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Title: The thread that's changed its focus from the original title. Carry on ;)
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Published: Mar 21, 2009
Author: m e
Post Date: 2009-03-21 08:19:06 by Itistoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 11779
Comments: 2261

Officer Jack McLamb's shows:
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030209.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030309.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030409.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030509.mp3
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#1002. To: Rhino369, IndieTX (#998)
I posted three vids that proved with actual physics formulas that even if conditions were ideal (they weren't even close to ideal) that it would have taken 44 seconds to collapse.
Unfortunately real engineers aren't going to use youtube videos to argue a claim like that. Do you have a paper on it?

Physics formulas are physics formulas. What does it matter if they're on paper or on a video? Did you watch the videos?
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:03:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1003. To: Rhino369 (#996) (Edited)
Video evidence shows no explosions on the lower floors while it is falling down.

There are various videos showing material being ejected out of the windows of floors below the collapsing upper structure PRIOR to the upper floors falling on top of them, if you could even call it that as it appeared more like a progressive pulverization than a "fall".
So how long should it have taken for the towers to collapse?
From 87.9 to 96.7 seconds;

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 17:04:56 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1004. To: Rhino369 (#997)
Haha wow, you really are pissed at the LP refugees huh.

Good heavens no.
Been around many of them since 1998 or thereabouts.
Sometimes I like to tweak the noses of frauds, no matter if olde or new friends.
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 17:06:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1005. To: wudidiz (#1002)

Physics formulas are physics formulas. What does it matter if they're on paper or on a video? Did you watch the videos?

I wasn't linked to the videos, but I will watch them. But yes it does matter that they are on video and not paper. Its very easy to fudge the numbers on a short video, and much harder to fudge numbers and use the wrong equations on a peer reviewed paper.
If you use the wrong equation for the wrong material you won't get anywhere near the correct answer.
Anyone with an engineering background can tell you this. If you start with garbage data, and use the wrong equations you can show anything.
So lets see the videos.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:07:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1006. To: Cynicom (#1004)
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

Hahaha ! 1998

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 17:08:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1007. To: Rhino369, IndieTX (#1005)
So lets see the videos.

freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...rtNum=97175&Disp=469#C469
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:11:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1008. To: FormerLurker (#1003)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision with the falling top part of the tower. That means that momentum will be conserved and the bottom part will accelerate faster than gravity. That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.
Either that graph is a joke, an intentional fraud to trick the uneducated, or done by someone who didn't even finish a decent high school.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:13:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1009. To: wudidiz (#1007)
Thanks let me watch them.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:14:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1010. To: Rotara (#1006)
Hahaha ! 1998

Dont tell me you go that far back????
Damn.
When Bert was overly liquid and disorderly, I could tell him to go to bed and he would.
Beyond that, a very interesting gentleman, a background few knew.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 17:14:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1011. To: Rhino369 (#1008) (Edited)
That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.
Either that graph is a joke, an intentional fraud to trick the uneducated, or done by someone who didn't even finish a decent high school.
That graph was created by Dr. Judy Wood, here's her bio;;

Brief Biographical Sketch for Judy D. Wood, Ph.D.
Website: http://drjudywood.com/email: lisajudy [at] nctv.com

Judy D. Wood is a former professor of mechanical engineering with research interests in experimental stress analysis, structural mechanics, optical methods, deformation analysis, and the materials characterization of biomaterials and composite materials. She is a member of the Society for Experimental Mechanics (SEM), co-founded SEM’s Biological Systems and Materials Division, and currently serves on the SEM Composite Materials Technical Division.
Dr. Wood received her
B.S. (Civil Engineering, 1981) (Structural Engineering),
M.S. (Engineering Mechanics (Applied Physics), 1983), and
Ph.D. (Materials Engineering Science, 1992) from the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.
Her dissertation involved the development of an experimental method to measure thermal stresses in bimaterial joints. She has taught courses including Experimental Stress Analysis, Engineering Mechanics, Mechanics of Materials (Strength of Materials) Strength of Materials Testing

From 1999 to 2006 Dr. Wood has been an assistant professor in the Mechanical Engineering Department at Clemson University in Clemson, South Carolina. Before moving to Clemson she spent three years as a postdoctoral research associate in the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech. One of Dr. Wood's research interests is biomimicry, or applying the mechanical structures of biological materials to engineering design using engineering materials. Other recent research has investigated the deformation behavior of materials and structures with complex geometries and complex material properties, such as fiber-reinforced composite materials and biological materials. Dr. Wood is an expert in the use of moiré interferometry, a full- field optical method that is used in stress analysis, as well as materials characterization and other types of interference. In recent years, Dr. Wood and her students have developed optical systems with various wavelengths and waveguides. Dr. Wood has over 60 technical publications in refereed journals, conference proceedings, and edited monographs and special technical reports.
Dr. Wood started to question the events of 9/11 on that same day when what she saw and heard on television was contradictory and appeared to violate the laws of physics. Since that day she has used her knowledge of engineering mechanics to prove that the collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers could not have happened as the American public was told.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 17:55:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1012. To: wudidiz, IndieTX (#1007)
He is trying to model a collision with a freebody diagram. You cannot do that. He is assuming that the "resistance" force stays constant, when in fact the collision would shatter the top floors almost instantly, at which point the weight they could hold is no longer the weight they could hold before the impact. This is entirely bait and switch. The math they are doing is correct but they fail to properly model the situation.
Want to see what I'm saying. Turn a glass upside down, and place a ball on top of it. Of course the baseball will rest gently on the top of the glass. Using this guys phsyics that means the "resistance" force of the glass is at least 1 baseball*9.8m/s^2, or 1 baseball*g.
Now throw the baseball directly down at the glass. The glass shatters. After the impact is the glass providing 1 baseball*g resistance force? No, its providing almost none because it shattered.
In order to do the calculation this guy is attempting you'd have to run equations on a collision. This requires much more complicated equations. Basically you will have to calculate how much force the building experiences as the top collides with the bottom.
To find that force you'd find the momentum the top of the building had p=v*m; p=9.3m/s*massTopBuild
then the force = d(p)/dt. And since that bulding is made of steel that will not compress all that much that force is going to be >> than the resistance force he calculated since the collision happens over a very small period t.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:56:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1013. To: war (#851)
..you never called for anyone to be banned...

Thanks.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1014. To: FormerLurker (#1011)
Why that can't be! It looks like she did finish high school after all. LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1015. To: FormerLurker (#1011)
Did she write a paper, or only a picture with no explanation?
Because interestingly enough my material science engineering professor disagreed. He actually in class talked about how the towers fell. http://www.matse.illinois.edu/faculty/johnson/profile.html
If she wrote why should thinks the way she does her claims can be analyzed.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1016. To: meguro (#853)
I never saw it either.

Thanks to you,too.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:00:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1017. To: Fred Mertz (#861)
I saw that Mossad Magician threw that cheap shot at you. And I defended you.

Thanks,Fred. I guess the site was pulled down before I got to see that.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:02:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1018. To: Rhino369 (#1015)
He actually in class talked about how the towers fell.

FAST. Kinda like a controlled demolition fast.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 18:03:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1019. To: Rhino369 (#1012)
Believe what you want.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance... that principle is contempt prior to investigation" Herbert Spencer
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 18:04:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1020. To: palo verde (#886)
Thank you Palo. That was a very nice thing for you to say.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:05:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1021. To: sneakypete (#1020)
Nice to see you hanging around; considering the mother site is back up. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 18:07:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1022. To: litus (#900)
I hadn't thought of that; that seems possible.

I do believe that is the standard way high level business is conducted in DC now. Been that way ever since Poppy Bush took office.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:09:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1023. To: Rhino369 (#1008)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision with the falling top part of the tower. That means that momentum will be conserved and the bottom part will accelerate faster than gravity. That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.

Your analysis is flawed in some key respects.
First off, the collision is in fact inelastic as although the upper structure is MERGING with the lower structure, there IS a huge amount of pulverization going on where a large amount of mass is being ejected in the form of dust.
The energy required to pulverize the floors needs to be subtracted from the kinetic energy required to accelerate the mass downwards, leaving less available energy to continue the collapse; there IS such a thing as conservation of energy in case you didn't hear about it in your studies.
As far as the graph, it assumes that the top floor is pulverized as it hits the floor below, yet leaving enough kinetic energy to break the lower floor causing it to fall, (ie. pancaking).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:10:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1024. To: James Deffenbach (#1014)
Why that can't be! It looks like she did finish high school after all. LOL!

Yeppers... :)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:11:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1025. To: Cynicom (#1010)
To be completely transparent here; I wouldn't have been surprised if you had said you were a sobered up version of A+. Good times inside the matrix. If that's possible. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 18:16:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1026. To: Rhino369 (#1015)
Did she write a paper, or only a picture with no explanation?

Well she does have a website that describes her thoughts, and she has given a presentation on her ideas at the 2006 Society for Experimental Mechanics Annual Conference.
But here's something from her site that you may wish to consider...
From A Refutation of the Official Collapse Theory

Appendix A: For those concerned about momentum.

Conservation of Momentum and Conservation of Energy
Conservation of Momentum:
The amount of momentum (p) that an object has depends on two physical quantities: the mass and the velocity of the moving object.

p = mv
where p is the momentum, m is the mass, and v the velocity.

If momentum is conserved it can be used to calculate unknown velocities following a collision.

(m_{1 *}v₁)_i + (m_{2 *}v₂)_i = (m_{1 *}v₁)_f + (m_{2 *}v₂)_f
where the subscript i signifies initial, before the collision, and f signifies final, after the collision.

If (m₁)_i = 0, and (v₂)_i = 0, then (v₂)_f must =0.
So, for conservation of momentum, there cannot be pulverization.

____________________________________
If we assume the second mass is initially at rest [(v₂) _i = 0], the equation reduces to
(m_{1 *}v₁)_i = (m_{1 *}v₁)_f + (m_{2 *}v₂)_f
As you can see, if mass m₁ = m₂ and they "stick" together after impact, the equation reduces to ,
(m_{1 *}v₁)_i = (2m_{1 *}v_new)_f
or v_new = (1/2) _*v₁
If two identical masses colliding and sticking together, they will travel at half the speed as the original single mass.

Conservation of Energy:
In elastic collisions, the sum of kinetic energy before a collision must equal the sum of kinetic energy after the collision. Conservation of kinetic energy is given by the following formula:
(1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁) _i + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂)_i = (1/2) (m_{1 *}v²₁)_f + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂) _f + (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports)

where (Pulverize) is the energy required to pulverize a floor and (Fail Floor Supports) is the energy required to fail the next floor.
If (1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁) _i + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂)_i = (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports), there well be no momentum transfer.

In reality, (1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁)_i + (1/2) (m_{2 *}v²₂)_i < (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports),
So, for conservation of energy, we must assume there is some additional energy such that,
(1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁) _i + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂)_i + (Additional Energy) = (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports),
where (Additional Energy) is the additional amount of energy needed to have the outcome we observed on 9/11/01.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:20:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1027. To: Rhino369 (#1008)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision

BTW, the "official story" requires the collision to be elastic, and that is what has been depicted in TV shows showing the pancake theory in all its offical glory.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:28:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1028. To: F16Fighter (#904)
Quite frankly, it's probably a good thing that The Kenyan and his minions are accelerating their Marxist/NWO agenda so quickly - many seem to be snapping out of their respective complacent ideological comas,
I agree 100%,.
but will it be a case of too little, too late?
I don't know,but I do know it seems to be the only thing that might save the Republic other than a violent revolution,and violence should always be avoided if at all possible.
If one of the "usual suspects" is elected in 2012,we are out of options.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:45:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1029. To: christine (#909)
correct. there have been few, but in every case they were disrupters--people whose only purpose was to denigrate this forum and its members.

If that was the case, you did the right thing by banning them. People can't talk or debate with others constantly throwing bombs.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:47:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1030. To: palo verde (#918)
as Pete said in an earlier post, and forgive me Pete if I got this wrong (I paraphrase) "I could not do half a good a job as Goldi in moderating the forum"

Close enough.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:51:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1031. To: James Deffenbach, palo verde (#930)
The arrival of football season shall not make him any less of a moron.

Seems to me it makes people into BIGGER morons.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:54:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1032. To: palo verde (#939)
I never saw Pete ask for anyone to be banned

Thanks,Palo. You are the third one that has said this.
I wonder if it is sinking in yet?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:57:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1033. To: sneakypete (#1032)
I never did see you call for anyone to be banned either Pete.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 18:59:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1034. To: Rhino369 (#950)
And now she is using the same rhetoric many paul supporters used. She doesn't know what she believes, and is inconsistent.

Maybe she has grown and started to open her eyes?
I remember back in the 60's when I was a Dim. Jim-Mah Cawtur convinced me I wasn't.
After that I thought I was a Republican. The Bush Crime Family and FR convinced me I wasn't.
We are all subject to change our minds as we learn new information.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:01:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1035. To: war (#951)
For those that care, LP is back online.

It's up there in interest with having root canal...

I like it over there. Does this mean you won't be going back and I can't pick on you about Acting President Soetoro?
Can you send a couple of other yankees over to take your place?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:03:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1036. To: TooConservative, Cynicom (#960)
And you're the one who has been fuming over forum tattlers?

LOL! Some people just can't see the forest for the trees,can they?
G'wan! Give it to him! You know you want to.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:06:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1037. To: sneakypete (#1032)
I missed where this all started, but Calling for Banning and Pete, DON'T go into the same line.. Not Now, Not Never.. it's that clear..

Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-23 19:07:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1038. To: sneakypete (#1028)
but I do know it seems to be the only thing that might save the Republic other than a violent revolution,and violence should always be avoided if at all possible.

I agree SP, yet I feel this is the direction we're tumbling toward. And not to sound sanctimonious, but it isn't our side who is itching for a fight. All most want is to be left alone and to have a feeling that government is somewhat responsive to basic requests.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-23 19:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1039. To: palo verde (#939)
Palo,
I hope you stay over here.. as it has a lower level of "hate", if you know what I mean.. ;-)

Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-23 19:08:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1040. To: war (#985)
I'm curious as to when you - and anyone else who may read this post - started posting on the web. I started in 1995 on MSN's Discuss and Debate which became Politics and Philosophy ...

1995 on the AOL political discussion boards,and I think my first post was a serious rant about the IRS. Don't remember what I said now,but it must have been a good one because the AOL monitor sent me a email warning me about how there was no way to tell who was reading my words,and about how petty some government employees could be. He ended up by suggesting to me that I change my screen name.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:16:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1041. To: Cynicom (#1004)
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

I still miss seeing A+'s posts. He was posting over on LF for a while. Have any idea if he is still alive?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:21:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1042. To: Rotara (#1021)
Nice to see you hanging around; considering the mother site is back up. ;-)

Thanks. I'll go back over there and continue to post,but I'm probably come over here more often now if I have the time.
I'm actually trying to cut back on my posting now that the weather is sometimes getting warmer. I have a lot of outside work to do.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:25:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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