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Title: Society Hates Smart People
Source: Scribd
URL Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/8778/Why- ... gent-People-Tend-To-Be-Unhappy
Published: Nov 30, 2007
Author: Unknown
Post Date: 2007-11-30 07:36:09 by YertleTurtle
Keywords: None
Views: 4589
Comments: 111

Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

- Ernest Hemingway, author and journalist, Nobel laureate (1899-1961)

Hemingway, who took his own life in 1961, knew his share of both intelligent people and of unhappiness. He lived through two world wars, the Great Depression, four wives and an unknown number of failed romantic relationships, none of which would help him to develop happiness if he knew how.

As Hemingway's quote was based on his life experience, I will base the following speculation on both my personal and my professional experience as a sociologist. Not enough study exists to quote on this subject.

Western society is not set up to nurture intelligent children and adults, the way it dotes over athletes and sports figures, especially the outstanding ones. While we have the odd notable personality such as Albert Einstein, we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).

Education systems in countries whose primary interest is in wealth accumulation encourage heroes in movies, war and sports, but not in intellectual development. Super intelligent people manage, but few reach the top of the business or social ladder.

Children develop along four streams: intellectual, physical, emotional (psychological) and social. In classrooms, the smartest kids tend to be left out of more activities by other children than they are included in. They are "odd," they are the geeks, they are social outsiders. In other words, they do not develop socially as well as they may develop intellectually or even physically where opportunities may exist for more progress.

Their emotional development, characterized by their ability to cope with risky or stressful situations, especially over long periods of time, also lags behind that of the average person.

Adults tend to believe that intelligent kids can deal with anything because they are intellectually superior. This inevitably includes situations where the intelligent kids have neither knowledge nor skills to support their experience. They go through the tough times alone. Adults don't understand that they need help and other kids don't want to associate with kids the social leaders say are outsiders.

As a result we have many highly intelligent people whose social development progresses much slower than that of most people and they have trouble coping with the stressors of life that present themselves to everyone. It should come as no surprise that the vast majority of prison inmates are socially and emotionally underdeveloped or maldeveloped and a larger than average percentage of them are more intelligent than the norm.

Western society provides the ideal incubator for social misfits and those with emotional coping problems. When it comes to happiness, people who are socially inept and who have trouble coping emotionally with the exigencies of life would not be among those you should expect to be happy.

This may be changing in the 21st century as the geeks gain recognition as people with great potential, especially as people who might make their fortune in the world of high technology. Geeks may be more socially accepted than in the past, but unless they receive more assistance with their social and emotional development, most are destined to be unhappy as they mature in the world of adults.

People with high intelligence, be they children or adults, still rank as social outsiders in most situations, including their skills to be good mates and parents.

Moreover, they tend to see more of the tragedy in the communites and countries they live in, and in the world, than the average person whose primary source of news and information is comedy shows on television. Tragedy is easier to find than compassion, even though compassion likely exists in greater proportion in most communities.


Poster Comment:

I can remember back when I was in middle school (jr. high in those days) and high school, where I noticed the schools were very good at identifying and developing athletes. The ambitious grinds did well making good grades.

But, oddly, the most intelligent, sensitive and imaginative...for them there was no place.

I remember sneaking into my school file when I was 12 and finding my IQ was listed as 126. Even so, I was required to take shop, where I rolled metal and made a wooden candleholder that caught on fire the first time I lit a candle.

All the girls were required to take Home Economics. After they graduated high school, all the boys were supposed to go work at the local steel mill, and the girls stay home and cook and clean. Only now there aren't many jobs at the steel mill, and haven't been for a long time.

Thank God for computers. Geeks and nerds have become rich, and I hope they take over the world.

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#1. To: YertleTurtle (#0)

Very interesting analysis. Thanks for posting.

angle  posted on  2007-11-30   8:04:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: YertleTurtle, christine, Minerva, robin, ratcat (#0) (Edited)

This is a topic that just isn't talked about much in our culture. I think it is in part because people in the "normal" range of 90 - 110 I.Q. resent people who are gifted. (I truthfully doubt many such people visit forums such as this - I suspect most regulars are above the 90-110 range.) People with a high I.Q., unless they come from the right nurturing environment tend to be marginalized and shunted aside by people resentful of that gift. Since they do not perceive the world around them with the same level of clarity, and cannot communicate at the same level they might as well be from different worlds.

I still recall the Freight Elevator Operator where my mom worked - a member of Mensa and the 3rd ranked Chess Player in the Northwestern United States. It also reminds me of a kid I knew in college - he came from a poor family and was verrrrrrrrrrrrry gifted. On his own (at age 18) he had been "playing" with advanced Geometries - which his Math Professor described as "this is very interesting may I show it to one of my colleagues"? Of course he ended up dropping out - he was a natural genius that just did not "fit in". I ran into him a couple of years later working a dead-end job, married, on drugs, and raising a child in poverty. Here was a young man who with the right nurturing had a staggering potential but the system was not set up to deal with or accomodate someone of his ability. Instead he was ostracized and marginalized.

I think it is even harder on women with a high I.Q. than it is on men. From what I have observed a lot of women with a very high I.Q. tend to become beat down, neurotic, and emotionally damaged - possibly because they are perpetual outsiders their intellectual peer group is so small that unless they are lucky enough to have one or more other such gifted women in their environment they are forced to hide what they are and tend to introvert. Not that the experience is a lot different for men but men are taught to be "self-reliant" and so you suck it in and "deal with it". Women are taught that they must socialize with their peers, but what does a woman with an I.Q. of 140+ have in common with a woman who has an I.Q. of 100 (the mid-point of the "normal" range)? Not very much. It is much like a woman with an I.Q. of 100 associating with one with an I.Q. of 80 (formally the I.Q. defined as a moron). A woman with an I.Q. of 140+ is farther above that 100 I.Q. Girl than that girl is above the moron, and they really do not have much of a common meeting ground. That is simple reality. What are they going to talk about? Britney Spears, Paris Hilton? Gag!

I won't beat my own drum other than to say that my I.Q. is above 140 and to add that High School was, for me, living hell (I was not a bad athlete but my mother disapproved of organized athletics and discouraged that as an outlet). By the time I was through the experience I had been so driven inward and become so introverted that I did not speak unless spoken to first. It took me years to get over the experience. (Well what else do you do in High School and are a social outcast - you read - A LOT.)

My experience in the Military was not much different but I was better prepared to handle it by then - although I had to learn to "dumb down" my vocabulary. A lot of the guys that I worked with thought I was "talking down to them" and being a snob because of my literate speech. The officers resented having around an enlisted man who spoke better english than they did. I recall a morning debate with a fellow enlisted friend, who was a Mensa member, and we had this young Lieutenant poke in and listen to the conversation who then felt compelled to make some lame-assed comment. As well I recall one senior Officer who had it in for me because he felt I was behaving "above my station" (at the time I was a junior E-4 holding down an E-7 job - thankfully the E-6 I worked for was himself exceptional). People who know me now wouldn't believe how intorverted I was at the end of my 4 years of Hell School, but that is because I learned the art of protective camoflouage later in the service. Now, other than playing around online I rarely use my full vocabulary and am careful not to use twists of humor that fly over the head of people I deal with at work.

The reality is that we live in a culture which values mediocrity and "fitting in". The Japanese have an aphorism for those that don't "fit in": "The nail that stands out gets hammered." Kids with high I.Q.'s don't fit in. A lot of what I know now I figured out after the fact - subtle twists of humor that I exchanged with my mother, also well above the norm I.Q.-wise, did not connect with my "peers" in school and they simply thought I was weird because the humor was not at a level they could perceive. Not to be snobbish - I'm not, but I am a realist.

After a while you learn to keep your own counsel. Trying to find a date who can make "Dinner Conversation" can be really really tough. The torture of trying to make conversation with a woman who is even a "high normal" can be excruciating. Those occaisions when I have enjoyed the companionship of woman with a higher I.Q. were an incomparable delight. The problem of course is the isolation of having an I.Q. somewhere between normal and an Einstein. You, despite adapting, remain an outcast because only rarely can you take off the social veneer and protective coloration and "open it up" and not have to think about whether the person you are talking to will "get" what you are trying to communicate.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   12:45:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Original_Intent (#2)

i understand what you're saying..just by virtue of the fact that we "get it" and are interested in what we're interested in makes us fringe. it's the reason why i enjoy forums like this and enjoy attending events where the attendees are likeminds. it's inspirational and soul nourishing.

christine  posted on  2007-11-30   13:03:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#3)

Your modesty speaks volumes. Like the other ladies I pinged to the thread, because I wanted to hear a high I.Q. woman's point of view on the subject, I suspect that you, like the rest of us, have to operate at "idle" socially a lot of the time to deal with "normal" people.

I would not trade my intelligence for the ability to fit in - like Thoreau I have learned how to keep my own counsel and be my own companion without going nuts. As well I have a few friends who I can open up with - that helps - a lot.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   13:08:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Original_Intent (#2)

A woman with an I.Q. of 140+ is farther above that 100 I.Q. Girl than that girl is above the moron, and they really do not have much of a common meeting ground. That is simple reality. What are they going to talk about? Britney Spears, Paris Hilton?

Most of the women around the office here read People, InTouch, and other gossip rags, obsess over celebrity scandals, and gossip about other people. I've caught wind of rumors about myself simply because I was seen leaving for lunch with a woman from the building.

Trying to find a date who can make "Dinner Conversation" can be really really tough. The torture of trying to make conversation with a woman who is even a "high normal" can be excruciating. Those occasions when I have enjoyed the companionship of woman with a higher I.Q. were an incomparable delight.

It's difficult to find good women, especially in southern California where social status and material possessions are a high priority in life for many. Many of the women I've met/dated have admitted to me that they have mountains of credit card debt (much of it from buying clothes/accessories, eating out, and weekend excursions to Vegas).

The type of woman I'm interested in would rather watch something on the Science or Discovery Channels than Desperate Housewives. I'd also prefer that they didn't use the word "like" in every sentence. Like, you know, like, when somebody is, like, saying something and, like, they always, like, say "like."

Alan Chapman  posted on  2007-11-30   13:47:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Alan Chapman (#5)

Most of the women around the office here read People, InTouch, and other gossip rags, obsess over celebrity scandals, and gossip about other people. I've caught wind of rumors about myself simply because I was seen leaving for lunch with a woman from the building.

As well high I.Q. women will, and men are the same, try to "fit in" or become neurotic. The last couple of women who I was in close social contact with who had very high I.Q.'s were neurotic as hell (that was a nice office triangle not of my making). Another one I know could put the "K" back in Kinky (appropriately enough she is a P.I.).

It's difficult to find good women, especially in southern California where social status and material possessions are a high priority in life for many. Many of the women I've met/dated have admitted to me that they have mountains of credit card debt (much of it from buying clothes/accessories, eating out, and weekend excursions to Vegas).

Having lived there I understand completely - "like gag me with a plastic pitchfork duuuuuuuuude". Personally I regard a trip to Vegas as a business trip where I intend to bring back more than I took - and am good enough of a Poker Player to do it. However, it is not recreation - it is business.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   13:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Original_Intent (#2)

A lot of the guys that I worked with thought I was "talking down to them" and being a snob because of my literate speech.

So many well made points in your post. Thank you.

angle  posted on  2007-11-30   14:05:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: angle (#7)

You are quite welcome, and thank you for the kind words.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   14:11:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Alan Chapman (#5)

The type of woman I'm interested in would rather watch something on the Science or Discovery Channels than Desperate Housewives. I'd also prefer that they didn't use the word "like" in every sentence. Like, you know, like, when somebody is, like, saying something and, like, they always, like, say "like."

A profound inability to follow cause and effect more than one step is also common. When I dated, I often found myself explaining my statements and breaking them down into digestible pieces. I felt like an elementary school teacher.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   14:13:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Original_Intent (#2)

People who know me now wouldn't believe how intorverted I was at the end of my 4 years of Hell School, but that is because I learned the art of protective camoflouage

Interesting history. The process of converting from an extreme introvert to an expressive & confident adult is very interesting; been there done that.

Was anger a factor in your 'transformation'?

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2007-11-30   14:14:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Artisan (#10)

Was anger a factor in your 'transformation'?

No, but I was bitter as hell for years. When I went back to College, after the service, I wrote an Essay titled "Of Officers and Men" where I was able to pour a lot of the bitterness out on paper.

However, it was a course in communication which cracked open the shell and the rest has been time and experience. I have in part just ceased expecting people to be able to communicate at a level I personally find enjoyable and am gratified whenever I run into someone who can. It is always fun to share experiences on coping with a world where you are, by the nature of who and what you are, always set apart from the majority.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   14:22:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: duckhunter, Alan Chapman (#9)

A profound inability to follow cause and effect more than one step is also common. When I dated, I often found myself explaining my statements and breaking them down into digestible pieces. I felt like an elementary school teacher.

Exactly! I could not have put it better. You just encapsulated the point I was floundering around trying to articulate.

Frustrating isn't it?

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   14:28:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Original_Intent (#4)

Like the other ladies I pinged to the thread, because I wanted to hear a high I.Q. woman's point of view on the subject, I suspect that you, like the rest of us, have to operate at "idle" socially a lot of the time to deal with "normal" people.

I see I was not included. Interesting.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   14:35:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Original_Intent (#12)

Frustrating isn't it?

Very much so. My wife was the first woman I met with whom I could effortlessly communicate. The fact that she speaks three languages and has a Masters in Elizabethan Drama helped.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   14:36:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: YertleTurtle (#0)

ping for later read.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-11-30   14:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: duckhunter (#14)

Very much so. My wife was the first woman I met with whom I could effortlessly communicate. The fact that she speaks three languages and has a Masters in Elizabethan Drama helped.

Reminds me of one of my best friends in the service - Bachelors in Chemistry, Masters in English Literature, and repaired computers as her vocation. Unfortunately she was already taken. I was deeply in love with her but am old fashioned about such matters.

The last woman I dated regularly has a Masters in Education, and worked her way through college as a Stripper. Interesting person and fun to do nerdy things with like go to Art Museums.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   14:43:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Original_Intent (#12)

I was floundering around trying to articulate.

I thought your statements were very precise. Very thought provoking as well. My typing skills are definitely sub-par, so brevity is my friend around here.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   14:44:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Alan Chapman (#5)

Alan, like, I know some, like, real sweet policewomen, who would, like, love to handcuff you and, like, do you in a closet.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-11-30   14:46:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: farmfriend (#13)

I see I was not included. Interesting.

Don't get your feathers out of place. There were a couple others I forgot too - and that is what it was - forgot. No offense or sleight intended. You are a bright and witty woman and I would include you in the category as well.

Now, please don't hate me forever.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   14:46:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: duckhunter (#17)

I was floundering around trying to articulate.

I thought your statements were very precise. Very thought provoking as well. My typing skills are definitely sub-par, so brevity is my friend around here.

Thank you.

As Shakespeare pointed out: "Brevity is the soul of wit."

Although I rather like Gertrude Stein's rejoinder: "Brevity is the soul of lingerie."

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   14:49:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Original_Intent (#19)

You are a bright and witty woman and I would include you in the category as well

YertleTurtle, christine, Minerva, robin, ratcat

I find that unless they have a feminine screen name, I automatically assume (incorrectly, obviously) everyone to be a white male in their thirties, like me. I didn't realize those you pinged, other than christine, were female.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   14:55:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Original_Intent (#11)

I'm not claiming to be a genius or anything, but I got straight A's all through parochial school,. My grades dropped significantly in high school; I didn't like it too much at first, but adjusted. I went to a completely sports obsessed school, which I found odd even at the time. Being a Catholic school, It baffled me as to why 'men of God' seemed to be so enraptured and impressed with such trivial nonsense. One alumni from my school who went on to play pro ball ended up in prison, and years later i was tempted to ask the dean 'hey, do ya'll still have that SHRINE dedicated to Mr JockStar in the auditorium?? LOL.

One thing i never understand about today's society, no matter which country you go to, the families most often sit in front of the tube after dinner; literally shoveling FECES into their mind, for hours at a time . Ugh.. sad..

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2007-11-30   14:56:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Original_Intent (#19)

You are a bright and witty woman and I would include you in the category as well.

Now, please don't hate me forever.

Not a chance of even hating you for a little while. Just had to give you a hard time.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   14:57:44 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: duckhunter (#21)

how did you profile us so accurately? ;-/

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2007-11-30   14:58:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Artisan (#22)

Being a Catholic school, It baffled me as to why 'men of God' seemed to be so enraptured and impressed with such trivial nonsense

Ever been to South Bend IN?

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   14:59:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: duckhunter, Original_Intent, YertleTurtle, ratcat (#21)

I didn't realize those you pinged, other than christine, were female.

I thought Yertle Turtle and ratcat were male. I'm taken as male because of my farmfriend handle. My positions on men's rights just makes it worse but then I take it as a compliment to be thought one of the boys.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:00:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: duckhunter (#21)

FYI: Yertle Turtle is a conspiratorial male, who takes to long, sun filled shirtless walks in pug-filled Bermuda shorts.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-11-30   15:00:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Artisan (#24)

how did you profile us so accurately?

Accidentally.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:00:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: farmfriend (#26)

I take it as a compliment to be thought one of the boys.

It's the highest honor a man can bestow upon a woman.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:02:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: farmfriend (#26)

I'm taken as male because of my farmfriend handle.

Guilty as charged, at least in the beginning. I figured it out after a while over at LP though.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:03:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Alan Chapman (#5)

The type of woman I'm interested in would rather watch something on the Science or Discovery Channels than Desperate Housewives.

Sadly I'm married and live in norther CA. I've never watched Dancing with the Stars, American Idol or Sex in the City.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:04:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Jethro Tull (#27)

pug-filled Bermuda shorts.

Does that mean he keeps small dogs in his pockets?

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:04:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: farmfriend (#31)

Sadly I'm married and live in norther CA

I can understand sadness at living on the left coast.............

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:05:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: duckhunter (#29)

It's the highest honor a man can bestow upon a woman.

I agree.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:06:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: farmfriend (#31)

I've never watched Dancing with the Stars, American Idol or Sex in the City.

With two minor exceptions, I can proudly say I have never wasted any of my life watching reality TV.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: duckhunter (#33)

I can understand sadness at living on the left coast.............

LOL! smart ass. I was born and raised here. I would have a hard time leaving this state. It's home.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:07:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: farmfriend, duckhunter, Original_Intent, YertleTurtle, ratcat (#26)

I didn't realize those you pinged, other than christine, were female.

I thought Yertle Turtle and ratcat were male. I'm taken as male because of my farmfriend handle. My positions on men's rights just makes it worse but then I take it as a compliment to be thought one of the boys.

I picked it up from a comment from Yertle the other day that she was a she. Ratcat I have known for at least 5 years from Liberty Forum and we are long time online correspondents. She's a fellow Kitchen Gardener.

P.S. Thanks for not hating me forever.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   15:09:54 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: duckhunter (#32)

No, not in his pockets. You're warm tho.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-11-30   15:11:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: duckhunter (#35)

With two minor exceptions, I can proudly say I have never wasted any of my life watching reality TV.

Give me a good show on M-Theory any day. I like the ones on super volcanoes, mega tsunamis and why Pluto isn't a planet. Closest thing to reality TV I have watched is Meerkat Manor. I know, they anthropomorphize the meerkats but I still like the show.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:11:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: duckhunter (#25)

Drove thru Indiana once going from Cincy to Illinois. Not sure where south bend is. although i read that the headquarters of liberty dollar is in indiana and the guy who runs that company and is supposedly wanted by the feds, announced that he would be at a pot-luck meeting there yesterday, thursday at 6-9PM. . I wanted to go but it was a little too far now.

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2007-11-30   15:13:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: farmfriend (#31)

I've never watched ... Sex in the City.

I find that difficult to believe.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   15:13:10 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: farmfriend (#36)

I was born and raised here. I would have a hard time leaving this state. It's hom

Completely understandable. I feel the same way about Alabama.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:14:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Original_Intent (#37)

I picked it up from a comment from Yertle the other day that she was a she. Ratcat I have known for at least 5 years from Liberty Forum and we are long time online correspondents. She's a fellow Kitchen Gardener.

Hmmm, I still think Yertle is male but I could be wrong. Ratcat and I have pinged back and forth at LF since I joined in March of 02. One of my favorites but I guess gender never came up or she could have said and I'm spacing it. Happens more and more lately.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:17:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Original_Intent (#41)

I find that difficult to believe.

OOoooo, I'm going to get you for that.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:18:48 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Original_Intent (#37)

She's a fellow Kitchen Gardener.

I had forgotten about our conversations last spring concerning farming. I tried the Rutgers strain you suggested. It was quite impressive for an heirloom. Had a bit more trouble with blight than the hybrids, but,due to superior taste, I was able to charge nearly 50% more for them at market.

We are in the middle of the worse drought ever recorded around here. I'm fortunate because I have a well that has never gone dry in living memory and shows no signs of doing so.The drought is causing prices to shoot up, benefiting those of us with access to water.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:19:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: farmfriend (#39)

Give me a good show on M-Theory any day. I like the ones on super volcanoes, mega tsunamis and why Pluto isn't a planet. Closest thing to reality TV I have watched is Meerkat Manor. I know, they anthropomorphize the meerkats but I still like the show.

I really enjoy Top Chef. Don't know why, I'm not a cook. It just appeals to me. I also enjoy American Hot Rod. I am a bit of a hobby mechanic.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Artisan (#40)

Not sure where south bend is.

It's the home of "Touchdown Jesus" on the campus at Notre Dame.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Artisan (#22)

I'm not claiming to be a genius or anything, but I got straight A's all through parochial school,. My grades dropped significantly in high school; I didn't like it too much at first, but adjusted. ...

I have noticed that academic achievement in school is not necessarily a reliable indicator of intelligence. I have run into a fair number of individuals who were very bright but were not good in a formal school setting. For myself I was classified through High School as a "chronic underachiever". It wasn't that I was not interested in learning - I read voraciously - but I just was not interested in a lot of what was being required.

One thing i never understand about today's society, no matter which country you go to, the families most often sit in front of the tube after dinner; literally shoveling FECES into their mind, for hours at a time . Ugh.. sad..

Agreed. Personally I have not turned my TV on since the second half of this years Super Bowl. However, Television is best viewed as an addictive drug - and research has shown that the flicker rate of a Television does put you into a mild trance state. Who knows what other manipulations are going on subliminally?

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   15:25:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: duckhunter (#45)

I had forgotten about our conversations last spring concerning farming. I tried the Rutgers strain you suggested. It was quite impressive for an heirloom. Had a bit more trouble with blight than the hybrids, but,due to superior taste, I was able to charge nearly 50% more for them at market.

We are in the middle of the worse drought ever recorded around here. I'm fortunate because I have a well that has never gone dry in living memory and shows no signs of doing so.The drought is causing prices to shoot up, benefiting those of us with access to water.

Glad to hear.

Another couple worthy of consideration:

Pruden's Purple: Actually more of a Pink than a purple, but flavor is comparable to Brandywine, is better looking, resists cracking, and is several weeks earlier. They are considered a Beefsteak Variety and can reach a pound or so.

One I grew for the first time this year was St. Pierre, a French Heirloom, which is a medium sized slicer with excellent flavor and good yields for an heirloom.

A Hybrid with excellent flavor and yields - medium sized and red - is Carmello. One of the few Hybrids I grow because of their marvelous flavor.

Have you looked into the Czech's Excellent Yellow? It is still the best small to medium yellow I have grown. The flavor is superb.

Another smallish heirloom with very good yields is Jaune Flamme - which despite the French "Yellow" - Jaune - is orange. Flavor is very good and the orange color makes them very attractive to the eye.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   15:34:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: duckhunter (#46)

I also enjoy American Hot Rod. I am a bit of a hobby mechanic.

I think I've watched that one a couple of times. What can I say, I'm the only woman in a house of men. There are two others I've watched a few times. Can't remember the names of the shows though. Mostly I watch the construction shows. I like Rock Solid and other home improvement shows.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   15:38:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Original_Intent (#2)

Smart chicks are soooooo sexy.

An 'above average' intelligence can be a liability.

Humility, an open mind and honesty often go farther...

"They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." ~ Gerald Massey

wudidiz  posted on  2007-11-30   15:40:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: farmfriend (#44)

Nurse Diesel is that you?

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   15:42:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: wudidiz (#51)

Smart chicks are soooooo sexy.

And dangerous, but then I like dangerous women - keeps me awake.

An 'above average' intelligence can be a liability.

I would disagree, but it can't correct for personality problems.

Humility, an open mind and honesty often go farther...

Certainly characteristics that reccomend a person, and I have met a few women with such outstanding empathy that any other things are outweighed by the beauty of their spirit.

However, can I have one with "all of the above"?

Is that asking too much?

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   15:47:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Original_Intent (#49)

They are considered a Beefsteak Variety and can reach a pound or so.

I grew Mortgage Lifters this year for my heirloom beefsteaks. I had one that nearly topped 5 lbs.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:47:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Original_Intent (#49)

Pruden's Purple: Actually more of a Pink than a purple, but flavor is comparable to Brandywine,

It's probably a regional thing, but most of my customers seem to prefer a high acid tomato. Brandywine is a sweet tomato. Great for older folks with special digestive needs, but a small segment of my market.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:49:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: duckhunter, Artisan, Original_Intent, farmfriend, robin, christine, James Deffenbach, FormerLurker, FOH, ALL (#47)

Drop Kick Me Jesus

"They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." ~ Gerald Massey

wudidiz  posted on  2007-11-30   15:50:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: farmfriend (#50)

I like Rock Solid and other home improvement shows.

Sounds like my wife.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:51:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: wudidiz (#56)

I can't access you tube here at work, I'll check it out this PM.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:52:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Original_Intent (#53)

However, can I have one with "all of the above"?

Don't forget the importance of lar.......nevermind.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   15:54:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Original_Intent (#53)

However, can I have one with "all of the above"?

Yes.

Is that asking too much?

I don't think so.

"They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." ~ Gerald Massey

wudidiz  posted on  2007-11-30   15:54:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: wudidiz (#56)

That was special.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-11-30   16:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: robin (#61)

LOL, thanks.

"They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." ~ Gerald Massey

wudidiz  posted on  2007-11-30   16:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: duckhunter (#55)

Pruden's Purple: Actually more of a Pink than a purple, but flavor is comparable to Brandywine,

It's probably a regional thing, but most of my customers seem to prefer a high acid tomato. Brandywine is a sweet tomato. Great for older folks with special digestive needs, but a small segment of my market.

You could trial one or two for your own use and see if they work as, like other "purples", are more acidic.

However, the St. Pierre might be more in line then as it has higher acidity. The larger ones are probably 8 to 10 ounces.

Since you want a high acid tomato the Peron Sprayless might work too. It is an heirloom with a high natural disease resistance and high acidity. It is full of anti-oxidants as well. It is medium sized - about the same size as Rutgers (which I think was recommended to you by someone else - although I am familiar with it).

A good high yielding early producer is "Early Cascade" which produces tomatoes in those nice large trusses you see in gourmet stores. I started one, under cover, here in March one year and had ripe tomatoes on July 11th which is very early for Oregon. It was developed at Oregon State University by Dr. Jim Bagget who is well known for his research on developing Tomatoes.

Another good yielder which I grew for the first time this year is Nyagous - which is a Russian import - a "Black" Tomato - actually more of a deep mahogany red. The Blacks are higher in acid - although it is very sweet, but they make a marvelous addition to a tomato sauce made from other varieties. The flavor is exquisite but probably not what you are used to.

Did you ever find a source for the SRM Red Plastic Tomato Mulch?

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   16:10:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: duckhunter (#54)

I grew Mortgage Lifters this year for my heirloom beefsteaks. I had one that nearly topped 5 lbs.

Another consistently HUGE one is "Big Zac" which was developed as a "competition" tomato and can top 5 pounds.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   16:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: duckhunter, Original_Intent (#59)

Don't forget the importance of lar.......nevermind.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-11-30   16:26:25 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: farmfriend (#31)

The shows you mentioned are also very popular in the office, as well as The Bachelor.

Alan Chapman  posted on  2007-11-30   16:56:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Original_Intent (#63)

Since you want a high acid tomato the Peron Sprayless might work too. It is an heirloom with a high natural disease resistance and high acidity. It is full of anti-oxidants as well. It is medium sized - about the same size as Rutgers (which I think was recommended to you by someone else - although I am familiar with it).

I could have sworn it was you, but nevertheless. I've heard of Dr Baggett many times. You can't thumb through a seed catalog without seeing his name. I'll definitely check into the strains you recommend. I'll be doing all of my seed buying before the end of the year.

I grew Cherokee Purple, Pineapple and Druzba as experiments this year with mixed success. The market for these heirlooms isn't as developed around here.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:05:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Original_Intent (#63)

Did you ever find a source for the SRM Red Plastic Tomato Mulch?

Sure did. I joined the Vegetable Growers Association. They had a ton of resources in their newsletter. Ordered around 10,000 ft of it as a fraction of the cost of retail. Worked really well.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:11:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: duckhunter (#67)

While it could have been me ...

Pruden's Purple is similar to Cherokee - although larger and higher yielding. The taste of Pruden's is similar to Brandywine in intensity but is higher acid.

Pineapple is interesting but I am not big into bi-colors. Hillbilly is a real pretty bi-color but I really did not care for the flavor that much - however, some people love them.

Druzba I've seen in catalogs but never grown.

The all time best tasting tomato I have ever grown is Yellow Brandywine, but the yield is too low. The Platfoot Strain does provide a higher yield but still does not rival the reds for productivity. However, I will still grow them every few years just to be able to eat a couple.

I am thinking of trying the Amana Orange, Dad's Sunset, or Kellogg's Breakfast for an orange tomato this year.

While I have my favorites I like trying a new variety or two each year.

I will definitely grow the Nyagous again this year.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   17:19:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: duckhunter (#68)

Did you ever find a source for the SRM Red Plastic Tomato Mulch?

Sure did. I joined the Vegetable Growers Association. They had a ton of resources in their newsletter. Ordered around 10,000 ft of it as a fraction of the cost of retail. Worked really well.

Good. I am glad it worked out.

Are any of those sources available to us home gardener's?

If you haven't tried it another good one, but for Melons and Cucumbers, is IRT 76 which is a dark green infrared transmitting mulch. I prefer the microperforated variety but can no longer find it. I could not grow some of the melons I grow in my climate zone without it.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   17:24:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Original_Intent (#69)

Pineapple is interesting but I am not big into bi-colors.

They didn't sell very well fresh. They make an interesting salsa though.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:29:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Original_Intent (#70)

Are any of those sources available to us home gardener's?

If you're willing to buy 5000' at a time. Let me walk out to the barn and get my catalog. I'll get you an address.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:32:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Original_Intent (#70)

I could not grow some of the melons I grow in my climate zone without it.

It's hard to make money on melons around here. They grow them year round in S. Alabama. We can't compete here in the north.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:34:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: duckhunter (#71)

They didn't sell very well fresh. They make an interesting salsa though.

They don't do too bad around here but it is a different market. We have a lot of small market farmers who, like you do it as a second job, or sell through gourmet markets and farmer's markets.

People are creatures of habit - it is like Watermelon - the best and sweetest ones I grow are yellow fleshed but trying to get some people to eat them is like a trip to the dentist. "Oooooooooooh it's not red." Like, uh, duh. Nevermind that until up until about 1900 that the yellow was the more common variety to be found and generally have a higher brix number.

For the record my favorite is "Early Yellow Moonbeam" which is a "Seeds of Change" developed seed. They run about 3 to 8 pounds and are honey sweet when fully ripe.

A really good Cantaloupe, hard for me to grow here, but less problem in your longer growing season is "Old Israeli" - which is a white fleshed cantaloupe that runs to about 9 pounds. A very complex flavor - kind of tropical.

This year I want to try Canoe Creek Colossal - which is an old heirloom hardshell cantaloupe than can reach 20 pounds. I think it would be neat to grow a cantaloupe the size of a watermelon.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   17:42:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Original_Intent (#70)

Are any of those sources available to us home gardener's?

Try this place. I believe they deal in smaller quantities.

http://www.robertmarvel.com/

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:43:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: duckhunter (#72)

If you're willing to buy 5000' at a time.

That's what I was afraid of - I use about 50 feet per year.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   17:44:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: duckhunter (#75)

Thank you - I will definitely check it out.

Are you familiar with Farmtek?

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   17:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Original_Intent (#74)

I think it would be neat to grow a cantaloupe the size of a watermelon.

I've seen a few around like that. Never eaten one though.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:47:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Original_Intent (#77)

Are you familiar with Farmtek?

I'm on their mailing list. I get a catalog every season.

Check out www.vegetablegrowersnews.com for all kinds of resources.

Robert Marvel sells 2400' of red mulch for $75.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:51:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Original_Intent (#74)

. "Oooooooooooh it's not red.

I get that same reaction with tomatoes.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   17:52:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: duckhunter (#73)

It's hard to make money on melons around here. They grow them year round in S. Alabama. We can't compete here in the north.

A couple that might work depending upon your market:

Ogen, sometimes Ha'Ogen: This is a smooth skinned green fleshed melon that averages around 3 pounds. They are classified as a "Dessert Melon" because of their high sugar content - which can run to 14%. Complex flavor - smells citrusy and has overtones of pineapple in the flavor. They ripen to a very pretty mottled gold and green and are picked on the full slip. Very productive and can produce up to 10 melons per vine although the most I've gotten is 6 - but that was container grown. It is originally from Hungary but is grown in Israel for the European Gourmet Market. I grow them every year and they are a staple of my garden because of their reliability. The only time I ever saw one for sale here, about 10 years ago, they were 2 bucks a pound. Moderate resistance to Powdery Mildew.

For a white fleshed melon the same size and general coloration try Collective Farm Woman - another eastern european import.

For your own use the fabled French Charentais is a must grow. It is the only perfect 10 I have ever grown. The Savor Hybrid variety is one of my favorites as well as the original unhybridized.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:01:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: duckhunter (#78)

I think it would be neat to grow a cantaloupe the size of a watermelon.

I've seen a few around like that. Never eaten one though.

Me neither - but according to Seed Savers they are supposedly quite acceptable.

Another large one, green fleshed, which is supposed to be gourmet grade is "Montreal Market" which can reach 15 pounds - which is the largest green fleshed I have seen. I tried growing it this year but I only had two plants and moles got to the roots, dug through them, and killed them.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:06:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: duckhunter (#80)

. "Oooooooooooh it's not red.

I get that same reaction with tomatoes.

I can believe it - even though some of the best tasting are among the yellow and orange varieties.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:08:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: duckhunter (#79)

I'm on their mailing list. I get a catalog every season.

Check out www.vegetablegrowersnews.com for all kinds of resources.

Robert Marvel sells 2400' of red mulch for $75.

That is actually almost worth my while. A 50 foot roll is 20 bucks. With proper storage that would last me forever.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:10:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Original_Intent (#82)

Another large one, green fleshed, which is supposed to be gourmet grade is "Montreal Market" which can reach 15 pounds - which is the largest green fleshed I have seen. I tried growing it this year but I only had two plants and moles got to the roots, dug through them, and killed them.

My main pest problems with melons are coyotes and deer. I know it sounds unlikely, but I've had coyotes go through my personal garden and ruin an entire crop. I paid my son and nephew $10 a head to sit in the field and shoot the nasty boogers. After a couple hundred dollars and no noticable decline in the population, I gave up.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   18:12:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Original_Intent (#81)

which can run to 14%. Complex flavor - smells citrusy and has overtones of pineapple in the flavor. They ripen to a very pretty mottled gold and green and are picked on the full slip.

Now I'm hungry ;)

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   18:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: duckhunter (#85)

My main pest problems with melons are coyotes and deer. I know it sounds unlikely, but I've had coyotes go through my personal garden and ruin an entire crop. I paid my son and nephew $10 a head to sit in the field and shoot the nasty boogers. After a couple hundred dollars and no noticable decline in the population, I gave up.

They're hunting rodents which is one of their staple foods. Get rid of the rodents and you get rid of the coyotes. I would guess that your garden was attracting a large rodent population and they tore it up hunting rodents.

You can also buy repellants for both rodents and coyotes but I can't vouch for them not having used them.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:18:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Original_Intent (#84)

With proper storage that would last me forever.

Just keep the unused roll out of sunlight, and dry, and it should keep indefinitely.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   18:19:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: duckhunter (#86)

which can run to 14%. Complex flavor - smells citrusy and has overtones of pineapple in the flavor. They ripen to a very pretty mottled gold and green and are picked on the full slip.

Now I'm hungry ;)

A good melon will do that to you. Now you know why I grow them despite my climate not being the best for it.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:20:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Original_Intent (#87)

You can also buy repellants for both rodents and coyotes

Blood meal and putrified egg solids are the main products that I'm familiar with. They work OK, but have to be reapplied after every rain. They're kind of expensive as well.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   18:21:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: duckhunter (#90)

You could check out Peaceful Valley Farm Supply and see what they have - or just for ideas. They specialize in organic farm supply and might have a cost effective repellant.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:27:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Original_Intent, duckhunter, gardners here (#89)

I've had some success using garlic powder, and cayenne pepper as critter repellents.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-11-30   18:27:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Original_Intent (#91)

You could check out Peaceful Valley Farm Supply

Will do. I'm off to supper with the family. Have a good weekend.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-11-30   18:29:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: duckhunter (#93)

Bon Apetit'!

I'm out of here as well. I spent more time online then I planned on.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:33:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: lodwick, duckhunter, gardners here (#92)

I've had some success using garlic powder, and cayenne pepper as critter repellents.

Thanks. It works on some and some it doesn't. Pickle Juice poured down mole holes will drive them off temporarily. They also don't like big wads of human hair.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   18:36:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: duckhunter, Original_Intent, ratcat (#21)

YertleTurtle, christine, Minerva, robin, ratcat

I am shocked ratcat is a woman.

angle  posted on  2007-11-30   18:42:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Original_Intent (#95)

They also don't like big wads of human hair.

I've collected from beauty shops also - Mrs.L just didn't like the look in the front lawn...

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-11-30   19:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: angle (#96)

I am shocked ratcat is a woman.

And an avid gardener. You've posted a lot on LF - her Avatar is the family cat "ratcat". If it is still there, and hasn't been archived, the thread "The Accidental Gardener" spells it out.

"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-11-30   20:01:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: duckhunter (#21)

I didn't realize those you pinged, other than christine, were female.

YertleTurtle...is not female.

Fortune favors the prepared mind. A zombie, however, prefers it raw.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2007-11-30   20:13:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Original_Intent (#98)

"The Accidental Gardener"

I do remember afterall.

RE: Moles.

Moles eat earthworms and grubs. I had lots of japanese beetle and used "milky spore" about 7 years ago. Milking spore takes care of Jap Beeetle grubs naturally. Now, no more moles. I think there's a definite correlation. Are you Original_Intent on LF also?

angle  posted on  2007-12-01   19:46:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: angle (#100)

I don't have any problems with Japanese Beetles but do have tons of worms. I'm thinking of trying one of those noisemaker gizmos.

"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-12-02   0:30:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: YertleTurtle (#0)

Hats off to a guy who helped to hunt many species in africa that much closer to extinction....

Ninpo  posted on  2007-12-02   0:34:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Ninpo (#102)

Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Nothing like eating lower life forms. They're delicious!

"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-12-02   0:43:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: wudidiz (#62)

http://www.vidmax.com/index.php/videos/view/4507

Amazing video of a human being that is half man, half tree

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2007-12-03   0:58:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: YertleTurtle (#99)

YertleTurtle...is not female.

They had me doubting so I went and checked things. I can't rely on my memory anymore.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-12-03   3:07:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: TwentyTwelve (#104)

Amazing video of a human being that is half man, half tree

That poor man.


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2007-12-03   3:10:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Original_Intent (#4)

I suspect that you, like the rest of us, have to operate at "idle" socially a lot of the time to deal with "normal" people.

LMAO! That about sums it up.

Change for Ron Paul

Critter  posted on  2007-12-03   7:34:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: YertleTurtle (#99)

YertleTurtle...is not female.

Now I know. Thanks.

duckhunter  posted on  2007-12-03   9:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Critter (#107)

I suspect that you, like the rest of us, have to operate at "idle" socially a lot of the time to deal with "normal" people.

LMAO! That about sums it up.

It's about the only thing you can do - find the humor in it. Still it is frustrating to constantly have to make allowances for the slower pace at which other people pick up on things - thus having to avoid delicate nuance and twists of subtle word play that just leave them looking at you as though you are strange. Sigh!

I still remember with great fondness a conversation I had with a friend in the service. We were in the break room at the facility, I forget what inspired the play, we worked at but we were carrying on a conversation entirely based in double meanings and hidden sarcasm. The conversation taken at face value made sense as mundane and unhumorous discussion but we were having a ball and cracking up playing the game of working the conversation on both levels - the superficial and the actual intended meanings. Everyone else in the room was giving us strange looks and quizzical expressions because they could not see or hear the humor of the play. Sadly such pleasantries are all too few. So, I get frustrated at rarely being able to just "hit the gas", get the cylinders really popping, and not have to worry if the other person can keep up.

It just hit me thinking of that what is so frustrating and galling about being an elisted man in the service. I was talking to a retired Master Chief Petty Officer the other day, himself no slouch, and that combined with this rambling reply caused a d'oh moment. The frustration comes from having to treat some dullard officer, whom you outclass intellectually, with a seeming respect, frequently unearned, while they treat you as a not too bright child. That is also why the military cannot hold on to a lot of its best and brightest in the enlisted ranks - most simply will not put up with it. Not to put down those that remain - as many are very bright, and some truly exceptional, but the real creative thinkers that I knew in the service virtually all got out after one or at most two hitches. To some degree that holds true for the Officer Corpse as well - many of the officers for whom I had genuine respect would do their 5 years and get out. I recall a comment made by an O-4 (Major, or Lieutenant Commander in the Navy and Coast Guard) that 3 out of every 5 Officers he had served with were incompetent.

"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-12-03   12:21:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Original_Intent (#81)

For your own use the fabled French Charentais is a must grow. It is the only perfect 10 I have ever grown. The Savor Hybrid variety is one of my favorites as well as the original unhybridized.

I need some advice as to the correct time to pick these. I seem to do it too early or too late.

"There are indeed two political parties in the US. The state-lovers and the freedom-lovers." - ghostdogtxn

angle  posted on  2008-01-27   16:44:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: angle (#110)

I need some advice as to the correct time to pick these. I seem to do it too early or too late.

Picking a Charentais can be tricky because like a lot of French Melons they either don't slip (separate) from the vine until they are over ripe or do not slip at all.

With a Chartentais they will change color from a green to a greenish gray. This is the critical period because you want them ripe but not over ripe. Smell is one indicator - they will, after they have begun changing color, develop a heavenly sweet aroma so one way is to give them a smell test. Some varieties (the old heirloom original) will start changing to a mottled gray and cream color - that combined with the smell is your best indicator. If they smell overpoweringly ripe they are ripe. The sweetness should be kind of ambrosial and a bit sharp - if they smell too heavy you've waited too long. It is just a knack that is gained with experience. I can give you some of the indicators but it takes a little experience and even then you won't be right every time.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-28   4:55:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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