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Title: Why Did Ron Paul Give Up on the LP?
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.nolanchart.com/article384.html
Published: Dec 6, 2007
Author: Christine Smith
Post Date: 2008-03-12 15:55:21 by Peppa
Keywords: RonPaul, ChristineSmith
Views: 117
Comments: 14

Why Did Ron Paul Give Up on the LP?

Why did Ron Paul leave the LP as a means to advance liberty as a candidate? I'm asking this of myself over and over. Is the reason because he saw the LP as a futile path? A waste of his time and energy? No place for an individual who really wants to be part of achieving liberty in America now?
by Christine Smith (Libertarian)
Why Did Ron Paul Give Up on the LP?
A message from Christine Smith, December 6th, 2007

Why did Ron Paul leave the LP as a means to advance liberty as a candidate? I'm asking this of myself over and over. Is the reason because he saw the LP as a futile path? A waste of his time and energy? No place for an individual who really wants to be part of achieving liberty in America now? For myself, as someone who is devoted to advancing liberty and sharing libertarianism, I am having serious doubts as to whether the LP deserves individuals willing to give of themselves so selflessly. Perhaps Ron Paul's experiences brought him to such a point and decision. I know my experiences with the LP are pointing that way.
Every several days, it seems I learn of yet another individual I respect who has left the LP, and always for reasons I now more completely understand than ever before.
They are individuals who achieve progress in advocating liberty. They are the truest libertarians I have ever met. And they left the LP.
These are all individuals who tried to make a difference within the LP and finally made the decision that the LP was unworthy of their continued support and participation, that the LP did not deserve what they offered to give, that they could accomplish much more good work for liberty outside the LP rather than within it (and they've done it!).
I am at a point where I am seriously questioning whether the LP is a political party to take seriously at all or is it primarily a place for those who merely sit around and talk and argue but never actually do anything of substance? Is it a place where winners (those who actually work hard to achieve progress and success in advancing liberty in our nation) find themselves surrounded by losers (those whose priority is not liberty but who use the cause of liberty for other agendas)?
I have been reluctant to follow that line of thinking until now.
Because now, the more experiences I have, the more I wonder if all those who left the party are right.
I know it was the right choice for themselves because I see them joyfully doing good work which makes a difference, and now I also am thinking that maybe they are right about the utter failure of the LP as a means to make meaningful progress toward liberty...maybe it is a waste of one's time.
Since writing 'I Will Not Compromise - An Open Letter to libertarians,' I have obviously become even more discouraged, and even more disillusioned about the LP.
I am yet undecided, and though I yet am making a conscious choice to believe there is yet hope and yet a possibility that the LP may be a viable vehicle to advance liberty, I am uncertain. I am discouraged. I am wondering...and I am watching. Meanwhile, my appreciation goes to Ron Paul (and his supporters) for doing more to advance liberty in this nation than anyone has ever done in the political arena before.
Christine Smith Libertarian Candidate for President http://www.LibertarianForPresident.com Christine Smith for President 15400 W. 64th Ave., E9-105 Arvada, Colorado 80007 (303) 731-5879 PAID FOR BY CHRISTINE SMITH FOR PRESIDENT

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Poster Comment:
Older but interesting. The comments at the link are truly worth a read as well.
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#1. To: Peppa (#0)
Why did Ron Paul leave the LP as a means to advance liberty as a candidate?

Because he saw that liberty loving U.S. citizens are a small minority of the population and a shrinking segment at that. Also, Dr. Paul is just about a lone voice crying out in the wilderness among inept (read corrupt/cowardly) politicians.
Well - at least that's what I saw from my vantage point.
Our citizens do not deserve a President as good as Dr. Ron Paul. What we deserve is higher taxes, more government inefficiency, war, regulations and devalued currency.(me)
"I am further of opinion that it would be better for us to have [no laws] at all than to have them in so prodigious numbers as we have."
Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne (1533–1592)
"I'm pro-choice.........on light bulbs!"
Joseph Farah (2008)
catcher posted on 2008-03-12 16:32:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: catcher (#1)
Because he saw that liberty loving U.S. citizens are a small minority of the population and a shrinking segment at that. Also, Dr. Paul is just about a lone voice crying out in the wilderness among inept (read corrupt/cowardly) politicians.
Well - at least that's what I saw from my vantage point.

Thanks catcher.
I think we can attribute much to gov't schools as well. Too much to list to explain how we got here. Lulled into comfort, and cowed into silence.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa posted on 2008-03-12 21:24:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: Peppa (#2)
(snip) Too much to list to explain how we got here. Lulled into comfort, and cowed into silence.

Yes, it is too much to completely explain, but it can be summed up with the point that our citizens have allowed ourselves to be placed under a complicated form of socialism where we are compelled to pay for an unbelievable array of services where corporations and government entities hold a monopoly on the price and laws concerning said services.
The end result is that personal responsibility has just about been eliminated as a trait of the citizens.
The Ron Paul campaign was attractive to the few citizens we have that love liberty and hate the nanny state.
Our citizens do not deserve a President as good as Dr. Ron Paul. What we deserve is higher taxes, more government inefficiency, war, regulations and devalued currency.(me)
"I am further of opinion that it would be better for us to have [no laws] at all than to have them in so prodigious numbers as we have."
Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne (1533–1592)
"I'm pro-choice.........on light bulbs!"
Joseph Farah (2008)
catcher posted on 2008-03-13 11:41:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: Peppa (#0)
Probably because he realized that the American people have been conditioned believe that voting third party is "wasting your vote" (the DNC and RNC say so, the mass media says so, people believe it, and it becomes self-fulfilling).

Rupert_Pupkin posted on 2008-03-13 11:45:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: catcher (#3)
Yes, it is too much to completely explain, but it can be summed up with the point that our citizens have allowed ourselves to be placed under a complicated form of socialism where we are compelled to pay for an unbelievable array of services where corporations and government entities hold a monopoly on the price and laws concerning said services.
The end result is that personal responsibility has just about been eliminated as a trait of the citizens.
The Ron Paul campaign was attractive to the few citizens we have that love liberty and hate the nanny state.

Agreed. Change is uncomfortable. Most rather be victims of it and bitch. There are no bailouts coming for the masses.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa posted on 2008-03-13 11:52:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#4)
Probably because he realized that the American people have been conditioned believe that voting third party is "wasting your vote" (the DNC and RNC say so, the mass media says so, people believe it, and it becomes self-fulfilling).

I don't agree with you, but I did read something interesting about such this morning. www.nolanchart.com/article3139 .html

Considering that it looks difficult, I don't know how many are up to it.
Making a 3rd party viable, is going to take more than keyboard cowboys to get it done.
I have also been reading that many do not find the NEED to associate or affliate with any party. (That's me). But to achieve political change, you have to sign up or shut up I guess.
Anyway, that article is pretty interesting, as are the comments. Great discussions going on in a number of posts.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa posted on 2008-03-13 11:57:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#4)
It don't come easy, You know it don't come easy. It don't come easy, You know it don't come easy.

Gotta pay your dues If you wanna sing the blues And you know it don't come easy. You don't have to shout Or leap about You can even play them easy.

Forget about the past And all your sorrow, You jump on past It will soon be your tommorow.

I don't ask for much I only want it first And you know it don't come easy. And this love of mine Keeps growing all the time And you know it just ain't easy --Ringo Starr
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa posted on 2008-03-13 12:04:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#4)
Rupert, RP was on Cavuto yesterday re: Feds , and it was interesting to note, other than being asked if he would run 3rd party, (no, can't see it at this time), but that others may pick up the message and run outside the GOP.

If you care to watch it:
www.dailypaul.com/node/42249
Warning: Hand wringers need not suffer through this.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa posted on 2008-03-13 12:32:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: Peppa (#0)
There's no such thing as "paying dues." I've run for congress with the GOP team jacket and it's conformance, not dues that's wanted. It's not conformance to any ideology, mind you; it's conformance to the game as played. Of course, if you have an ideology of any kind, you'll have a much harder time playing the game. www.horningforgovernor.com
Freedom - It's not just a Good Idea; it's the Law!
andrewhorning posted on 2008-03-13 13:05:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: andrewhorning (#9) (Edited)
There's no such thing as "paying dues." I've run for congress with the GOP team jacket and it's conformance, not dues that's wanted. It's not conformance to any ideology, mind you; it's conformance to the game as played. Of course, if you have an ideology of any kind, you'll have a much harder time playing the game. www.horningforgovernor.com

You're right on there Andrew.
My little point about change, was that 'it don't come easy'. :)
I'll check out your website.
"if you have an ideology of any kind, you'll have a much harder time playing the game."
THAT is the stone cold truth. Slaves, free thyselves from self imposed chains!
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa posted on 2008-03-13 13:21:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: andrewhorning (#9)
Unfortunately, what SJR 7 really does is formalize the thinking that marriage is between a man, a woman, and Caesar. Christians should define marriage as a Holy covenant between a man, a woman, and God - not as a state contract with all sorts of bennies. But with Social Security, bereavement pay, visitation rights, property rights, work rules, tax rules and more rules, rules rules from the Great Golden Calf of State, we’ve desecrated the Holy covenant, and have put self-acclaimed Christians in the preposterous role of advocating legal disparity in matters of simple justice.
If SJR 7 advocates get their way with this resolution, then politicians, not church officials, will have all authority in the matter of “marriage,” and a new crop of politicians may someday declare that marriage can be only between a man and a goat.
I say we should get the state out of marriage entirely. Take from Caesar what is God’s.

You might find this interesting. your comments on that subject caught my eye as I have recently been reading humanum genus by Pope Leo XIII, which is one of the many Papal encyclicals on freemasonry. He addresses that very issue of state control over the marriage contract. this is from April 1884. So the basis for no state involvement in marriage is indeed compatible with a Christian , (in this case Catholic Christian,) view :

21. What refers to domestic life in the teaching of the naturalists is almost all contained in the following declarations: that marriage belongs to the genus of commercial contracts, which can rightly be revoked by the will of those who made them, and that the civil rulers of the State have power over the matrimonial bond; that in the education of youth nothing is to be taught in the matter of religion as of certain and fixed opinion; and each one must be left at liberty to follow, when he comes of age, whatever he may prefer. To these things the Freemasons fully assent; and not only assent, but have long endeavored to make them into a law and institution. For in many countries, and those nominally Catholic, it is enacted that no marriages shall be considered lawful except those contracted by the civil rite; in other places the law permits divorce; and in others every effort is used to make it lawful as soon as may be. Thus, the time is quickly coming when marriages will be turned into another kind of contract—that is into changeable and uncertain unions which fancy may join together, and which the same when changed may disunite. With the greatest unanimity the sect of the Freemasons also endeavors to take to itself the education of youth. They think that they can easily mold to their opinions that soft and pliant age, and bend it whither they will; and that nothing can be more fitted than this to enable them to bring up the youth of the State after their own plan. Therefore, in the education and instruction of children they allow no share, either of teaching or of discipline, to the ministers of the Church; and in many places they have procured that the education of youth shall be exclusively in the hands of laymen, and that nothing which treats of the most important and most holy duties of men to God shall be introduced into the instructions on morals.

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2008-03-13 13:51:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: All, robin, burkeman1 (#11)
you might find #11 interesting
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2008-03-13 13:53:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Peppa (#0)
The problem as I see it with the 'libertarian' label in the mainstream media is that for the past several years, people have referred to pro-abort open border republican types as libertarians,. whenever you have for example a clearchannel host, theyre for more wars, lower taxes, less regulation but always chime in and attach the manta 'i am fiscally conservative, but socially liberal'. They referred to schwarzenegger as libertarian! (I have yet to understand how abortion is 'social').

i have heard so many big govt socialist statist authoritarian warmonger republicans call themselves libertarians (larry elder is another one) that it has lost it's meaning. Paul has brought understanding to its true meaning, to the national stage.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2008-03-13 14:02:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Artisan (#13)
The problem as I see it with the 'libertarian' label in the mainstream media is that for the past several years, people have referred to pro-abort open border republican types as libertarians,. whenever you have for example a clearchannel host, theyre for more wars, lower taxes, less regulation but always chime in and attach the manta 'i am fiscally conservative, but socially liberal'.

You describe the problem with L's or l's more clearly than any I've read. I can't understand what, as a party, they really want. While a platform may be finally agreed upon, I've not read too many that will stand with the party UNLESS all of their demands are met. Therefore, the party can not progress without the votes from their own base. Thats where starting a new 3rd party is going to require some self-examination. Right now, it still appears to be an exercise in herding cats.
i have heard so many big govt socialist statist authoritarian warmonger republicans call themselves libertarians (larry elder is another one) that it has lost it's meaning. Paul has brought understanding to its true meaning, to the national stage.
All labels have been perverted, and the lines blurred as not to set off alarms.
Paul has brought understanding to its true meaning, to the national stage.
Agreed, though some can not get past the letter behind his name, despite his record, books, speeches, and living by his own principles.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa posted on 2008-03-13 15:22:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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