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Title: Spitting on the Troops ... 2007 Style
Source: The Fountain of Truth
URL Source: http://www.geocities.com/fountoftruth/spitting.html
Published: Dec 10, 2007
Author: Doug Newman
Post Date: 2007-12-10 21:56:34 by snoopdougg
Keywords: None
Views: 12768
Comments: 115

Mike Gaddy is a veteran of many years in the Army. He saw action in Vietnam, Grenada and Beirut. He currently lives in the Four Corners area of the Southwest and has

written numerous essays for LewRockwell.com that make for very worthwhile reading. Like a lot of veterans, life has taught him that huge numbers of soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have made huge sacrifices over the years in the service of what turned out to be lies.

In a very recent column, he wrote the following:

“We came home [from Vietnam] to a misguided, ignorant nation who blamed its veterans for the mess our criminal politicians had gotten us into. An American population yelled obscenities at veterans who had been victims of unspeakable horrors when they met them at the airports and bus stations on their return home, but gave a pass to the politicians who sent them there.”

If any opponents of the War on Terror (WOT) are greeting returning troops in such a detestable fashion, I hereby issue the following demand, for whatever it might be worth: CEASE AND DESIST IMMEDIATELY! I am a retired Naval Reservist and I steadfastly maintain that the majority of those in uniform genuinely believe that they are doing a good work on our behalf.

The military, like any other segment of the government, grows and thrives based on the willingness of people to believe its propaganda. During my 17 years of involvement with the Navy – they let me retire early because of a relapse of a back injury – I seriously believed I was contributing to the defense of America and its freedom. Almost all of my shipmates believed likewise.

Like more and more veterans, living life and observing events have opened my eyes to the fact that I was being lied to. And, like more and more veterans, I am speaking up in the hope that Americans stop dying for lies. I love the Navy, but I hate what it is being used for nowadays.

As much as I oppose this WOT, I will give those who are doing the actual fighting this: they are making a sacrifice. They are sacrificing for the benefit of those who send them off to war. Some sacrifice more than others. Indeed, several thousand have made the ultimate sacrifice.

There are those who wage war and those who fight war. Most of the key players waging this current WOT – politicians, network talking heads, megachurch preachers and executives in the military-industrial complex – have never lifted a finger to do a day in the military. Very few have any kids in the active military.

More often than not, the fighting is done by kids from places such as South Central LA, the mining towns of West Virginia and the farms of Nebraska. Someone called the War Between the States “a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight.” The WOT is no different.

And while they may not, in 2007, return home to spitting and obscenities, they are being spat upon in another, more offensive, way.

The people who so relentlessly beat the drums for war abroad -- and who are oh so outraged when anyone suggests ending the WOT -- are often the same people who tell us that we must sacrifice our liberty at home. They even admit that it is a paradox: in order to preserve our freedom, we must give up our freedom. While thousands fight and die for our freedom, we must give up your most basic constitutional guarantees of liberty here at home.

Terrorists do not threaten our liberty. After the 9/11 attacks, there was no follow-up. There were no invading armies, no naval battle groups in New York Harbor and the Potomac River and no aerial bombing raids. (1) Terrorists do not even control the government of Afghanistan, one of the poorest countries on earth. It has been centuries since a Muslim country conquered a non-Muslim country. This idea that radical Islamofascists pose any threat whatsoever to take over America is, to steal a phrase from GW Bush, an outrageous conspiracy theory.

Al Gore and the Left want us to freak out and go on Amish mode because of the junk science of global warming. GW Bush and the Right want us to freak out and submit to a police state because of the grossly exaggerated threat of terrorism. They are just two sides of the same totalitarian coin.

Millions of Americans are willing to believe these lies. I have had too many conversations with too many people over the last six years to think otherwise. It is bad enough that the government and its lapdog media want us to relinquish what is left of our freedoms. It is worse when millions of average Americans are more than happy to comply.

Here are just a few comments that stick out in my mind.

  • A girl in a Bible study: “They can search and spy on me!”
  • An old friend: “They are going to hit us again. You just can’t be too careful.”
  • A friend over beer and wings at a local sports bar: “Actually I'd be willing to give up a fair amount of my liberty for a time.”
  • A woman at Denver International Airport: “I know this security stuff is inconvenient, but I am SO GLAD they are doing it.”

I can’t believe that my experiences are that unique.

And then there are a those who will give up their liberty for a time and who expect to get it back in the future. I know of a group of people who gave up their liberty and got it back twelve years later: they were the German people of 1933-1945.

Millions of Americans are either silent about, in total denial of, or zealously promoting the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the John Warner National Defense Act and the numerous  executive orders and pending pieces of legislation designed to set up a full blown police state.

Some of the biggest support for this comes from Christians. Indeed, thousands of pastors have joined Clergy Response Teams whose purpose is to quell dissent should martial law be imposed. If they had any integrity, they would be preaching hellfire and brimstone against a government that would even dream of imposing martial law. But no-o-o-o-o-o-o. This might hurt attendance and jeopardize their 501c3 status.

These people who are so willing to give up what is left of our freedom – even for a short time -- are, in my opinion, worse than those protestors who spat on the troops returning from Vietnam and yelled at them calling them baby killers.

I can’t imagine thinking I was doing the right thing for my countrymen, making a huge sacrifice by fighting for their liberty in a foreign land, and coming home to find that they are more than willing to give up the very liberty that I had just risked my life for.

Oh sure, they wave those flags and have “Support the troops” bumper stickers on their cars and watch Fox News and listen to Drug Limburger and pray for the troops in church and say all the right things at bible study. But they have never even considered doing a day in the military and they don’t care one iota about the liberty for which so many have given so much. It makes my stomach do 360s.

The more I study, the more I believe that most of this nation’s wars have been contrived events. This does not minimize the sacrifice by those who fought in those wars. Most of them thought – idealistically and patriotically – they were doing the right thing. It is enough that they made such great sacrifices on someone else’s behalf. Let us not spit in their faces and desecrate their graves by relinquishing what liberty we have left.


(1) For the record, I do NOT buy the official story on 9/11. And it is not just Arkansas militia types, tin foil hat wearers and Haight-Ashbury hippies who agree with me. Type "truth about 911" into a search engine and you will see that it is also pilots, veterans, architects and engineers and people from all walks of life.


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#41. To: robin (#38)

To each her own, but I was there and know that which I speak of...

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-11   18:56:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Jethro Tull (#35)

As I bailed out on PJB when he went to bed with Lenora Fulani, so too would I were Ron Paul got into bed with kucinich or anyone approaching him...

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-11   18:57:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: FOH (#41)

To each her own, but I was there and know that which I speak of...

But you're not going to tell us, are you?

You just insult me without any explanation.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-11   19:00:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: aristeides (#43)

Yeah, life's a b!tch ain't it?

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-11   19:03:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: FOH (#44)

And, with every refusal to elaborate, you prove all the further that you insult people without any reason.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-11   19:10:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: robin, FOH, PEPPA, jethro tull (#38)

I must disagree. aristeides is one of the most informed posters on this 4um.

We do not all agree on every issue certainly

You're right. We don't. Anyone who calls someone insane for not "agreeing with those worthy of respect" (puking..on what grounds may I ask) is dangerous. Sounds like something the Feds would say about the defendant in a thought crime trial. "This defendant is a nutcase because he believes what HE thinks! We have professional paid believers with whom he disagrees! What's up with this guy? Does he think he's Gaaaawd!!??"

Yeah he can come off with crap like that all he wants, but he'll be relegated to the bozo heap.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

IndieTX  posted on  2007-12-11   19:14:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: IndieTX (#46)

Do you think you're God? Sane people tend to reconsider when they're faced with disagreement by people worthy of respect. You say you could care less.

That's what I said. What I said was that, if somebody like Bob Barr disagrees with a sane person, he will reconsider whether he is right, not say he could care less. I didn't say you're insane if you end up still disagreeing.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-11   19:18:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: IndieTX (#46)

Anyone who calls someone insane for not "agreeing with those worthy of respect"

I can't find that anywhere on the thread.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-11   19:19:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: IndieTX (#46)

You're right. We don't. Anyone who calls someone insane for not "agreeing with those worthy of respect" (puking..on what grounds may I ask) is dangerous. Sounds like something the Feds would say about the defendant in a thought crime trial. "This defendant is a nutcase because he believes what HE thinks! We have professional paid believers with whom he disagrees! What's up with this guy? Does he think he's Gaaaawd!!??"

Yeah he can come off with crap like that all he wants, but he'll be relegated to the bozo heap.

Eating each other isn't really that helpful.

Said bozo the clueless.

Peppa  posted on  2007-12-11   19:21:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: FOH, aristeides (#30)

It's purely personal.

You're an eyesore on EVERY forum you inhabit...

Hmm well that has not been my experience.. I've followed aristeides posts on FR and LP .. what Ive seen is a thoughtful poster who is very well informed.. so where you are coming from is beyond me?

Zipporah  posted on  2007-12-11   19:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: FOH (#41)

Well, most of us posted on LP before Neil left it to Goldi's ineptitude. After leaving, some here kept a close check on what happened.

I know when aristeides was banned (twice) I searched the posts to discover why, each time.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-11   19:27:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: robin (#48)

I can't find that anywhere on the thread.

"Do you think you're God? Sane people tend to reconsider when they're faced with disagreement by people worthy of respect. You say you could care less."

Look again.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

IndieTX  posted on  2007-12-11   22:16:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: snoopdougg (#0)

I wouldn't go as far as 'spitting' on the troops but my support of them is over.

How anyone could continue to exact war crimes upon the Iraqi people with this illegal invasion/occupation is beyond me.

No, these are not honorable 'troops'...they are 'war criminals' enabling their bastard leaders clear to the White House.

The 'Honorable' ones went AWOL and still need the legal support of all that oppose this bastard invasion.

Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!

Brian S  posted on  2007-12-11   23:14:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: robin, zipporah, christine, Pinguinite (#51)

I might have chosen the wrong forum to call 'home' then...

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   1:29:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: FOH (#54)

Even at home there are disagreements.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   1:31:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: robin (#55)

In any event, I'm backing off for now...I've had enough Bush League shit run by Commie-fascist fuckwads.

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   1:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: FOH (#56)

There are no Bushbots here, except for a couple trolls.

And I don't know of any Commie-fascists - Chertoff doesn't post here.

There are some moderates and a few Democrats who agree with many here about the war and Ron Paul.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   1:34:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: robin (#57)

I've appreciated your posts and general understanding of the times and events shaping them...

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   1:37:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: IndieTX (#46)

I could care less what type of America-hating tools occupy a particular forum that I promote, but when 'management' endorses said fuckwads...I have to draw a line.

If I move on I want YOU to know I've greatly appreciated our exchanges.

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   1:40:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: FOH (#58)

Written communication is limited and imperfect; it always sounds harsher than if it were spoken. Sometimes the wrong impression is formed. I do know that there is common ground here that is important.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   1:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: robin (#60)

If even you are fooled by a fucking traitor like 'ari', then there might not be much hope left...

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   1:43:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: aristeides (#45)

And, with every refusal to elaborate, you prove all the further that you insult people without any reason.

You might have these folks fooled, but not me 'ari'...

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   1:44:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: FOH (#61)

How on earth did you ever reach this opinion of him? I really am curious. I find his analysis of events most illuminating.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   1:47:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: robin (#63)

Have you ever heard 'ari' say nary a 'dirty word' about the NAU?

Of course you haven't. I pay close attention to these things and have for a LONG time.

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   1:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: FOH (#64)

No I haven't. It doesn't bother me that people are not in lock-step. He may agree but have nothing to say because he's a Catholic and the Catholic church is a major supporter of illegals. Or maybe he doesn't have a strong opinion about it.

I would focus on all the other important issues where there is agreement. The degree of support will vary in any crowd. Also, the manner in which people write differs greatly. He doesn't use dirty words.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   1:59:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Peppa (#27)

Never is an insult so well done, when it is well crafted and makes people think. Same with a joke. It seems to be much of a lost art, since we are allowed to publically fling out an FU with a worry that society would judge you too vulgar, rude, uneducated, and juvenile.

Well stated.

I am perfectly capable of insulting some gibbering microencephalic buffoon without once resorting to common vulgarisms.

Not only that it is a lot of fun to be creative.

The other advantage is that when it is done right it is much more withering than calling someone an "effing 'tard". You have taken the high road and by expressing an insult literately, and hopefully with some small measure of wit, you put the opponent immediately on the defensive.

I still recall an occasion where I had the rare priviledge of having to go have "a friendly chat" with the senior E-9 where I was stationed. In the 5 minutes I spent standing at attention in front of his desk he never once raised his voice, never once used a 4 letter word, and when I left that office I was firmly convinced that I had just had my ass chewed by a true master of the art. I still marvel at the skill with which he punctured my ego, used understated sarcasm, and effectively pointed out my many and varied deficiencies as a junior NonCom who might one day, however doubtful it might seem at the moment, be able to muster the character to adequately fulfill my duties. The lesson stuck and to this day and I endeavor always to be punctual. I still cringe after 28 years.

"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-12-12   2:00:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Original_Intent (#66)

I still marvel at the skill with which he punctured my ego, used understated sarcasm, and effectively pointed out my many and varied deficiencies as a junior

My eldest sister did this to me on a regular basis growing up. All I could do was slam the door and yell "dummy!".

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   2:03:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: robin (#65)

lolol!

Ah sheet.

Have fun. You've been duped. So apparently has the management of this forum.

So be it...

What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!

Tea Party '07

Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...

FOH  posted on  2007-12-12   2:05:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: robin (#67)

And your story reminds me of growing up. As the eldest of 4 after my father's untimely death I was left having to be "the man" at the age of 14. My younger siblings did not take kindly to this. I can still recall some of the explosions that created. :-)

Are you and your sister on speaking terms?

"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers." - Unk.

Original_Intent  posted on  2007-12-12   2:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Original_Intent (#69)

mostly! ;)

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   2:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: FOH (#68)

Why would you want to post on a forum where everyone agreed 100%?

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-12-12   2:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: FOH (#62)

If you're going to call people traitors for things they did not say, there are going to be a lot of traitors.

No need to talk about Al Gore being a totalitarian. YOU'RE the totalitarian.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-12   6:30:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Brian S (#53)

Excellent post.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2007-12-12   7:20:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: robin (#57)

And I don't know of any Commie-fascists

Mekon the marxist is a complete troll.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2007-12-12   7:21:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Kamala, Mekons4 (#74)

Mekon the marxist is a complete troll.

Net etiquette dictates that, when you attack someone, you ping him.

I have never seen any evidence that Mekons is a Marxist.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-12   10:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: aristeides, robin, all (#34)

Knowing what you now know about Dennis Kucinich, do either of you suggest a coalition with a man like him is wise?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-12-12   10:23:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Jethro Tull (#76) (Edited)

I see no point in answering that question. What is wanted now is to build as large a coalition as possible behind Ron Paul. That means doing one's best to antagonize neither supporters nor opponents of Kucinich.

Many of us think that ending the war in Iraq and stopping wars of empire in general is the most important issue at the moment, to which everything else is secondary. To accomplish that, political alliances are necessary. It so happens that opponents of war on both ends of the political spectrum also oppose the Bush administration's unconstitutional power grabs. So that is an additional reason to ignore any differences that might exist on issues that, in comparison, are secondary.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-12   10:31:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: aristeides, FOH, IndieTX, all (#77)

I see no point in answering that question.

Actually that does answer my question.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-12-12   10:41:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Jethro Tull (#78) (Edited)

And you have made it clear that you are not interested in advancing Ron Paul's campaign.

I see you had no response to my arguments.

Are you capable of reasoning or arguing?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-12   10:48:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Jethro Tull (#76)

Knowing what you now know about Dennis Kucinich, do either of you suggest a coalition with a man like him is wise?

I know what Kucinich is about. He supports amnesty for illegal aliens. He supports slavery reparations. If he had his way he'd outlaw handguns and make it damn difficult to own longarms. And on top of that, he's a flaky guy who's hard to take seriously.

Having said that, I think that ending the war in Iraq and getting the neocons out of power is important enough of an issue that I support a coalition with ANYBODY. Since Kucinich opposed the war from day one and is the only one seriously pushing (deserved) impeachment for Bush and Cheney, he's on the side of a angels as far as I care.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2007-12-12   10:52:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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