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Title: Dear Bret
Source:
FU
URL Source: http://www.freedomunderground.org/o ... .php?v=3&t=3&l=30&aid=13715#30
Published: May 17, 2005
Author: me
Post Date: 2005-05-17 14:56:13 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: Dear, Bret
Views: 141
Comments: 59
Dear Bret;
Couldn’t help but noticing your rant - #114 . I wish I had additional time today to treat your outburst with a more substantial post, but I'm really rushed. At the end of my comment is a sampling of the exchanges between myself and Ross. They should help anyone who might be interested in understanding the truth behind FU's demise.
I stand by my words you quoted. I do despise Zionists. Also, feel free to toss in *all* organized religions. Lenin nailed it when he called organized religion ‘opiate for the masses.’ Zionism is especially virulent because its adherents are both racists and warmongers. They‘ve also captured our foreign policy, imo. See the PNAC documents (or Goldi’s comment about palianimals) for some insight into their politics and racist attitudes.
As an America first nationalist, I refuse to dance to the sound of their shofar. Feel free to remain ignorant to the obvious, that‘s your choice. In proportion to their population, the power they wield is disproportionate. I’m not the only one to notice, I assure you. How ironic that they refer to our republic as a democracy, but in the case of Israel, the very few lead the many around by the nose. Most Americans are silenced by the forces of political correctness, but as long as I’m allowed to speak out I’ll continue to expose what I see as a blood thirsty tribe of malcontents.
Back to FU.
It was Ross who set out to destroy FU, not Christine. For your edification (and our amusement) I searched FU and found Ross’s exact words to me; “It (FU) has been an echo chamber, thats what needs to be changed.”. When I followed up asking how he planned to change FU, your boy opused - causing you to launch a round of bannings. By losing all objectivity, you banned your most loyal friends, supporters and contributors. Actions have outcomes, and your actions caused FU to cease being a free speech site. In response, Christine told you she was going to begin another forum, to which you answered, “you thought as much.” Thus 4um was born, and with it came nearly every member of Freedom Underground. I understand more than 100 members left FU for here - doesn’t that tell you something about how you handled the situation?
I wish this could have been settled privately, but you did ping me to your post. It remains a pity that FU ended as it did, but it’s always better to know the true feelings of people around you. In your case, you had been a frequent guest among people who treated you with class and respect. Bret, you burnt lots of bridges on your altar of political correctness, but in the end we’ll all be in the same soup - events are beyond our control. At least when that time does come we’ll know those with loyalty and character and those who wouldn’t know those qualities if they tripped over them.
***
To: DownKaos, all I don't understand how I'm making a mess of this thread?
*****
Personally, I don't expect you to understand. At this stage in your life, you know everything, so a critical self examination is impossible. It's enough to say that you're acting like the 'owners kid'; you're peeing on the shoes of decent folks knowing you won’t be punished. Bret is in a tough spot, and you aren't helping matters. In short Ross, you're a brat who never allows facts to get in the way of your rock solid opinions. I suggest you grow up, or watch FU become an echo chamber.
27 Posted 2005-01-20 14:15:01 by Jethro Tull
("I will not ablidge you in disrupting FU ever again." - Louise/Murron/StellaMaris/Clare, etc.) [ Reply | To 20 | Edit ] IP [ 172.201.27.233 ]
To: Jethro Tull It has been an echo chamber, thats what needs to be changed.
But again, personal attacks when I have not said anything rude to anyone in this thread. 28 Posted 2005-01-20 14:17:20 by DownKaos
(Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves. - Author Unknown - It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. ~Alfred Adler ) [ Reply | To 27 ] IP [ 24.217.29.51 ]
To: DownKaos It has been an echo chamber, thats what needs to be changed.
***
Thanks for the insight. A few questions: when did you decide FU needed changing, and why? Also, how do you plan on implementing these changes?
29 Posted 2005-01-20 14:21:50 by Jethro Tull ("I will not ablidge you in disrupting FU ever again." - Louise/Murron/StellaMaris/Clare, etc.) [ Reply | To 28 | Edit ] IP [ 172.201.27.233 ]
To: Jethro Tull, All, christine, unamused
Anyway I'm done, I'll just go post elsewhere which is just fine to me. I thought this was a free speech forum but I guess I was wrong.
I'll continue to run this server and keep it secure because Bret love his site. I will do this even though it goes against my beliefs because I know I will just be supporting a site that had so much going for it but turned into another hate site.
I think you don't understand Bret but I will not speak for him like you all have tried and leave him to post his thoughts on the whole thing.
Peace
30 Posted 2005-01-20 14:24:01 by DownKaos
(Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves. - Author Unknown - It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. ~Alfred Adler )
********
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#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
Sad.
Amazing how history has been rewritten.. I realize that everyone has their own
perspective.. but the fact remains the ONLY thing anyone ever said about Ross
was his ATTITUDE not what he believed or what he
thought but his attitude, plain and simple. No one asked for Ross to be banned
for I certainly did not, you did not, Christine did not. If someone else did I
have no clue who it may have been. I left there because Bret refused to treat
his kid like he would anyone else on FU.. to tone his insults and BS down.. of
course that didnt happen. He keeps spewing about 'free speech'.. what a friggen
joke. The entire mess at FU had NOTHING to do with free speech..
I left because of the personal venom directed at the members, not at their beliefs, but at the members personally. My speculation on forums of that nature is that they are peopled with those dwelling in institutions - hospitals, prisons, nursing homes, insane asylums, public libraries and the like which only have dial-up service, which is well known to make the user crazy.
My speculation on forums of that nature is that they are peopled with those dwelling in institutions - hospitals, prisons, nursing homes, insane asylums, public libraries and the like which only have dial-up service, which is well known to make the user crazy. Same here.. the namecalling .. the labelling.. the BS.. who would continue to be subjected to that? LOL..could be .. :P
J.T. - the following is only friendly, no rancor involved: Your tossing in all organized religions could be (operative words, there) interpreted as some sort of sop to Cerberus, some effort to thwart any possible criticism aimed at you for daring to specify zionism. In that there is a huge gulf separating zionism from organized religion (there is, isn't there? zionism not being a religion), there really is no need to protect yourself from criticism by including "all organized religions...." As a Christian,capitalist,laissez- faire U.S.Constitutionist, I find perfectly acceptable your renunciation of all organized religions. Jan and Paul Crouch, inter alia, don't resonate my Church Strings but they are in no way any threat to me and/or my life - even if they are hoping for Armageddon and voting for the Bush cabal which seems hell-bent on bringing it about. A point is: precisely how many Christians are there in this present Administration? Bush himself? Not a chance. Any others? Nope. It's a Neo-Conservative Administration with no Christians, no Conservatives, plenty of Jews. Any allegations that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, etc. have any influence inside this Administration are nothing more than a smokescreen to fool our foolish public into thinking that our murder of Iraq is Christian/Religion-oriented, and to garner votes from those good, gullible folks. Bush and his bosses invaded Iraq for Israel, first, and oil second, and 'organized religion' never was invited into any of the planning conferences that occurred long before the towers were imploded, or any that occurred afterwards. Certainly, it is probable that U.S.Christians and gentiles and atheists continue to believe the government view of world- events. But what do I know? Hells bells, I'm probably as bewildered as anyone else....Connecting dots is complexity-squared.
Good post Bub. Well said and duly noted :)
It is sad, Jim. Bret's need to continue to smear me, and others, with the anti-Semitic label is a time worn tactic used to shut down open discussion. It won't stick with those who know right from wrong.
There is also a vast distinction between organized religion and christianity or
faith just as, I believe, there is a vast distinction between Zionism and
Judaism. All of my posts, as I remember them, on this issue were making that
distinction. Bret continues to label me as an anti-semite and as
a "stormfronter" when he knows that is not true. As a matter of fact, until
malador accused AmericaFirst of being a stormfronter, I had never even heard
the term nor was I aware of their website. Anyone who knows me at all knows
that I am not one who categorizes or groups people. I judge people on an
individual basis--at least I try very hard to. Bret has been a guest in my
home for days at a time on
numerous occasions and was even here at the same time that a jewish friend was,
along with Randy Weaver. I challenge him or anyone else to search my posts and
produce one where I "jew bashed." Both JT and Zipporah express my view
perfectly on what occurred there. I won't go into detail here, but Bret and I
had numerous telephone conversations about this situation leading up to his
Friday night outburst and subsequent bannings. In addition, he knows, as do
many others, that there was far more going on behind the scenes than the
simplied and inaccurate version he's presented. I'll simply say this. I believe
that because it was his son that Bret lost all objectivity. One more thing,
never have I, nor would I ever intentionally try to "crush FU." I simply moved
on when
I realized that I was in a place where I was not wanted and where I felt that
all trust had been destroyed.
Exactly. It had to do with shutting down free speech. Ross said as much.
You know what is totally amazing in all this as I read that claptrap? I posted something on FU when I first became a member in regard to a post on eschatology.. ALL I said was that it was a distortion of scripture..period.. nothing more.. IMMEDIATELY I got attacked by 3 people on FU.. no discussion about the differences in views ..nothing .. I got it with both barrels..and it kept up for many many posts.. I just refused to be drawn into it.. for it was assinine.. Of course the scripture in Isaiah that says "Isaiah 1:18 "Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord. ...... was left by the wayside as they didnt want to 'reason' anything all they wanted to do it attack..and now its being said THEY were attacked by "anti-semites" ??.. These people are totally delusional.. They need a major reality check.. And another reason I left when the owner announced that FU was a "hate site".. who would want to be associated with a self-proclaimed hate site..
I remember the incident. Talk about flying monkeys. You were the "newbee" to the entrenched ones and their treatment of you was shabby. FU is in the rear view mirror where it belongs.
To: jwgalt another smack talking punkass bitch. Sounds like a couple of the newbies here. This place is getting infested with them lately. 1 Posted 2004-08-26 15:52:04 by Twodees [ Reply | To 0 ]
Actually I believe from years of study of FreeRepublic and its derived forums (like LibertyPost, FreedomUnderground and this one) that the source of these "meltdowns" is a single such forum group, the "Anti-Kooking" squad that now calls itself ClownPosse. This particular forum (Anti-Kooking/ClownPosse) is known not only for its constant libel and slander of posters, mods and owners of FreeRepublic derived forums but several of its members have reputations as stalkers, hackers and crackers. In fact they were kicked of the Intenet several times by the free forum services they use to host their site (Delphi Forums, Yahoo Forums and Aimoo Free Community) for these kinds of activities. I believe that Anti-Kooking/ClownPosse generates these "meltdowns" for their own purposes (usually getting sick entertainment out of the result but sometimes to actually bring down a forum they particularly dissagree with because they tend to be a bunch of bots as well as crooks) by using their hacking and cracking techniques to monkey with forum accounts and the private mail system where there is one.
This was true of FU's pm's. Trust me. I don't know
ClownPosse from a dung beetle, but it's a fact that Ross has posted there.
Yep that was a constant theme as well.. from those who said they were the 'founding' members.. This makes no sense to me really.. for without growth a forum just like anything else stagnates.. new ideas other points of view is what makes a forum interesting and you learn from other's points of view.. And you know JT, I have NO regrets in leaving FU whatsoever.. I wanted FU to succeed.. I had no reason to want it to implode.. where on earth that idea came from I have no idea.. but it became a loony bin.. and when CAPPS was called a "butt f**king stormtrooper" by the owner, that was IMO unconscionable not to mention the other accusations which had absolutely no basis in fact.
Now tell me, why would anyone's sole purpose be to do such things?
Like that article I posted "Blogging for $$". Paid Shills, many of 'em. The rest are sheep. Grumble, I've been waiting all day for a reason to re-post this great .jpg.
For Petes sake lady, it's a stupid web site. you act like your mother just told you she wished you had never been born and hated you. Who gives a crap about what a bunch of keyboard commandos/losers think. Get some self respect.
Maybe you should put together a list of subjects that you consider appropriate and which we will be allowed to post on. Or should we just ask you if it's OK before we put it up?
I agree that it was Ross's attitude towards posters that got to me. He had
every right to speak up about religion, or any other topic, , though I question
why an avowed atheist/agnostic would want to get into the fray. I certainly
didn't ask for a banning, and was really upset when Bret went on his banning
tangent, only to rescind it later, and without apology.
telling me what to do again, huh, willywanker? three times you're out. bye.
Chrissie, as long as I've known you (3+ years), I've always found you to be a caring lady, who hungers for the truth. I've not found you 'bashing' jews, but wanting to get to the truth of zionism vs judaism, etc. I also know you were very distressed over what happened at FU...both as it relates to the malador incident, and with the big break when ross acted the ass, and bret went bonkers and said many things that were flat-out wrong and hurtful--to you and to others. I'm thankful you got 4um rolling. I don't want to post at a place where one never knows if a bullet is aimed at your head or back. And with the bozo feature, it is easy to walk away from assholes, rather than stir up the pot of crap with warring parties.
Good question.. made little sense really but as I said, I had nor do I have any objection to anyone's opinions or beliefs.. it was the attitude.. total disrespect for anyone and everyone that challenged or replied to him.. it was totally ridiculous and totally out of line.. again I'll repeat.. it was the attitude period.. and I said that to Bret repeatedly.. but he refused to hear it..
I musta missed a good one. I was wondering where everyone went. lmao
thanks, dee. i appreciate that.
telling me what to do again, huh, willywanker? three times you're out. bye. You should have let us toy with him a little bit first.
he was too cowardly to respond to my post to him from last night, i note, then sticks his nose into something that doesn't concern him--attacking me without any provocation on my part--most likely a clown. i chose to exercise my right to freedom of non-association.
I want this freaking sheep pic to replace that pretzel! Now! It is so much more telling, imo.
Isnt that a riot.. ?? Says it all..
Keep bringing that damn sheep until it replaces that horrid pretzel. Your servant. ;-)
No, put the sheep on the home page. We need a picture there anyway. The pretzel is becoming a tradition where it is. Here is another good anti-Bush logo:
I have got to shut it down lest Mrs.L boinks me in the head... Have a ball y'all.
Put a pretzel in the sheeple's mouth.
Good nite ..have a good tomorrow!
Reading through this thread--it all comes horrifically back to me--the recurring nightmares: Minding my own business, walking peacefully along when set upon and brutally and mercilessly attacked by a vicious penguin. Oh, God, how I now hate those critters.
Wacky, wacky days. Life on the net - never a dull person or moment.
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. But you already knew that, didn't you, Jethro?
Immediately prior to Bret siccing his trained attack penguin on me, I asked who, specifically, had sought to have Downkaos banned--then next thing I know, I was being slapped upside the head. The question was never answered. I never (to my recollection) had any cross word or hassles with Ross/Downkaos. I certainly do well remember piping into the hassle between Malador and America First. Malador was full of crap on that deal. This whole episode, IMHO, comes basically down to this: either one supports the American-Israeli relationship or one doesn't. I don't and I'm here--not there.
Fred. I responded to Bret's post to me. So I think you have it ass backwards.
Comments (41 - 59) not displayed.
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#2. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
#3. To: Zipporah (#2)
#4. To: lodwick (#3)
I left because of the personal venom directed at the members, not at their beliefs, but at the members personally.
#5. To: Jethro Tull (#1)
"I stand by my words you quoted. I do despise Zionists. Also, feel free to toss in *all* organized religions."
#6. To: Bub (#5)
#7. To: lodwick (#1)
#8. To: Bub, Jethro Tull, Zipporah, unamused, ALL (#5)
#9. To: Zipporah (#2)
The entire mess at FU had NOTHING to do with free speech..
#10. To: Jethro Tull (#9)
#11. To: Zipporah (#10)
ALL I said was that it was a distortion of scripture..period.. nothing more.. IMMEDIATELY I got attacked by 3 people on FU.
#12. To: All (#11)
To whit
#13. To: Zipporah, Christine, Diana, Neil McIver, All (#10)
#14. To: Coral Snake (#13)
and the private mail system where there is one.
#15. To: Jethro Tull (#12)
Sounds like a couple of the newbies here. This place is getting infested with them lately.
#16. To: Coral Snake (#13)
#17. To: Zipporah, Coral Snake, Grumble Jones (#16)
#18. To: christine (#8)
#19. To: willyone (#18)
For Petes sake lady, it's a stupid web site. you act like your mother just told you she wished you had never been born and hated you. Who gives a crap about what a bunch of keyboard commandos/losers think. Get some self respect.
#20. To: Zipporah (#2)
#21. To: willyone (#18)
Get some self respect.
#22. To: christine (#8)
#23. To: rowdee (#20)
#24. To: christine (#21)
#25. To: rowdee (#22)
#26. To: christine (#21)
Get some self respect.
#27. To: crack monkey (#26)
#28. To: robin (#17)
#29. To: lodwick, robin (#28)
#30. To: robin (#17)
#31. To: lodwick (#28)
#32. To: Zipporah (#29)
#33. To: crack monkey (#31)
#34. To: lodwick (#32)
#35. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
#36. To: wbales (#35)
#37. To: Jethro Tull (#36)
#38. To: christine, robin, Diana (#35)
#39. To: lodwick (#33)
#40. To: Fred Mertz (#37)
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