article is interesting at least. It might even wake up a few of Pat Robertson's and John Hagee's people, if they could see it. ]

http://www.watch.pair.com/mark.html

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-05-28   16:50:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#15)

Here's your answer. Self Employment. How hard can it be to get around this shit?

Do you really want the government telling American Citizens who can and can't get a job in this country? If we allow this to stand, they will soon be telling us who can buy and sell.

Self employment is not for everyone, particularly since they have made that more difficult with all their rules and regulations, and since many industries are competing against illegals who are driving down wages with all their free health care, free education for their gaggle of kids, subsidized housing, and the whole bit.

For most people, not being able to work already means they will not be able to 'buy and sell'.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-05-28   16:57:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: willyone (#18)

"his"

It`s hers, so I miss typed, so sue me.

And no one especially a gringo gets in the face of a Mexican cop and demands anything especially against a Mexican. I guess this just goes to show how little you know about how it works down here. What do you think, the Mèxicans are as stupid as the people who listen to the media in the states? The Mèxicans know very well where all of the money they want down here comes from, and they go out of their way to not molest the gringos, unless it is something really, really out of line.

Not to say that they will not put the bite on someone once in a while for a bribe, but that is becoming more and more rare. The city is now advertising, in English, both on the radio and on billboards, and telling everyone that if anyone even hints at a bribe, to come directly to the city offices and report it.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   18:11:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Artisan (#19)

if so I'll ping you to let you know how it's going.

Please, do that. I am always interested in how others fare in Mèxico.

As to the guns, there are more guns down here than you think. A LOT of people have them, including quite a number that I know. As one man told me (after he had known me for a number of years); 'We have more guns than the police do, and they know it!'

That being said, the elite down here have a very justifiable fear of the peasants in this country. A whole h--- of a lot of them got killed the last time there was a revolt in Mèxico, and I will say it again; Mèxicans are not like Americans; they will take to the streets! And it ain't pretty when they do!

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   18:17:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Jethro Tull, willyone, La Raza, All (#20)

the American government cautions its citizens

Nuff said.

As to whether or not there have been problems, sure. However that may be, the basic rules apply no matter where you are; buyer beware, and when you go into some place where you do not know the rules, hey, better be a lot more than aware! There are always crooks, no matter where you go, and you can find the same type of horror stories anywhere in the US! Usually, with an attorney behind the problems rubbing his hands together as he anticipates his profit!

ejido land, communal farmland This type of land, ejido land, IS NOT FOR SALE. It is protected by the Constitution of Mèxico so that the poor can not be evicted from their land. Of course, this is now being changed because of pressure from the US, where the bankers what a clear path to disposses as many in Mèxico as they have in the states. However, I suspect that at the time this story was written, nothing had changed and this land could not be sold, under any circumstances. BUT, someone got a h--- of a deal on some very cheap land, I suspect, and hey! WHY NOT!!! We all know those dumb Mèxicans are just dumb!

Oops! No such thing as a free lunch, doncha know.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   18:27:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Jethro Tull, BTP Holdings, all (#22)

It's unsurprising then that Mexico raises less revenue through taxation than nearly any other Latin American country,

Jesus, this story is so full of shit, I hardly know where to start! But hey, anything you hear in the main stream media is THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH DONCHA KNOW!!!

But this sentance is a very good example. Mèxico actually has a pretty good Constitution, unlike the United States, and the people here are protected, esp. from taxation. If the average Mèxican does not ENTER INTO A CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENT WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, HE PAYS NO TAXES!!! He is NOT required to have a Social Security number, unless he/she is a professional, lic. by the state.

If you will both please remember back to when I posted the ENABLING ACT info for Social Security in the US, showing it is actually an Income Tax, and thus a contractual nexus for ALL US citizens to pay the income tax, you will begin to see what I mean.

As to the rest of the story, BULLSHIT! Are there problems in a few areas? Yes, specifically in New Larado and in Mèxico City... but why anyone would like to live in either one is beyond me. And yes, I have relatives that live in Mèxico City, and we visit all of the time. Nothing is nearly as bad as what this story paints, which shows that this is simply another piece of BS from the media in the US!!

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   18:39:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: richard9151 (#32)

It's unsurprising then that Mexico raises less revenue through taxation than nearly any other Latin American country

Are you saying this statement from the article isn't true?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   19:07:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Jethro Tull, robin, christine, all (#33)

Are you saying this statement from the article isn't true?

On the contrary; I am saying that it is ABSOLUTELY true, and it is true because the protections within the Constitution of Mèxico have not been undone, and, BECAUSE the people of Mèxico, most of them, are wiser than most Americans and WILL NOT enter into contracts with the federal government.

And what, Jethro, are you maintaining that a lack of taxation is a VERY BAD thing, cause it halts the growth of the government?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   19:13:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: richard9151 (#34)

And what, Jethro, are you maintaining that a lack of taxation is a VERY BAD thing, cause it halts the growth of the government?

I'm maintaining there isn't much to tax in 3rd world nations, ergo the lowest taxation rate in Latin America. But fear not. The moment the Mexican govt. finds a way to tax the nation’s largest industry (Narcotic traffic) it will :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   19:27:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Jethro Tull (#26)

I think I'll die here, armed and preferably in bed.

Unless they get the stupid http://www.freedomship.com going on, same here.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-05-28   19:37:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: richard9151 (#30)

That being said, the elite down here have a very justifiable fear of the peasants in this country. A whole h--- of a lot of them got killed the last time there was a revolt in Mèxico, and I will say it again; Mèxicans are not like Americans; they will take to the streets! And it ain't pretty when they do!

Good to know - it's way past time for lots of us to do more than take to the streets.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-05-28   19:51:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Jethro Tull, robin, all (#35)

I'm maintaining there isn't much to tax in 3rd world nations,

Do you have any idea, Jethro, how big the ecomony of Mèxico is!?

The economy of Mexico was the 15th largest in the world in 2006[1] with a gross domestic product that surpassed a trillion dollars in 2004[2], measured in purchasing power parity. Mexico has a free market and export-oriented economy and is firmly established as an upper middle-income country with the highest income per capita in Latin America, in market exchange rates. Mexico is the only Latin American member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

Perhaps, Jethro, you should check a few facts once in a while before you stick your foot in your mouth! And one of the biggest reasons that this economy is so robust and growing so fast, IS THE LACK OF TAXATION ON THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you get that, Jethro, and, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   19:54:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Jethro Tull (#26)

Mexico seems to be quite the cluster.

It's long past time for the militia to form up and the Sheriff's to activate the Posse Comitatus.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2007-05-28   19:56:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: lodwick (#36)

Freedom ship, eh? Has it a pub(s)?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   19:58:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Zipporah (#0)

No jobs for US citizens without Homeland Security approval

No FEDERAL JOB is the way it should read.

But the stupid sheeple and the blind idiots in the business world will go along with this crap just like they have done with the payroll withholding scheme.

The solution is, do not claim to be a U.S. citizen.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2007-05-28   20:03:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Jethro Tull, lodwick, BTP Holdings, willyone, La Raza, TommyTheMadArtist, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt, Zipporah, Artisan, Pissed Off Janitor, who knows what evil, christine, all (#35)

The moment the Mexican govt. finds a way to tax the nation’s largest industry (Narcotic traffic) it will :)

So we get past the nonsense that people such as Jethro post, will everyone please read number 38? I appreciate it, and I think you will be just a little surprised.

As to this statement above, I happen to agree wholeheartedly! The drug problem in Mèxico comes from the US, and legalizing the problem here, and taxing it, would solve a lot of problems. BUT, everytime that Mèxico comes close (and they have come real close to doing this!) to this solution, pressure comes from north of the border, i.e., from the US government. Ever wonder why?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   20:04:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Jethro Tull (#40)

Pubs?

On every cruise ship that I've ever sailed, the pubs outnumber anything else - but better yet, are the duty-free shops where there is no taxation of any sort to be paid.

Booze is typically half the price that we pay in-country.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-05-28   20:04:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: richard9151 (#38)

Do you have any idea, Jethro, how big the ecomony of Mèxico is!?

Ah.....your economy is a big as the transnationals chooses to make it. When and if your rogue government refuses to kiss their ass, they will fold their tents and leave your Mecca in the dust searching for more reasonable labor. In fact this is already happening. I bet I’ll be able to pick up a tin roof hut on the cheap when that inevitable day comes.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   20:05:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Jethro Tull (#44)

they will fold their tents and leave your Mecca

You mean, kind of like they have already left the good ole US of A?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-28   20:07:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: lodwick (#43)

Excellent. Sobriety will be left stateside where it belongs

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   20:07:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: richard9151 (#45)

You mean, kind of like they have already left the good ole US of A?

Are u speaking in code? Translation please.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   20:11:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: BTP Holdings (#39)

and the Sheriff's to activate the Posse Comitatus

They've all become little tools of the federal government. They're picking out their retirement fishing poles and could care less about the state of the nation or their obligations.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-28   20:17:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: lodwick (#36)

Unless they get the stupid http://www.freedomship.com going on, same here.

Being as their last "news" update was over two years ago and they no longer seem to have any graphics on their website I'm afraid it looks like the "Freedom ship" is, pardon the pun, "dead in the water".

Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2007-05-28   20:33:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Elliott Jackalope (#49)

"...I'm afraid it looks like the "Freedom ship" is, pardon the pun, "dead in the water".

DOA they may be.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-05-29   8:19:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: richard9151 (#30)

That being said, the elite down here have a very justifiable fear of the peasants in this country.

Indeed. White hispanics shouldn't trust those with more Indian blood.

Don't waste your pucker on some all-thing sucker.

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-29   12:51:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: willyone, Jethro Tull (#18)

I guess I am saying your story is bullshit.

Of course it is, and it's utterly transparent. It's the complement of open borders, an oblique approach. If you buy it, you'll be more receptive to open borders.

Don't waste your pucker on some all-thing sucker.

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-29   13:47:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: richard9151 (#10)

As the police explained to him, they could not do that, as Mèxican law forbade them from entering into the man`s home without a court order obtained legally, and based on eyewitness testimony.

What a dufus. And to think, this fool is part of the problem of violation of substantive rights here.

I've heard countless stories, and seen them on shows like COPS, where they police act so far outside their authority and without a warrant it is simply unbelievable.

Jerks like him are the ones who cheer on the cops in those situations.

He should be thrown in the stocks on the public square so folks can humiliate him for being an enabler of the police state.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2007-05-29   13:54:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Tauzero, all (#52) (Edited)

It's the complement of open borders, an oblique approach. If you buy it, you'll be more receptive to open borders.

Good point. The glory of the Mexican nation is absurd, especially for white Americans. I have no idea what color Richard is, but living in Mexico isn't utopia. If it were, the current invasion we're experiencing would be flowing in the opposite direction. Just Google Mexico and violent crime and the stories are endless.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   13:56:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Jethro Tull, Tauzero, willyone, all (#54)

The glory of the Mexican nation is absurd, especially for white Americans.

No body said anything about glory; if Americans, of whatever color, come down here, the first thing they must do is CONTRACT to pay the taxes. Mèxicans are not stupid; they do not extend the rights of their citizens to all johnny-come- latelys.

No body said anything about utopia. I said, there is a LOT more freedom here than there is in the states. A LOT MORE. With a lot less interference from the police, and part of that is that the Mèxicans know very well that they need tourists from the states, and bad stories about how tourists, and any Americans are injured/robbed down here, hurt the tourist trade. Badly.

And the invasion into the United States is by people who have been chased off of their anscetral lands, where they have lived and rasied families for generations, because of NAFTA and the improtation of garbage food from the states.

As to crime rates, pretty hard for anyone living in the US to knock crime in some other courtry. Course, I understand that you two live here, so you probably understand a lot more than I do.... NOT!

And by the way, my eyes are blue.....

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   16:47:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: BTP Holdings (#53)

What a dufus. And to think, this fool is part of the problem of violation of substantive rights here.

You are correct, and the contradictions in his beliefs never even enter into his thinking.

It is kind of like Jethro trying to start an argument with me based on his belief that perhaps Mèxico's biggest problem is simply that they do not tax their citizens enough! Do you ever wonder if such people ever think before they write/speak?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   17:09:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Tauzero, willyone, Jethro Tull, all (#52)

I guess I am saying your story is bullshit.

Of course it is, and it's utterly transparent.

What is it with you guys; pure racism, or just ignorance? Or, is it just that, hey!, those suckers in Mèxico mus be dum cause they don even unerstan plain english!

Here are two rules for you all to think about;

Rule number 1; all people every where are just about equal in intelligence. They may think a little different because of the form of their language, but just because they don`t understand English is not an excuse to treat them as dumb. On the other hand, people who get most of their info and beliefs from the major media in the United States, and accept it as gospel, well, they can certainly be rated as lacking in basic common sense, even if not actually rated as stupid. And that, frankly, is where most of what you clowns think you know about Mèxico comes from; the TV/radio/newspapers in the Untied States.

Rule number 2; Generally speaking, people do not cut off their own noses to spite their faces. They just don't do it! And given that Mèxicans are not stupid (HEY! TRILLION DOLLAR ECONOMY LAST YEAR!), then anyone with a lick of sense would understand that the average Mèxican DOES NOT HATE NOR PICK ON THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WHEN THAT AMERICAN VISITS MÈXICO. Why do you suppose that is? Cause that American is bringing m-o-n-e-y to Mèxico! And if the Mèxicans cause trouble for the Americans, then the m-o-n-e-y flow across the border dries up. What is truly interesting about this is that the average Mèxican is much, much better than the average United States citizen is in separating the actions of the government from the actions of the average citizen (of whatever nation).

In point of fact, what the average Mèxican has learned, long ago, IS DO NOT CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR THE AMERICANS OR WE POLICE WILL LAND ON YOU WITH 6 OR 8 FEET! And the police do not cause problems for the average Americans either, cause their jobs depend on keeping the hotel and other large business owners happy....... or someone else gets their job. And anyone with a lick of sense, who had any idea of just how much building is going on in what is called the free zone, that (about) 25 mile wide strip just inside the Mèxican/US border, would understand this without needing to be hit over the head with it.

But hey! What do I know. There is only, roughly, 8,000 Americans here in this small town (not all permenant resisdents), with hundreds more planning on moving here to fill up all of the hundereds of new homes under construction, so, I must be about the only one who thinks as I do..... donchaknow.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   17:33:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: richard9151, all (#55)

And the invasion into the United States is by people who have been chased off of their anscetral lands, where they have lived and rasied families for generations

Are you saying the open border invasion of America by Mexicans is justified because California, and Texas as examples, are actually Mexican anscetral lands?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   18:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Tauzero, willyone, robin, BTP Holdings, IndieTX, Americans for Closed Borders, ALL (#58)

Ping to the above.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   18:18:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Jethro Tull (#58)

Are you saying the open border invasion of America by Mexicans is justified because California, and Texas as examples, are actually Mexican anscetral lands?

That's a lie.

Native Americans of CA chased Mexicans back to Mexico many times.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-05-29   18:20:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: robin (#60)

Yep. I think Mr. Mexico is taking the same immigration position as Morris Dees.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   18:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: richard9151 (#55)

I said, there is a LOT more freedom here than there is in the states. A LOT MORE

Do you carry a gun?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   18:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: robin (#60)

Robin is correct in 60 in her history. I wish so much that young Americans were taught that in school. They indoctrinated with poison against our country, and so are the Mexicans.

There were a lot of violent conflicts between the Mexicans and natives of Arizona. In both Texas & in California they had revolutions in the 1830's where the Mexican government was chased out. and then they had the Mexican- American war in late 1840's. At the time when Mexican-American war ended around 1846 and all those western states were surrendered by Mexico only about 5% of who were then Mexicans lived north of today's border. and a lot of those 5% were more loyal to America than to Mexico - witness the revolutions in California & Texas where ethnic Mexicans fought against Mexico. Today it is like 40% of the ethnic Mexicans that live in our country I personally think. A lot of them have blended in with the Americans. The reality is that there's been a huge migration north and they're not natives.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-05-29   18:27:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#58)

Are you saying the open border invasion of America by Mexicans is justified because California, and Texas as examples, are actually Mexican anscetral lands?

Are you really that dense, Jethro? When did NAFTA take effect, Jethro, and when did the importation of farm-factory produced food into Mèxico from the states start, Jethro? Perhaps if you can answer those two questions, you can start to put a date as to when the so-called invasion from Mèxico actually became a problem.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   18:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Jethro Tull (#62)

Do you carry a gun?

No. Do you? And if you do, why do you? Does walking the streets in your beautiful US scare the bejesus out of you so that you need to carry a gun to feel safe? If you do, I feel sorry for you, cause I can go outside anytime of the day or night here, walk around, go have a beer, anything I want, AND SO CAN MY WIFE, in perfect safty.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   18:34:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: richard9151 (#65)

If your wife or daughter were blonde and blue-eyed would that still be true?

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-05-29   18:37:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Red Jones, robin (#63)

Robin is correct in 60 in her history. I wish so much that young Americans were taught that in school. They indoctrinated with poison against our country, and so are the Mexicans.

Kind of like Americans are indoctrinated with hatred against Mèxico, and Mèxicans, right?

To bad a few more Americans do not wake up and understand that someone is doing the indoctrination on both sides of the border. There are actually many more Mèxicans aware that what they are being taught ain`t the truth than there are Americans.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   18:37:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: robin (#66)

If your wife or daughter were blonde and blue-eyed would that still be true?

Absolutely, Robin. Go up and read number 57.

Many many Americans party hearty down here day and night. Walk around, go into the Cantinas, shop and eat, visit the beach. Very, very few problems. A lot fewer than you would see in the states, I wager.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   18:40:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: richard9151 (#64)

And the invasion into the United States is by people who have been chased off of their anscetral lands, where they have lived and rasied families for generations

These are your words. Please explain.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   18:41:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: richard9151 (#68)

I'm glad to hear it, but the same is not true anywhere near the border. And I doubt if it is true in Mexico City either. But the tourist towns are likely safer.

However, a recent article posted here, written by an ex-pat in Mexico, suggested that a single woman would probably not like Mexico.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-05-29   18:42:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Jethro Tull, robin, all (#61)

Yep. I think Mr. Mexico is taking the same immigration position as Morris Dees.

No stupid comments, Jethro, as is your normal mode of operation. Quotes. Tell me where I have said anything at all about immigration. Open borders. About allowing more Mèxicans into the states.

Quotes, Jethro. I post everything on 4um in the open, so I assume you have proof of your BS, right?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   18:43:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: richard9151 (#65)

No. Do you?

Yes, I carry. Do you? Does the Mexican govt. allow you to?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   18:45:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: richard9151, Jethro Tull, robin, willyone (#55)

Course, I understand that you two live here, so you probably understand a lot more than I do.... NOT!

George Carlin had a nice joke about some parents trying to get a kid to eat some food that was "good for him."

Carlin in slow, superior voce: "How do you know you don't like it if you've never even tried?"

Carlin as not-to-be-tricked kid: "It came to me in a dream!"

Richard's correct I don't understand what it's like in a knowledge-by-acquaintance way. Is such knowledge-by-acquaintance necessary before analysis and decision? Why should I want such acquaintance?

There are only two ways for me to gain such knowledge-by-acquaintance. Either move there myself, or invite Mexicans to my neighborhood. So once again we have an oblique approach.

Don't waste your pucker on some all-thing sucker.

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-29   18:48:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Tauzero (#73)

Either move there myself, or invite Mexicans to my neighborhood. So once again we have an oblique approach.

laughing sideways ;)

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-05-29   18:51:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: richard9151 (#71)

Tell me where I have said anything at all about immigration. Open borders. About allowing more Mèxicans into the states.

It's all in #58; your quote and my question. Answer please....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   18:52:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Jethro Tull (#69)

These are your words. Please explain.

Cute, Jethro, and right up your alley, as usual. Just quote a part of the message, right?

Here is the part I posted in number 55 above; andyone who wishes can go up there and read it in full;

And the invasion into the United States is by people who have been chased off of their anscetral lands, where they have lived and rasied families for generations, because of NAFTA and the importation of garbage food from the states.

Now, what part of that relates to California and Texas in the 1840s? Did they have NAFTA then? How about factory farms? Big item in the southwest in the 1840s, right?

But just to clear up any problems with your understanding (impossible!), what happened with NAFTA is that the border between Mèxico and the US was opened completely for food, and the US began shipping all of the excess food THAT THEY WERE HAVING TROUBLE SELLING IN OTHER NATIONS because of various things (such as genetic tampering) into Mèxico, where thousands of families began to find that they could no longer support their families on the land that had been in their families for generations.

Little pieces of land, Jethro, usually less than 25 acres; land that they still worked with mules and horses for draft animals. Poor people, Jethro, who sold one or two hogs a year, maybe a hundred bushels of corn and various other food stuffs like chilis and melons. Just enough for money to buy clothing, coffee, cigerattes, some salt and etc. Enough to live on, Jethro, and all of a sudden, in just one year, it all changed with NAFTA, and if you care enough, you can find the info about this on the web.

Those families were driven off of the land, just as 25 million families have been driven off of the land in the US. And they had two choices; into the cities and compete for work that they were not trained for, or, head for the border to the north.

To bad, Jethro, you do not understand the dynamics of what is being done to your own country, much less to others.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   18:57:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Tauzero (#73)

Richard's correct I don't understand what it's like in a knowledge-by-acquaintance way. Is such knowledge-by-acquaintance necessary before analysis and decision? Why should I want such acquaintance?

There are only two ways for me to gain such knowledge-by-acquaintance. Either move there myself, or invite Mexicans to my neighborhood. So once again we have an oblique approach.

Oh absolutely! ABSOLUTELY!! It makes much more sense to watch the evening news, listen to a couple of talking heads on TV, maybe Rushy Baby for some REAL TRUTH, read the Wall Street Journal, and then, then, you will have all of the information that you could possibly use!

Don`t we just see it all now... that redwhiteandblue rainbow over those golden shores....... ITS THE ONLY PLACE WORTH LIVING ON EARTH!

Well, good luck. Hope you enjoy the furture, cause you sure demonstrate where the problems come from; ignorance and intolerance. You do not know, you admit you do not know, and you still will make decisions as if you know. Ummmmm, sounds just like voters in the United States....

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   19:06:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Jethro Tull (#75)

Tell me where I have said anything at all about immigration. Open borders. About allowing more Mèxicans into the states. It's all in #58; your quote and my question. Answer please....

You still have not told me, Jethro, where are the quotes BY ME about open borders, immigration into the US, permitting more Mèxicans in, and etc.

And just quotes, Jethro. No nonsense like you normally post.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-29   19:07:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: richard9151 (#76) (Edited)

anscetral (Mexican) lands (in the USA)

I assume you believe in sovereign national borders for both America and Mexico. Right? Further, I assume you oppose the current unfettered illegal Mexican immigration into America by this uneducated brown horde. Right?

On which side of the border are these anscetral Mexican lands you speak of? Please identify their geographical location and, if they are located in the USA, please identify the right of Mexican title to the land. Thanks.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   19:14:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: richard9151 (#78)

And the invasion into the United States is by people who have been chased off of their anscetral lands, where they have lived and rasied families for generations, because of NAFTA and the improtation of garbage food from the states.

Your above quote is from #55. You call it an invasion. I agree.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-29   19:16:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: richard9151 (#77)

Oh absolutely! ABSOLUTELY!! It makes much more sense to watch the evening news, listen to a couple of talking heads on TV, maybe Rushy Baby for some REAL TRUTH, read the Wall Street Journal, and then, then, you will have all of the information that you could possibly use!

Actually I go more by the reports of my world-traveling sister. Her business of many years is small group scuba/diving tours, which she leads personally ( but I suspect she and/or her husband sometimes moonlight as mules, and I know she's greased a few palms.)

ITS THE ONLY PLACE WORTH LIVING ON EARTH!

Well, I think so, but that's just me. And I hate the coasts. I'll always be a cheesehead. Unfortunately lots of Mexicans think the U.S. is good, too. They'll eventually ruin what they came for, but in the meantime I can certainly understand the "get while the gettin's good" approach.

You do not know, you admit you do not know

Knowledge is not free, especially the kind you insist upon as a form of credential before discussion. That insistence is nothing more (or less) than begging the very question under consideration, as I'm sure you'll realize, if you think about it.

Don't waste your pucker on some all-thing sucker.

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-29   19:29:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Jethro Tull (#79)

Jethro, your ignorance is beyond belief. Not to mention your blind hatred.

You and Taz have it all figured out; 2 plus 2`plus 2 is ... wait! Wait! I GOT IT! 5! It has to be!

The problem is that Federal Reserve of Mèxico! THAT'S IT!!! It's those dumb Mèxicans that have created our unpayable debt!!!

And it's those, what is it, Jethro, 10 brigades of Mèxican troops serving in Iraq, right? THAT'S THE PROBLEM! If Mèxico had not sucked us into this war, everything would be just dandy!!

And the chemicals in out air and water, like, ya know, flouride, there has to exist proof that this is a MÊXICAN plot!!!

And we all know that it has been the Mèxican government that instituted the plan back in the 30s that has forced 25 million Americans off of their family farms. YOU BET!!!

IT'S ALL A MÈXICAN PLOT!! EVERY BIT OF IT!!

AND; we have been so successful in closing our borders to drugs, why, it is obvious to anyone with a lick of sense that IT WILL BE EASY TO CLOSE OUR BORDERS TO THOSE MEX HORDES. Esp. now that the same type of programs that chased all of those Americans off of their farms, why, now the Mex government is using it against their own people!

Why don't you and Taz wake up, Jethro. The people of Mèxico, hard as you find it to believe, are just people who want to eat, and live, and make little babies, and, they are not your enemy. Get the propaganda out of your head, cause it rots everything when you let it inside!

The enemy is in Washington, DC, and in London (twice! Britian and The City!), Paris, Berlin, Rome (twice again! The Vatican), New York, Tel Aviv, Mèxico City, AND EVERY OTHER CAPITAL CITY UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

Course, that does not let you strut around with your gun and play like a big tough guy, right? Gotta find someone smaller, mayhap weaker than you to play against. Got a surprise for you, Jethro, this ain`t a game to anyone but you and those who think like you and ignore facts.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-30   10:47:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Jethro Tull (#79)

I assume you believe in sovereign national borders for both America and Mexico. Right?

ABSOLUTELY! I admire the steps that Mèxico takes that ensure that anyone entering into Mèxico and planning to stay has a means of supporting themselves. Very intelligent.

you oppose the current unfettered illegal Mexican immigration into America What unfettered immigration?! The laws have been passed and are on the books which welcome these people in... PASSED BY YOUR POLITICIANS! Giving them free medical care, free schooling, free benefits, and their has been posts done on 4um showing how businesses send buses TO THE BORDER TO PICK UP THE WORKERS AND CARRY THEM INTO THE HEARTLAND OF AMERICA! But hey, it is just a Mèxican plot, right?

uneducated brown horde. Jeez, Jethro, does nothing shame you? You let your stupidity shine right on through... no matter what? What constitutes uneducated to you, Jethro, they do not speakum the english? Is that it? My wife is a teacher in Mèxico, Jethro, of ... MATHMATICS!! Get that? And, she is very good at it. In fact, she is one of the very few people I have met in my life that is as quick with numbers as I am. My nephew just graduated from the University. One of my nieces just graduated as an engineer about three years ago. One of my sisters-in-laws is a teacher, as are two of my brothers- in-laws. HERE IS A SHOCKER FOR YOU, JETHRO! THEY HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF SCHOOLS IN MÈXICO!!

And how about if we discuss, instead, the ancestral lands of the American farmers that have been chased off of their lands. It is more to the point, cause the Zionist learned a long time ago that the way to control people is to control their food. So, today, Jethro, you live in the big ol US of A; one of the few countries in the world that can no longer feed itself. BUT HEY! IT IS ALL A MÈXICAN PLOT!!

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-30   10:59:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Tauzero (#81)

Knowledge is not free,

You got that right, Taz. Now go read 82 and 83, and tell me what else is new on this green earth.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-30   11:01:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: richard9151 (#83)

anscetral (Mexican) lands (in the USA)

Hmmm...still no answer to my #79? I'm not surprised....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-30   11:23:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: richard9151 (#83) (Edited)

My wife is a teacher in Mèxico, Jethro, of ... MATHMATICS!! Get that? And, she is very good at it. In fact, she is one of the very few people I have met in my life that is as quick with numbers as I am. My nephew just graduated from the University. One of my nieces just graduated as an engineer about three years ago. One of my sisters-in-laws is a teacher, as are two of my brothers- in-laws. HERE IS A SHOCKER FOR YOU, JETHRO! THEY HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF SCHOOLS IN MÈXICO!!

HEY PONCHO. I WOULDN'T BRAG ABOUT YOUR CONNECTION TO THE MEXICAN SCHOOL SYSTEM :)

MEXICO'S EDUCATION SYSTEM RANKS LAST AMONG MEMBERS OF ORGANIZATION FOR ECONOMIC COOPERATION AND DEVELOPMENT.

From: SourceMex Economic News & Analysis on Mexico

 | Date: September 22, 2004

 | More results for: mexico's school system

Mexico continues to lag behind other semi-industrialized and industrialized nations in the quality of its education, a factor that some analysts say has contributed to the country's stunted economic development.

In a report published in mid-September, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) ranked Mexico's educational system last among 28 member countries in the quality of education.

All OECD countries except Mexico made advances in improving their educational systems between 1995 and 2003. The report noted that South Korea, a country that had rankings similar to Mexico a generation ago, has vaulted to the top because of the reforms to education implemented in that country. South Korea has been able to develop a highly skilled work force, which produces some of the world's most popular cars and electronics. In contrast, Mexico's work force is made up largely of assembly workers and other manual laborers.

The report acknowledged that Mexico has boosted educational expenditures since 1995 by 36% at the primary and secondary levels and by 22% for higher education. Even with these increases, the amount spent by the Mexican government for each student has declined by 10%. The OECD said the Mexican government spends about US$1,357 per student at the primary level, roughly one- fourth of the average expenditure for all OECD members for the same purpose.

"If Mexico uses itself as a point of reference, then educational expenditures have indeed increased since 1995," said Andreas Schleicher, who heads the OECD's education-monitoring division. "At the international level, the picture is radically different."

About 97% of the new money spent by the government on education since 1995 has been devoted to increasing teacher salaries, a testament to the strength of Mexico's teachers union (Sindicato Nacional de Trabajadores de la Educacion, SNTE).

While experts agree that improving the quality and the number of teachers is a crucial element of education, the government has failed to take other actions that would enhance education, such as constructing new schools and improving infrastructure, curriculum development, and student retention.

"The trend in Mexico's education expenditures is not typical of the other OECD member countries," said the report.

Expenditures low on infrastructure, student retention

The lack of expenditures on infrastructure is also affecting the quality of public education. Some communities do not have enough school buildings to accommodate the number of students who want an education, forcing local educational authorities to use split schedules. This limits the day at public elementary schools to four hours, compared with six or more hours at private institutions.

In some rural and inner- city communities, students have to attend school in crumbling buildings that often lack basic plumbing and leak during heavy rains.

In many cases, public-school students have to pay extra fees to cover the cost of paper, pencils, and other supplies. To cover the cost of paper, one school in Mexico state was charging students 4 pesos (US$0.35) to take a monthly exam.

President Vicente Fox's administration has sought to address the problem partially by expanding an anti-poverty program that pays some parents every month they keep their children in school. But this only benefits a handful of families, since many do not meet the poverty qualifications for participation in the program.

The Mexican government on occasion receives grants or loans from multilateral organizations to improve education. In July of this year, the World Bank approved a US$300 million loan to support Mexico's basic-education- development program, which provides extra support to education for disadvantaged groups, such as children living in rural or marginal urban areas, and handicapped, migrant, and indigenous children. The loan is the third and final phase of the Basic Education Development Program, which the World Bank has been supporting in Mexico since its inception in 1991.

Mexican students fare poorly in aptitude tests

One measure of Mexico's progress--or lack of progress--in education is the aptitude levels of students. In a standardized global evaluation test called the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), Mexican ninth graders placed 34th among the 41 nations participating in the exam and last among the 28 OECD member nations. The same OECD study ranked Mexico last among member countries on the reading ability of 15-year-old youths. Only 6.9% of Mexican students surveyed had a high reading ability, compared with the median of 31.2% for the OECD members.

The poor ranking in education has been an embarrassment for Mexico, which is attempting to portray itself as an emerging industrialized country. The reality is that Mexican education still displays patterns of many lesser-developed countries, such as a high dropout rate at the primary level, particularly in rural areas. About 10% of students drop out of the educational system before completing middle school to take an unskilled job to help support their families.

"There is a bottleneck in the system," Eduardo Velez Bustillo, education section manager for Latin America for the World Bank, told the Los Angeles Times. "Quality is bad at every level, but middle school is a crisis point because that's where the demand is highest."

Mexico's poor educational results have brought an outcry from the business community. It is urging President Fox's government to overhaul the entire system, which offers students little more than basic skills like reading, writing, and arithmetic. Business leaders say Mexico is still unable to compete with better-trained work forces in other countries and has to settle for low-skilled assembly jobs.

On average, Mexicans attain only a seventh-grade education, and just two of every 10 students receive a college education.

"A country without education is a country that won't develop, and our system is even worse than people say," said Isaac Katz, an economics professor at the Instituto Tecnologico Autonomo de Mexico (ITAM). "No one is responsible for quality, results aren't measured, and parents have no voice."

Poor educational system hurts Mexico's competitive position

Some analysts worry that the lack of an educated work force in the long run will keep Mexico from attracting the type of high-value foreign investment that the economy needs. "I see a significant deterioration in competitiveness in Mexico's future," said Eduardo Andere, a professor of international studies at the ITAM. "In social terms, that means more poverty, more insecurity, and more inequality."

Despite the pleas from experts and business leaders, the Fox government has failed to produce any innovative plans for education and has proposed meager increases in expenditures for primary and secondary education in 2005. In its budget proposal for 2005, the Fox government requested about 300.6 billion pesos (US$26.3 billion) for primary and secondary education, an increase of only 1.1% from the amount approved in the 2004 budget.

"Once again, the executive branch fails to comply with a mandate from Congress to increase resources for education, with the goal of eventually reaching funding equivalent to 8% of GDP in 2006," said a statement from the education committee (Comision de Educacion) in the Chamber of Deputies.

Furthermore, the committee criticized the Fox government for proposing to channel some of the increased expenditures in education to "unnecessary bureaucratic costs," such as a higher budget for public relations for the Secretaria de Educacion Publica (SEP).

The full Chamber of Deputies is expected to consider an increase in funding for education, but even the legislative branch may not be able to boost federal allocations by the 87 billion pesos (US$7.6 billion) needed this year to comply with the goals established by Congress to meet the target of 8% of GDP. Education funding will be competing with other social programs, even though Mexico continues to enjoy a windfall from higher-than- expected oil-export revenues. Those additional revenues have been earmarked for allocation to state governments and payments of the domestic and foreign debt.

Responding to the criticisms, Public Education Secretary Reyes Tamez Guerra said the Fox government is not in a position to meet the congressional goals unless the Chamber of Deputies and the Senate approve comprehensive tax reforms to allow the government to increase revenues. He said the lack of revenues also blocked Mexico from matching the expenditures of other developing countries like South Korea, Chile, Poland, and Hungary.

"We have to continue efforts to boost investment [in education]," said Tamez Guerra. "But we will not be able to catch up to the other countries as long as our GDP remains stagnant and as long as we lack structural reforms to allow us to boost revenues."

Expenditures also lag for higher education

The debate about funding levels also extends to higher education, where Mexico devotes less than half the average funding levels for OECD countries. OECD statistics show the government's funding for public higher education amounts to about US$4,000 per student, compared with the average of US$10,000 for OECD countries. This is despite the heavily subsidized college tuition at the Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico (UNAM) and other public universities. A government effort to raise tuition and fees slightly in 1999 was met with a massive demonstration (see SourceMex, 1999-06-02 and 2000-01-26).

In its 2005 budget plan, the Fox government has proposed minor reductions in expenditures for higher education. The plan would reduce funding to public colleges and universities to the equivalent of 0.48% of GDP, compared with about 0.50% of GDP in 2004. Expenditures for research in science and technology, which are separate from the higher-education budget, would decline to 0.35% of GDP, compared with 0.38% of GDP last year.

"I cannot remain silent when the government each year reduces rather than increases the budgets for research and development and science and technology," UNAM rector Juan Ramon de la Fuente said during a meeting with Tamez Guerra and Public Health Secretary Julio Frenk Mora.

The UNAM rector has received the support of the Instituto Politecnio Nacional (IPN) and the Asociacion Nacional de Universidades e Instituciones de Educacion Superior (ANUIES). ANUIES president Jorge Luis Ibarra Mendivil said the government has to increase expenditures for higher education by about 55 billion pesos (US$4.8 billion) this year to meet the needs of colleges and universities.

"The federal budget lacks resources to expand enrollment or to improve the quality of education," said Ibarra Mendivil. "The lack of funding also affects our strategy to implement structural changes to pensions and retirements [for university employees]," he added. [Note: Peso-dollar conversions in this article are based on the Interbank rate in effect on Sept. 22, reported at 11.40 pesos per US$1.00] (Sources: The Dallas Morning News, 11/19/02; Reforma, 09/17/03; The Washington Post, 11/24/03; World Bank press release, 07/01/04; El Financiero, Agencia de noticias Proceso, 09/14/04, 09/21/04; Notimex, Los Angeles Times, 09/21/04; La Jornada, 09/15/04, 09/22/04; El Universal, 09/15/04, 09/21/04, 09/22/04; La Cronica de Hoy, 09/22/04)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-30   11:40:15 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: richard9151 (#84)

IT WILL BE EASY TO CLOSE OUR BORDERS TO THOSE MEX HORDES.

Yes it will be, if that's what we want, and we are willing to accept the consequences.

The people of Mèxico, hard as you find it to believe, are just people who want to eat, and live, and make little babies,

Of course they are.

they are not your enemy.

They can prove that by leaving. Nothing less will suffice. But it's really beside the point. Mexicans ruin areas for white Americans not because they want to, but because of who they are.

AND EVERY OTHER CAPITAL CITY UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

But of course.

I admire the steps that Mèxico takes that ensure that anyone entering into Mèxico and planning to stay has a means of supporting themselves. Very intelligent.

Indeed. I also approve of their use of the military in this regard ( except for the rapes and robbery.) I disapprove of the aid the Mexican government gives to Mexicans who want to move north.

But hey, it is just a Mèxican plot, right?

A confluence of interests, rather.

HERE IS A SHOCKER FOR YOU, JETHRO! THEY HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF SCHOOLS IN MÈXICO!!

Which can only do a small amount of good, in light of the lower average IQ of Mexicans, shorter time preference, and higher impulsiveness. Mexico is not poor and backwards because of corruption and false leadership. Mexico is poor, backwards, and corrupt because of Mexicans.

The same is true of America's ills. But they are our ills.

Don't waste your pucker on some all-thing sucker.

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-30   11:42:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: robin (#70)

I'm glad to hear it, but the same is not true anywhere near the border.

It is on THIS side of the border, Robin (with the exception of New Larado). Has to be or the tourism would dry up. Also, I should have mentioned that there are nearly 8,000 Americans that live here, some permenently, and some part time. But, in addition to that, we have hundreds and thousands of visitors on a regular basis, and many, many of those are blonde and blue-eyed women. In the ten years that I have been here, there has not been a serious problem for the Americans here; no one killed, and only a couple of robberies, and those were of rooms and cars, not hold-ups of people.

Mexico City That is an entirely different story; 22 million people living cheek by jowl; not a pretty site, and not a pretty city. With some of the worst air of any city in the world.

suggested that a single woman would probably not like Mexico. Yeah, I read it and I answered it and I agreed. IF that single woman was looking for a Mèxican husband. There are large numbers of single white women down here, but they do not mix with the Mèxicans; just with the gringos (from quite a number of different countries).

And day of the week, Robin, there are dozens to hundreds of Americans and others walking around in the town, shopping, drinking, using the beaches, eating, and all without problems. Most of them drive here (about 98%), again without problems. And on the big weekends, that number swells to well past 15,000 to as high as 25,000. All rooms booked and every beach covered with campers. I do not think that would continue if there were any serious problems, Robin, so once again I would suggest that you pay a lot less attention to the major media in the US, and stop listening to the lies.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   2:55:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Jethro Tull (#86)

"The trend in Mexico's education expenditures is not typical of the other OECD member countries," said the report.

This is true. Education in Mèxico concentrates on the basics, and does not include the indoctrination demanded and used in Europe and the US (as has been posted on 4um in at least 4 different posts). The schools are not baby sitters, and the schools do not interfere with the families as they do in the US. And there is a lot of pressure coming from the US to change this and begin true indoctrination, as I am sure you are in favor of, Jethro.

People who wish, such as ourselves, to have the children go to higher education centers, have to pay for it, as is proper. I once again salute México.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   3:03:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Tauzero (#87)

They can prove that by leaving.

And why would they leave when your pols are paying them to stay?

Which can only do a small amount of good, in light of the lower average IQ of Mexicans, shorter time preference, and higher impulsiveness. Mexico is not poor and backwards because of corruption and false leadership. Mexico is poor, backwards, and corrupt because of Mexicans.

Don't read much do you, Taz. Trillion dollar enconomy; 26th largest in the world, which puts it above several eastern European (white) nations and a whole host of others. Amazing, when you admit to having no personel experience, that you can come to such stupid conclusions. Lower IQ indeed. Compared to what? And don't tell me Americans, cause I got a lot of different opinions about that! Uh, based on personel experience and observations, by the way. And to prove it, all I have to look at is the last 30 elections in the US.

disapprove of the aid the Mexican government gives to Mexicans who want to move north. Please do not make stupid statements. I live here, and I watch the poor ride the rails, sitting on top of the railroad cars until they can get near to the border. I see them, with shabby backpacks, panhandle for food in the bario, including at my home, and walking along the highway, heading north. So sit in your chair, watch the TV, but stop with the stupidity.

I also approve of their use of the military in this regard And what, pray tell, would that be? I mean, I only live here, so fill me in? There are only 8,000 or so Americans here on a regular basis, and on any given weekend, another 1,000 to 2,500 cars with up to another 5,000 plus people will DRIVE here, so, please, bring me up to speed on all of this military BS cause I am dying to know! The only place we see the Mèxican military down here is in the treaty mandated drug check points set up BELOW the free zone, and between the various states, such as between Baja California and Sonora. But hey, I just live here, so please, fill me in.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   3:18:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Tauzero, Jethro Tull, christine, robin, all (#87)

Indeed. I also approve of their use of the military in this regard

I was going to leave this alone.... I really was, but what the hey!

I find it amusing, actually, that any United States citizen would dare to speak ill of the military of any other nation. Really, I do!

How many nations has the United States invaded in the last 60 years, Taz? (30 elections, get it?) And compared to that, how many nations has the military of Mèxico invaded?

How many nations does the United States occupy with troops today, Taz? And, of course, how many nations have Mèxican troops in them?

Over the last 60 years, how many rapes, murders and robberies have been committed by United States troops world-wide, Taz? I mean, Mai Lai and Aba Garib are now household words AROUND THE WORLD, so what would you think? 10,000? Nah. Way more! 40,000? Ummm, probably more..... Maybe 100,000... ummmm? And probably many, many more than that if we can believe the info that has been written about Viet Nam and now Iraq, in dozens of books, can be believed. And, I might add, that I certainly do believe it.

And who are those troops, Taz? Mèxicans? Ummm, nope. They come from some other so-called third world nation? Nope (well, maybe a few with the new citizen-shit bait being used for `volunteers'). No, I would think that about 99.9% of them, esp. those that cause the problems, are good ole Americans. Yep. Pretty sure that is the case.

But this is where I really enjoy your rantings! in light of the lower average IQ of Mexicans,

Let us just look at this a little bit, shall we?

90% of all Mèxicans live debt free. AND, most Mèxicans DO NOT have bank accounts. Now you probably believe both of those things are really, really weird, Taz, which goes to show who has the higher IQ; you, or the average Mèxican.

EVERY drug store in Mèxico carries natural cures and herbs, Taz. and they sell a lot of it, to the Mèxicans. All they sell to the gringos who come here is more and more drugs. Ummmmmm, wonder who is smarter.......

The Mèxican government DOES NOT permit legal, lic. marriages in the churches in Mèxico. And, the people here understand that if they did, that would be a subversion of the churches and a denial of separation of church and state. And, it would permit the federal government of Mèxico to interfere in the families much more than they do now. In the states, where you live, Taz, NO ONE will get married without that state issued lic., which, of course, gives the states rights to the children under the terms of the marriage contract by and between the husband, wife, and the state. Now, care to tell me who is smarter, you and the average Aemrican, or the average Mèxican?

The average Mèxican DOES NOT pay an income tax here. Why? Because they do not AND WILL NOT enter into contracts with the federal government of Mèxico. Most Mèxicans, without even knowing that Social Security comes from England, will not sign up for a number. Now, who is smarter, the average Mèxican, or the average American?

Now, I could continue this for quite some time, but why? I do not believe that you are smart enough to understand how propaganda is used to keep your attention on manufactured problems, and off of what is really going on, so why bother? Oh, and Taz, you can take this to the bank; my IQ has been poked, prodded and measured 4 different times, and I will guarentee that I am smarter than you. And, I have a lot more experience with Mèxicans, with law research, and with Americans and what they believe, think and do than the average joe, and the average Mèxican is more aware of what is actually going on in the world, where most of the problems originate that have bothered Mèxico and the world for the last 100 years (the United States, if you are wondering), and about what is important in their lives, which is their families, than does the average American. By a very wide margin.

But hey, I just speak the lingo and live here, so what do I know, right?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   12:32:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: richard9151 (#91)

And compared to that, how many nations has the military of Mèxico invaded?

could that be because they're not an empire, but instead a poor nation whose military cannot afford such? there's no doubt, and no one is disagreeing with you on this, the US government and its puppetmasters is ruthless.

christine  posted on  2007-05-31   12:39:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: richard9151 (#89)

The Mexican educational system is not only of poor quality but it is also a subsidiary of the transnationals. This despite your spin.

Four Mexican Universities Benefit from $283 Million CAD/CAM/CAE System Donation.

From: PR Newswire | Date: August 13, 2001

MEXICO CITY, Mexico, Aug. 13 /PRNewswire/

Mexican President Vincente Fox was among the top dignitaries and industry executives gathered today at the GM de Mexico headquarters in Mexico City to celebrate the over $283 million donation of CAD/CAM/CAE equipment to four Mexican universities by General Motors Corp., UGS, Sun Microsystems and EDS.

This corporate alliance initiative, titled Partners for the Advancement of CAD/CAM/CAE Education (PACE), was formed in 1999 to help provide future engineers from key institutions the education and experience desired by each of the partnering corporations.

The $283,604,618 PACE donation was disbursed between four universities: the Instituto Tecnologico Autonomo de Mexico (ITAM), $32,005,014; Universidad Iberoamericana (UIA), $31,780,514; Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey - Campus Estado de Mexico (ITESM-Estado de Mexico), $116,646,040; and the Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey - Campus Monterrey (ITESM-Monterrey), $103,173,050.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   12:49:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: christine (#92)

could that be because they're not an empire, but instead a poor nation whose military cannot afford such?

Christine, I already posted the info on the Mèxican enconomy; trillion dollars last year, and 26th largest in the world.

The difference, Christine, is that the Mèxican government is prevented from taxing here by their Constitution, unlike in the United States. That has put a very tight limit on how much money the Mèxican government can borrow from the banksters in the US, and, a very strict limit on how much military they can afford.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   12:56:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: richard9151, Speedy Gonzalez, ALL (#89)

This is true. Education in Mèxico concentrates on the basics, and does not include the indoctrination demanded and used in Europe and the US - Richard9151

Richard, you say Mexican schools concentrate on basics. If true, please explain how Mexico ranked 34th in science and reading and 35th in math, from a pool of 43 nations. Are the students dopey, or are the teachers unqualified? Perhaps a mix of the two??

EDUCATION: DESPITE HEAVY FUNDING, MEXICO'S SCHOOLS GET LOW MARKS

From: Inter Press Service English News Wire

 | Date: October 7, 2004

 | Author: Diego Cevallos

 | More results for: mexico's school system


Inter Press Service English News Wire

10-07-2004

MEXICO CITY, Oct. 7, 2004 (IPS/GIN) -- The 33-student class
taught by Alejandra Avendaño, a Mexican schoolteacher, includes
children from four different grade levels, who are not benefiting
from the experience.

Although Mexico spends more on education as a proportion of
gross domestic product (GDP) than the average of the industrialised
nations grouped in the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
Development (OECD), Avendaño's school cannot afford to hire another
teacher or purchase new teaching materials.

"If we had more funding for teachers and materials, the children
would be better educated, but this is what we are given by the
authorities," complains Avendaño, 38, who teaches at a
"multi-grade" school in a rural area of the state of Mexico, near
the capital.

Last year, Mexico earmarked 5.9 percent of GDP to education,
0.03 percent more than the average spent on education by the 30
OECD member states. One out of four of Mexico's primary schools are
multi-grade, where educators simultaneously teach students of
different levels.

"If there are more funds for education, as the government
claims, why don't they provide us with another teacher and new
materials," quips Avendaño.

OECD studies indicate that Mexico spends 93.6 percent of its
educational budget on administration and bureaucracy, a proportion
almost 13 percent higher than the average in the OECD,
of which
Mexico is the only Latin American member.

In absolute terms, Mexico spends an annual average of 1,357
dollars on every primary school student, a quarter of the OECD
average, and 4,341 dollars on each higher education student, half
of the OECD average.

The conservative government of Vicente Fox, which inherited an
educational system that had already made great strides in
quantitative terms, maintains that it is working hard to make
spending on education more efficient and improve the performance
of students, one of the big challenges it faces today.

Nevertheless, the budget for 2005 that parliament is to pass
before the end of the year indicates no significant changes aimed
at cutting spending on bureaucracy and improving educational
standards.

The Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI), which governed
Mexico from 1929 to 2000, used to boast of its achievements in the
area of education. Yet it was reluctant to admit that the expansion
of coverage was not accompanied by improvements in the quality of
teaching.

While the party was in power, Mexico's illiteracy rate plunged
from 70 to 10 percent, and the average years of formal education
climbed to the second year of high school.

However, little was known about the quality of teaching until
studies began to reveal in 2000 that Mexico was actually earning
a failing grade.

The last PRI administration, the government of Ernesto Zedillo
(1994-2000), hushed up the low score Mexico had earned in an
assessment carried out in 40 countries by the International
Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement.
In the 1995 study, Mexican students in the third and fourth
years of primary school and the first and second years of secondary
school ranked lowest in math and science.

One of the most recent studies was carried out last year in 43
countries by the OECD and the United Nations Educational,
Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO), measuring the
academic performance of 15-year-olds.

The Mexican students ranked 34th in science and reading and 35th
in math.
Although Mexico performed better than the other Latin
American countries studied, it hardly earned a passing grade,
according to Andreas Schleicher, director of the Indicators and
="

" achieve="achieve" analysis="Analysis" directorate="Directorate" division="Division" education.

="Education.

" for="for" if="if" in neglecting what is most important in education -- the students, in
particular the youngest ones", says Alejandra Avendaño.
Experts on education say children studying in multi-grade
schools, such as the one in which Avendaño works, perform poorly
in reading comprehension and solving mathematical problems, since
they do not receive enough attention from their teachers.
In Mexico, a country of 102 million, about 30 million children
and adolescents attend school, half of them at primary level. They
are taught by 1.5 million teachers, most of them members of trade
unions, who earn an average of 12,000 dollars a year.

The trade unions have close ties with the PRI, as do labour
organisations in other sectors, which helped the party stay in
power in the past.

Fox, the first non-PRI president in seven decades, preferred to
get on well with the teachers' unions and not confront their
leaders who, according to dissident groups of teachers, are
corrupt.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:06:27 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Jethro Tull (#93)

Mexican President Vincente Fox

It is really, really too bad, Jethro, that you have so little understanding of basic facts. For instance, do you suppose that this so-called 'gift' of money comes without strings? Kind of like how the Rockefellers gifted 100s of millions of dollars to the univercities in the US? Too bad you do not read and study a little, instead of getting all of your info from the tele.

As to Vincente Fox, he was president of Mèxico for one reason, and one reason only; his proposed new program for Mèxico included massive new taxes that the PRI political party, in power in Mèxico for more than 70 years, WOULD NEVER permit. BUT, Fox has a plan.

What was that plan, Jethro? Do you know? I mean, you know everything, right? So, what was the plan?

What, give up? OK. Here it is in a nutshell; Fox's plan was to REBATE the new taxes to the poorest people in Mèxico. That was how he was going to sell the plan. BUT, to do this, all of the poor had to come into federal government offices AND SIGN UP FOR THE REBATES!

That means, Jethro, that the people of Mèxico had to do what they had always refused to do; enter into contracts with the federal government in order to get their benefits.... Now, Jethro, does that sound a little familiar to you, like, you know, what you all do in the states?

And within in a generation, Mèxico would have been just like the states, drowning in new taxes.... as I have posted before, Jethro, ACCUMLATIVE TAXES IN THE US NOW EXCEED 85%; and this is according to the budget report to Congress by the president of the United States, not my guessing.

Oh, and guess what, Jethro? Fox could not do it; his plan fell flat and the people, and their representatives, shot all of the new taxes down.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   13:07:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Jethro Tull (#95)

"If we had more funding for teachers and materials, the children would be better educated, but this is what we are given by the authorities," complains Avendaño, 38, who teaches at a "multi-grade" school in a rural area of the state of Mexico, near the capital.

As has been posted on 4um before, Jethro, more spending on education DOES NOT mean better education. It means more centralized control and more indoctrination of students, and not much more.

Of course, I understand that you know much more about it than I do. Of course, my wife, the math teacher, just had one of her students win first place in math for the State of Sonora, and will shortly being going with the student to the national competition. But hey, what do I know.

What I do know is that there are problems in education in Mèxico, but those are small problems compared to what is going on in the states in the schools. And, as I have mentioned, this has been posted on 4um numerous times; the problems in US schools.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   13:13:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: richard9151, christine, The numerous Peso bailouts by American taxpayers (#94)

The Mexican economy. How many times has America bailed out the Peso? I'm thinking three....

Mexican bailout preserves slavery. (Legal Research International Chief Financial Officer Christopher Whalen)(includes related articles on Mexican debt and economic conditions, North American Free Trade Agreement, and Canadian economic policy)(Picking Up the Pieces of the Peso)(Interview)  
Canadian Dimension; Apr 1, 1995; Mokhiber, Russell Whalen, Christopher Moody, Kim Sale, Tim; 4,078 Words ... billion in Mexican dollar reserves ... once risky Mexican stocks and ... devaluation of the peso. By seeking ... goods, the Mexican economy is ... collapse of the peso in Mexico ... devaluation of the peso turn to LRI ... that the Mexican model was ... kept the peso pegged ...
In the peso we trust? (disagreement in Washington, D.C., over the proposed bailout of the rapidly-falling Mexican peso) (Editorial)  
The Nation; Feb 6, 1995; 237 Words The aftershocks from the tumble of the Mexican peso are finally hitting Washington, reopening ... of a whatever it takes $40 billion bailout package, supported by the Fed and the ... Leach--who is secretly drafting the bailout legislation--and Senator Bob Dole, may ... largesse. Add the right to organize ...
Mexican Peso Falls Amid Predictions of U.S. Bailout Defeat  
The Washington Post; Jan 31, 1995; Tod Robberson; 876 Words ... market index plunged, and the peso's value fell to an all-time ... Congress. The beleaguered peso dropped at least 9 percent ... are his qualifications," a Mexican official said, apparently referring ... continue keeping their holdings in peso-denominated bonds or prefer ... nervous all the way around," a ...
Mexican Sugar Bailout Could Cost Up To 30 Billion Pesos: Government.  
Internet Securities; Sep 5, 2001; 142 Words ... will be doled out to creditors and investors. Grupo Azucero Mexicano (BMV:GAM) and Consorcio Azucarero Escorpion (Caze) announced ... Euromoney Institutional Investor Company. SUBJECT CODE: Ag News Provided by COMTEX (
>http://www.comtexnews.com)
Contract with Mexico. (bailout after devalued peso) (Editorial)  
National Review; Feb 6, 1995; 604 Words ... Republican Mexican bailout. The Mexicans' devaluation of the peso was a disaster ... rate of the Mexican monetary base ... S.-taxpayer bailout of up to $40 ... oppose this bailout. Whatever tough-soundi ... persuade the Mexican authorities ... economy, the Mexican ...
Peso strengthens after $20bn bailout  
The Independent - London; Feb 22, 1995; phil Davison in Miami; 527 Words ... rescue package for the Mexican economy, the first stage ... 50bn international bailout. The peso strengthened in anticipation ... for the beleaguered Mexican President, Ernesto Zedillo ... Guillermo Ortiz, the Mexican Finance Minister, signed ... signing, the leading Mexican daily El ...
Adventures in the zone of twilight: separation of powers and national economic security in the Mexican bailout.  
Yale Law Journal; Mar 1, 1996; Covey, Russell Dean; 19,931 Words ... and covert bailouts. The Mexican bailout, in Block ... an overt bailout because it ... 968. Covert bailouts, in contrast ... prop up the peso would have ... of covert bailout. (6.) In ... large-scale public bailouts. Only one ... rescue of the Mexican economy ... and loan ...
On the Trail Of the Elusive Peso Bailout // Saga Could Be Embarrassing  
Chicago Sun-Times; Mar 16, 1995; ROBERT NOVAK; 697 Words ... administration to set off the Mexican fiasco but do amount to a paper ... the Dec. 20 devaluation of the peso, senior Treasury officials were tracking the Mexican currency on a nearly daily basis ... devaluation that set off the Mexican agony. There are signs they were misled by their Mexican ...
A retrospective on the Mexican bailout.  
The Cato Journal; Jan 1, 2002; Vasquez, Ian; 2,577 Words ... collapsing peso, led to a ... crisis. The bailout, moreover ... ordinary Mexicans, and they ... collapse of the Mexican peso approached ... forthcoming IMF bailout. The Mexican economy ... legacy of the Mexican bailout. (1) See ... the 1994- 95 peso crisis, see ...
The fall of the peso and the Mexican "miracle." (includes related articles)(NAFTA Disaster)(Cover Story)  
Multinational Monitor; Apr 1, 1995; Wheat, Andrew; 4,417 Words ... make good on Mexican government ... is not a bailout of the Mexican peso or the Mexican economy. It is a bailout of U.S. banks ... short-term Mexican debt, including ... billion of peso-denominated ... is also a bailout of the Mexican government ... dollars to the ...
Dollar drain.(United States finances Mexican bailout)  
The Nation; Jul 10, 1995; Todd, Walker F.; 948 Words ... United States bailout of the Mexican financial ... May 22, the Mexican authorities ... May 31, the Mexican authorities ... have the Mexicans done with ... billion the Mexicans had borrowed ... obligations of the Mexican treasury ... debt of the Mexican government ... from the ...
A Bailout Of Political Proportions; Paybacks Could Benefit Mexican Millionaires  
The Washington Post; Aug 7, 1998; John Ward Anderson; 1,575 Words ... botched 1994 peso devaluation ... billion bank bailout that is evolving ... the bank bailout amounts to ... Mexico's bank bailout agency, the ... held by the bailout agency ... December 1994 peso devaluation ... the entire bailout. "This is ... the bank bailout fully as ... over by the ...
The Mexican debtors' revolt. (debtors battle with banks)(includes related articles on the Barzonistas and US bailout loans)   
Multinational Monitor; Jun 1, 1996; Wheat, Andrew; 3,216 Words ... Leon. We Mexicans don't earn ... 1996, the Mexican Bankers Association ... like many Mexican banking figures ... every 100 Mexican debtors had ... standards, Mexican banks have ... March 1996, Mexican Bankers ... time of the peso crisis in ... worth of bad Mexican loans, ...
Mexican holdup.(US bailout of Mexico)   
National Review; Feb 20, 1995; 452 Words ... Administration's new Mexican bailout plan looks like ... to support the Mexican peso and cover Mexico ... controls imposed on Mexican workers and businesses ... reversing recent Mexican tax hikes. Without such changes, a bailout (however organized ... future folly by the ...
Spitting into the wind. (US support of Mexican peso)(The Computerized Trader)  
Futures (Cedar Falls, Iowa); May 1, 1995; Burke, Gibbons; 738 Words ... free-falling Mexican peso with $20 billion to forestall a Mexican government default ... obligations. Will the Mexican bailout make Nick Leeson ... Barrington, Ill., the Mexican peso may be in a ... intent of the bailout was to stabilize ... decline of the peso, and give ...
IMF Ties Peso Crisis To Mexican Investors; Report Now Disputes Foreign Role in Collapse  
The Washington Post; Aug 21, 1995; Clay Chandler; 1,397 Words ... Suggests the peso's collapse ... dynamics of the peso's crash ... flight in the peso's collapse ... surge in Mexican investors ... 20, when Mexican officials ... value of the peso against the ... but from Mexican residents ... spiral in Mexican financial ... impossible for the ...
SHARP DECLINE IN PESO SPARKS NEW CONCERNS ABOUT STABILITY OF MEXICAN ECONOMY  
SourceMex Economic News & Analysis on Mexico; Nov 15, 1995; 1,031 Words ... devaluation of the peso in December ... shore up the peso. According to ... bolster the peso. Among the leading ... value of the peso to speculative ... swings in the peso to help everybody ... instability of the peso is the result ... direction of the Mexican economy. Analysts ... which ...
Mexican banks pay back small part of 1990s bailout, but questions remain  
AP Worldstream; Jun 27, 2005; TOM BARKLEY; 516 Words ... 06-27-2005 Dateline: MEXICO CITY Mexican banks paid the government back 1 ... million) in loans related to the bank bailout of the 1990s, but it is unclear ... US$70 billion (euro56.5 billion) bailout, which followed the so-called Tequila ... transfer program, which was part of the bailout. IPAB said ...
Rescue missions impossible: lessons of the Mexican bailout. (I.M.F.'s renegotiation of Mexican foreign debt)  
The Nation; Oct 6, 1984; Lernoux, Penny; 1,767 Words ... debt. The Mexican bailout is frequently ... As for the Mexican rescue operation ... claims, the bailout was plagued ... background to the Mexican bailout has been ... Kraft in The Mexican Rescue, a ... 1982, the Mexican government ... posture, the Mexican bailout, ...
Clinton's Peso Bailout Plan Causing a Bipartisan Hunker-Down  
The Washington Post; Jan 29, 1995; Helen Dewar; Kevin Merida; 922 Words ... about bailing out the Mexican peso. Nor were Democrats ... face in dealing with peso politics. "A lot of ... going to bail out the Mexicans and they say, `Huh ... parties is that the peso plan taps into sensitive ... international bankers and Mexican politicians. What keeps ... snowballing ...

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:15:35 ET  (20 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: richard9151 (#97)

Of course, my wife, the math teacher......

See above, re; the math skills of the little brown ones your wife teaches. Now, please answer the question. Are the kids dopey, or are Mexican teachers unqualified? Perhaps both??

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:20:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Jethro Tull (#98)

How many times has America bailed out the Peso?

Who cares, Jethro? It is YOUR politicians doing the bailing, Jethro, and they would not be doing so if it were not for the corruption coming from Washington, DC, in support of the corporate interest of the US in Mèxico, which, I may add, has held down Mèxico for the last 100 years, just as it has all of Central America and most all of South America!

There have been dozens of books written on the subjects, Jethro, detailing how Washington, DC, has interferred constantly in the internal politics of Mèxico, and how corporate America has control of most of the manufacturing and corporate farming in Mèxico. So, since they have created the problems, why should they not bail it out?

Oh, and by the way, Jethro, the bail-outs GO DIRECTLY TO BANKS IN THE US, esp. the Rockefeller banks in New York. Just guarenteeing those loans, docha know.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   13:24:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Jethro Tull (#99)

the little brown ones

Jethro, your racism knows no bounds, does it. Got a lot of personel experience with those little brown ones, do you, Jethro? Got personel experience for your comments, Jethro? Or, are you just repeating the fear mongering from the major media in the states, Jethro?

Ummm, which is it, Jethro?

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   13:27:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: richard9151 (#100)

Who cares, Jethro?

I do. The Mexican economy is bought and paid for by the American taxpayer as a gift to the transnationals. As repeated often, some cultures simply can't function w/o assistance. You have chosen to surround yourself by a prime example of such a culture :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:27:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: richard9151 (#101)

Jethro, your racism knows no bounds, does it.

Racism? No way. Bush #41 refers to his Mexican grandson (Jeb's BOY) as "the little brown one".

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: richard9151 (#100) (Edited)

which, I may add, has held down Mèxico for the last 100 years, just as it has all of Central America and most all of South America!

And being a nation(s) of unarmed surfs, you all have no option but to bend over and take their globalism up your can. OTOH, America has more than 70 million gun owners. If but 10% become pissed off enought, the nation is ours again. That's a ray of hope that you and your amigos haven't got - and never will.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:34:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Jethro Tull (#102)

some cultures simply can't function w/o assistance.

Read a lot of books on this subject, have you, Jethro? Maybe if you would, you would not be so stupid as to make such remarks. The point of everyone of those books, including Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, as an example, show that it is not assistance by any stretch of the imagination; it is pure theft. AND; it is always done in such a way as to keep such cultures as fragmented, broken down and poor as possible.

Now I know, it is difficult to read, but you should try it; go here first; http://www.le xrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

WAR IS A RACKET

by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient:

Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC [Retired]

He will tell you all about it; about how the corruption comes directly from the US, travels to all of those cute little countries, kills the people thereof who will not submit, and then steals everything worth stealing. All paid for by that great taxpayer in the sky; the United States citizen.

But hey, don't take his word for it, try the famous book, The Ugly American as well! Another excellent trip through the mentality you so love... the American way of doing business, world wide!

And hey, if you need more references, I have read dozens of books on the subject, so will be more than glad to add a few more to the mix.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   13:38:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Jethro Tull (#104)

That's a ray of hope that you and your amigos haven't got - and never will.

There is more guns down here than you would ever believe, Jethro, but the hope here comes from the thought that maybe, someday, America will wake up, but I do not believe it for one moment.

Too many people just like you in America, Jethro, so that is a hope died aborning.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   13:41:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: richard9151 (#105)

show that it is not assistance by any stretch of the imagination; it is pure theft. AND; it is always done in such a way as to keep such cultures as fragmented, broken down and poor as possible.

As I said, Mexico has been bought and paid for by the American taxpayer for the benefit of multinationals. I'm glad you agree.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:48:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: richard9151 (#106)

There is more guns down here than you would ever believe, Jethro,

Perhaps in the hands of government goons and the narco terrorists, but you aren't allowed to own or possess a weapon. Correct?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   13:50:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: richard9151 (#90)

And why would they leave when your pols are paying them to stay?

Indeed. We don't stop our pols for the same reasons we don't stop the Mexicans. When we have the guts to do the one, we will do the other.

Don't read much do you

Sure is hard to please some people. On FR I was a dreaded "book reader." :/

Trillion dollar enconomy; 26th largest in the world, which puts it above several eastern European (white) nations and a whole host of others.

Per capita? If you're worried about GDP (no reason you have to be), surely it is per capita GDP that matters more.

Lower IQ indeed.

Indeed. 92 or so, higher than the average black American IQ, much higher than the average black African IQ, but lower than the average American or white IQ, which are in turn lower than the average asian or jewish IQs. (Though the asian IQ is bifurcated, which slightly complicates the picture.)

Of course you would never stoop to taking a bribe. Could you sell me a deeply out-of-the-money option?

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-31   15:30:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: richard9151 (#91)

I find it amusing, actually, that any United States citizen would dare to speak ill of the military of any other nation.

But I wasn't.

Of course you would never stoop to taking a bribe. Could you sell me a deeply out-of-the-money option?

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-31   15:39:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: richard9151 (#91)

But hey, I just speak the lingo and live here

Heart is where the home is.

Of course you would never stoop to taking a bribe. Could you sell me a deeply out-of-the-money option?

Tauzero  posted on  2007-05-31   15:46:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: Jethro Tull (#108)

but you aren't allowed to own or possess a weapon. Correct?

I am a guest in this nation. And no guest in the United States is permitted too either.

Perhaps in the hands of government goons and the narco terrorists,

In the hands of the average Mèxican, Jethro. I have a number of friends who have guns, and they ain't goons or narcos.

The Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

richard9151  posted on  2007-05-31   18:14:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: richard9151 (#112) (Edited)

I am a guest in this nation. And no guest in the United States is permitted too either.

I'll ask again. Can a Mexican citizen own a gun with the permission and authority of the Mexican govt?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-05-31   18:25:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: richard9151 (#64)

Perhaps if you can answer those two questions, you can start to put a date as to when the so-called invasion from Mèxico actually became a problem.

Was it a problem before Reagan's Amnistia?


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-16   18:47:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: FOH (#114)

Was it a problem before Reagan's Amnistia?

No. The actual genisis of the problem started in 1965 with the changes in immigration law, as I have posted before. But the problem with Mèxicans really kicked into high gear with the advent of NAFTA and the forced opening of the border (going south) to factory produced food, spec. corn and pork. And it is important to note that even before NAFTA was passed, the terms of the agreements were being observed, so the real problems began late in the 80s, early in the 90s.

The poorest of the poor in México, who had lived on the same land for generations raising their families all of a sudden found that they could no longer make enough to buy any essentials, cause most of what those poor raised and sold were corn and pork.

But that was planned, cause the rich (from both México and the US) needed a lot more workers in the new factories being built in México, almost all of which were moved from the US to México.

But about the time that came to be, China got most favored nation status, and all of a sudden those factories for México began moving to China, and what about all of those new 'workers?' The least educated in México, where were they to go, cause there is no work in México either. And since no one was interested in enforcing existing laws in the US, and numerous laws were passed saying that ANYONE was entitled to entitlments if they were within the US, well, what would YOU have done?

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest. ++++++++++ Attention, Shrub; A life of evil is ultimately a life of wretchedness.

richard9151  posted on  2008-04-16   20:23:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: richard9151 (#115)

The poorest of the poor in México, who had lived on the same land for generations raising their families all of a sudden found that they could no longer make enough to buy any essentials, cause most of what those poor raised and sold were corn and pork.

I think you're correct according to what I've read. I read that 25 million Mexicans were pushed off theland that they had occupied for generations as a result of what you said. and it is important to understand that while the Mexican government allowed the US produced food into their markets with no tariffs the US produced food is subsidized very heavily by the taxpayers. So that Mexican farmers working on a smaller scale with no subsidies had no chance to compete. I've read that for those crops 40% of the US farmers' revenue is from the government.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2008-04-16   22:07:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: FOH (#114)

Was it a problem before Reagan's Amnistia?

there was a lot of illegal immigration from Mexico prior to the amnesty in 1986. The biggest problem with what happened in 1986 was that the government made it legal tohire illegal people if only the employer photo-copied the documents that would prove they're legal, and if the documents looked real, then the employer was perfectly legal to hire them. I read in a Wall Street Journal article back in 1986 that it was well-known this would only lead to a big black market in fake documents. and that is exactly what happened. It was the Senate Republican leadership that insisted the employers should not be forced to validate the documents before hiring. Others in the House (dominated by Democrats at the time) wanted to force employers to check legality of each new hire. The President was on the side of the House Democrats. But Senate Republicans would not allow such a bill to be passed. So they compromised and did it the way the Senate republicans wanted. Reagan who was in his senile stage by then was very easily influenced/controlled by those around him & went along.

They told us in 1986 they were going to fix the illegal immigrant problem and what they actually did was make it much worse. and then as Richard said NAFTA pushed 25 million mexicans off the land due to the subsidies of US food that were brought into Mexico without tariffs. They had to come up here.

The same thing is happening today, the leadership is making the Americans think they want to deal with the immigration problem. But legislation that Republicans (including Bush) supported in 2006 would increase immigration massively. Now they're trying to go for these indentured servant programs. They call them guest-worker programs. But anytime a person's existence in a country depends on the good will of the employer, then that means he is an indentured servant. The indentured servant system was first introduced in the early 1600's and was a pre-cursor to slavery.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2008-04-16   22:14:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Red Jones, FOH, *Agriculture-Environment* (#116)

the US produced food is subsidized very heavily by the taxpayers. So that Mexican farmers working on a smaller scale with no subsidies had no chance to compete. I've read that for those crops 40% of the US farmers' revenue is from the government.

You have stated it perfectly. What is being done in México now is a repeat of what happened within the United States before, when millions of family farms were destroyed through government planning. And most Americans were not and are not aware of what happened.

Today, America can no longer feed itself, and shortly México will be in the same boat. That is not a good boat to be in.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest. ++++++++++ Attention, Shrub; A life of evil is ultimately a life of wretchedness.

richard9151  posted on  2008-04-16   22:41:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: richard9151 (#55)

And the invasion into the United States is by people who have been chased off of their anscetral lands, where they have lived and rasied families for generations, because of NAFTA and the improtation of garbage food from the states.

This this the position you still cling to ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams


Rotara  posted on  2009-03-14   22:50:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Rotara (#119)

This this the position you still cling to ?

And why would I not? In Mexico, because of NAFTA and the importation of factory farmed pork and corn, nearly 20 million hereditary farmers; i.e., people who had for generations lived on the same piece of land and farmed it, have been forced off of their land because they can no longer make a living. 100% of those farmers were/are native Indians of Mexico. There are more than 280 recognized separate Indian tribes in Mexico.

The vast majority of the people, i.e., illegal aliens, who have moved to the US to work, with the full knowledge and cooperation of the various governments within the United States (evidenced by the blunt failure of those same governments to enforce existing laws against hiring illegals), are from these displaced people.

Now, what is not to understand?

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-03-15   0:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: richard9151 (#120)

illegal aliens, who have moved to the US to work,

Here's the byproduct of some of their work. Victims all.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-03-15   9:56:23 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: Jethro Tull (#121)

Here's the byproduct of some of their work.

And I wonder how long people like you will ignore the basic part of the problem?

with the full knowledge and cooperation of the various governments within the United States (evidenced by the blunt failure of those same governments to enforce existing laws against hiring illegals),

Amazing how thick you can be, Jethro. Your hatred is so amazing, it is no wonder you have no use for the Bible.

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-03-15   11:36:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: richard9151 (#122)

Your hatred is so amazing, it is no wonder you have no use for the Bible.

And which version of the bible would that be, senor?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-03-15   12:01:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Zipporah (#0)

Where the hell are you?

Old Friend  posted on  2009-03-15   12:26:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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