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Title: One More Hate Letter
Source:
Davidduke.com
URL Source: http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=309#more-309
Published: Jun 16, 2005
Author: David Duke
Post Date: 2005-06-16 12:43:15 by Zoroaster
Keywords: Letter, More, Hate
Views: 3110
Comments: 129
6/14/2005 One More Hate Letter Posted under: General— @ 8:51 am Hate Letters Department The following is an excerpt from another Hate Letter from one of my obviously not-so-enamored admirers. I thought you might enjoy my response so I will share it with you. Dear Mr. Duke: I commend to you the article by Paul Johnson, the prominent historian, in the June issue of Commentary magazine concerning Anti-Semitism being a persistent mental disease. This confirms what I wrote you several years ago, concerning getting help from a psychiatrist. Incidentally,while you are in the Ukraine, I suggest you visit Babi Yar. I am sure you are making a lot of money from your skinhead and anti-semitic followers, but you evidently do not believe in the fatherhood of God, and the brotherhood of men. How sad. R. Ginson Your letter is typical of the absolute blind sightedness of the Jewish supremacism mental illness that YOU are infected with. Why do you mention Babi Yar in Ukraine, why no mention of the 7 million men, women and children murdered by the Jewish Bolshevik Kaganovich and his other Bolshevik henchmen. You obviously only value Jewish lives. To you only the Jews who died at Babi Yar are even worth mentioning, the 7 million Gentiles are just goyim to you! Don’t tell me about supremacism and racial hatred, go tell that to the NPR and Likud Party and the mass murderer Ariel Sharon and all of you damned Jewish supremacist accessories to his and Israel’s ethnic cleansing, torture and murder. If anti-Semitism is a disease, then what is anti-Gentilism, what is the Chosen People (master race) genocide boasted about in the Torah and Talmud? ( “and they killed every man, women, child, and spared not a thing that breathes") In fact the three main holidays are about genocide of Jewish enemies. Passover, the Passing of the evil spirit over the Jewish homes and striking down the first born of all Egyptians; Purim, the slaughter of Haman and 75,000 persians; and Hannakuk, the bloody massacre of the Greeks and the capture of the temple in Jerusalem. It seems your whole favored religion is rooted in genocide while Christianity is based on love and forgiveness. Not to even understand this tells me that you may well be the sick one, and you are the one who needs some help. Give your canned “Brotherhood of Man” speech to Jewish supremacists that you dare not oppose. I believe all people deserve respect and all people have a right to exist and have societies based on their own values and heritage. But, I really don’t take kindly to Jewish supremacists and their defenders who are trying to destroy my own heritage and freedom as well as every other people on the planet. If you want an example of the “Brotherhood of Man” launched by those wonderful supremacists such as Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Crystal and Wurmser take a look at our 1700 dead American patriots in Iraq, and 20,000 maimed Americans there as well as the 100,000 Iraqis who died and the hundreds of thousands who have been maimed and hurt in this bloody, insane war for Israel. Are you so stupid as not to know that this was a war created by the Jewish supremacists for Israel’s benefit? As for your suggestion about me making money opposing the Jewish extremists. Nothing is more costly and hard than going against the Jewish supremacist powers. As one Jewish observer said, “There is no business like Shoah business!” Holocaust mania and praising the Jewish supremacists can land you the media appearances and publishing contracts and the really big bucks. Opposing them causes a constant struggle to financially survive. As for going to a psychiatrist, remember that the father of psychiatry, Freud himself, was a vicious hater of Gentiles who wrote of his desire to destroy Europeans (see the quotations of Freud cited and fully footnoted in my book). I am sure a Jewish psychiatrist will pronounce anyone who opposes Jewish hatred to be mentally ill. Maybe you should go see your Jewish psychiatrist, pay him a few shekels and I am sure he will tell how you how loving and wonderful you are to worship the Jewish supremacists and blind your eyes to the oceans of blood found in their wake. Sincerely, David Duke
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#1. To: Arator, Don, Burkeman1 (#0)
FYI
If you love America, you'll hate Israel.
ROTFL. Should be a tag line...
Outstanding rebuttal by David Duke. I wasn't aware that Freud was a hater of gentiles--curious that Don mentioned Freud in a post to me the other day.
Ah, Jews had nothing to do with the passover, God did. He was punishing the people of Egypt for not letting the Jews be free and leave Egypt.
God is always good!
Nor I. ...7 million men, women and children murdered by the Jewish Bolshevik Kaganovich and his other Bolshevik henchmen.
Just another fabricated straw man argument. There is no anti-Gentilism. Arrogance, disdain, and conceit amongst Jewish leaders, probably. Hostility towards sworn enemies, most definitely. But no agenda to hate, destroy or subject all Gentiles. God "chose" the descendants of Jacob (Israel) to be God's people to fulfill God's purpose. God chose Israel. God's purpose was that Israel be a living testimony to God and also bear the Messiah. Israel did not choose God or decide why God chose them. Further, God's choosing was not to establish a master race (Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;) nor for genocide (the killing of any particular race). The quote seems to be a misquote of Deut 20:16. Here it is correct and in context: Now, you may argue God is "harsh" or "genocidal", but take that up with God - He was giving the orders for His reasons in His omnipotence and sovereignty. The Israelites were being instructed by God to obey Him. They didn't decide on their own to kill indiscriminatly. Passover is the Jewish celebration of when God's angel of death (who was punishing Egypt for Egypts slavery of Israel and defiance of God's instructions to free them) "passed over" Jewish homes who so marked themselves as "covered under" the blood of the paschel lamb. The Israelites didn't cause the deaths, God did. Purim is a minor festival (not a main holiday - but David Duke already knew that) celebrating, not the death of Hamaan who was trying to have all Jews killed: Hannakuk (actually Hanukkah or Chanukkah) is the Festival of Lights, another minor (not major) festival and celebrates the rededication of the Jewish Temple (recently desecrated by Antiochus IV) when it and Jerusalem and Judea were freed by the Maccabean revolt from the Greek occupying forces subsequent to Alexander the Great's invasion and occupation in 332 BC. Yes Greeks were massacred, but then they were Greek military occupying a land not their own. Occupation forces that desecrate a locals religious temples tend to get bloodied, do they not? And just where precisely is this Christian love and forgiveness David Duke exhorts when he was compelled to distort as many facts as required to target the man/country he hates? If David Duke were to adhere to his Christian teachings, he would hate what Ariel Sharon and others do but love the man himself as well as stop hating everyone who merely has a genetic or geographic affiliation with Sharon. And where is Duke's Christian love in hating Jews because they're Jewish and distorting the bible and history? Hate Ariel Sharon for his own behavior if you like. Hate Israel for their politics if you like. But don't paint God and all Israelites as if they are to blame. Judge the fruit, such as it is, for yourselves, but hopefully with open eyes.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I admire anyone who challenges authority and especially political correctness. DD qualifies.
Actually, way back when, a tribe from the Desert wastes decided to concoct an explanation of their place in the cosmos, they made themselves the universal center and the big sky deity's favorite children. Imagine that.
We aren't. Many of us take great pains to never generalize. We specifically say over and over the fanatical elements of the Likud party, and their neocon friends (some with dual-citizenship with Israel) in high places in our govt are the problem.
lol - then they sure botched it because their 'self-chosen fabrication by a fabricated deity' gameplan doesn't match what their 'fabricated deity' actually says in their 'fabricated' playbook. How can they be in control of all the fabrication parts and still get their own complete fabrication all wrong?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Absolutely I agree. I was arguing against David Duke's diatriabe, not the posters I pinged. I pinged them in even't they weren't aware of the biblical distortions Duke had made. Again, I absolutely agree the 'Palestinians' (a somewhat abused term, as well as group) have a right to their own country. In fact, so did Britain, Arab leaders and Jewish Leaders back in 1917-1922 when Israel was to be re-established from the British Palestine Mandate (formerly occupied by the Ottoman Turks). It hda been then agreed the Palestinians would get what was then known as the Transjordan (modern Jordan today) and the Jews living in the Transjordan were told to pack and move out (which they did), but then the Arabs never let the 'Palestinians' move into Transjordan. But, yes, the Palestinians do indeed deserve a/their homeland. Would you agree enforcing prior agreements for them to have all of the Transjordan ought to be an option, as they were originally promised by the British and Arabs?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
"Communal responsibility is based on the fact that each of us is born into a community and shares its history, memories, identities, achievements, and failures. We are not simply human beings who can retreat behind a Rawlsian 'veil of ignorance,' secure in our universal rights and historical innocence. We are also members of specific families and communities ... We are all coresponsible for that which our community has perpetrated or condoned, for both sins of commission and omission." The Kingdom of God is within you.
are dominated by the relatively small number of persons ... who (and nephew of famed Jewish psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud). The Kingdom of God is within you.
"It is possible to be an ex-Catholic or an ex-Baptist, but it is not possible to be an ex-Jew." "All is race; there is no other truth." The Kingdom of God is within you.
Honestly, I don't know. Anything would be better than as it stands now.
I have to wonder about that when I see tv shows they have out now and when I listen to NPR, the only radio station where I live. NPR seems to thrive on talkshows with topics pertaining to the bad white people. The other day they had an hour long show about how African Americans are discriminated by whites in our country, and yesterday there was a similar show about how the whites have hurt the native Americans throughout the centuries. Many of the white people in this area just don't listen to it anymore because it's saturated with anti-white talk shows. On tv there is a similar trend painting white Christian types as either neurotic, criminal and/or ignorant. It gets tiresome seeing white people being bashed, though at this point in time I would not want to be a regular Jewish person as they suffer because of the bad acts of their evil brethren such as Sharon and our media bosses, who along with our foriegn policy makers have brought scorn to Jews in general. It's the same way most of the world hates Americans now and paints all of us guilty of war crimes. There's too much stereotyping all the way around with a lot of different ethnic groups hating one another. It does not need to be promoted any further by our media.
The Prefect God does not play favorites. Those who quote the Bible as a "testament of God's favoritism of Jews" are merely admiring it as a momument over the grave of Christianity.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
"testament of God's favoritism of Jews" is obviously someone else's quote as you'll never find in my post #6, will you. What I did say was God chose them to fulfill God's purposes. God had chosen responsibilities (not favoritism) in mind for Israel: If your boss hands you a big assignment, did your boss 'play favorites' or did your boss set you apart for an important task? You also conveniently overlooked my statement and quote of Romans 10:12: (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I'm sorry I don't believe God actually did it. I believe that he allowed it to happen. Just like he allowed the devil to afflict Job.
God is always good!
The prevailing theory in Israel today is that the ancient Israelites never left Egypt but probably emerged out of Canaan. They took on a new identity as Israelites, and were perhaps joined or led by a small group of kinfolk from Egypt – so there might be a kernel of truth according to some scholars. In a book called "The Bible Unearthed," the Israeli archaeologist Israel Finklestein of Tel Aviv University and the archaeological journalist Neil Asher Silberman (no relation) raised similar doubts and offered a new theory about the roots of the Exodus story. They argue that it was written during the time of King Josiah of Judah in the 7th century BCE, 600 years after the Exodus. Many serious scholars doubt Moses ever existed.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
The narrative in Ex 11 & 12 (and earlier) makes it quite clear the LORD (the tetragrammaton for God's personal sacred name) claims personal responsibility and authority for killing the firstborn (as well as bringing about the former plagues). The LORD also claimed He personally would pass over those homes covered under the blood of the paschel lamb. That is a theological issue as well in that it is God who has the sovereignty to judge or 'pass over' anyone covered in the blood of Jesus (or the paschel lamb) and such sovereignty to so judge or pass over is not delegated by God (well, other than to God the Son). I'd be interested in any cites to the contrary. Further one of the points in Exodus (unlike Job) is God is making it clear to Egypt and the Israelites that God was Egypts adversary, not Moses or magicians or spirits . God was also making the point that He was bringing about what He declared He would do.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I seldom quote the Bible. "Favoritism" is my word. As I wrote previously, "The Prefect God does not play favorites." I am neither a Zionist, Christian Zionist, nor a Noahide. Nothing is more dangerous to freedom than fanatics claiming divine authority for some unholy cause.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
So were you just making statements against interest and using my post as a foil, or do you actually have some specific issue with what I wrote? Moses was the only human to have been favored by God to have seen God face to face. Dan 9:23 "At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; Mat 3:17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." Somehow I suspect you're neither surprised nor disappointed.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
They planted the seeds of fabrication and thousands of permutations have since sprouted by opportunists that wish to wield a moral Damacles sword. You seem to be well versed in the scripture, if you'll allow me to digress a moment then maybe you can solve a question that's been nagging me lately. The tower of Babel was destroyed because man was building too high and thus encroaching on God's Kingdom, correct? God's Kingdom is eternal, timeless and immovable, correct? Then how come mankind is now able to traverse God's kingdom in Aircraft at will? Or launch satellites, capsules and people into space? Has he become much more lenient since the Old Testament and doesn't mind airplane noise interfering with the fanfare of his angle's chorus. There are many, many other examples of Biblical stories which are farcical in the face of modern science but rather than answering for their inaccuracy, at that point they become interpretations which you aren't supposed to read literally. Right?
Well.. the tower is only mentioned in Genesis chapter 11:1 - 9.. thats it.. and
it wasn't because of where they were building the tower and how high it was..
the scripture says.. 3 They said to each other, "Come, let us make
oven-fired bricks." They had brick for stone and asphalt for mortar. 4 And they
said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky.
Let us make a name for ourselves; otherwise, we will be scattered over the face
of the whole earth." Genesis 11:5 Then the Lord came down to look over the
city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The Lord said, "If, as one
people all having the same language, they have begun to do this, then nothing
they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let Us go down there and
confuse their language so that they will not understand one another's speech." 8
So the Lord scattered them from there over the face of the whole earth, and they
stopped building the city. 9 Therefore its name is called Babylon, for there the
Lord confused the language of the whole earth, and from there the Lord scattered
them over the face of the whole earth. It has more to do with the people's
attitude.. that they would be equal to God.. not that it was going to be in the
skies..
I should add that this attitude also has more to do with 'getting to God' or
seeking God (going to heaven) by their own means rather than by God's plan..
man's idea vs God's plan.. "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush
The KVJ says "whose top may reach unto heaven". Which is a specific locational reference. If the tower was a physical manifestation of their attitudes, surely space flight rivals any ambitions of biblical people, so are some types of transgressions no longer unpleasant to the Lord? How about laboring on the Sabbath which is said to be punishable by death (Exodus 35:2), or the abomination of eating shellfish Lev. 11:10, or contact with women during their period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24).
Well the KJV is not a very good translation.. #1.. the OT is the new concealed
and the NT is the Old revealed. The OT although the things did physically
happen..they are allegory for spiritual things.. the plan of salvation started
in Genesis at the beginning. All that happened was to point us to God's plan..
Those Levitical laws..had to do with what were considered unclean and were an
allegory for sin.. (most had to do with health issues which were in the best
interests of the people.. such as shellfish.. bottom feeders.. could cause the
people illness... ) Jesus said he is the fulfillment of the Law.. so if we
accept Him we are no longer under the Law.. for if He is in us.. all are
kept in us through Him..
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush
Jesus said he is the fulfillment of the Law.. so if we accept Him we are no longer under the Law.. for if He is in us.. all are kept in us Necessity is a fine selling point, informercials were smart to follow religion on that feature. If a salesman told me "Hey, you are inherently evil and need my redemption serum" I would probably assault him. Damnation is not a part of my system of beliefs which preempts the need for a savior. That point is irreconcilable with the faithful who won't deny themselves and others the prospect of divine punishment. Nietzsche summed it up best for me "Fellow creators the creator seeks, not corpses or herds or believers." Aspiring to be a "fellow creator" is diametrically opposed to Christianity as I understand it and I make it a point to never ever handicap my spiritual potential.
You have to actually understand the bible (even if you don't agree with it) to know what it intended as history, as doctrine, as spiritual, as physical, as literal, or symbolic. There are differing views among theologians regarding interpretive systems, and they would disagree in their personal interpretive views, but they would agree on the need for correctly interpreting the different kinds of passages. To be fair in any question or criticism you might care to raise, you must first be 'in the right ballpark' insofar as knowing what God intended to be conveyed. For example, just because the bible records slaughter in historical accounts does mean the bible "teaches" God expects one to go out and likewise slaughter. Genesis 1 is one of those "biblical stories" as you put it, that is literal and physical and even supported by modern science. Consider The Age of the Universe by Dr. Gerald Schroeder, in which he describes a possible reconciliation of the scientifically measured age of the universe (some 15B years) with the Genesis account of six days. Not "farcical" but a trustworthy physical literal account that can be disected and studied and aligned with what science measures and understands (albeit imperfectly as yet). If the article at all interests you, I further recommend Dr. Schroeder's book "Genesis and the Big Bang" for an intriguing elucidation of how the original Hebrew text conveyed to the ancient sages what cosmologists are now begining to understand about how the universe began. Not quite. The builders were essentially guilty of pride and a desire to obtain or reach God's domain on their own effort or merit, by their own hand. Human hubris being what it is, anything they imagined they could achieve they assumed they would in fact achieve - that is overreaching ego, not confidence. God destroyed it not because God was threatened by their civil engineering skill, but to put an end to their collective pride. A false premise. God's kingdom is also infinite. Where has man been able to traverse God's Kingdom? If by Kingdom you mean "heaven", clearly no aircraft has traversed it (well, outside of the Bermuda triangle anyway - lol). If by "kingdom" you really meant "creation", well then man has traversed the earth, moon and nearby planets, not nearly so much as the infinite extent of God's entire creation, no? A kingdom is also the domain of a King - where the King reigns or lives. Jesus would live and reign in our hearts, spiritually, and likewise no aircraft has traversed our "hearts" either. And most often in the bible "heart" does not mean the blood pumping organ, but the place from which love, feeling and belief emanate - clearly more a mental concept but not purely intellectual either as feeling and instinct are involved as well. The key to understanding the bible is properly interpreting it and such rules of interpretation are known as a "hermeneutic", the benefit of a consistently applied hermeneutic is to always correctly differentiate between what is history, doctrine, spiritual, physical, literal, or symbolic. A few more examples: Before you presume the bible is farcical, ask yourself, if it were true, if God is real and wanted to prepare His creation for an eternal life in His presence or outside of His presence, what does God accomplish by nuturing and cultivating humanity as He did and thus writing the bible the way it is? Or asked another way, assume it is correct and then seek to understand and verify it, reserving your own judgement to dismiss it after you've 'mastered' it all. And bring your brain. God delights in sincere questions and sincere truth seekers. (ping to others who may have an interest)
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I dont quite follow.. you had asked what the OT references where.. not sure how it went to Nietzsche.. Seems you are seeing the negative and I see it as positive.. All I can say is each of us has to come to an understanding ourselves.. I didnt become a Christian out of fear of damnation.. not at all.. it was quite the opposite..
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush
Yikes! Correction: For example, just because the bible records slaughter in historical accounts does not mean the bible "teaches" God expects one to go out and likewise slaughter. (Sheesh... I proof and proof and proof, and still screw up, big time)
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Agreed.. just as the difference in Cain and Abel's sacrifices..
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush
The Kingdom of God is within you.
That's cool.
what does God accomplish by nuturing and cultivating humanity as He did and thus writing the bible the way it is? Ah, He wrote it? With a word processor? And bring your brain. That's the problem. I do. And the scripture doesn't reconcile with the natural world. Animals don't talk for instance. People can't live in the belly of a whale. Weather patterns are not such that they can encompass the entire world in a flood. And the one remaining family, biologically speaking cannot replenish the whole population. We know from the fossil record, there were bipedal hominids, which were never accounted for in the creation story (that I'm aware of). We are told Man was made in God's image, but what about Homo Erectus? We have in our bodies remenants of an evolutionary past. The human tailbone, the now-useless appendix (God had extra parts lying around, or what?). Wisdom teeth often grow in impacted because the jawbone used to be longer. An entire molecular world which science didn't know about is now unmitigated fact. And nothing about this essential universe was alluded to in the scripture. Dihygrogen Oxide molecules, for instance, must function a certain way and the reality is they cannot stray from their nature even if Jesus walks on a mess of them. Why would God go to the painstaking effort of creating such balance only to make a mockery of it to amaze us with miracles? God delights in sincere questions and sincere truth seekers. He might, but his dogma doesn't seem to.
Did you even try to read and understand the one link I provided? Did you actually bring your brain as you claim or did you just bring presumption and attitude? And why should it? The bible is the story of what God did and why. God has left it to us (using the brains He gave us) to figure out how He did it. Your complaint is that the bible isn't believable, and your argument is because in spite it's having provided the accurate cosmological answer, 3000 years before science even knew there was a question, it is silent (not wrong, just merely silent) on the subject of molecular physics. Instead of investigating for accuracy what the bible does say, you have dismissed it because of something it did not say. Is that the standard of truth you would want applied to what you write in your posts? Would you want to be judged not on the accuracy of what you did write, but your failure to include mention of every topic in which every lurker has some interest? To be believable the bible merely has to be truthful on everything it does say. And neither archeology nor science have sufficiently advanced to have full grasp of every subject the bible does cover. That is precisely the 'Tower of Babel' kind of hubris that God detests. To presume that you know all that can be known not only about water, its phases, surface tension, molecular forces, gravity, bouyancy, etc but also whether Jesus was supported by water tension, bouyancy, null-gravity field, tractor beams, or whatever, and to further presume that God is limited to the same extent as your understanding, ie, that God can only do what you understand is possible, is unscientific. Even science allows for what it doesn't yet understand, but not you? Because we need the balance for our physical survival and existance , and the miraclulous is provided as demonstrable evidence that God does not. That God is in fact beyond it all and in control of it all. God is not a prisoner of His creation and the miracluous reveals to us (well, to anyone with eyes to see) that He is in fact "God".
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Amen and well stated...
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush
Sorry I'm just getting around to this now. You're right: Purim is a minor holiday. Chanukah is too: both shrink to comparative insignificance behind the High Holidays, of which the major two are Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. But I'm afraid you're not right about the number of Persian deaths involved with Purim. Read Esther 9. Sorry...
Instead of investigating for accuracy what the bible does say, you have dismissed it because of something it did not say. I did. It says animals used to talk and people used to live to be several hundred years old. Along with many other stretches of the imagination that the faithful gloss over or claim those can't be read literally. did you just bring presumption and attitude? I'm not grilling anyone or trying to be an asshole. I'm on a search for faith too, but I insist on a docrtine that jibes with the world as it presents itself. Not a compendium of Asiatic fairy tales. And neither archeology nor science have sufficiently advanced to have full grasp of every subject the bible does cover. Because they're at odds. For God to have made the Earth and humanity his special project, it used to be believed that we were at the very center of the universe. As we've learned that's not remotely the case, we've dragged religion with us kicking and screaming. When it comes to critical questions abour creation, Religion is inflexible. It insists on not being questioned (and this excercise seems to irritate you - not my intention) because the answers show it in a bad light or make it look downright ridiculous. Science thrives on "heresy" towards it's subjects. More questions and more doubts lead it's students further toward real truths about our structural makeup. Others are always stuck on ancient and irrelevant "Begats, begets and begones". I notice you glossed over my sentence about "We have in our bodies remenants of an evolutionary past. The human tailbone, the now-useless appendix (God had extra parts lying around, or what?). Wisdom teeth often grow in impacted because the jawbone used to be longer." We have (or had ;) tails for crying out loud, like animals. So it God a comedian? I would buy that explanation. Dihygrogen Oxide molecules, for instance, must function a certain way and the reality is they cannot stray from their nature even if Jesus walks on a mess of them. That is precisely the 'Tower of Babel' kind of hubris that God detests. Right, the faithful don't like questioning by scientific facts. They don't like explaining why the Earth is strewn with the fossils of creatures never mentioned in the creation account. Our how the immortal soul can be captured and tortured relentlessly when the central nervous system, a necessity for feeling pain remains here on terra firma to rot after death. Or how human beings, with a physical makeup we know a lot about can live to be 700 years old. Joints, cartilage, eyesight, the respiratory and circulatory systems; these things give out after 70 years or so on average. How did they used to last hundreds as repeatedly stated in the Bible? Did God at some point start making budget humans? Yeah, I know what you're going to say. That I should take it on faith that every mind boggling impossibility happened and it's our science that is lacking here. Bullfeathers!
Great posts, Dude, but there is no arguing with fanatics who believe they have divine knowlegd and are on a divine mission. "At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytzing zeal on behalf of religions or political idols." Aldous Huxley (1956)
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
And yet, I did not ask you to take on faith the earth is 6 days old, did I. No, in fact I actually offered you a scientific article based on relativity and an expanding universe which establishes an agreement between the biblical account and modern cosmology: The first of the Biblical days lasted 24 hours, viewed from the "beginning of time perspective." But the duration from our perspective was 8 billion years. The second day, from the Bible's perspective lasted 24 hours. From our perspective it lasted half of the previous day, 4 billion years. The third 24 hour day also included half of the previous day, 2 billion years. The fourth 24 hour day -- one billion years. The fifth 24 hour day -- one-half billion years. The sixth 24 hour day -- one-quarter billion years. When you add up the Six Days, you get the age of the universe at 15 and 3/4 billion years. The same as modern cosmology. Is it by chance? Actually, you were offered one above, but what you have insisted on is ignoring it and shifting to new targets. And should you be offered answers to those too, will you ignore them as well and shift yet again to other targets? You're the one that seems so inflexibile as to be incapable of acknowledging answers and questions posed back to you. But what is irritating about this exchange is your hypocrisy in ignoring those answers and questions while complaining that a couple questions were "glossed over" out of the dozen that were in fact answered with detail and clarity - enough so that you ducked them. And incidently, I do in fact believe it is your intention to provoke and irritate. Your first post to me alluded to the "big sky deity" and deliberate fraud in the biblical account, and every post since has been strewn with sarcasm and derision, but oddly, no acknowledgements or response to answers given. I didn't gloss over it. It didn't even exist in your first question to me about the 'Tower of babel' which I did answer fully. Here then is your post #24 to me in it's entirety: You seem to be well versed in the scripture, if you'll allow me to digress a moment then maybe you can solve a question that's been nagging me lately. The tower of Babel was destroyed because man was building too high and thus encroaching on God's Kingdom, correct? God's Kingdom is eternal, timeless and immovable, correct? Then how come mankind is now able to traverse God's kingdom in Aircraft at will? Or launch satellites, capsules and people into space? Has he become much more lenient since the Old Testament and doesn't mind airplane noise interfering with the fanfare of his angle's chorus. There are many, many other examples of Biblical stories which are farcical in the face of modern science but rather than answering for their inaccuracy, at that point they become interpretations which you aren't supposed to read literally. Right? And here in your post #35 you (not I) "glossed over" every answer I gave you, and instead shifted targets and asked about the human tailbone, wisdom teeth, the bible being silent on molecular physics, and God's ability and purpose in the miraculous. In response, in my post #36, I asked if you had read the link I provided and pointed out the illogic in criticising the bible for being silent on molecular physics and explained why God does miracles. Did you acknowledge or respond to any of that? No. You instead have shifted targets yet again and complain I glossed over one of your questions, when you have glossed over every answer you have been previously given. But I didn't gloss over it so much as I didn't address it at all, wasting my time (apparently) instead on a what I thought you'd appreciate was a bigger biblical/cosmological issue. While I reserve judgement on your premise that an "evolutionary past" is the only explanation for a "human tailbone", I don't have an explanation. [BTW, that's what honesty looks like.] And if on the basis of one person not having one explanation you wish to declare victory, then by all means do so. Likewise, if your "trump card" is always going to be the bible didn't discuss every scientific topic you imagined, then declare victory and walk away. Question all you like, but at least have the common intellectual courtesy to respond to the answers you are given. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you clearly understood that the answer you were given exposed a false presumption that Jesus' weight had to be supported by molecular surface tension and that science understands perfectly all the physics involved, and all required information and data is known and there are and never will be any other mechanism, thus the only conclusion is that God can not walk on water. You clearly understood that science has no explanation for the miraculous (as yet anyway). But rather, for the sake of your argument, you instead take the position that science is at present sufficiently all-knowing to declare any not-understood biblical account as false. There was a time (about 40 years ago) when science "knew" the universe had no beginning that it always was, and the Genesis account of a universe created from nothing was patently absurd. Well, the biblical account hasn't changed, but science matured to the point it now understands something it did not understand previously. That maturation will continue. Perhaps likewise there will be a day when science will understand how God might be able to walk on water. But for you to pretend you weren't offered a solid explanation showing alignment between the world as it presents itself (15 3/4 Billion years old) and the biblical account (6 days old) is simply dishonest. Perhaps when you acknowledge and respond to the points made in the answers you have been given, we can move on to whatever you believe to have been glossed over. Otherwise we're just sucking up bandwidth without communicating, with no chance to intelligently agree or disagree.
#2. To: Zoroaster (#0)
“There is no business like Shoah business!”
We'll split the threads. You can have chem trails, 911, and Bildeberg. I want gold bugs and racists.
#3. To: Zoroaster, Jethro Tull, 1776, Zipporah, robin, Dakmar, itisa1mosttoolate, wbales, Dude Lebowski, Ricky J, Red Jones, Eoghan (#0)
If anti-Semitism is a disease, then what is anti-Gentilism, what is the Chosen People (master race) genocide boasted about in the Torah and Talmud? ( “and they killed every man, women, child, and spared not a thing that breathes")
#4. To: Zoroaster (#0)
In fact the three main holidays are about genocide of Jewish enemies. Passover, the Passing of the evil spirit over the Jewish homes and striking down the first born of all Egyptians;
#5. To: christine (#3)
I wasn't aware that Freud was a hater of gentiles
You won't read this in a history book in high school. Some of these bolsheviks must have been the grandparents of today's Russian (90% Jewish) Oligarchs.
#6. To: Zoroaster, christine, RickyJ, Robin, Zipporah, Fatidic, Diana, Barak (#0)
then what is anti-Gentilism,
what is the Chosen People (master race) genocide boasted about in the Torah and Talmud? ( "and they killed every man, women, child, and spared not a thing that breathes")
Deu 20:16-18 (NASB)
The Israelites, prior to entering the Promised Land given them by God, were further instructed by God (the same God a "Christian" David Duke alleges to serve) to destroy selected and specfic tribes that were to be punished by God for their idolotry and depravity to prevent them from further influencing the Israelites.
"Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. (17) "But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you, (18) so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the LORD your God. In fact the three main holidays are about genocide of Jewish enemies. Passover, the Passing of the evil spirit over the Jewish homes and striking down the first born of all Egyptians; Purim, the slaughter of Haman and 75,000 persians; and Hannakuk, the bloody massacre of the Greeks and the capture of the temple in Jerusalem.
Est 3:5-6 (NASB) (5) When Haman saw that Mordecai neither bowed down nor paid homage to him, Haman was filled with rage. (6) But he disdained to lay hands on Mordecai alone, for they had told him who the people of Mordecai were; therefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews, the people of Mordecai, who were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus.
But a celebration that God through Esther and King Ahasuerus had saved the Jews whom Haman was trying to kill. No persian deaths (othr than just Haman's himself) were involved in either this 'episode' or the celebration. It seems your whole favored religion is rooted in genocide while Christianity is based on love and forgiveness.
#7. To: christine (#3)
#8. To: Starwind (#6)
God "chose" the descendants of Jacob (Israel) to be God's people to fulfill God's purpose. God chose Israel. God's purpose was that Israel be a living testimony to God and also bear the Messiah. Israel did not choose God or decide why God chose them. Further, God's choosing was not to establish a master race (Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;) nor for genocide (the killing of any particular race).
#9. To: Starwind (#6)
But don't paint God and all Israelites as if they are to blame.
Wouldn't you agree?
Most of us believe Israel has the right to exist. I know I do. I also believe that the Palistinians have the right to their own country. Do you?
#10. To: Dude Lebowski (#8)
they made themselves the universal center and the big sky deity's favorite children
#11. To: robin (#9)
We aren't. Many of us take great pains to never generalize. We specifically say over and over the fanatical elements of the Likud party, and their neocon friends (some with dual-citizenship with Israel) in high places in our govt are the problem. Wouldn't you agree?
Most of us believe Israel has the right to exist. I know I do. I also believe that the Palistinians have the right to their own country. Do you?
#12. To: Zoroaster (#0)
-- Amitai Etzioni, 'Kristnallnacht' Remembered. History and Communal Responsibility. Commonweal, February 12, 1999, p. 12-16
{Note: Etzioni, who was talking about Germans in the above quote, apparently changes his views about communal responsibility with the changing moon. Or more likely, like so many Jewish observers, he understands one standard of judgment for Jews, and another for everyone else.}.
#13. To: Zoroaster (#0)
"If we understand the mechanisms and motives of the group mind, it is
now possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will
without their knowing it ... The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our
country ... In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere
of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we
understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses.
It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."
-- Edward Bernays,
the "Father of Propaganda"
The Father of Spin: Edward L. Bernays & the Birth of PR, PR Watch,
2nd Quarter, 1999
#14. To: wbales (#1)
--- Alice Bloch, Jewish feminist and lesbian
--- Benjamin Disraeli, Jewish P.M. of Britain
#15. To: Starwind (#11)
Would you agree enforcing prior agreements for them to have all of the Transjordan ought to be an option, as they were originally promised by the British and Arabs?
#16. To: Starwind (#6)
There is no anti-Gentilism. Arrogance, disdain, and conceit amongst Jewish leaders, probably. Hostility towards sworn enemies, most definitely. But no agenda to hate, destroy or subject all Gentiles.
#17. To: Starwind (#6)
#18. To: Zoroaster (#17)
The Prefect God does not play favorites. Those who quote the Bible as a "testament of God's favoritism of Jews" are merely admiring it as a momument over the grave of Christianity.
1) To be a living testimony to God
2) To bear the messiah Further, God's choosing was not to establish a master race (Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;)
"not to establish a master race"
Now just how, pray tell, do you construe "God's favoritism of Jews" from what I actually wrote?
"no distinction between Jew and Greek"
"all [or any] who call on Him"
#19. To: Starwind (#6)
The Israelites didn't cause the deaths, God did.
#20. To: RickyJ (#4)
In fact the three main holidays are about genocide of Jewish enemies. Passover, the Passing of the evil spirit over the Jewish homes and striking down the first born of all Egyptians; Ah, Jews had nothing to do with the passover, God did. He was punishing the people of Egypt for not letting the Jews be free and leave Egypt.
#21. To: RickyJ (#19)
I'm sorry I don't believe God actually did it. I believe that he allowed it to happen. Just like he allowed the devil to afflict Job.
#22. To: Starwind (#18)
#23. To: Zoroaster (#22)
"The Prefect God does not play favorites."
"play" favorites, no, but "have" favorites, most certainly.
#24. To: Starwind (#10)
How can they be in control of all the fabrication parts and still get their own complete fabrication all wrong?
#25. To: Dude Lebowski (#24)
#26. To: Zipporah (#25)
They had brick for stone and asphalt for mortar. 4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky. Let us make a name for ourselves; otherwise, we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
#27. To: Dude Lebowski (#26)
#28. To: Zipporah (#27)
the plan of salvation started in Genesis at the beginning ...
#29. To: Dude Lebowski, Diana, Zipporah, fatidic, Barak (#24)
There are many, many other examples of Biblical stories which are farcical in the face of modern science but rather than answering for their inaccuracy, at that point they become interpretations which you aren't supposed to read literally. Right?
The tower of Babel was destroyed because man was building too high and thus encroaching on God's Kingdom, correct?
God's Kingdom is eternal, timeless and immovable, correct? Then how come mankind is now able to traverse God's kingdom in Aircraft at will?
#30. To: Dude Lebowski (#28)
#31. To: All (#29)
#32. To: Starwind (#29)
The builders were essentially guilty of pride and a desire to obtain or reach God's domain on their own effort or merit, by their own hand. Human hubris being what it is, anything they imagined they could achieve they assumed they would in fact achieve - that is overreaching ego, not confidence. God destroyed it not because God was threatened by their civil engineering skill, but to put an end to their collective pride.
#33. To: Diana, Eoghan, Bayonne (#16)
On 30 March the Heretical Press was raided by Metropolitan Police (Special Branch) and Humberside Police and almost all book stock, including scientific papers and material which has been published without hint of difficulty for several years, was taken away. Three computers were impounded. The arrest was on "Suspicion of Incitement to Racial Hatred," particularly in respect of TALES OF THE HOLOHOAX. After being further interviewed by West Yorkshire Police Sheppard was released, the renegade government's evident aim being to harass their political opponents and copy their hard drives. All titles except THE TYRANNY OF AMBIGUITY are currently unavailable. Your patience is requested while normal operations are restored.
#34. To: Zipporah (#30)
All I can say is each of us has to come to an understanding ourselves.. I didnt become a Christian out of fear of damnation.. not at all.. it was quite the opposite..
#35. To: Starwind (#29)
#36. To: Dude Lebowski (#35)
And the scripture doesn't reconcile with the natural world.
An entire molecular world which science didn't know about is now unmitigated fact. And nothing about this essential universe was alluded to in the scripture.
Dihygrogen Oxide molecules, for instance, must function a certain way and the reality is they cannot stray from their nature even if Jesus walks on a mess of them.
Why would God go to the painstaking effort of creating such balance only to make a mockery of it to amaze us with miracles?
#37. To: Starwind (#36)
God is not a prisoner of His creation and the miracluous reveals to us (well, to anyone with eyes to see) that He is in fact "God".
#38. To: Starwind (#6)
But a celebration that God through Esther and King Ahasuerus had saved the Jews whom Haman was trying to kill. No persian deaths (othr than just Haman's himself) were involved in either this 'episode' or the celebration.
#39. To: Starwind (#36)
#40. To: Dude Lebowski (#39)
#41. To: Dude Lebowski (#39)
Yeah, I know what you're going to say. That I should take it on faith that every mind boggling impossibility happened and it's our science that is lacking here. Bullfeathers!
The calculations come out to be as follows:
I'm on a search for faith too, but I insist on a docrtine that jibes with the world as it presents itself.
Religion is inflexible. It insists on not being questioned (and this excercise seems to irritate you - not my intention) because the answers show it in a bad light or make it look downright ridiculous.
I notice you glossed over my sentence about "We have in our bodies remenants of an evolutionary past. The human tailbone, the now-useless appendix (God had extra parts lying around, or what?). Wisdom teeth often grow in impacted because the jawbone used to be longer." We have (or had ;) tails for crying out loud, like animals. So it God a comedian? I would buy that explanation.
They planted the seeds of fabrication and thousands of permutations have since sprouted by opportunists that wish to wield a moral Damacles sword.
I answered it entriely in my post #29, glossing over or omitting nothing, as you well know. Right, the faithful don't like questioning by scientific facts.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
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