4um: The thread that's changed its focus from the original title. Carry on ;)

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Title: The thread that's changed its focus from the original title. Carry on ;)
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Published: Mar 21, 2009
Author: m e
Post Date: 2009-03-21 08:19:06 by Itistoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 11781
Comments: 2261

Officer Jack McLamb's shows:
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030209.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030309.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030409.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030509.mp3
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#985. To: F16Fighter (#980)
I admire those (and I freely admit I'm NOT one) who are able to stay the course on the issue...

My problem is that I can smell bullshit a mile away...and how I have survived in this business is in knowing when to expose it and when to ignore it and allow it's own stink to out it...
When it comes to these web boards, tho, I always feel the need to expose it.
I'm curious as to when you - and anyone else who may read this post - started posting on the web. I started in 1995 on MSN's Discuss and Debate which became Politics and Philosophy ...

war posted on 2009-03-23 15:41:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#986. To: TooConservative (#964)
I demand to be put at the head of the list! ;)

Bye loser.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 15:49:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#987. To: James Deffenbach (#982)
As did I.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 15:50:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#988. To: Fred Mertz (#852)
Palin is the female version of Dan Quayle.

As mcuh as it pains me to say this...I'd give the edge to her...she's got some ass while Quayle is just an ass...

war posted on 2009-03-23 15:56:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#989. To: sneakypete (#829)
I didn't post many,but the few pro-Ron Paul threads I posted were not deleted.

Towards the beginning Goldi didn't delete them. After the obvious spammers and/or professional operatives filled LP with their blog articles on RP, only the spam was allowed to remain. There was some character whose handle I can't remember, but was probably an earlier incarnation of McCain_Rocks. People would frequently point out to Goldi his violation of her rules, yet he would continue to merrily post all sorts of absurd BS concerning RP yet any valid article about RP posted by sincere posters would be cause for a banning.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:03:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#990. To: war (#835)
Wha...chuckle...huh? Go back and rrada it again moron...a point further OUT the the right on an X-axis is a GREATER number, doof.

The report you link stated that it would have been possible for the WTC to collapse by "pancaking" in 8 seconds, yet it would have taken an object 9.2 seconds to hit the ground if it had fallen through thin air when dropped from the top of the WTC. That is impossible, yet folks like you not only believe that it is possible, but you view it as scientific fact.
Then you have the gall to think you know more about physics than those who know better, and have the audacity to call them morons or worse...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:09:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#991. To: FormerLurker (#990)
Lets see the experiments ran by truther civil engineers to show a theoretical collapse time for the towers. That type of experiment should be fairly easy to run. So how long is long enough for the towers to fall?
And exactly why would demolitions cause the tower to fall faster?
Thanks.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:11:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#992. To: war (#836)
The steel did NOT disintegrate dickweed...

You have been a nasty mouthed little troll here war, I thought higher of you back on LP. Do you always resort to that sort of tactic when you are shown to be wrong?
Anyways, the collapse photos most certainly show the majority of the upper structure being pulverized and ejected sideways.
There was a HUGE loss of mass due to that, therefore there would be SUBSTANTIALLY less load on the lower portion of the structure. In fact, there was probably less loading force due to the kinetic energy of the upper part of the tower collapsing than the usual static loading force due to the potential energy of the upper part of the structure.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:20:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#993. To: Rhino369 (#956)
Who is on the list!

Sorry, not free to say, I passed the list via email.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 16:21:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#994. To: Rhino369 (#991)
And exactly why would demolitions cause the tower to fall faster?

The demolitions would cause the floors below the falling upper part of the structure to give way before the upper structure reached them, thus providing no resistance to the falling mass.
If those floors hadn't yet been destroyed, it would have taken additional time for the falling structure to break through each one.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:23:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#995. To: FormerLurker (#990)
I posted three vids that proved with actual physics formulas that even if conditions were ideal (they weren't even close to ideal) that it would have taken 44 seconds to collapse.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-23 16:39:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#996. To: FormerLurker (#994)

The demolitions would cause the floors below the falling upper part of the structure to give way before the upper structure reached them, thus providing no resistance to the falling mass.
If those floors hadn't yet been destroyed, it would have taken additional time for the falling structure to break through each one.

Video evidence shows no explosions on the lower floors while it is falling down.
So how long should it have taken for the towers to collapse?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:40:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#997. To: Cynicom (#993)

Sorry, not free to say, I passed the list via email.

Haha wow, you really are pissed at the LP refugees huh.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:41:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#998. To: IndieTX (#995)
I posted three vids that proved with actual physics formulas that even if conditions were ideal (they weren't even close to ideal) that it would have taken 44 seconds to collapse.

Unfortunately real engineers aren't going to use youtube videos to argue a claim like that. Do you have a paper on it?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:43:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#999. To: F16Fighter (#975)
Were you 'Palo Verde' during your FR life?
The names may have changed, but the same idiocy and hypocrisy still reigns, engaging in EXACTLY the same MO these days - AND for the same reason.
No Palo, nothing much has changed at FR.

Hi sweetie
yes I wss palo verde on FR
I did stay on FR after my drama with the harpies, but I never posted a political post there again
I had zero desire for them to come after me again after that
(it was a long 3 day weekend, thread ran to 4000 posts)
all of them flaming me until the very end when Malador came in to save me
lol it was one of those internet experiences of a lifetime :)
it was stressful for me while it was going on, but afterwards I felt liberated
LOL it gave me so much practice in "Don't attack, don't defend"
I came out unscathed because I never got mad
after that I went to a convivial thread on FR and just stayed on it, making jokes and having fun
and I did have a great deal of fun
I might have just stayed there (on that fun thread at FR)
but Christine emailed me that Goldi was starting LP
and I should join
which I did, and then I started to post politically again
it was while I was at LP that the Snow Bunny episode took place at FR
we had lots of threads about it on LP
it's funny now that I think about it, Malador was a Prince to Snow Bunny too
she emailed him, and he brought her to LP so we could all line up on her side
but I thought it was so mentally disturbed what FR posters had done to SnowBunny
that I never considered returning to FR again
For JimRob to have permitted (encouraged?) that is out of bounds
Love, Palo
it hits me now that there is less insanity on the net than there used to be
hahaha we are all becoming mentally sane

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 16:55:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1000. To: palo verde (#999)
1000
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 16:56:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1001. To: James Deffenbach (#1000)
1001
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:01:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1002. To: Rhino369, IndieTX (#998)
I posted three vids that proved with actual physics formulas that even if conditions were ideal (they weren't even close to ideal) that it would have taken 44 seconds to collapse.
Unfortunately real engineers aren't going to use youtube videos to argue a claim like that. Do you have a paper on it?

Physics formulas are physics formulas. What does it matter if they're on paper or on a video? Did you watch the videos?
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:03:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1003. To: Rhino369 (#996) (Edited)
Video evidence shows no explosions on the lower floors while it is falling down.

There are various videos showing material being ejected out of the windows of floors below the collapsing upper structure PRIOR to the upper floors falling on top of them, if you could even call it that as it appeared more like a progressive pulverization than a "fall".
So how long should it have taken for the towers to collapse?
From 87.9 to 96.7 seconds;

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 17:04:56 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1004. To: Rhino369 (#997)
Haha wow, you really are pissed at the LP refugees huh.

Good heavens no.
Been around many of them since 1998 or thereabouts.
Sometimes I like to tweak the noses of frauds, no matter if olde or new friends.
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 17:06:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1005. To: wudidiz (#1002)

Physics formulas are physics formulas. What does it matter if they're on paper or on a video? Did you watch the videos?

I wasn't linked to the videos, but I will watch them. But yes it does matter that they are on video and not paper. Its very easy to fudge the numbers on a short video, and much harder to fudge numbers and use the wrong equations on a peer reviewed paper.
If you use the wrong equation for the wrong material you won't get anywhere near the correct answer.
Anyone with an engineering background can tell you this. If you start with garbage data, and use the wrong equations you can show anything.
So lets see the videos.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:07:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1006. To: Cynicom (#1004)
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

Hahaha ! 1998

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 17:08:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1007. To: Rhino369, IndieTX (#1005)
So lets see the videos.

freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...rtNum=97175&Disp=469#C469
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:11:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1008. To: FormerLurker (#1003)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision with the falling top part of the tower. That means that momentum will be conserved and the bottom part will accelerate faster than gravity. That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.
Either that graph is a joke, an intentional fraud to trick the uneducated, or done by someone who didn't even finish a decent high school.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:13:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1009. To: wudidiz (#1007)
Thanks let me watch them.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:14:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1010. To: Rotara (#1006)
Hahaha ! 1998

Dont tell me you go that far back????
Damn.
When Bert was overly liquid and disorderly, I could tell him to go to bed and he would.
Beyond that, a very interesting gentleman, a background few knew.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 17:14:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1011. To: Rhino369 (#1008) (Edited)
That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.
Either that graph is a joke, an intentional fraud to trick the uneducated, or done by someone who didn't even finish a decent high school.
That graph was created by Dr. Judy Wood, here's her bio;;

Brief Biographical Sketch for Judy D. Wood, Ph.D.
Website: http://drjudywood.com/email: lisajudy [at] nctv.com

Judy D. Wood is a former professor of mechanical engineering with research interests in experimental stress analysis, structural mechanics, optical methods, deformation analysis, and the materials characterization of biomaterials and composite materials. She is a member of the Society for Experimental Mechanics (SEM), co-founded SEM’s Biological Systems and Materials Division, and currently serves on the SEM Composite Materials Technical Division.
Dr. Wood received her
B.S. (Civil Engineering, 1981) (Structural Engineering),
M.S. (Engineering Mechanics (Applied Physics), 1983), and
Ph.D. (Materials Engineering Science, 1992) from the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.
Her dissertation involved the development of an experimental method to measure thermal stresses in bimaterial joints. She has taught courses including Experimental Stress Analysis, Engineering Mechanics, Mechanics of Materials (Strength of Materials) Strength of Materials Testing

From 1999 to 2006 Dr. Wood has been an assistant professor in the Mechanical Engineering Department at Clemson University in Clemson, South Carolina. Before moving to Clemson she spent three years as a postdoctoral research associate in the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech. One of Dr. Wood's research interests is biomimicry, or applying the mechanical structures of biological materials to engineering design using engineering materials. Other recent research has investigated the deformation behavior of materials and structures with complex geometries and complex material properties, such as fiber-reinforced composite materials and biological materials. Dr. Wood is an expert in the use of moiré interferometry, a full- field optical method that is used in stress analysis, as well as materials characterization and other types of interference. In recent years, Dr. Wood and her students have developed optical systems with various wavelengths and waveguides. Dr. Wood has over 60 technical publications in refereed journals, conference proceedings, and edited monographs and special technical reports.
Dr. Wood started to question the events of 9/11 on that same day when what she saw and heard on television was contradictory and appeared to violate the laws of physics. Since that day she has used her knowledge of engineering mechanics to prove that the collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers could not have happened as the American public was told.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 17:55:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1012. To: wudidiz, IndieTX (#1007)
He is trying to model a collision with a freebody diagram. You cannot do that. He is assuming that the "resistance" force stays constant, when in fact the collision would shatter the top floors almost instantly, at which point the weight they could hold is no longer the weight they could hold before the impact. This is entirely bait and switch. The math they are doing is correct but they fail to properly model the situation.
Want to see what I'm saying. Turn a glass upside down, and place a ball on top of it. Of course the baseball will rest gently on the top of the glass. Using this guys phsyics that means the "resistance" force of the glass is at least 1 baseball*9.8m/s^2, or 1 baseball*g.
Now throw the baseball directly down at the glass. The glass shatters. After the impact is the glass providing 1 baseball*g resistance force? No, its providing almost none because it shattered.
In order to do the calculation this guy is attempting you'd have to run equations on a collision. This requires much more complicated equations. Basically you will have to calculate how much force the building experiences as the top collides with the bottom.
To find that force you'd find the momentum the top of the building had p=v*m; p=9.3m/s*massTopBuild
then the force = d(p)/dt. And since that bulding is made of steel that will not compress all that much that force is going to be >> than the resistance force he calculated since the collision happens over a very small period t.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:56:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1013. To: war (#851)
..you never called for anyone to be banned...

Thanks.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1014. To: FormerLurker (#1011)
Why that can't be! It looks like she did finish high school after all. LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1015. To: FormerLurker (#1011)
Did she write a paper, or only a picture with no explanation?
Because interestingly enough my material science engineering professor disagreed. He actually in class talked about how the towers fell. http://www.matse.illinois.edu/faculty/johnson/profile.html
If she wrote why should thinks the way she does her claims can be analyzed.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1016. To: meguro (#853)
I never saw it either.

Thanks to you,too.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:00:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1017. To: Fred Mertz (#861)
I saw that Mossad Magician threw that cheap shot at you. And I defended you.

Thanks,Fred. I guess the site was pulled down before I got to see that.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:02:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1018. To: Rhino369 (#1015)
He actually in class talked about how the towers fell.

FAST. Kinda like a controlled demolition fast.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 18:03:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1019. To: Rhino369 (#1012)
Believe what you want.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance... that principle is contempt prior to investigation" Herbert Spencer
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 18:04:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1020. To: palo verde (#886)
Thank you Palo. That was a very nice thing for you to say.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:05:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1021. To: sneakypete (#1020)
Nice to see you hanging around; considering the mother site is back up. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 18:07:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1022. To: litus (#900)
I hadn't thought of that; that seems possible.

I do believe that is the standard way high level business is conducted in DC now. Been that way ever since Poppy Bush took office.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:09:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1023. To: Rhino369 (#1008)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision with the falling top part of the tower. That means that momentum will be conserved and the bottom part will accelerate faster than gravity. That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.

Your analysis is flawed in some key respects.
First off, the collision is in fact inelastic as although the upper structure is MERGING with the lower structure, there IS a huge amount of pulverization going on where a large amount of mass is being ejected in the form of dust.
The energy required to pulverize the floors needs to be subtracted from the kinetic energy required to accelerate the mass downwards, leaving less available energy to continue the collapse; there IS such a thing as conservation of energy in case you didn't hear about it in your studies.
As far as the graph, it assumes that the top floor is pulverized as it hits the floor below, yet leaving enough kinetic energy to break the lower floor causing it to fall, (ie. pancaking).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:10:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1024. To: James Deffenbach (#1014)
Why that can't be! It looks like she did finish high school after all. LOL!

Yeppers... :)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:11:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1025. To: Cynicom (#1010)
To be completely transparent here; I wouldn't have been surprised if you had said you were a sobered up version of A+. Good times inside the matrix. If that's possible. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 18:16:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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