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Title: The thread that's changed its focus from the original title. Carry on ;)
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Published: Mar 21, 2009
Author: m e
Post Date: 2009-03-21 08:19:06 by Itistoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 11279
Comments: 2261

Officer Jack McLamb's shows:
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030209.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030309.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030409.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030509.mp3
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#475. To: Jethro Tull (#445)
OTOH, Spectre voted against CAFTA.....but a conservative that doesn't make.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:44:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#476. To: Rhino369 (#463)
You exist on the fringe of the political map, you must know that.

For the record, if I were to have to go back to the mainstream matrix of Truman Story fairy tales - I'd find another road to travel.
The truth unfortunately is a fringe concept in a world of wolves and proud sheeple.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:44:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#477. To: James Deffenbach (#472)
Thanks for the link. If "Queen" Latifah became President would she be called Mr. President/First Lady Latifah? ahaha.

I don't know. See? Now I know her given name isn't really Queen, but I really think this could lead to some confusion down the road. We need to get on this. What if PRINCE became President? Or Dog the Bounty Hunter? We're going to have a mess on our hands. I'm worried.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:46:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#478. To: litus (#475)
Specter isn't an American. Sessions claim to fame is that he sometimes obeys the law of the land. Neither is fit to lead and both are prime reasons the Rs are lost in space.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 15:47:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#479. To: nooz (#477)
I don't know. See? Now I know her given name isn't really Queen, but I really think this could lead to some confusion down the road. We need to get on this. What if PRINCE became President? Or Dog the Bounty Hunter? We're going to have a mess on our hands. I'm worried.

Well, I don't think you should worry because the Obamabots have all the answers (childish and retarded sounding though they may be).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:47:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#480. To: Jethro Tull (#478)
I don't disagree at all. But I also think that IF there were genuine conservatives in office..........by more than at most a handful, those who have at least "tried" to be loyal to conservatism, as opposed to party loyals, this country would not be in the toilet.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:49:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#481. To: Rhino369 (#474)
I read the law months ago when that chart was first created and realized the chart maker is a liar.

Really? Did you challenge him? By what means did you divine it's authenticity? Quija board? Gut feeling?
Nevermind. Playing with partisans is fun. No matter what evidence is presented, people have already made up their minds. It's simple really. Provide the Birth Certificate and end the debate.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:51:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#482. To: James Deffenbach (#479)
Well, I don't think you should worry because the Obamabots have all the answers (childish and retarded sounding though they may be).

That's true. The 'because I say so' crap is about to bite them in the butt.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:53:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#483. To: nooz (#481)
Really? Did you challenge him?

Nope. They won't listen to me.

By what means did you divine it's authenticity? Quija board? Gut feeling?

Reading comprehension.

Nevermind. Playing with partisans is fun.

That is funny since I'm not partisan at all. I didn't vote for either of the two parties this last election, except for my Republican congressman, who was in a tight race. And then only to balance out the democrats who I knew would win by a large margin.

No matter what evidence is presented, people have already made up their minds. It's simple really.

Man you saying that is pretty funny.

Provide the Birth Certificate and end the debate.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:58:34 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#484. To: James Deffenbach (#416)
What isn't obvious is WHY won't he produce an actual birth certificate? Did the dog eat it? Assuming you had the money and you were running for public office, would YOU spend hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars, to hide your actual birth certificate when you could produce one for less than twenty dollars? And if you would, would that not show that you were unfit for office? Anyone would have to be a fool to go to that expense UNLESS they were hiding something and no one would spend that kind of money who wasn't hiding something. Now what could it be? Baby daddy not who he has always claimed or not born in Hawaii?

this post is so logical, that something has to be fishy
I don't know what ?
you are right, it would have to be either the father is different
or he was not born here
what else could it be ?

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:04:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#485. To: Rhino369 (#483)
That's not an acceptable form of proof.
As you were previously informed....anyone can get that and it doesn't prove where the person was born.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:04:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#486. To: litus (#485)
That's not an acceptable form of proof.

By law its prima facie evidence.

As you were previously informed....anyone can get that and it doesn't prove where the person was born.

Uh no, not just anyone can get one. You don't get to make up your own facts.
PS this is why Obama won't consider your requests. Because no matter what the evidence you will create a new reason for more proof. You all just don't want Obama to be President, therefore he isn't.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:08:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#487. To: Rhino369 (#483)
That's a COLB. He needs a BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Charges that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen of the U.S. and, therefore, constitutionally ineligible to serve as president top the list of the 10 most "spiked" or underreported stories of the last year, according to an annual survey.
At the end of each year, news organizations typically present their retrospective replays of what they consider to have been the top news stories in the previous 12 months.
The authors have long considered it far more newsworthy to publicize the most important unreported or underreported news events of the year -- to highlight perhaps for one last time major news stories that were undeservedly "spiked" by the establishment press.
Joseph Farah has sponsored "Operation Spike" every year since 1988.
Here are the picks for the 10 most underreported stories of 2008 -- and four of them are about Obama.

COLBs For Anybody Click the thumbnail to see a large copy of this beautifully printed Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.

It belongs to Sun Yat-Sen, the Father of Modern China, who was born in China.
This Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, dated March 14, 1904, was issued after Dr. Sun signed a raggedy type-written statement affirming that he was born in Hawaii on Nov. 24, 1870.
Sun Yat-sen was born on November 12, 1866, to a peasant family in the village of Cuiheng, Xiangshan county , Guangzhou prefecture, Guangdong province (26 km or 16 miles north of Macau), not Hawaii, as this document affirms.
We know Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's sister has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth too, and she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia. You can be born anywhere and get one.
Source: http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:09:42 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#488. To: James Deffenbach (#420)
Sure, you have to respect people's right to believe whatever they choose to believe. But I find it extremely curious that they defend someone who proclaimed that he would run a "transparent" administration, yet he refuses to show his real birth certificate. And he lied about how he would give the public five days to check out bills before he signed them into law. Just another liar and hypocrite like most politicians.

yes Obama is just another typical politician
and a corrupt one to boot
but that is not how my friends and family see him
to them he is the fulfillment of their idealism
they see what they want to see, pure and simple

seeing truth is an act of decision
it means deciding to put truth ahead of all other values
if someone puts some other value ahead of it
they see that, not the truth
which is why, no matter what Obama does, will they change their mind?
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:12:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#489. To: All (#487)
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

Adoption
Implications U. .S law makes it impossible for a parent to PERMANENTLY renounce a minor’s US citizenship. The US is a signatory to the Hague Convention’s standards for international adoption, and those rules do allow the legal parents and guardians to renounce any former citizenship of a custodial minor. Upon reaching the age of 18, the minor can go before the appropriate US State Dept Official and apply for re-instatement of citizenship, and swear allegiance to the US. There is no evidence that Obama has done so, and even if he did, he would then be a NATURALIZED citizen and will forever have lost any natural born citizen status to be president.
If it makes you feel better, "All three of the 2008 presidential candidates, Obama (aka Soetoro), McCain, and Calero were not eligible under Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution to serve as Commander-in-Chief. "

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:13:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#490. To: war (#427)
LOL
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:14:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#491. To: Rhino369 (#486)
You all just don't want Obama to be President, therefore he isn't.

Keep telling yourself that.
CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH vs. CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH
What was posted was not a birth certificate, but something that resembles a "Certification of Live Birth" or COLB, which, even if authentic, does not prove "natural born" U.S. citizenship. In Hawaii, a Certification of Live Birth is issued within a year of a child's birth to those who register a birth abroad or one that takes place outside a hospital. An authentice Certificate of Live Birth would be issued to someone born within the state of Hawaii.
OBAMA REFUSE'S TO SHOW HIS 'VAULTED BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, COLLEGE, AND COMPLETE MEDICAL RECORDS.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:16:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#492. To: litus (#428)
I'll still say, imo, Jeff Sessions is one of those. Zell Miller is/was too.

excellent post, Litus
I agree with you
both very good men in my opinion
also Virgil Goode
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:16:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#493. To: Rhino369 (#435)
I don't think our government is illegitimate. Its got some major fucking problems, but nothing that we can't solve by electing better people.

Good post!
I agree
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:18:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#494. To: litus (#491)
CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH vs. CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH
What was posted was not a birth certificate, but something that resembles a "Certification of Live Birth" or COLB, which, even if authentic, does not prove "natural born" U.S. citizenship.

Yes it does.

In Hawaii, a Certification of Live Birth is issued within a year of a child's birth to those who register a birth abroad or one that takes place outside a hospital. An authentice Certificate of Live Birth would be issued to someone born within the state of Hawaii.

They did do that in 1961, that wasn't done until the 1980s, and even then they didn't issue a COLB that says they were born in Honolulu if they were born overseas. Come on.
Do you really think Hawaii gives out documents that says foreigners were born in their state? If so show me one. Should be simple.

OBAMA REFUSE'S TO SHOW HIS 'VAULTED BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, COLLEGE, AND COMPLETE MEDICAL RECORDS.

AND HE DOESN'T HAVE TO!

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:19:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#495. To: palo verde (#492)
I don't need perfection. A resemblance of character, especially these days, would go far. I maintain those two gentlemen have that.
Unfortunately, the bulk in the Senate and House do not. I don't believe we will ever see anything but a rapid deterioration of this country as a result in the future.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:19:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#496. To: Rhino369 (#494)
Explain why he'd rather expend thousands of dollars hiding his birth certificate, expend thousands of dollars fighting lawsuits, which would all end with a likely $5.00 fee for obtaining and producing a certified copy of his birth certificate?
Unless he's got something to hide?

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:22:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#497. To: nooz (#487)
We know Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's sister has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth too, and she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia. You can be born anywhere and get one.

First of all that is an unsubstantiated rumor. I've heard this claimed dozens of times but never once was one ever produced.
And finally that you could perjure yourself and get a birth certificate in 1904 Territorial Hawaii, has no bearing on whether you could do the same in 1961. At the time people were born at home and witness statements where the only way to address birth records. And it had flaws.
Obama and the state of Hawaii claim he was born there. Where is the evidence he wasn't?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:22:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#498. To: litus (#496)
Explain why he'd rather expend thousands of dollars hiding his birth certificate, expend thousands of dollars fighting lawsuits, which would all end with a likely $5.00 fee for obtaining and producing a certified copy of his birth certificate?

Explain why you think he has spent thousands of dollars. Also explain how you go about getting a certified copy of his birth records. Since the Hawaii Vital Records only ships out the COLB.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:23:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#499. To: ALL (#1)
First the USS Liberty then Liberty Forum then Liberty Post.
Next is your/our 'Liberty'.

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-22 16:25:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#500. To: Rhino369 (#498)
What is the Deal on this Birth Certificate
The constitution demands “natural born” so as to mitigate the possibility of “divided loyalties”

One can get a “Certification of Live Birth” with minimal documentation and no eyewitnesses. The date of birth can be any date the person enters! This document can then be used to establish citizenship for the purpose of obtaining a passport, but its lack of physically identifying information found on the "Certification Of Live Birth" precludes it from being useful in proving "Natural Born" status. I guess Obama thinks enough folks are so ignorant that he can get into the Whitehouse before too many find out.

The normal “Birth Certificate” or "Certificate of Live Birth" often but not always contains uniquely identifying information but always has testaments from eyewitness’s (doctor, nurse, orderly) and the specific location so that it is now verifiable and traceable. What Obama’s has displayed in NOT a Birth Certificate, Even if it is real, (there are some forensic experts who say the displayed cert has signs of tampering) it does not provide any kind of traceable proof. This is not the traceable-to-an-individual “Birth Certificate” most any other American would be able to show.
http://peoplespassions.org/peoplesvoice/Birth_Certificate.htm

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:27:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#501. To: litus (#495)
I don't need perfection. A resemblance of character, especially these days, would go far. I maintain those two gentlemen have that.
Unfortunately, the bulk in the Senate and House do not. I don't believe we will ever see anything but a rapid deterioration of this country as a result in the future.

You read my mind
I too do not demand perfection, but an honest character means everything to me
I cannot abide corruption
and it matters to me that they want to serve the citizens, not special interests
if they have honest character and are honest public servants, they can be wrong on the issues
as long as it is honest mistakes
that is for me personally, let anyone else see those in our government anyway they want
there is no reason anyone else should see as I do
as for the future, I am among those who believe there will be a Planetary Awakening in 2012
so I see all corruption in government ending then
and enlightened government starting then, where we fulfill all the dreams our Forefathers had for us and far far more
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:33:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#502. To: All (#499)

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-22 16:35:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#503. To: Rhino369 (#497)
First of all that is an unsubstantiated rumor. I've heard this claimed dozens of times but never once was one ever produced.
And finally that you could perjure yourself and get a birth certificate in 1904 Territorial Hawaii, has no bearing on whether you could do the same in 1961. At the time people were born at home and witness statements where the only way to address birth records. And it had flaws.
Obama and the state of Hawaii claim he was born there. Where is the evidence he wasn't?

Ah a distraction, rabbit hole move.
ROFL.
Obama has not presented a Birth Certificate which can clear up a number of questions.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:38:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#504. To: nooz (#503)
Ah a distraction, rabbit hole move.

Why can't you back up your claims?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:39:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#505. To: bluegrass (#350)
The Feds are swamped as there's thousands of them now. I'm a leaderless decentralized cell of one. ; )

That is funny.
The leaderless cell concept are an adaptation from that the old Heinleinian novel, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, where a rebel lunar colony organized that way against the control of Earth. In that story, they were organized by threes.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 16:42:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#506. To: litus (#500)
The normal “Birth Certificate” or "Certificate of Live Birth" often but not always contains uniquely identifying information but always has testaments from eyewitness’s (doctor, nurse, orderly) and the specific location so that it is now verifiable and traceable.

My birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor who delivered me
plus I was interested to notice, the maternity hospital where I was born
(on East 15th Street in Manhattan)
had a different name then, than when I lived 10 blocks from it later on when I grew up
so the specific location is on my birth certificate too
it's actually an interesting document...
Love, Palo
it might also have on it what time my mom was admitted...

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:44:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#507. To: palo verde (#501)
I am among those who believe there will be a Planetary Awakening in 2012
so I see all corruption in government ending then

2big2fail posted on 2009-03-22 16:44:51 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#508. To: Rhino369 (#504)
Why can't you back up your claims?

I believe I have. And quit asking stupid questions. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem and poor litus is having to walk it through FOR YOU in baby steps. As you mentioned earlier, you saw the chart I posted and called it bullshit. You have yet to explain how you determined that.
Unless you can discredit the source, or at least tell me that you challenged its accuracy by personally emailing the guy, then great, lay your facts out.

But the fact remains that Obama, by law, has to present a Birth Certificate. It's the law. Its not what you just happen to think it is for your convenience, it's just the law.

Wanna see something funny?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:49:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#509. To: Itistoolate (#499)
...then Liberty Forum then Liberty Post

maybe forums have a natural life-span ?
the owner of Liberty Forum (John Deere) left years and years ago
I guess he just didn't want to be on his forum
he was a great guy!! one of the best!!
a beautiful liberty lover
and beautiful human being
as for Liberty Post, maybe Goldi just got fed up
but she would not have got fed up with nonsense
(forums always have nonsense on them, it comes and goes)
unless underneath she wanted to be free of it
we'll find out her true feelings if she puts it back up again
or lets it go
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:53:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#510. To: 2big2fail (#507)
LOL!!!!
is that an ET ship
yup, I believe in ETs too
I am a new age flake in every way
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:56:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#511. To: All (#510)
The CATS are going to the Sweet 16
we just won!!
Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
Love, Palo
lol being on 4um is bringing me luck!
Now I want us to get into the Final 4

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:59:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#512. To: palo verde (#484)
this post is so logical, that something has to be fishy
I don't know what ?
you are right, it would have to be either the father is different
or he was not born here
what else could it be ?

I have tried to think of other reasons why he would refuse to produce it but those are the only ones I can come up with.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 17:21:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#513. To: nooz (#487)
Great post, nooz. You will never get through to the Obamasiah's worshipers even with that but it is good evidence for anyone who has more than two brain cells.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 17:24:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#514. To: palo verde (#488)
which is why, no matter what Obama does, will they change their mind?

Some of them may see the light when he institutes a draft/involuntary servitude and has them doing their "public service."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 17:26:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#515. To: nooz (#434)
To be a natural born citizen, a person's parents must BOTH be citizens of the United States of America. Further, that person must be born in the United States.

So McStain was no more natural-born than Yomama.
I suspected this was the case.
There is something that is often missing from this discussion of NBC status, namely that it is a constitutional principle. However, a constitution is not itself a law so you have legislation which actually describes the particulars of how the concept of natural-born from the Constitution is applied. Of course, lots of people don't like that but that is how it functions.
To define 'natural-born' under the law, you have to consult the federal statutes, not the rather inexact language in the Constitution.
The law also has to be consistent with the Twelfth and Fourteenth Amendments. I notice a lot of the Birthers seem to be unaware of or in denial about the Fourteenth. If you look at the earliest law on the topic:

"...the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States." - Statutes at Large, 1st Congress, 2nd Session

So natural-born can be understood as strongly patrilineal. Yet, if the American mother of a foreign-born child is unmarried, that child has a much stronger case for being American than if the unmarried American father is. I assume this is so that American mothers can bring their children home but so that fathers (often servicemen overseas) can deny paternity obligations much more easily.
Anyway, we do have an example from the earliest congresses in which the Founders themselves served. Yet, they changed that same statute in 1795 to instead read that such children "shall be considered as citizens of the United States." which would denaturalize foreign-born children of U.S. citizens even though they would still be American citizens. Now this is how most Birthers do read it. Yet, they insist on ignoring (or claiming improper ratification) to deny the Fourteenth Amendment. The Fourteenth Amendment passed in part so that many blacks born in slavery could be considered full citizens though I'm still not sure they were natural-born.
I think a lot of people think being a citizen is one single thing when it clearly is not. There are natural-born citizens, there are birthright citizens, there are American nationals.
This whole issue is kind of piecemeal and varies over time to address various needs or special cases that arise from time to time. You can't really say that this country has ever had a really unified and consistent template for citizenship or natural-born status.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 17:28:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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