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Title: Warren Jeffs, Polygamist in Prison
Source: [None]
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Published: Apr 22, 2008
Author: Wikipedia
Post Date: 2008-04-22 06:32:58 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 563
Comments: 46

Warren Steed Jeffs (born December 3, 1955, in San Francisco, California) was the leader of a controversial Mormon fundamentalist polygamist sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS Church) from 2002 to 2007.[3] Jeffs' position in this organization was reportedly that of absolute ruler.

Jeffs gained international notoriety in May 2006 when he was placed on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution on Utah state charges related to his alleged arrangement of extralegal marriages between his adult male followers and underage girls. He was arrested in August 2006 in Nevada, and agreed to be taken to Utah for trial. In May and July of 2007 the State of Arizona charged him with eight additional counts—including sexual conduct with minors and incest—in two separate cases.[4] His trial, which began early in September of 2007 in St. George, Utah, lasted less than a month, and on September 25 the verdict was read declaring him guilty of two counts of rape as an accomplice.[5] On November 20, 2007 he was sentenced to imprisonment for 10 years to life and has begun serving his sentence at the Utah State Prison.[6]

Jeffs resigned from the presidency of the FLDS Church on the day he was sentenced.[7] There are also reports that Jeffs admitted his position of prophet in the FLDS church was false in a conversation to William E. Jessop, and declared that "Brother William E. Jessop has been the prophet since [my] Father's passing" in a conversation to his brother Nephi Jeffs, though Jeffs' attorneys have claimed he misspoke.[8]

Jeffs is the son of Rulon T. Jeffs. His father, the leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints at his death, was survived by 19 or 20 wives and about 60 children[9].

Warren Jeffs' official title in the FLDS Church was "President and Prophet, Seer and Revelator". He also held the title of "President of the Priesthood". Jeffs was a counselor to his father Rulon Jeffs when the elder Jeffs held these leadership positions; upon the death of Rulon Jeffs in 2002, Warren Jeffs succeeded him and became FLDS Church leader.[10] One of Jeffs' statements after his father's death was directed at high-ranking officials in the church: "I won't say much, but I will say this—hands off my father's wives." Then addressing the recent widows, he said, "You women will live as if father is still alive and in the next room." Within a week, Warren had married all but two of his father's several dozen wives.[11] After this, he continued to marry more women, many of whom were close relatives. Because of his claimed descent from Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith, Jeffs has taught that his marriages are necessary to preserve sacred bloodlines.[citation needed]

Jeffs, the sole individual in the church who could perform marriages, was responsible for assigning wives to husbands. Jeffs also had the ability to punish men by "reassigning their wives, children and homes to another man."[12] Moreover, the FLDS Church owns essentially all of the homes and real estate in the areas where its members reside.

In 2000, the Colorado City Unified School District had more than 1200 students enrolled. When Jeffs ordered FLDS Church members to remove their children from public schools, the enrollment decreased to around 250. He did not order the FLDS Church members who made up the majority of the school district's administrators to quit their positions.[13]

Until courts in Utah intervened, Jeffs controlled almost all of the land in Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, which was part of a church trust, the United Effort Plan (UEP). The land has been estimated to be worth over $100 million. Currently, all UEP assets are in the custody of the Utah court system pending further litigation. In January 2004, Jeffs expelled a group of 20 men from Colorado City, including the mayor, and reassigned their wives and children to other men. Jeffs teaches that a man has to have at least three wives in order to get into heaven, and the more wives a man has, the closer he is to heaven.[14] Former church members claim that Jeffs himself has seventy wives (Egan, 2005).

Before his 2006 arrest, Jeffs had last been seen on January 1, 2005, near Eldorado, Texas, at the dedication ceremony of the foundation of a large and elaborate new FLDS temple on an area of land called the YFZ Ranch. The ranch, which Jeffs' church reportedly planned to designate as its new home base,[citation needed] came into the public eye when Texas authorities took legal custody of 416 children on April 7, 2008 when a 16-year-old girl called and reported abuse. She said she was married to a 50-year-old man and had given birth to his child at age 15. Currently the girl who made the call has not been discovered, and it is unclear whether the calls were a hoax perpetrated by a disgruntled church member or some other individual, or a church member who is as yet unaccounted for. [15]

On June 10, 2006, Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard told the Deseret Morning News that he had heard from several sources that Jeffs had returned to Arizona, and had performed marriage ceremonies in a mobile home that was being used as a wedding chapel.[16]

On March 27, 2007, the Deseret Morning News reported that Jeffs had renounced his role as prophet of the FLDS Church in a conversation with his brother Nephi. Nephi quoted him as saying he was "the greatest of all sinners" and that God never called him to be Prophet. This statement was reportedly given to his brother Nephi and Jeffs and his defense team had no comment on it. Some[who?] suggested it was a lie from his brother Nephi, trying to assume his brother's role, while others[who?] said he must step down as prophet so a new man may perform marriages and continue adding wives to the men of the community. An unnamed source said that he retracted this statement.[17] However the veracity of that source was called into question when Jeffs presented a handwritten note to the judge at the end of trial on March 27 saying that he was not a prophet of the FLDS Church.[18]

On November 7, 2007, the Washington County Attorney's Office released video of jailhouse conversations between Nephi and Warren Jeffs. In the videos Warren renounces his prophethood, claiming that God had told him that if he revealed that he was not the rightful prophet, and was a "wicked man", he would still gain a place in the telestial kingdom.[19] Jeffs also admits to what he calls, "immoral actions with a sister and a daughter" when he was 20 years old.[20] Other records show that while incarcerated, Jeffs tried to commit suicide by banging his head against the walls and trying to hang himself.[21]

Jeffs resigned as president of the FLDS Church effective November 20, 2007. In an email to the Deseret Morning News, Jeffs' attorneys made the following statements: "Mr. Jeffs has asked that the following statement be released to the media and to members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints," ... "Mr. Jeffs resigned as President of the Corporation of the President of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Inc." The statement does not address his ecclesiastical position as prophet of the FLDS Church, and many in the FLDS communities still regard him as the prophet and their current leader."[7]

In 2005, the Southern Poverty Law Center published the following statements of Jeffs:

* "The black race is the people through which the devil has always been able to bring evil unto the earth." * "[Cain was] cursed with a black skin and he is the father of the Negro people. He has great power, can appear and disappear. He is used by the devil, as a mortal man, to do great evils." * "Today you can see a black man with a white woman, et cetera. A great evil has happened on this land because the devil knows that if all the people have Negro blood, there will be nobody worthy to have the priesthood." * "If you marry a person who has connections with a Negro, you would become cursed."[22]

Sex crime allegations and FBI's Most WantedIn July 2004, Warren Jeffs' nephew, Brent Jeffs, filed a lawsuit against him alleging that in the late 1980s his uncle sodomized him in the Salt Lake Valley compound then owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). Brent Jeffs said he was five or six years old at the time, and that Warren Jeffs' brothers, also named in the lawsuit, watched and participated in the abuse. Two of Warren Jeffs' other nephews also made similar abuse claims against him. One of the alleged victims, Clayne Jeffs, committed suicide with a firearm after accusing Warren Jeffs of sexually assaulting him as a child.[23]

In June 2005, Jeffs was charged with sexual assault on a minor and with conspiracy to commit sexual misconduct with a minor for allegedly arranging, in 2002, a marriage between a 14-year-old girl and a 19-year-old man who was already married. The girl, known as "Jane Doe IV" (Elissa Wall)[24] testified that she begged "Uncle Rulon" to let her wait until she was older, or choose another man for her. Rulon Jeffs was apparently "sympathetic", but Warren Jeffs was not, and she was forced to go through with the marriage. The man that she was to marry was apparently her first cousin. The 14-year-old alleged that her new husband raped her repeatedly, starting on their wedding night. She eventually left her husband and is now married to another man.[25] Jeffs faced the above charges in Mohave County, Arizona. In July 2005, the Arizona Attorney General's office distributed wanted posters offering $10,000 for information leading to Jeffs' arrest and conviction.

In late 2005, Jeffs was put on the FBI's most wanted fugitive list, offering $60,000 for information leading to his arrest. Shortly after being placed on the FBI list, Jeffs was featured on the television program America's Most Wanted.

Around this time, Warren Jeffs' brother, Seth, was arrested under suspicion of harboring a fugitive. During a routine traffic stop on October 28, 2005, in Pueblo County, Colorado, police found nearly $142,000 in cash, about $7,000 worth of prepaid debit cards, and Warren Jeffs' personal records. During Seth Jeffs' court case, FBI agent Andrew Stearns testified Jeffs had told him that he did not know where his older brother was and that he would not reveal his whereabouts if he did. He was convicted of harboring a fugitive on May 1, 2006.[26] On July 14, 2006, he was sentenced to three years' probation and a $2500 fine.[27]

On April 5, 2006, the state of Utah issued an arrest warrant for Jeffs on felony charges of accomplice rape of a teenage girl between 14 and 18 years old.[28] Shortly after, on May 6, 2006 the FBI placed Jeffs on its Top Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list.[29] He was the the 482nd fugitive listed on that list. In addition, the bounty on his head was raised to $100,000, and the public was warned that "Jeffs may travel with a number of loyal and armed bodyguards".[30]

The updated posters warned that Jeffs had ties to Utah, Arizona, Texas, Colorado, South Dakota, British Columbia, Canada, and Quintana Roo, Mexico. There was also information that he had ties to some rural farms run by some of his followers near Pioche, Nevada, as well as construction companies in Mesquite, Nevada.[31]

On May 27, 2006 Bruce Wisan, the court-appointed accountant in charge of the FLDS' trust fund, filed civil suits against Jeffs. Wisan claimed that Jeffs is responsible for "fleecing trust assets". Along with church leaders, former trustees Truman Barlow, Leroy Jeffs, James Zitting, and William Jessop were also named as defendants. "We feel that they’ve taken things from the trust," Wisan said. "Their actions have caused harm to the trust."[32]

On June 8, 2006 Jeffs returned to Colorado City to perform more "child bride" marriages. Nearby citizens pointed out a mobile home where the weddings had allegedly taken place.[33]

On August 28, 2006 around 9 p.m. Pacific time, Jeffs was pulled over on Interstate 15 in Clark County, Nevada, by Nevada Highway Trooper Eddie Dutchover because Jeffs' red 2007 Cadillac Escalade's temporary license plates were not visible. One of Jeffs' wives, Naomi, and his brother, Issac, were with him, and Jeffs had four computers, 16 cell phones, disguises (including three wigs and twelve pairs of sunglasses), and more than $55,000 in cash.[34][35]

In a Nevada court hearing on August 31, 2006 Jeffs waived extradition and agreed to return to Utah[36] to face two first-degree felony charges of accomplice rape.[28] Each charge carries an indeterminate penalty of five years to life in prison. Arizona prosecutors are next in line to try Jeffs. He was held in the Washington County, Utah, jail pending an April 23, 2007, trial on two counts of rape as an accomplice for his role in arranging a 2002 marriage between a 14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin.[37]

Jeffs was believed to be leading his group from jail, and a Utah state board expressed dissatisfaction in dealing with Hildale police, believing that many had ties to Jeffs, and as such, did not cooperate.[38] In May and July of 2007, he was indicted in Arizona on eight counts, including sexual conduct with a minor and incest.[39]

Jeffs' trial ran from September 11 to September 25, 2007. The trial was held in St. George, Utah, with judge James L. Shumate presiding. Jeffs was housed in Utah's Purgatory Correctional Facility in solitary confinement for the duration. At the culmination of the trial, Jeffs was found guilty of two counts of being an accomplice to rape[40] on September 25, 2007. He was sentenced to imprisonment for 10 years to life and has begun serving his sentence at the Utah State Prison.[6]

Jeffs is now scheduled to be tried in Arizona.[41] Jeffs entered a not guilty plea February 27, 2008, to sex charges stemming from the arranged marriages of three teenage girls to older men.[42]

In 2003, Under the Banner of Heaven was published, a book written by Jon Krakauer, documenting his perspective of some of the history of both the LDS church and its spin-off sects, focusing largely on the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The book describes illegal activity in the (Fundamentalist) Church, mainly polygyny and statutory rape.

In 2006, Tom Elliott and Pawel Gula produced the documentary feature "Damned to Heaven". The film premiered in Europe at the Krakow Film Festival in Poland. In September 2007, it premiered in the U.S. at the Temecula Valley International Film Festival, where it received honors in the Best Documentary category. The film investigates the practice of plural marriage, and includes 20 minutes of Warren Jeffs' original teachings,recorded for the purpose of "educating" followers. Janusz Kaminski said, after seeing the documentary, "This film is shocking. As a society, we are obligated to see it."[43]

The documentary film "Banking on Heaven" was released in 2006. It documents Warren Jeffs and the FLDS in Colorado City, Arizona.

On July 19, 2006 Britain's Channel 4 ran the documentary "The Man with 80 Wives." The program featured presenter Sanjiv Bhattacharya searching for Warren Jeffs, unsuccessfully, in Colorado, Utah and Texas. Filmed before Jeffs was put on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list, the documentary features interviews with one of Jeffs' brothers as well as with several excommunicated FLDS members.

In Canada on October 23, 2006 Global ran an hour-long documentary on "Global Currents", which followed the lives of excommunicated members and featured their hardships.

In 2007, Living Hope Ministries released a documentary entitled Lifting the Veil of Polygamy which includes interviews with former members of Warren Jeffs' fundamentalist sect.[44]

In September 2007, the Australian current affairs program A Current Affair sent reporter Amanda Patterson to Utah on a number of occasions to report on the sect. While filming in Colorado City, her crew was persistently harassed and stalked by a number of local men in their pickup trucks. She also attempted to interview a number of men, who saw nothing wrong with what they were doing, and with women, who refused to talk on air.

In Canada in 2007, CBC's news show The Fifth Estate aired an episode called "Bust Up in Bountiful" focusing on Jeffs's one-time rival, Winston Blackmore, and Blackmore's belief that Jeffs was not only responsible for the split in Bountiful, British Columbia's community, but is also a dangerous man.

Escape by Carolyn Jessop is a personal account of the deterioration of human rights (especially women's and children's rights) and institutionalized abuse in the FLDS organization under Warren Jeffs' leadership.

On January 23, 2007 CTV aired a made-for-TV movie titled "In God's Country"[45] which tells a fictionalized tale that alludes to FLDS and their behaviors and beliefs.

In 2007, the television show Law & Order:SVU ran an episode featuring a cult leader who claimed to be a descendant of Jesus Christ. This character was wanted for abuse of a minor, polygamy, and performing child marriages. Though the end of the episode does not mirror the manner in which Warren Jeffs was captured, the character in the show was clearly based on Jeffs.

The HBO show "Big Love" contains a scene where the leader of a fictional fundamental and polygynist sect observes Warren Jeffs being arrested. He refers to him as a pervert and worries that he will ruin things for other polygamist sects.

The Season 3, Episode 12 "Nine Wives" of Numb3rs was based on the FLDS Church. The episode follows the FBI's search for a pedophilic polygamist fugitive.

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#1. To: All (#0)

Those here supporting these people know nothing about them, or perhaps, they know about them and agree with them?

Turtle  posted on  2008-04-22   6:34:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Turtle (#1)

Those here supporting these people know nothing about them, or perhaps, they know about them and agree with them?

Perhaps it's not about them at all and more about the rule of law.

I don't think anyone here condones unlawful behavior on the part of the FLDS folks or the authorities. Some here seem so emotional over the charges that they ignore governmental abuses.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   6:44:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: noone222 (#2)

Perhaps it's not about them at all and more about the rule of law.

That would not explain the posts talking about how marrying in the early teens used to be

legal,arranged marriages used to be legal, nothing wrong with marrying cousins

etc., etc. Those things are now against the law. While the defenders of the law have repeatedly

been portrayed as abusive government thugs.

Then there is the attitude of lets throw the children back into the cult or they might be after me next.

That has a certain whiff of cowardice don't you think?

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   8:31:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Turtle (#0)

Keep posting turtle. they need to see this cults history.

They talk about the end times around here every time there is a rattle in the middle east or

an unusual earth quake. Now we have a Prophet, claiming to be a blood descendent of

Jesus Christ, and sanctioning child rape. Aren't the end time folks suppose to defend against false

false prophets? I am just stunned, I tell you stunned.

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   8:43:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: castletrash (#3)

That would not explain the posts talking about how marrying in the early teens used to be

legal,arranged marriages used to be legal, nothing wrong with marrying cousins

etc., etc. Those things are now against the law. While the defenders of the law have repeatedly

been portrayed as abusive government thugs.

Then there is the attitude of lets throw the children back into the cult or they might be after me next.

That has a certain whiff of cowardice don't you think?

None of the above comments has anything to do with me or the facts of this particular case even though I believe that laws are often enforced selectively and American law regarding marriage are somewhat Quakerish and may even violate the separation of church and state so conveniently claimed by anti-biblical forces.

My experience tells me that those people are living a more godly life than 99% of our society, and just maybe the screamers here realize this too but prefer what American society in general has compared to what these people have chosen.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   8:46:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: noone222 (#5)

The support for this group is partly explained by the fact that it is rare to see white girls acting as mass incubators and this is pleasing to the "traditional Americans" who are tired of watching other groups outbreed the TRUE tribe which is God-ordained to run this country. < /partial sarcasm>

It is also satisfying to anyone upset with the feminist movement to see men regain their true places of leadership a la what the Muslim world has always practiced.

I've always seen a lot of similarities between Mormons and Muslims.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-22   8:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Sam Houston (#6)

I've always seen a lot of similarities between Mormons and Muslims.

Well a least were dying to give Iraqi women some freedom of choice in their lives.

So long as we have our priorities straight all is right with the world,

huh boys? ( partially sarcastic)

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   9:01:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: castletrash (#7)

Actually, if that was the design, it backfired.

As you probably know, the Iraqi women had more rights under Saddam than they do right now.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-22   9:08:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: noone222 (#5)

My experience tells me that those people are living a more godly life than 99% of our society

Who's God? They think their Prophets are blood descendants of Christ? It Church Doctrine

in the FDLS to "bleed the Beast", i.e. take as much money as possible from non believers.

The believe in "blood atonement" for sins, the Prophet is judge and jury. do a little research.

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   9:10:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Sam Houston (#8)

if that was the design, it backfired.

Well they hate us for our freedumb, as per W, so I thought the strategery was to

give them some? ; )

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   9:13:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: castletrash (#9)

It Church Doctrine

in the FDLS to "bleed the Beast", i.e. take as much money as possible from non believers.

They sound Jewish !

Church doctrine or innuendo ... whatever the case, the relevant factors to me are proper investigative measures and legitimate warrants based upon facts rather than disdain, curiosity and emotion.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   9:16:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: castletrash (#7)

Well a least were dying to give Iraqi women some freedom of choice in their lives.

Your punctuation is atrocious. Is that because your edumacation is limited or are you simply retarded ?

Responding to the above ... hopefully your next.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   9:19:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: noone222 (#11)

They sound Jewish !

Talk about changing the topic!

Law enforcement thugs scare you, Joooos scare you, and you would understand a relative factor if

it gave you a lap dance! LOL LOL LOL

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   9:21:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: noone222 (#12)

Your punctuation is atrocious. Is that because your edumacation is limited or are you simply retarded ?

I am college educated but:

I have leukemia

I have Primary pulmonary hypertension

I have diabetes, high blood pressure

I am hospital bed bound and on high use oxygen 24/7

I have lasted 3 ys past my expected life span, so thanks for asking

I have shaky hands and type like a crazed animal, but I truely believe limited as I am, I

am a better human than U.

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   9:29:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: castletrash (#13)

[Castletrash said:] It Church Doctrine in the FDLS to "bleed the Beast", i.e. take as much money as possible from non believers.

[noone222 said:] They sound Jewish

How's that changing the subject ?

Out of control automatic weapon bearing morons (thugs) with an I.Q. under 90 should frighten everyone.

My concern related to Jews is a response to their untoward behavior.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   9:38:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: noone222 (#15)

the sky is falling, the sky is falling

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   9:39:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: castletrash (#14)

I have leukemia

I have Primary pulmonary hypertension

I have diabetes, high blood pressure

I am hospital bed bound and on high use oxygen 24/7

I have lasted 3 ys past my expected life span, so thanks for asking

What was your expected life span ?

Truthfully, I'd prefer death to your life regardless of how good U are.

I have none of the above disabilities ... a hangover once in awhile though.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   9:42:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: noone222 (#17)

Truthfully, I'd prefer death to your life

Then It would appear I am a better man than you are also, and my name is Theresa

average life span with primary hypertension ,without other complications is 2.5 year,

I am told I am the only one in the US with both PPH and CML.

And you wouldn't know it to speak with me, i'm scrappy : )

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   9:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: castletrash (#18)

My last remarks were callous and cold ... I'm sorry that your conditions are such as you say.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   10:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Turtle (#0)

well this Warren Jeffs fellow does seem unsavory. and I think many people in the community we've heard from say that a lot of the problems that attracted outside attention to the FLDS started when Jeffs took over. They had a rule that women younger than 22 couldn't marry, then they changed it to 20, then to 18, then to younger. and it was Jeffs who was lowering the age.

Its pretty rotten of Jeffs to excommunicate people when the property that people have has been given over to the FLDS. thats kind of like treating people like garbage. and then re-assigning people's wives is also very abusive towards people.

Now the government has re-assigned all the children from Eldorado to someone else. The people of FLDS tolerated treatment like this by Jeffs to their own people, and now a bigger power has done the same to them.

While I can see the poetic justice in the situation I still recognize that the government is the bigger bully and the bully that we should watch out for. There is much injustice in taking 416 children from their parents like this.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2008-04-22   10:07:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Sam Houston (#6)

People often determine that their personal opinion trumps personal experience. Given the choice to live amongst these people or the trash that waddles their fat asses through the mall, I'd readily choose the former.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   10:08:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Red Jones (#20)

well this Warren Jeffs fellow does seem unsavory.

I think most of the mainstream church leaders are unsavory if not psychopathic.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   10:11:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: noone222 (#22)

Given the choice to live amongst these people or the trash that waddles their fat asses through the mall, I'd readily choose the former.

I think most of the mainstream church leaders are unsavory if not psychopathic.

I cannot reconcile these two statements. Its like trying to grab jello.

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   10:18:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: castletrash, noone222 (#4)

Jeffs gained international notoriety in May 2006 when he was placed on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution on Utah state charges related to his alleged arrangement of extralegal marriages between his adult male followers and underage girls. He was arrested in August 2006 in Nevada, and agreed to be taken to Utah for trial. In May and July of 2007 the State of Arizona charged him with eight additional counts—including sexual conduct with minors and incest—in two separate cases.[4] His trial, which began early in September of 2007 in St. George, Utah, lasted less than a month, and on September 25 the verdict was read declaring him guilty of two counts of rape as an accomplice.[5] On November 20, 2007 he was sentenced to imprisonment for 10 years to life and has begun serving his sentence at the Utah State Prison.[6]

well, this puts a new light on the situation. this is a tough one though. these poor children and women are caught between a rock and a hard place.

christine  posted on  2008-04-22   10:25:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Red Jones (#20)

Now the government has re-assigned all the children from Eldorado to someone else. The people of FLDS tolerated treatment like this by Jeffs to their own people, and now a bigger power has done the same to them.

While I can see the poetic justice in the situation I still recognize that the government is the bigger bully and the bully that we should watch out for. There is much injustice in taking 416 children from their parents like this.

agree..especially when we've all heard of the abuses children taken by CPS suffer at the hands of foster families and then used and abused by "authorities."

christine  posted on  2008-04-22   10:29:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Turtle (#0)

I have no idea what laws were or weren't violated in this case. And, to date, neither do the authorities. So, if we believe in innocent until proven guilty (I know, a silly concept given our jails are filled with non-convicted people) this investigation is total government overkill. Why the need for armored, Waco-like vehicles and goof balls w/automatic weapons? Total government intimidation.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-22   10:34:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Turtle (#1)

I couldn't care less if they were merely polygamists and adhered to the age of consent and free will but they don't have much of a leg to stand on once they decided that the "world" was something to eshew except for all it's welfare bennies and cushy government jobs. That's one of the biggest problems any eccentric pseudo freedom lovers have, they want the goodies but rail against the control. I got news for 'em, with one COMES the other!

As for rounding up everybody, well, that was bullshit. One thing they have going for them now though is that it looks as if the government goobers royaly screwed up their procedural crap and they'll probably end up winning all the legal wranglings and come out the other side merely poor and psycologically scarred...

Government blows and that which governs least blows least...

Axenolith  posted on  2008-04-22   10:50:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: noone222 (#5) (Edited)

My experience tells me that those people are living a more godly life than 99% of our society, and just maybe the screamers here realize this too but prefer what American society in general has compared to what these people have chosen.

Like I pointed out to Turtle, they get all sorts of welfare bennies. They are participating in the world they claim to loath and are now bitching about it interfering with them. You dance with the devil, etc...

Government blows and that which governs least blows least...

Axenolith  posted on  2008-04-22   10:53:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Red Jones (#20)

There is much injustice in taking 416 children from their parents like this.

There is much injustice in keeping 416 children with parents like this.

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   10:58:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: castletrash (#14)

I have leukemia

I have Primary pulmonary hypertension

I have diabetes, high blood pressure

I am hospital bed bound and on high use oxygen 24/7

I have lasted 3 ys past my expected life span...

DAY'UM CT, you are well and truly F***ed! What's the prognosis on that? If you kick ass on the leukemia and diabetes will the other issues ameliorate? You in line for any replacement parts?

Here's hoping you see the light of healing regardless of any bickering we may do or have done!

Government blows and that which governs least blows least...

Axenolith  posted on  2008-04-22   11:01:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Axenolith (#28)

Like I pointed out to Turtle, they get all sorts of welfare bennies. They are participating in the world they claim to loath and are now bitching about it interfering with them. You dance with the devil, etc...

I had said earlier that I heard they were getting welfare benefits as only one wife would be legally married and the others welfare recipients. I do not know this to be true, but stated that if true they have no argument with the authorities.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   11:58:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: castletrash (#23)

Given the choice to live amongst these people or the trash that waddles their fat asses through the mall, I'd readily choose the former. I think most of the mainstream church leaders are unsavory if not psychopathic.

I cannot reconcile these two statements. Its like trying to grab jello.

Having had the opportunity to view these women on the internet news sites and on Larry King live via the youtube website I could see that they were modestly attired, well groomed, well spoken, though saddened by the recent events, courteous, love their children, wore no make-up, had no piercings, and none of them appeared over weight ... like about 90% of the obese Wal-Mart Shoppers.

The never ending reports of hypocrisy among church leaders such as Jimmy Swaggert, Jim and Tammy Baker, Ted Haggard, Kenneth Copeland, John Haggee, Benny Hinn etc., all liars and some perverted beyond belief.

Grab some Jello.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   12:16:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: christine (#24)

The never ending reports of hypocrisy among church leaders such as Jimmy Swaggert, Jim and Tammy Baker, Ted Haggard, Kenneth Copeland, John Haggee, Benny Hinn etc., all liars and some perverted beyond belief.

The never ending reports of hypocrisy among church leaders such as Jimmy Swaggert, Jim and Tammy Baker, Ted Haggard, Kenneth Copeland, John Haggee, Benny Hinn etc., will never end because they are psychopaths, power freaks and liars besides being perverted beyond belief.

I don't think it necessarily reaches through them to their flocks in every instance. These people shouldn't be tried for the pastors sin, nor should they be held against their will by the church or the state.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   12:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: noone222 (#33)

I don't think it necessarily reaches through them to their flocks in every instance. These people shouldn't be tried for the pastors sin, nor should they be held against their will by the church or the state.

i agree. that's the greater sin in my mind.

christine  posted on  2008-04-22   12:25:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: christine (#34)

If the men were violating the law or abusing anyone there they should be "properly" investigated and charged according to the law.

As far as the polygamy charges are concerned, what's the difference when a married person fools around with others of the opposite sex (adultery). There was a time when the State prosecuted adultery criminally, but those days are gone. If these people are both aware of the multiple partner situation while in most adulterous affairs the parties aren't aware, who has committed the greater harm ?

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   12:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: christine (#34)

I just received this in an e-mail related to media bias ... which I think very much applies to the FLDS situation.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-22   12:42:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: christine (#34)

the greater sin in my mind.

Holding the children in foster care while they investigate is normal procedure.

The state is having trouble even establishing parentage. Most kids know their full names,

and most parents would be there waving documentation, and doing anything to get their

children back. There is something wrong, seriously wrong here. Persons ,who have escaped,

speak of the horrors in that cult. THe danger is in looking the other way. Evil thrives when

good men do nothing.

castletrash  posted on  2008-04-22   12:50:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Axenolith (#27)

the "world" was something to eshew except for all it's welfare bennies and cushy government jobs.

The women are not legally married, so all of them are eligible for welfare.

Just imagine....one man, 27 wives, screwing several 14-year-old girls, 30 kids, all on welfare, never having to work a day in your life, living in a mansion, terrorizing everyone that if they don't grovel and kiss your ass 24/7 they truly believe they'll go to Hell...that's not Christianity, it's Satanism.

Turtle  posted on  2008-04-22   19:55:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Axenolith (#28)

Like I pointed out to Turtle, they get all sorts of welfare bennies.

Are you sure about this? I'm not saying it's not true, but from what I heard, they support themselves by tithing church members who arn't holy enough to live on the ranch and have to work. Apparently that's how you get selected to live on the ranch, you give enough for long enough and you eventually get holy enough to live there.

It's still sort of a welfare system, but it only sucks other church members dry.

But they might get welfare too. Have you seen a definitive statement on this?

.

...  posted on  2008-04-22   20:43:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Turtle (#38)

Just imagine....one man, 27 wives, screwing several 14-year-old girls, 30 kids, all on welfare, never having to work a day in your life, living in a mansion, terrorizing everyone that if they don't grovel and kiss your ass 24/7 they truly believe they'll go to Hell

Hearing about that through 5th+ hand accounts and the state actually proving it in court is going to be two hugely separate deals...

Government blows and that which governs least blows least...

Axenolith  posted on  2008-04-23   11:15:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: ... (#39)

There was actually some discussion of this on something like 60 Minutes a while back. Between that, and the churches commentary on "bleeding the beast", I'm pretty confident it's occuring.

Now, the rightness of a policy of taking everything you can from what is obviously a corrupt statist scam is another discussion alltogether...

Government blows and that which governs least blows least...

Axenolith  posted on  2008-04-23   11:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: castletrash (#37)

Holding the children in foster care while they investigate is normal procedure.

How long have you been here since leaving Russia, Ms. Bizzy Body Buttinsky ?

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-23   21:15:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: noone222 Axenolith turtle (#31)

" had said earlier that I heard they were getting welfare benefits as only one wife would be legally married and the others welfare recipients. I do not know this to be true, but stated that if true they have no argument with the authorities."

Colorado City and Hildale were on a list of the top ten towns with a population over 2,000 in the Intermountain West for reliance upon Medicaid (health care for the poor) in 1998. And in that same year the same towns draw from the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) program (food for low-income mothers) could only be equaled by Western Indian reservations and impoverished inner cities. 33% of Hildale and Colorado City residents were using food stamps in 1998. To put this into perspective, respectively Arizona's average was 6.7% and Utah's 4.7% during that same period.

www.rickross.com/reference/p olygamy/polygamy5.html

noone222, I was born in the USA, now 5 generations 100+ yrs , past though Ellis, Black Hand

castletrash  posted on  2008-05-02   23:30:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: castletrash (#43)

in the early 80s when my wife will still just a case worker for AZ DES she would have to go to Colorado City a couple times a year. She said it was spooky and that nobody except the husband would talk to her and that people on the street avoided her. But she said they tried to scam the welfare system big time but you waited until you were out of the area before starting an investigation. She said it was like walking thru the gates of hell going there.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-05-02   23:40:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#44)

She said it was like walking thru the gates of hell going there.

Sing it loud, flds have many defenders here

When I read this: bush_is_a_moonie

I see this : bush kisses moon : )

castletrash  posted on  2008-05-02   23:47:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: castletrash (#45)

The author has received a warning. The FBI is now involved.

What some of the people have been forced to endure in Colorado City is little different from living in a third world country.

Ten-year-old Benjamin Bistline moved with his parents to Short Creek (Colorado City), Arizona, in 1945 to join with a group of excommunicated Mormons who believed in honoring the law of polygamy as revealed by the Prophet Joseph Smith and instituted by Brigham Young.

Mr. Bistline has compiled A DETAILED HISTORY of the significant events that shaped and sustained this community from the beginning. He tells of the shifts in power, changes in leadership philosophies, persecution from outside forces – and from within.

Mr. Bistline’s goal in writing this history is to reveal that the original leadership structure of a Council of men holding common and balancing power has slowly descended into a ONE-MAN TYRANNICAL RULE over the people.

Bistline has observed: 1) Older men being taught to take CHILD BRIDES before the girls are attracted to boys their own age. 2) BOYS DRIVEN OUT of the community for competing with older men for wives. 3) Plural wives expected to apply for WELFARE as single mothers. 4) Men out of favor are "EVICTED" from their homes with their wives and children reassigned to a more compliant man. 5) Community members AFRAID TO DISOBEY the "Prophet" out of fear for their eternal salvation.

RESIDENT HISTORIAN Ben Bistline is recognized as the most credible and knowledgeable source of information about Colorado City. He knows more about the people, their motives, their family connections, their religion, their strengths and their weaknesses than any other pundit. Mr. Bistline is contacted by media and the press from all across the country, and has appeared on CNN and Dateline NBC.

As the governments of Utah and Arizona pursue leaders for human rights violations, welfare fraud, extortion, and misappropriation of public funds for schools, etc., it is rumored that prophet Warren Jeffs will escape to Mexico with a small group of followers. The other leaders he excommunicated in early 2004 are positioning to take over, and they too believe in the One Man doctrine. With the upheaval, law enforcement ready for the violence that may occur.

utahbooks.com/polygamists_of_colorado_city.htm

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-05-03   5:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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