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Title: McCain and Obama Face Questions About Their Faith
Source:
ABC News
URL Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=5587367
Published: Aug 15, 2008
Author: RACHEL ZOLL
Post Date: 2008-08-15 19:43:00 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 336
Comments: 19
Facing questions from megachurch pastor, McCain and Obama put their faith in political play The Rev. Rick Warren is so prominent and respected that just being seen with him is a boon for any presidential candidate. For Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama, their appearances at a forum Saturday night at Warren's evangelical California megachurch bring risks along with rewards. The event will play to one of Obama's strengths, talking about his Christian faith, but it will also underscore the gulf between his views and those of the most conservative Christian voters. Many of McCain's positions are more in line with the evangelical worldview, but he is uncomfortable — and some critics say unconvincing — while talking about his personal beliefs. The candidates will appear separately, spending one hour each with Warren, before coming together on stage for a handshake. The pastor, who does not endorse candidates, will be the only one asking questions. Warren is an anti-abortion Southern Baptist who is nonetheless part of a shift away from the religious right's strict focus on abortion and marriage. The environment, poverty and education have also become pressing concerns, especially for younger evangelicals. Warren is best known for building Saddleback Church into a 23,000-member megachurch in Lake Forest, Calif., and for writing the multimillion-selling book "The Purpose-Driven Life." But he and his wife, Kay, are also leading advocates for HIV/AIDS victims worldwide. They have invested enormous resources in their PEACE Plan, now under way in Rwanda, which aims to combat corruption, illiteracy and other social problems through church partnerships with government and business. Older-guard evangelical leaders who oppose broadening the agenda have been leaning on Warren. In a stream of statements in the days leading up to the forum, they implored him to press the candidates about their positions on abortion. Larry Ross, who represents Warren, said the pastor has been consulting with other clergy and with experts in different fields to develop questions for the candidates about leadership, the Constitution, human rights and "sin and righteousness issues." "The more liberal camp just assumes that Pastor Warren is going to make this a Christian litmus test of the presidency. Others, who are more conservative, fear he is going to wimp out on some of the issues," Ross said. "He says, 'Neither group understands or knows me.' He's going to ask tough questions, fair questions, not gotcha questions." Obama has proven adept at explaining how his Christian faith has shaped his policies. The church forum also gives him a perfect setting to counter the misperception that he is Muslim. A recent poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that 12 percent of respondents believe the Illinois senator is Muslim. "It's a great way for him to do what he can to make connections with not only moderate evangelicals, but also the many people out there who read 'The Purpose-Driven Life,'" said Mark Silk, who specializes in religion and public life at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn. However, Obama will inevitably be asked to explain his support for abortion rights and other issues that clash with conservative Christian theology. The Obama campaign has been diligently courting religious voters with a presence on Christian radio and blogs, and through "American Values Forums" and other events. In June, Obama took the bold step of holding a private meeting with a large group of evangelical leaders, including the Rev. Franklin Graham, who challenged him on his beliefs in salvation, his support for abortion rights and other issues. The benefit of the forum to McCain, who attends a Baptist church, is less clear. While many of his views, including opposition to abortion, match the outlook of conservative Christians, he is far less comfortable than Obama discussing his faith. McCain did not participate in a spring forum at Messiah College near Harrisburg, Pa., where Obama and New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton discussed religion and their personal lives. McCain supporters have taken to circulating excerpts from his memoir "Faith of Our Fathers," that explain his beliefs. He recently met privately with Roman Catholic Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver, one of the most vocal U.S. bishops on the duty of Catholics to make the abortion issue a priority in choosing public leaders. Yet, many evangelical leaders have backed him only reluctantly. And he put conservative Christians on edge Thursday by floating the prospect of picking a running mate who supports abortion rights. Conservative Christians comprise about one-quarter of the electorate. "You just wonder, is he trying to shoot himself in the foot?" said David Domke, author of "The God Strategy: How Religion Became a Political Weapon in America." No one expects Obama to lure the most traditional Christian voters from the GOP. Polls consistently show McCain winning frequent churchgoers by large margins. But in a close general election, Obama could win by taking a small percentage of the evangelical vote away from the GOP. "Obama is going to make real inroads for people who want to be satisfied that this is a pretty religious guy but that he's not a lunatic," Silk said. The person with the most at stake may be Warren himself. The impression he makes Saturday will shape his reputation, the public view of his church and his position among evangelicals for a long time to come. "I think Rick is in an unenviable position in that he stands to get attacked from the right and the left, based on what direction he takes," said Mark DeMoss, an evangelical public relations specialist who had supported former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney in the GOP primary. "As an evangelical, I am much more interested in his list of questions than in either of their answers."
Poster Comment: MOTHER OF ALL PURPOSE-DRIVEN DECEPTIONS By Berit Kjos November 28, 2006 NewsWithViews.com "When you write the best-selling book in the world for the last three years, that changes your life.... Ten percent of America's churches have engaged in '40 Days of Purpose' programs, which have 'spread' to secular organizations, including sports teams and major corporations such as Ford, Wal-Mart and Coca-Cola, not to mention the military."[1] Rick Warren "Dear Saddleback Family... This week I shared part of this message in New York City where I spoke at the United Nations, and also to The Council on Foreign Relations." Group email to Saddleback sent by "Pastor Rick [Warren]," 9-17-05. 'As a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you."[2] A recent letter from Rick Warren to Joseph Farah "America's Pastor" Rick Warren rarely misses an opportunity to highlight the sales of his books or the influence of his PEACE Plan. But his latest boast reveals a depth of deception that demands both a sober response and a public warning. And it begs answers to these puzzling questions: First, let's review some recent events. On November 13, Rick Warren met with Syria’s Grand Mufti Sheikh Badr al-Din Hassoun in Damascus. Their dialogue was publicized by the Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) in an article titled, "American Priest (Warren) Says no Peace without Syria:" "Rick Warren on Monday said... that 80 percent of the American people rejected what the US Administration is doing in Iraq and considered the US policy in the Mideast as wrong.... Warren expressed admiration of Syria and the coexistence he saw between Muslims and Christians, stressing that he will convey this image to his church and country."[4] On November 16, WorldNetDaily founder Joseph Farah wrote, "Rick Warren wrote to me this morning to protest this column. He claims he didn't say anything he was actually quoted as saying by the official press in Syria. However, in a video... he says Syria 'does not allow extremism of any kind.' In fact, Syria is, in many ways, the No. 1 sponsor of terrorism in the world.... Here's what the Syrian Arab News Agency reported: '...Pastor Warren hailed the religious coexistence, tolerance and stability that the Syrian society is enjoying due to the wise leadership of President al-Assad....'"[5] Despite contrary evidence, Warren proclaimed what the Syrian President al-Assad apparently told him. But the soon-to-follow assassination of Pierre Gemayel, a Christian anti-Syrian official in the Lebanese government -- therefore a foe to the Syria-backed Hezbollah terrorists -- should shatter those public illusions of tolerant coexistence.[6] Finally, in a startling expose on November 20, Joseph Farah wrote, "I pointed out to Warren that WND had indeed attempted to contact him about his trip. No one from his Saddleback Church ever returned our calls the day the story broke. 'I'm sure since you were warned in advance by the State Department that you took the precaution of recording your own words,' I suggested in my response. 'We look forward to seeing the transcripts.'... "I really didn't expect to hear back from Warren – but, a few minutes later, I did, with an absolutely stunning retort. He let me know he is a close friend of President Bush 'and many, if not most, of the generals at the Pentagon.' He also told me he did not tape anything while in Syria, 'because it was a courtesy call, like I do in every country.' Warren explained that he had also counseled with the National Security Council and the White House, as well as the State Department, before his little courtesy call.... 'In fact, Warren added, 'as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you.'... "Not one to let lies go unchallenged, I wrote back to Warren with a link to the YouTube video: 'If you didn't tape anything, what's this?... It might be that Rick Warren, deep in the bush of Rwanda, never received those last questions, because he never responded – at least not in the last three days. He did, however, within minutes make sure the YouTube video he recorded independent of his meetings with the Syrian brown shirts was removed from the network."[2] 1. So why would the globalist Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) invite a Christian Pastor to join its secretive, anti-Christian organizations? To understand the gravity of this unlikely partnership, let's summarize the history of the CFR. The following excerpts from our article, "Real Conspiracies -- Past and Present," provide a glimpse of the ruling network of masterminds behind the curtains of contemporary governments: Few have done more to expose this global agenda than Bill Clinton's mentor, Carroll Quigley, an influential former history professor at the Foreign Service Schools of Georgetown University. Ponder this revelation from his 1300-page report, Tragedy and Hope: "There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operation of this network because I have studied it for twenty years, and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records.... [I]n general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown...."[7] Quigley's next page describes the birth of The Council of Foreign Relations (CFR). A driving force behind today's global transformation, CFR insiders have helped steer the course of the current shift from U.S. sovereignty to a regional union under the UN (like the European Union) with open borders between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico. He writes, "At the end of the war of 1914 [World War 1], it became clear that the organization of this [secret] system had to be greatly extended.... This front organization, called the Royal Institute of International Affairs, had as its nucleus in each area the existing submerged Round Table Group. In New York it was known as the Council on Foreign Relations, and was a front for J. P. Morgan and Company.... In fact, the original plans for the Royal Institute of International Affairs and The Council of Foreign Relations were drawn up at Paris."[8] Rick Warren's global PEACE Plan fits right into this rising New World Order. As we explained in Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan and UN Goals - Part 2, this Communitarian system is based on partnerships and networks between government (public sector), business (private sector) and churches -- the most useful member of civil society (social sector). But it's never a partnership of equals, since governments wield both financial and standard-setting power. In the global arena, it intends to use the social sector (especially the global network of churches) to meet the needs of its promised welfare system.[9] Rick Warren seems more than happy to be the Pied Piper that ushers churches into the organizational web envisioned by the CFR -- the guiding political force behind the visible global management system.[10] 2. How might Rick Warren benefit the elite Oxford Analytica? He fits right into its agenda! Many of the same power brokers that steer the CFR are also guiding the Oxford Analytica. Its founder, David R. Young, provides this background information: Most of these mighty elites have chosen to live in the shadow of the mainstream media they control. Not so Rick Warren. Yet his global ambitions and magnetic leadership skills would serve them well, and Warren knows it. "Billions of people suffer each day from problems so big no government can solve them," Warren told the cheering crowd at Los Angeles' Angel Stadium back in 2005. "The only thing big enough to solve the problems of spiritual emptiness, selfish leadership, poverty, disease, and ignorance is the network of millions of churches all around the world."[12] 3. Why would Warren lie about his taped, much publicized dialogue with Syrian Muslim leader? Like the CFR and the media it controls, Rick Warren has mastered the dialectic skill of speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He knows how to cloak worldly ambitions in words that resemble Biblical humility. He hides his emphasis on social collectivism behind Biblical words that promise oneness in Christ. And he promotes the Communitarian agenda while acknowledging the Kingdom of God. But balancing such opposites leads to problems. Those who try to please influencers in every camp are likely to prove unreliable and dishonest. And in this case, Warren was obviously trapped by his own purpose-driven propaganda. In Syria he spoke words that would please the Muslim, anti-American leadership. In America, he tried to hide the facts in order to please his American fans. Of course, positive proclamations can't cure the hatreds brewing in Syria. Now that Gemayel's assassination has fueled that fire, the noble sentiments of popular visionaries sound hollow indeed. As Rick Warren's "close friend" President Bush said, Warren's deceptions began years ago, when he first adapted his famous five purposes to a postmodern culture. The outline below shows his Biblical titles (click on the live links to see the Scriptures). But the practical expressions of those Biblical terms have been twisted to accommodate the human preferences indicated by surveys and marketing schemes. 1. Worship: Postmodern worship is designed to stir good feelings and collective zeal. It may echo Biblical words, but points to a positive and permissive God who will cheer our self-centered nature and excuse our unholy ways. It clashes with genuine expressions of Spirit-filled hearts that freely praise God without emotion-raising stimuli. (See Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven) 2. Fellowship: Organized purpose-driven "fellowship" follows dialectical guidelines. Small group members are trained in unbiblical tolerance, feeling-based (not fact-based) "sharing," and hostility toward "offensive" Biblical absolutes. In contrast, Biblical fellowship implies a gathering of genuine believers with a common delight in His Word, His will, and His holy ways. “We’re all in this together,” said Rick Warren at the liberal Baptist World Alliance’s 2005 Congress. Baptists can “celebrate our diversity and celebrate our unity," he continued. "I see absolutely zero reason in separating my fellowship from anybody.[14] 3. Discipleship: Today's purpose-driven leadership calls for submission and loyalty to "the group" and its postmodern social ethics -- not to God and His Word. It demands collective thinking and "service learning." 4. Ministry: The shape and structure of purpose-driven ministries are increasingly defined by new management gurus, personality assessments, community surveys, and group appeal, not by Biblical teaching nor God's actual purposes. 5. Evangelism: Today's soft, non-offensive gospel focuses on God's supposed "passionate love" for people who are naturally lovable, not on His loving mercy for sinners. (See Ephesians 2:1-4) When "Christian" change agents train the masses to "think outside the box" of God's unchanging Word, they blind people to the only truth that can set us free. "...if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:9-10
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Posted December 11, 2006 See also Treason in the Church: Trading Truth for a "Social Gospel" Articles “Our goal has been to put people together who normally won't even speak to each other. We do not expect all participants in the Summit discussion to agree with all of our Evangelical beliefs. However, the HIV/AIDS pandemic cannot be fought by Evangelicals alone. It will take the cooperation of all – government, business, NGOs and the church. That is the purpose of this Summit – to marshal the policy of the government; the finances of business; the expertise of the health organizations; and the compassion, volunteerism and reach of the church in order to care for the sick and save lives.” [Statement by Saddleback Valley Community Church Regarding Senator Barack Obama as One of Nearly 60 Featured Speakers at the Second Annual Global Summit on AIDS and the Church, Contact: Larry Ross.] The above press release “Statement” pertaining to the recent controversial AIDS conference at Saddleback is indicative of the new Social Gospel rapidly gaining prominence in evangelical circles. This Social Gospel is a re-hash of the old mainline denomination Social Gospel of the past century but it includes more partners – e.g., the corporate (business), NGOs, parachurch and mission groups. The new Social Gospel also comes in the slick new package of a global AIDS crisis – and tragically so. The original CFR plan to create a Social Gospel was hatched as part of a massive operation to change public opinion favorably towards world government. The crisis at that time was World War I and its aftermath. Dr. Erdmann notes that as a consequence of the failures of the Versailles Peace Conference after WWI, John Foster Dulles, as one of the chief architects and propagators of this Social Gospel movement, “became convinced that the use of propaganda was essential in shifting public opinion in America from its traditional isolationist stance to a new policy of interdependence.” In the ensuing highly-orchestrated campaign to change public opinion, Dulles and other CFR moguls worked to transform the ideology of the churches. What role does the CFR play in today's new Social Gospel push? What follows are some startling parallels between the public relations campaign for the original Social Gospel movement driven by John Foster Dulles and the current evangelical Social Gospel movement. [Quotations and excerpts are derived from Building the Kingdom of God on Earth, emphases added.] “Dulles outlined the basic concepts of peaceful change and attacked what he regarded to be an unhealthy and obsolete concept of national sovereignty.… Human egotism could only be offset, he asserted, by superseding it with ‘some sentiment more dominant and gripping which would contain it the elements of universality as against particularity.’ No other organization would be as uniquely qualified to accomplish this task as the Church…. Dulles idealized the Christian Church as an exemplary community which had demonstrated the ability to transcend the limitations of the nation state…. (p. 84-85) [Note the similarity to comments made by Rick Warren (http://tinyurl.com/y4q7a8): “Churches constitute the largest distribution center in the world, says Warren. The vast network of churches is the only solution to ‘universal distribution,’ a problem that's plagued global health initiatives.”] Global missions strategies were particularly a way to further world government objectives. At the Oxford Conference on Church, Community and State held in 1937, several prominent members of the Royal Institute of International Affairs (the British side of the CFR) were in attendance. A position paper authored by John Foster Dulles on “The Universal Church and the World of Nations” credited the missionary movement as being a great catalyst for ecumenicity leading to a new world order, particularly through the doctrinal idea of the brotherhood of all mankind. The missionary outreach was also a primary vehicle to creating an international mindset among parishioners. (p. 103-104) “During the 1930s the Federal Council Bulletin urged its audience to propagate the social gospel. It exhorted its readers to reject any notion that there was a basic conflict between the preaching of the gospel as such and the need to make known the Social Creed of the FCC. The Federal Council knew that unless it could secure a deep dedication to the ethical principles of the Gospel, and a deep commitment to the Jesus who was presented as the living embodiment of these ethical ideals, there would be no motivating power for Christians to struggle for the realization of the kingdom of God in the national life. Without adhering to basic Scriptural concepts, therefore, the Council’s social appeals were couched in biblical terminology. Although mentioning the sin problem frequently, it was usually in the context of sins against society rather than sins against God. Regeneration was masterfully redefined as a new social awareness. The substitutionary atonement of Christ upon the cross was deemed insignificant and was rarely if ever mentioned. The Reformation dictum, that humankind can find peace with God only by being justified by faith, was simply ignored as without relevance.” (pp. 154-155) [Compare this ideology to “Religious Leaders Stand Up for Rick Warren, Barack Obama: An open letter to pastors across the country” from evangelical Social Gospel supporters of Rick Warren: “AIDS has claimed the lives of 25 million people since 1981. Forty million people across the globe, including 2 million children, live with this wretched disease. And nearly 7 million people are now in desperate need of life-saving drugs, without which they will die. In the face of this crisis, it boggles our minds and offends our God-given sense of justice that these groups would choose to attack Senator Obama and Reverend Warren – Christians both – for working together to stamp out AIDS.” SICKNESS AND HUMAN MISERY “The underlying premise of the peace settlement is the reality of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of mankind. Principle One proclaims that there was, in fact, a ‘moral law’ that ‘undergirds the world’. According to Principle Two, ‘the sickness and suffering which afflict our present society are proof of indifference to, as well as direct violation of, the moral law.’ Furthermore, ‘all share in responsibility for the present evils. There is none who does not need forgiveness. A mood of genuine penitence is therefore demanded of us – individuals and nations alike.’” (p. 243-244) [Compare this to Kay Warren’s statement in an interview that the church has been “absent”: “We believe the church has been the missing leg of a three-legged stool. Governments are doing things. Private sector businesses are doing things, trying to go after global giants, but the church has been absent. We have been trying to bring the church back to the table and say ‘It’s going to take all three.’ The main reason is that the church has the widest distribution center. The church exists in places where there is nothing else. To utilize the distribution channels for care and compassion and teaching and training. It’s the way to go. It’s smart!”] URGENCY AND ECUMENICITY “(1) The American people need now to be imbued with a righteous faith; (2) In time of war the spiritual task of the churches becomes one of peculiar urgency; (3) The ecumenical (world-wide) character of the Church enables it and its members to make a unique contribution toward world order; (4) Christian motivation supplies an essential prerequisite to effective action; (5) Christians must seek the cooperation of other faiths; (6) the churches do not have primary responsibility to devise the details of world order. But they must proclaim the enduring moral principles by which human plans are constantly to be tested.” (p. 247-248) [Compare this to the current rhetoric of the AIDS crisis, particularly Senator Barack Obama’s comments about his controversial appearance at the Saddleback AIDS conference this past weekend: “Obama declined an interview request. But in a statement, he said while he respects differing views on abortion, he hopes for unity ‘to honor the entirety of Christ's teachings by working to eradicate the scourge of AIDS, poverty and other challenges we all can agree must be met.’ CONCLUSION The Truth: "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven." (Col. 1:20) Part 2: The Emergent Social Gospel CFR and the Social Gospel: Part 2 The Emergent Social Gospel By Discernment Group - http://herescope.blogspot.com Posted December 15, 2006 See also Treason in the Church: Trading Truth for a "Social Gospel" In a recent radio interview posted at www.familylife.com, "Seeing the AIDS Crisis Through God's Eyes," Rick Warren answered a question about the Social Gospel: "Bob: Let me ask all three of you – there are some who would look at this emphasis and say, 'You know, 50, 60 years ago, the church got distracted with what became known as the 'social gospel,' and forgot evangelism, forgot the spiritual needs of people. Are we in danger of doing that again? "Well, who was right? I actually happen to believe they're both right – that Jesus cared about both the body and society. He cared about the spirit. He wanted people saved, but He also wanted us to act different in society. And, honestly, I would love to see a new reformation that brings those two back together that says, 'Jesus cares about the poor, the sick, the lame, the hurting' – He clearly did – the orphans, the widows, without watering down the fact. And you know, in my heart, as an evangelist, everything I do has the motivation of sharing the good news." And in a BPNews follow-up interview to the Saddleback AIDS conference, where Senators Barack Obama and Sam Brownback were invited speakers, Warren reiterated: "'Right wing, left wing. I’m for the whole bird,' said Warren, smiling, on the last day of the conference, which featured Obama and Sen. Sam Brownback, R.-Kan., on World AIDS Day, Dec. 1. The Original Social Gospel Movement Evangelical leaders are hoping that the current generation of believers do not know the church history of the past century. If they did, they might recognize the regurgitated Social Gospel decked out in new clothing. "The Social Gospel movement is a Protestant Christian intellectual movement that was most prominent in the late 19th century social problems The original Social Gospel movement was characterized by the lack of a biblical Gospel message. It grew and flourished in the early 20th century when the Protestant churches had been overtaken by higher criticism. The denudated Gospel was supplanted by the idea of a "brotherhood of all mankind" ethos. Great waves of social action accompanied the Social Gospel, but it was truncated - it was human activity devoid of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. John Foster Dulles "Convinced that the root case of war was the division of the world in numerous sovereign nation-states, [John Foster] Dulles and his associates proposed a new system in which the affairs of humankind would be directed by an international organisation endowed with sufficient authority to guarantee perpetual peace. In all his efforts, Dulles tried to persuade the churches to embrace this vision of a unified world. It was clear to him that such a proposition would be readily accepted by the general public, if it had first gripped the imagination of the Christian community in America." (p. 308) Likewise, Rick Warren's Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan is set up as a War Against AIDS, etc., according to Senator Obama at a "Call to Renewal Keynote Address "Pastors, friends of mine like Rick Warren and T.D. Jakes are wielding their enormous influences to confront AIDS, Third World debt relief, and the genocide in Darfur. Religious thinkers and activists like our good friend Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo are lifting up the Biblical injunction to help the poor as a means of mobilizing Christians against budget cuts to social programs and growing inequality." 3. Collectivism. According to Dr. Erdmann in Building the Kingdom of God on Earth, "At the Indianapolis quadrennial in 1932 the Federal Council of Churches presented its revised version of the Social Creed of 1908. The new Creed outlined the Council's program for transforming American society into a Christian collectivism. By applying the principles of socialism, as expounded by Walter Rauschenbusch, the kingdom of God on earth would be set up according to the ecumenical ideal. A unified Church would represent collectivist Protestantism modeled on a pattern of the medieval guild system." (pp. 306-307) [emphasis added] Spearheading this effort was CFR leader John Foster Dulles, who "predicted that the social structure of a just world society would be modeled on the prototypes of totalitarian countries like Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany." (p. 88) "It is time to find common ground by moving to higher ground. transformation and renewal.… Read this address in its totality and compare it to the agenda of the Social Creeds of 1908 and 1932. The old worn-out Social Gospel is being refitted and retooled for this generation. The CFR evidently learned some lessons from the past. There is a kindness of heart that drives Christians to do social deeds of charity. But this "passion" for "compassion" can be harnessed and directed. The new Social Gospel will encounter less resistance if there is a veneer of "biblical" and "Gospel" pasted on top the new world order agenda. The Truth: Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them." (Ezekiel 22:26) "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
He let me know he is a close friend of President Bush ''and many, if not most, of the generals at the Pentagon.'' He also told me he did not tape anything while in Syria, ''because it was a courtesy call, like I do in every country.'' ''In fact,'' Warren added, ''as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you.'' No sooner had I received this surprising response from Warren, I also got an e-mail providing a link to a YouTube video of Rick Warren in Syria explaining how great the Assad regime treats Christians and Jews and how Damascus ''does not permit extremism of any kind.'' "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
2 CFR traitors being anointed by the CFR's Pastor! You have to LOVE it! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
There is a HUGE thread on this at FR...Warren 's CFR membership hasn't even been mentioned...
Christian Zionist Dr. Rob Congdon [criticizing] the European Union and Lisbon Treaty. Christian radio broadcasting this material, apparently across the country this week. I really want to know if Chuck Baldwin has truck with these kind of people.
This religion inquisition of Presidential candidates and their position on abortion is silly and frankly non-productive. Even if a Presidential candidate were firmly against abortion, what could he as President do to effect change in the Roe vs Wade existing law of the land? Sure he could try to get an anti-arbortion SC Justice appointed but that effort has no chance of working because SC Justice appointees need to win bi-partisan approval. Since the Dems are firmly pro-abortion and there are so many RINO's in the GOP, well you can see what resistence would come into play re: approving an anti-abortion SC justice appointee. The MSM would go nuts and would work many female voters in the nation into a frenzy just on principle alone about how their constitutionally guaranteed right to privacy was being stolen from them. You get the picture of what would happen next - the women voters would get their spouses, boyfriends, brothers all worked up too on "diminishing" female civil rights, about making them second class citizens...blah, blah blah...It is for these reasons, Presidents since the Roe vs Wade SC decision have not been inclined to work to have that decision reversed because they know that abortion represents the untouchable Third Rail in political issues. Frankly if you took a fair poll of Americans views, apart from evangelicals and a small segment of right wing Catholics, the majority of American people would probably say they believe abortion represents an individual's private and personal decision, that abortion was not something for gov't to make a decision for the individual by default ie. removing abortion as an option and that most Americans would begrudgingly admit that in today's post modern society with its decadent sexual mores, abortion is a necessary evil. And besides which if abortion were outlawed except for rape for example, who would take in all the unwanted babies? Would we revert back to institutional orphanage days, where unwanted children were where-housed for a good portion of their young lives? Frankly I don't see why evangelicals keep flogging this low percentage gain issue today. Society will not turn back the clock to the 1950's. It is not going to happen. End of story. So why be disappointed all the time on an unchangeable immutable facet of post modern Western society? No Presidential candidate will be able to deliver on this abortion issue that evangelical voters set as their top priority political issue. I'm a pragmatist, a realist. And it makes zero sense to me to hear evangelicals tie their hopes to such a dead in the water campaign issue. They are inviting politicians to lie to them, to tell them what they want to hear, and then blow them off once in office. And it has been happening like clockwork year after year after every Presidential election.
Rick Warren Admits He's CFR As far as I am concerned he might just as well admit to being in league with the devil.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. James Deffenbach: As far as I am concerned he might just as well admit to being in league with the devil. Why is CFR membership synonymous with "the devil?" Big deal. It has evolved into being nothing more than a prestigious country club of big wigs in various industries and professions who drink brandy together in smokey wood paneled rooms. There's an aura of exclusivity re: the CFR that makes it seem oh so powerful by keeping out the riff raff and rabbles of crowds with their noses pressed to the membership door - you need to have your name put forward by CFR members in good standing or something like that. Come on - movie stars like Richard Grere are members of the CFR. Do you think he gives foreign policy advice to the President? Do you think Richard Grere is a King Maker? Henry Kissinger is a CFR member and even if he were not, I guarantee you that Kissinger would have the ear of Presidents because of his contacts many of whom are not CFR, who actually prefer to live in the shadows - Adelson - but nonetheless wield alot of power because of their $.
Any club that would have him for a member, or any club that would have most of those people for members, is not a club I would even consider joining. As for the movie people being members they are probably just well meaning dupes.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. The depth of the reach of the CFR as influencing fed policy shouldn't be underestimated, scrapper. Beyond the Secy of State since, I believe, the beginning of time, having been a member, as well as some other 'known names', there are an inordinately large amount of military officers, seemingly along the lines of the perfume prince Wesley Clark, but scattered heavily thru the entire Secretary of State's department(s). And if one really takes the time and compares rosters of names of fed gov and CFR, you would be surprised.. A few years back I did just that with one agency--I think it was US AID, though now I can't remember and it really doesn't matter. Turns out that something like 4 of 5 officers were members.......and then the board of directors (can't remember if that was the title, or advisors, or something)--of say 9 such people, 6 of them were CFR.....and that was using a list I had that was something like 9 or 10 years old! So there could have been even more members. This certainly wasn't the most important agency within fed guv, but just one lil ol agency that is involved with foreign policies. Some of the names of members are just for 'icing'. I can remember after I moved over here in '94 listening to CSPAN all the time--I was a junkie, you could say. I had been aware of CFR for years. But when I first began listening to CSPAN, you never heard mention of CFR--at least I never did, and I'm sure it would have rung a bell. However, in the last 8 or 9 years, you hear it virtually every day. I used to sit and listen to all these hearings, meetings, conferences, and the like, and kept my handy-dandy list of CFR members at the ready. The members don't always list CFR on their CV, so it is not announced. I always wondered why.........hmmmm. Anyways, it is and was interesting. Oh, and back at TOS1, once upon a time, a project was started, and a lady researcher called Alamo Girl, kept a running list of members of CFR, and any information we could find on the various people, she'd add to the list. That is another thing that would widen most peoples eyes--the reach into academia, corporations, boardrooms, and, of course, government. I took the time to print it all out once. I've still got it around here, though it is dated somewhat because I left TOS1 in 2001.
Have to tell you a story in relation to this CFR and CSPAN watching. Once upon a time during these past roughly 15 years, during one of the bad snow storms hitting in DC, there was some conference/seminar/whatever ya want to call it, that was not cancelled. One of the lady speakers rose up and told of the difficulty of getting there but that she felt the meeting would be well worth it. Seems as though the military sent an APC out to pick her up at her home in one of the outlying 'burbs and bring her through this driving snowstorm (no pun) to this meeting to be 'heard'. I don't recall what the meeting was about nor what she said. In a way I want to say the name is Ruth Weiss_________ (? on the first name) who is an ardent support of the international court system and international law, but that doesn't seem quite right--as though I have this woman mixed up with this international law loving broad. But I find it fascinating that fed guv can shut down offices, but there is an organization's member who is so important as to send out an armored personnel carrier from the military to take her to this place to give a speech, and then presumably return her to her home--this was a private sector gal. It wasn't like she had the 'football suitcase' or sumthin!
CFR affiliation, aside from it being the focus of so much conspiracy research, is a clear marker of a globalist. As Ron Paul said in one of the last debates, it's a "conspiracy of ideas." They're externalists, and we put America first. The outside world matters, but hardly to the extent the typical CFR member believes.
www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Ruth-Weiss her by chance?
They are one worlders to the core, sovereignty be damned, and the like. I have no use for them or their ilk.
Same here, dee. I saw the CFR ties piling up in the Huckabee, Thompson, and Romney camps, and tried to expose them on LP during the campaign. I saw Hunter and Tancredo as pit bulls for the CFR egg heads, as well.
No. But I had to go dig out my old binder and look up the name I was thinking of, as it relates to international law and that is Ruth Wedgwood. Notice how her expertise is spread around. Nothing mentioned here about her amicus brief on Yugoslav War Crimes, or Yale prof of law, or much involvement with the UN. This is just an excerpt from wikipedia: Ruth Wedgwood (née Glushien) holds the Edward B. Burling Chair in International Law. Contents [hide] 1 Family origins 2 Current career 3 Background and education 4 External links [edit] Family origins She is the daughter of the lawyer Morris P. Glushien and his wife Anne S. Glushien (née Williams), an artist and translator. In 1982 she married the physician Josiah F. Wedgwood, son of Ralph J. Wedgwood, grandson of Josiah Wedgwood V and great-great-great-great-great-grandson of the English potter Josiah Wedgwood [1]. [edit] Current career She is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations; Chairman of Research and Studies for the American Society of International Law; a member of the policy advisory group of the United Nations Association; an adviser to the Department of Defense on the issue of military tribunals in response to the September 11 crisis; a member of the Secretary of State's Advisory Committee on International Law and the National Security Study Group of the Hart-Rudman Commission on National Security in the 21st Century; on the board of editors for the American Journal of International Law and the editorial advisory board of the World Policy Journal of the New School University; and she is a board member of the Lawyers Alliance for World Security. Wedgwood also teaches at Johns Hopkins University's Paul Nitze School of Advanced International Studies.
Tall Grass NAZI Idiot Reality bump
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
The CFR and the Social Gospel: Part 1 By Discernment Group - http://herescope.blogspot.com
The Social Gospel was, in part, the creation of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). And the CFR was chiefly behind the propagation and widespread dissemination of the Social Gospel. These historical facts are exceptionally well-documented in Dr. Erdmann’s groundbreaking book, Building the Kingdom of God on Earth: The Churches’ Contribution to Marshall Public Support for World Order and Peace, 1919-1945 (Wipf and Stock, 2005). This fact gains new significance with Rick Warren’s recent revelation that he is a member of this internationalist organization.
"Peace” became a central rallying cry. John Foster Dulles used “peace” as a useful theme for furthering CFR objectives. The crises that ensued between the world wars, and then during WWII, were viewed as public relations opportunities. These crises would serve to underscore the “necessity” of forming a world governing structure. Dulles authored an essay that was published in several key publications entitled “The Problem of Peace in a Dynamic World.” Commenting on this, Dr. Erdmann writes:
“By using the ecumenical movement as the preferred vehicle to express his opinions, Dulles chose, as his primary target group, the Christian public in the English-speaking world. His goal was to motivate the churches to become actively involved in building a global society.” (p. 87)
"These problems are so big, everybody has failed [to solve them]. The United States has failed, the United Nations has failed. Nobody has solved these five problems because [the solution needs] a three-legged stool. For the stability of a nation, you must have strong healthy government, strong healthy businesses, and strong healthy churches.
"A three-legged stool will have stability. So I’m going from country to country teaching business its role, teaching church its role, and teaching government leaders their role—you’ve got to work together! We cannot solve the problem in your country or in the world if we won’t work together."
In 1932 the Federal Council of Churches, closely interconnected with the CFR, issued a Social Creed which set the foundation for a Social Gospel for generations to come in the Protestant denominations. The radical ideas of this report called for a reorganization of wealth in society and widespread social planning controls. Note the marketing approach described:
“It is time for believers to unite under the banner of truth and work to address our society's most pressing problems. The time for scare tactics and divisiveness is over. As leaders in the Christian community, we will not stand silent in the face of these attacks, but will instead serve as voices for equality, fairness, and justice for all people.”]
In 1940 John Foster Dulles was asked to chair a study committee “The Commission to Study the Bases of a Just and Durable Peace” for the newly forming World Council of Churches. In this position, as one biographer observed, Dulles was able to align the purpose of the Federal Council’s Commission on a Just and Durable Peace with that of the Council on Foreign Relations. (p. 194-195)
In 1942 Dulles’s Commission convened a National Study Conference on the Churches and a Just and Durable Peace. Dulles submitted thirteen Guiding Principles for “peace” that furthered progressive internationalism.
“After the conference, Dulles sent copies of the Guiding Principles to the White House, the State Department, and to numerous other government agencies. The Commission embarked on an ‘evangelistic campaign’ … to educate local churches about world order issues.” (p. 245)
In October, 1942, in the midst of WWII, the Commission on a Just and Durable Peace published a booklet entitled A Righteous Faith for A Just and Durable Peace. The authors formulated general propositions of peace which were in line with the Social Gospel. Note especially point six, that the Church was to be used to further the aims of world government by proclaiming the Social Gospel tenet of "enduring moral principles":
"’It is that spirit which has allowed me to work together -- and pray together -- with some of my conservative colleagues in the Senate to make progress on a range of key issues facing America,’ Obama's said.”]
It is an interesting dialectic game that has gone on in evangelicaldom the past twenty years. The neoevangelical culture spawned the glitz, glitter and glamour prosperity excesses, the name-it-and-claim-it gospel, and the pomposity of televangelist and self-esteem empires. Self-centeredness and affluence ruled the day. Sins abounded with cheap grace and easy-believism.
The pendulum is now swinging back, but not back to the Gospel of the Bible. It is swinging WAY over to the 3-legged stool Social Gospel of purpose-driven works theology.
Is the global AIDS crisis just a cruel mechanism for the world powers-that-be to orchestrate yet another push for world governance by using the church as the world’s largest volunteer “army” of “one billion foot soldiers” to implement a global “peace” plan?
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:" (Romans 5:1)
"Rick: No, we're not in danger of doing that, and I think that's a great question, though. It was even earlier than that, at the beginning of the 20th century, Protestantism split into two wings, and there were certain theologians who came out that said, 'We don't have to worry about redemption anymore. We don't have to worry about the cross and the atonement and personal salvation. What we need to do is redeem the social structures of society' and, basically, all it was Marxism in Christian clothing. That's really what it was.
"Well, what happened is the liberals took the social justice issues – racism, injustice, poverty, things like that – and the conservatives, Bible believers, took the personal issues of morality – family, homosexuality, personal morality, and salvation.
"'You have to have two wings to fly.'"
What is the Social Gospel? One simple definition on-line states:
In the quotations above, Rick Warren is talking about a new Social Gospel message - a "new reformation that brings those two back together;" i.e., wedding the Social Gospel activism with the biblical Gospel. This is being marketed to the evangelical world as a more compassionate way. But it is, in reality, a new synthesis. And Synthesis is, by definition, a watering down of the Thesis by pulling in elements of Antithesis - thereby corrupting biblical TRUTH.
The new-and-improved Social Gospel bears all of the characteristics of your great-grandpa's Social Gospel, but with a few interesting twists:
1. The same conductors, next generation. The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) involvement in assisting the creation of the original Social Gospel movement is chronicled in Building the Kingdom of God on Earth by Dr. Martin Erdmann (Wipf & Stock, 2005). This fact is important because Rick Warren recently claimed that he was a member of the CFR.
2. A "War Against _____" (fill in the blank). The original Social Gospel flourished in the era between the two world wars. The "War to End All Wars" had not ended successfully with the creation of a League of Nations.
Similarly, the Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan is being accomplished via the small group ("collective") structure, which facilitates the "social" nature of the Social Gospel.
4. Ecumenism & Unity. According to this ideal, due to the urgency of the hour and the crises in the world, the churches must unite. What Rick Warren refers to as the "Second Reformation" is not a new idea. According to Dr. Erdmann, in 1935 the Christian Century published two articles calling for a "comprehensive restructuring of Protestantism." In one article, E. Stanley Jones "called upon the creedal churches… to surrender the heritage of the Reformation. Loyalty to biblical theology was to bow to loyalty to unity for the sake of unity" (p. 147-48). Jones' plan was particularly relevant because it kept intact denominational structures while at the same time forging a new consensus.
A current example of this new Social Gospel call for unity is illustrated by a blog post by Jim Wallis giving a radio address on behalf of the Democratic Party. Wallis has been a leader of the evangelical Left for three decades and has recently been supporting Rick Warren:
"Because we have lost a commitment to the common good, politics is failing to solve the deepest crises of our time. Real solutions will require our best thinking and dialogue, but also call us to
"We need a new politics inspired by our deepest held values. We must summon the best in the American people, and unite to solve some of the moral issues of our time. Americans are much less concerned about what is liberal or conservative, what is Democrat or Republican. Rather, we care about what is right and what works."
To be continued…
#2. To: James Deffenbach (#1)
#3. To: All (#2)
Megapastor Rick Warren's Damascus Road experience
#4. To: All (#0)
#5. To: Rotara (#4)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#6. To: Rotara, nobody, Dakmar (#4)
#7. To: Rotara (#0)
#8. To: Rotara (#0)
#9. To: Rotara (#3)
He let me know he is a close friend of President Bush ''and many, if not most, of the generals at the Pentagon.''
Lord Acton
#10. To: James Deffenbach (#9)
(Edited)
article: Rick Warren Admits He's CFR
#11. To: scrapper2 (#10)
Henry Kissinger is a CFR member
Lord Acton
#12. To: scrapper2 (#10)
#13. To: scrapper2 (#10)
#14. To: rowdee, farmfriend (#12)
#15. To: rowdee (#13)
#16. To: buckeye (#14)
#17. To: rowdee (#16)
#18. To: buckeye (#15)
#19. To: scrapper2 (#10)
Why is CFR membership synonymous with "the devil?" Big deal. It has evolved into being nothing more than a prestigious country club of big wigs in various industries and professions who drink brandy together in smokey wood paneled rooms.
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