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Title: Fear and Censorship Rampant In "Patriot" Community
Source:
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URL Source: http://Opednews.com
Published: May 14, 2009
Author: .
Post Date: 2009-05-14 18:06:38 by Artisan
Keywords: None
Views: 1874
Comments: 109
Fear and Censorship Rampant In "Patriot" Community "He that sees another in error, and endeavors not to correct it, testifies himself to be in error" -Pope St. Leo I Let me preface this by saying that I have never been obsessed or fixated on 'zionist' or "Jews vs. Arab" topic, as so many seem to be today. I was not concerned with Jews or zionists, or muslims, and had never even met a Jew until I was probably in my 20's. I was raised in an upper middle class Catholic home in Southern California. The topic is an interesting one, though, particularly regarding people's fear of touching the subject. I am all for free discussion of any topic. Nothing should be verboten. The recent response to a topic I helped create has been fascinating to say the least. I am very much against threatening anyone for their speech. This applies to neocons, leftists, 'patriots', or anyone else. Keep in mind I was instrumental in getting coverage on the Michael Reagan issue, when he threatened 9/11 truther Mark Dice on the radio. I even called Reagan up personally and we discussed it, and I told him he was wrong. That as well as many other aspects of this were covered on Clearchannel's KFI Los Angeles, Infowars, PrisonPlanet, etc. Here is the index page of some of that coverage. Now onto the current controversy. It all started last month when I was listening to the INFOWARS stream via my cell phone, and caught a very disturbing exchange between Jason Bermas and a caller. I wrote an article about it on Op-Ed News a few days later entitled 'InfoWarrior' Jason Bermas: Jew Critics Are 'Anti-Semites' Who Should Hang Or Electrocute Themselves (4-19-09) I also posted it on Michael A. Nystrom's website DailyPaul.com, which is a popular site for Ron Paul supporters. After the topic garnered 3 pages of replies from members, the daily paul froze the topic, preventing anyone from responding further, thus pushing it off the front page, off the website and down the memory hole. See: 'InfoWarrior' Jason Bermas: Jew Critics Are 'Anti-Semites' Who Should Hang Or Electrocute Themselves A few days later Bermas and Jones replied about my op-ed piece and youtube vid. Here is their response, Bermas and Alex Jones Respond To the Jewish Controversy part 1 and part 2. Jones and Bermas also responded to the original caller himself when he called in. Their response to the caller seemed nearly as innapropriate as Bermas's first response, and seemed to make the situation worse. I posted the article about their response, as well as the vid, on Op-Ed News: Bermas & Alex Jones Respond To The Jewish Controversy on April 23, 2009. Since the original topic had generated so much interest, I also posted the follow up on the Daily Paul only to have it immediately removed. I was also immediately permanenently banned from the DailyPaul.com without reason. I guess Nystrom, the owner of the Ron Paul adulation site does not support free expression and intellectual discussion any more than Bermas does. The owner ot Op-Ed News, however, Rob Kall, who I believe is Jewish, did not remove my articles. Mr. Kall should be commended for giving people the opportunity to publish and discuss articles. He obviously is nothing like the paranoid politically-correct control freaks that abound everywhere else on the net, even in the purported 'patriot community'. Mike Rivero of WhatReallyHappened.com has posted at least two of my videos that I know of, including Rest in Peace Pete Nosan. Pete was a friend of mine and a tax freedom advocate who served as Restore the Republic CA Chapter leader. He tragically killed himself last year after the IRS came to his job and threatened him). Here is the cache from his site, in case Rivero denies or erases it. I have included Rivero on my mailing list for some time. Granted, he did not ask to be on my list, but as a popular alternative site who lists his contact info and published my material, I assumed he wanted to recieve the occasional articles/ vids that I send out. A few weeks ago Rivero posted my video interview of a Muslim USMC Vet Fired From Job For 9/11 Truth Sign. However, after I sent Rivero the article and videos from Bermas & Alex Jones Respond To The Jewish Controversy, all further e-mails I sent to him have been returned. He apparently blocked me from all further contact; which is certainly his perogative, but is very revealing. Did daring to mention the "J word" cause him to block me? Apparently. Meanwhile, on the other end of the spectrum, and I almost hate the give this guy publicity, but someone named Eric Hufschmid scoured my website, and posted photos of me and my teeth on his website, alleging I am a 'zionist protector' "jew" "dog" "neanderthal", simply because I link to some Alex Jones material on my website. He claims Jews have a gap between their teeth. For the record I had braces in high school and the gap was completely closed, but it came back when I stopped wearing the retainer. Go figure. By the way, I am half Italian, as well as English/German/Dutch and a lifelong Catholic. Someone posted the topic at the Prisonplanet.com forum, and so far, to their credit, they have allowed the topic and discussion to remain. Whoops! As I write this, I just clicked on the topic and see that it has now also been removed. Here is the google cache of that topic: Jason Bermas: Jew Critics Should Hang themselves Prisonplanet forum member 'Protean' started that thread which had hundreds of replies, going on for at least 11 pages. I do not know if Protean has been banned from the site. The original url of that topic was forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=104796.400 - 98k [google search] Jeff Rense, who recently had a fallout with Alex Jones and was removed from GCN, linked to the original youtube video a few days ago. It had had about 2300 views before Rense linked to it, and now has 17,714 views and 634 comments. The same day Rense posted the original video, a Texe Marrs article entitled Do The Jews Own Hollywood And The Media?, (5-9-9) which was critical of Bermas' response without naming him, was posted on Rense.com. There is also a youtube clip here, entitled Jason Bermas & Alex Jones called out as Zionist Shills described as an: "Excerpt from RBN Radio with Michael Collins Piper and Guest: Mark Glenn. Two callers expose Jason Bermas & Alex Jones as the Zionist Shills that they are, and talk about the recent controversy with Bermas telling a caller on his show, who brings up Jewish influence on the media, to kill himself." I have not heard that clip yet. And that is all, for now. The fallout from this fiasco seems to have grown far and wide. I stick to my original response, which was that the comments were grossly innapropriate and out of line, especially from Alex Jones websites, which purport to come from a Christian and freedom-loving perspective. Christians and patriots do not threaten or advocate the death, murder of suicide of anyone. it really is as simple as that. May peace be with you all. "When they sin, rebuke them in the presence of all that the rest also may have fear" 1 Timothy 5:20 "Without me you can do nothing" John 15:5 >
By Martin Hill
5-14-09
I also posted the audio of the call on youtube.
Here are some videos of Texe Marrs with Jason Burmas 2009-03-05 pt 5/5 and here. I heard that Texe Marrs discussed this Bermas fiasco on his radio show, but I haven't heard it. ALex Jones has invited Texe Marrs onto his show as a guest for years, as well as selling his books and videos on Infowars; so it would be interesting to hear them discuss this entire issue candidly. Cudos to Texe Marrs for having the guts to address this issue.
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#8. To: PSUSA (#7)
thanks. Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth. That's all, I can't go into an all-evening rant on our short-sidedness. Alex Jones came to Jason Bermas' defense and said "The show is just growing exponentially, Bermas,........(reap the profits! Reap REAP REAP!) and we can't let the peanut gallery slow us down...." (Listen to Jones shout the man down and run interference for Bermas, all the while switching the focus to "other people" and away from what Bermas actually said) Presumably the "peanut gallery" includes all who criticize Israel, Zionism, Jews, etc.,. beyond what AJ and Bermas consider the PC limits of such criticism. Remember where the "backside poking" began, with a death wish from Bermas to most of us here, and he was defended by the bullying boiler room mass marketer Jones. At the risk of offending you, it may be time for you to stop burying your head in the sand and avoiding the specifics that lead to facts which you will not hear. If Jones and company are not comfortable with the whole truth then they've become enemies of the truth. Jones may believe that he can throw the "joo haters" a little raw meat and smooth talk his way out of this, and between his supporters either avoiding the discussion or censoring those who raise it (Michael Rivero) the topic will just fade away and he can go back to his safe, lucrative, books, DVDs and net advertising business. Jones is using a not so clever ploy and implying that those who "try to trick him and Bermas into making 'anti Semitic' comments are actually Zionists who've infiltrated the white supremicist movement", and he's hoping that by avoiding the subject it will insulate him from the wrath of the ewe gno hudis. ("We'll outsmart the ADL by refusing to criticize or even name Jewish Zionists!" riiiight, Alex) Well, I got news for Jones. That ain't gonna fly. He may as well start looking for honest work because his days as a patriot leader are numbered. Jones and Bermas will only lead a tiny cult-of-personality consisting of frightened, hero worshiping lemmings who "never say the "J" word", and they now have about as much credibility as another former high profile "leader", Marc Weber of the IHR by way of the CIA. And, that ain't much.
Not that I doubt what's always been your ironclad honesty, but how did you arrive at this conclusion?
If his own wife's testimony that Weber used to chat for hours on the phone with Irv Rubin isn't enough, his years as a third world teacher/Peace Corps type is not only classic CIA cover but most uncharacteristic of those with his public political leanings. And, there's this: "'New' IHR Operates as KGB-style 'Trust' for Mossad (From The Spotlight, c 1999) Many supporters of Liberty Lobby and the revisionist movement wonder why the "new" Institute for Historical Review (IHR) under the control of Mark Weber and the people behind him could actually be a front for Israel's Mossad since the IHR continues to publish what is otherwise valuable revisionist literature. The fact is that for the Mossad to be able to continue to wage its war of attrition against Liberty Lobby, using the pressure of the legal judgment obtained against Liberty Lobby by Weber's backers through the venue of the IHR, it is necessary for the IHR in continue operating as a corporate entity. If the IHR were to cease operating Liberty Lobby would not legally be obligated to continue paying the judgment. Therefore it is vital that the existence of the IHR be maintained. If Liberty Lobby itself should somehow be eviscerated in the meantime, it is certain that the Mossad controllers behind Weber and the IHR would immediately pull the plug on the IHR. The fact is that the "new" IHR functions as a classic "trust,'which is defined in more standard terms as "controlled opposition." That is, the Mossad is using the IHR as a means to monitor the revisionist movement from within, collecting names of persons involved in revisionism and studying their activities. IHR MOSSAD-CONTROLLED Although the IHR is a Mossad-controlled "trust," the term "trust" came into intelligence usage, stemming from a famous Soviet secret police counterintelligence operation established in the 1920s and known as 'The Trust." According to Professor Roy Godson of Georgetown University (who is known for his ties to the Israeli lobby), the Soviets used the "trust" model to actually finance and control their own opposition and to feed disinformation to anti-communists in the West, who believed that they were receiving data from anti-Bolshevik elements from behind Soviet lines. The Soviets used the Trust to lure its critics out into the open so that they could be made targets of Soviet state security. That is precisely how the Mossad is now using the IHR in order to surveil the revisionist movement. In the same fashion, the Mossad-sponsored Anti-Defamation League (ADL), and the Southern Poverty Law Center of Morris Dees also create previously non-existent "hate" groups and finance their activities, or otherwise promote organizations that have been co-opted by the Mossad and/or by the CIA, the BATF, the FBI and other federal agencies which have an interest in controlling political dissent in America. Strong evidence indicates that two prominent "racists" operating in America today are actually "controlled opposition." It is very much a "wilderness of mirrors."
I believe what you say. Eustace also told me that Willis Carto was also fronting for the ADL. As Eustace is rather broke and Weber and Carto seem to be doing ok, I think we can deduce the between lines where the truth might be sitting. It's one big disinfo blender. We all know the difference between right and wrong without needing any type of authority, leader or ideological touchstone.
That's just it. They aren't satisfied by just providing info, they want to lead too. Here's something I learned some time ago: The more of a leader you are, the more of a servant you are. Most people think it just entitles them to more perks. They underestimate us. They think we need a leader. We don't. .
It's a forum post, not a doctoral thesis. Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
Can I ask what do you think of the website iamthewitness.com? and who runs it, and what do you think of them? I just went there yesterday for the first time. I found a bunch of great audio clips of Father Coughlin. I found out last year , when i read about him in a traditional Catholic paper, "The Wanderer". (they were strong supporters of ron paul for pres., by the way). Anyway, i found out that my grandpa, who came to the US from Italy, had been a big fan of Fr Coughlin. very interesting. I had never even heard of Coughlin before seeing that article. edit: i just saw that the guy who runs iamthewitness promotes the kook humschmidt. never mind.
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth. Dont just go by that. Take his info into account, it's his site. MAybe he doesn't know how idiotic that man is. I didn't, until you pointed it out to me. From a web design perspective, which admittedly I am NOT an expert, his front page is way too long. It needs to be reorganized. He has a lot of information but it's hard to focus on one area. Information wise, I like what I see, so far. I bookmarked it. Father Coughlin I know nothing about, other than his name seems familiar.
It's a forum post, not a doctoral thesis. Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
well he was long before our time, but he gave great speeches and also i know he spoke out against the bankers. i listened to one of his hour long speeches yesterday titled 'anticommunism, not anti semitism',. great stuff. he also covered the controlled jew media. but in nicer phrasiology,
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth. Well, I got news for Jones. That ain't gonna fly. He may as well start looking for honest work because his days as a patriot leader are numbered. Jones and Bermas will only lead a tiny cult-of-personality consisting of frightened, hero worshiping lemmings who "never say the "J" word", and they now have about as much credibility as another former high profile "leader", Thanks for the good post. An update, The article FEAR AND CENSORSHIP RAMPANT IN "PATRIOT" COMMUNITY, which I first posted here, was linked on the front page of rense.com. Mike Rivero of Whatreallyhappened.com responded to one of his members who posted it: Rivero responds: PrisonPlanet member Ready4truth posted the topic Fear and Censorship Rampant In "Patriot" Community and added "Ok, now lets see how much this forum supports free speech..." PrisonPlanet member TurnerBurn posted a topic Alex, are you going to respond to the Texe Marrs attack on Bermas? Some of the members replies were as follows: Meanwhile, PrisonPlanet.com is increasingly using the 'anti-semite' canard, and had a moderator changed the name of a topic to I am not an anti-semite, I just blame jews for everything (Title Modified) I do not know what the original title was. The topic has 121 pages of replies.(!) Here is the latest page from that thread. The original topic at prisonplanet which was deleted is available at google cache: Jason Bermas: Jew Critics Should Hang themselves and also in archive with stats, and all the deleted replies, here at boardreader.com. I have never heard of boardreader.com, but it looks like an interesting and useful site. Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth. A little off topic, but I spent some time looking at Fred Phelps and his 'church' last night as I'd never paid them any mind. Good lord. Phelps and Co. are straight-up psy-ops working in plain sight.
Who is Fred Phelps?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelp s
Is he the father of Eric jon Phelps?
That is code for "Our leadership power is slipping away from us. I need to rally the troops". I quit going to riveros' site after he started singing the praises of the obamessiah. I dont take anything he says seriously, because he knew better. The "patriot movement" is not turning on itself. IT's turning on those that have the unmitigated gall to call themselves, or encourage others to call them, "leaders" in the movement. Those "leaders" are the traitors. That is all a Good Thing, really. People need to think for themselves without turning to a "leader" for guidance. You don't need guidance from anyone. .
It's a forum post, not a doctoral thesis. Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
My position continues to be that religion is the enabler of the Alex Jones reluctance to indict Jewish influence over America. I know my fellow Americans well, and this is what I see in their souls. They can't part with the Zionist Jew because he's in their Old Testament. I pity rather than revile Jones. The Integralism of the Flange movement in Spain during the 1920s and 1930s represents a notable exception, but when a political movement chooses the Catholic royalist way over absolute individual religious liberty, things are no better. American Christians: free yourselves of this Judaic mythology, or doom your faith to remain a prison for your eternal offspring. You need a new reformation. I do not expect that to happen, and for the same reason you can expect nothing of real consequence from the Alex Jones camp, as tied to hollow religious references as it is. The old pagan ways are returning, as witnessed in the rave movement. I foresee a release from our bondage when western youth simple don't care about Christianity any longer. The moment is near. Paul Oakenfold live at Ultra Music Fesitval 2004, Southern Sun.
It has nothing to do with Christianity. It has everything to do with churchianity. I understand how you lump them together, and your hostility to it, but they're not the same thing. Paganism, IMO, is just another form of bondage, same as churchianity. Their religious roots are not the problem, IMO. Because I have yet to count how many of Christs' teachings and scripture they have to ignore in order to have their traditions and to justify what they do. You said They can't part with the Zionist Jew because he's in their Old Testament. The were in the New Testament. They were called Pharisees and others. Seems I recollect Christ didn't think too highly of them. Especially when he kicked the moneychangers out of the temple or when they thought they had Him trapped by playing silly games with Him. He sent them away like whipped dogs. So, to this very day they hate Him, and those that are Christians. Why? Because they know that we know what they are all about. It's not the atheists that are really concerned about them, because lets face it, there's much worse carnage going on right now than what's happening in "israel". They just latch onto it because they think it proves their case that there is no God. This fight was going on against zionism long before Hertzl (sp?) wrote his books. .
It's a forum post, not a doctoral thesis. Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
Our ancestors knew nothing of Christianity. They didn't need it. We don't need it, either. Even without its Judaic roots, it's a universalist belief system that denies the significance of one's heritage.
Bingo. You both are denying the fundamentally universalist nature of the religion. That's the key. The universalism requires us to deny something essential about ourselves.
Were that true, Syriac Christians would have disappeared long ago.
I really don't follow that argument. Montheism can be transmitted in a variety of ways. It's appealing because it informs the believer that he knows what is right for all mankind.
I have no issue with universalism per se (Paganism has aspects of universalism also). I object to any belief system that compels or coerces one to be a universalist. That's the key: coercion.
My point is that Syriac Christians have been around for over 1600 years. They don't deny their heritage.
Christ died to save everyone. You can't get more universalist than that. It's embedded in the faith.
The connection is faith, not blood.
Matt 7: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you lawless ones!'"
One is born into Orthodox faiths. The converts tend to be nutjobs.
Of course. Christianity has its roots in Pagan universalist belief systems like Mithra and Zoroastrianism. One could argue that the Greek religion was indigenous until the Hellenist period when they figured they could convert everyone. And look what happened to them after that.
Nothing non-universalist here. You can get into heaven if you (have faith/believe/pursue the right incantations). The Christ will save anyone who does what he says.
Funny, but again, there's nothing non-universalist here.
Absolutely. I suppose what makes a me a conservative is that I'm loathe to reject any system or institution that's been around for multiple centuries and has left a collection of wisdom and folly (known as scripture) for us to peruse. All scriptures of every religion have pearls buried in the muck. It just takes a little time to find the pearls. The same can't be said of the edicts, proclamations and Executive Orders of popinjays that think they rule the roost. ; )
Incorrect. Faith/incantations aren't enough. That's the point of the quote from Matthew. How we live our lives in relation to one another is the key. Most Christians miss that part of it anyway.
Monotheistic follies are the core of tyranny on a deeply philosophical level, because their adherents assume that they are right for all, and that all are subject to their values. This is in stark opposition to what science and personal perceptions inform the individual. I do not claim to be a "conservative," in any case. I know what I know, and that's enough for me. Monotheism would deny that fundamental right, and often it does.
Yes, a fundamentally universalist concept. The universalist, all-knowing, all-caring God loves those poor Mexican immigrants just as much as you and me. They can be saved if they live their lives in relation to one another properly.
I meant in the true sense, not in the Hannitized sense. Monotheistic follies are the core of tyranny on a deeply philosophical level, because their adherents assume that they are right for all, and that all are subject to their values. The tendency to Empire is the basis of tyranny. Religion has been used as the tool to herd people together into the Empire pen like good little sheep. Tools, by their nature, are neutral. We can hammmer a nail or hammer our neighbor's skull. Likewise, we can use religion as a true binding of community or we can use it to smash other communities. The difference is the corrupt tendency to rule others that manifests as Empire.
You're evading the universalist core of any monotheistic faith that accepts all converts.
Do you believe in some form of existence after this one?
Pagans don't seem too particular about who they accept.
You're talking about the New Age pagans. Most of what they believe is malarkey. A good portion of it is Masonic.
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"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#9. To: lodwick, bluegrass, christine, Jethro Tull, Artisan (#5)
Man, why do we keep poking each other in the backside?
#10. To: HOUNDDAWG (#9)
Marc Weber of the IHR by way of the CIA
#11. To: bluegrass, lodwick. Artisan (#10)
... how did you arrive at this conclusion?
#12. To: HOUNDDAWG (#11)
#13. To: bluegrass, artisan, all (#12)
We all know the difference between right and wrong without needing any type of authority, leader or ideological touchstone.
It's a fine line between being too specific and long winded and therefore too irritating to bother to read, and being too cryptic and therefore too irritating to try to interpret.
#14. To: HOUNDDAWG, bluegrass, itistoolate, rickyj, psusa, original_intent (#11)
(Edited)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#15. To: Artisan (#14)
edit: i just saw that the guy who runs iamthewitness promotes the kook humschmidt. never mind.
It's a fine line between being too specific and long winded and therefore too irritating to bother to read, and being too cryptic and therefore too irritating to try to interpret.
#16. To: PSUSA (#15)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#17. To: HOUNDDAWG, bluegrass, psusa, twentytwelve, original_intent, jethro tull, fred mertz, christine, itistoolate, rickyj, rotara, deasy, noone222 (#9)
Jones is using a not so clever ploy and implying that those who "try to trick him and Bermas into making 'anti Semitic' comments are actually Zionists who've infiltrated the white supremicist movement", and he's hoping that by avoiding the subject it will insulate him from the wrath of the ewe gno hudis. ("We'll outsmart the ADL by refusing to criticize or even name Jewish Zionists!" riiiight, Alex)
Fear and Censorship Rampant In "Patriot" Community I post this as food for thought.The NWO boys use divide and conquer tactics to keep us all apart and ineffective. I do'nt know that the author is trying to stir up trouble.However he makes some valid points. Being of Ashkenazi background myself,1/8 to be exact(I'm a real American mutt,ancestor wise) I do not like to see carte blanche attacks on "Jews".Zionism which I once supported is the problem along with the fractional reserve usurious banking system. I hope that Mike or Alex do'nt get mad at me. United we stand,divided we fall!
I am not mad at you. You are correct; in recent weeks there has been an obvious campaign to try to get the patriot movement to turn on itself. Now that the corporate media has finally been forced to report what the blogs have been telling you all along; that the entire case for war (including the frame-up for 9-11) was based on confessions extracted under torture, attempts to disrupt the blog-o-sphere will no doubt intensify. But we will not be tricked. We will not be silenced! And the price to shut us up just went WAY up! :)
Michael Rivero
webmaster
What Really Happened
05/15/2009 - 08:18 What are you waiting for? Rense has had a whole section devoted to this nonsense. And f.y.i. Alexa ranks rense.com as having a larger footprint than prisonplanet.com and it is slightly smaller than infowars.com. So, that's alot of people seeing Texe Marrs bad-mouth Jason Bermas. It's time to expose Rense for the freak that he is. And it's time to call out your old buddy Texe Marrs. Publicly!!! Enough you-tube stuff. They're a private entity, and they're entitled to control content. Just as you are. What are you going to do now that your alleged friend is on the attack??
B.T.W. Don't flame me chumps! I've been a loyal listener/subscriber for years. I'm just tired of generic responses to the Reagans, Savages, Becks, etc, but not one distinct response to the "alternative" media attacks. Especially to sources that are not that far away from being at the tip of the electronic spear
I agree with you... I think a response is necessary at this point.
I would like to see Alex have Jason and Texe discuss this issue. We can have Jason and Texe on Infowarior talk about it.
Haha...Yeah right, Jones should come out and say Boring Bermas was right to say the caller should kill himself...because it's goooood to say things like that. Care to suggest a possible defence for Jones to make?
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"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#18. To: Artisan, HOUNDDAWG, bluegrass, psusa, twentytwelve, original_intent, jethro tull, fred mertz, christine, itistoolate, rickyj, deasy, noone222, Lady X (#17)
#19. To: bluegrass (#18)
#20. To: Itistoolate (#19)
#21. To: bluegrass (#20)
#22. To: Artisan, HOUNDDAWG, bluegrass, twentytwelve, original_intent, jethro tull, fred mertz, christine, itistoolate, rickyj, deasy, noone222, Lady X (#17)
... You are correct; in recent weeks there has been an obvious campaign to try to get the patriot movement to turn on itself. ... webmaster What Really Happened
It's a fine line between being too specific and long winded and therefore too irritating to bother to read, and being too cryptic and therefore too irritating to try to interpret.
#23. To: PSUSA, Artisan, HOUNDDAWG, bluegrass, twentytwelve, original_intent, jethro tull, fred mertz, christine, itistoolate, rickyj, deasy, noone222, Lady X, sushigirl, *Up to the Sun*, *Up to the Sun* (#22)
#24. To: Deasy (#23)
The old pagan ways are returning, as witnessed in the rave movement. I foresee a release from our bondage when western youth simple don't care about Christianity any longer. The moment is near.
It's a fine line between being too specific and long winded and therefore too irritating to bother to read, and being too cryptic and therefore too irritating to try to interpret.
#25. To: PSUSA (#24)
#26. To: PSUSA, Deasy (#24)
It has nothing to do with Christianity. It has everything to do with churchianity.
#27. To: bluegrass, PSUSA (#26)
#28. To: Deasy, PSUSA (#25)
it's a universalist belief system that denies the significance of one's heritage.
#29. To: bluegrass (#28)
#30. To: Deasy (#27)
The universalism requires us to deny something essential about ourselves.
#31. To: Deasy (#29)
#32. To: bluegrass (#30)
#33. To: bluegrass (#31)
My point is that Syriac Christians have been around for over 1600 years. They don't deny their heritage.
#34. To: Deasy (#32)
Christ died to save everyone. You can't get more universalist than that. It's embedded in the faith.
#35. To: Deasy (#33)
#36. To: bluegrass (#30)
Paganism has aspects of universalism also.
#37. To: bluegrass (#34)
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you lawless ones!'"
#38. To: bluegrass (#35)
One is born into Orthodox faiths. The converts tend to be nutjobs.
#39. To: Deasy (#36)
Christianity has its roots in Pagan universalist belief systems like Mithra and Zoroastrianism.
#40. To: Deasy (#37)
You can get into heaven if you (have faith/believe/pursue the right incantations). The Christ will save anyone who does what he says.
#41. To: bluegrass (#39)
I suppose what makes a me a conservative is that I'm loathe to reject any system or institution that's been around for multiple centuries and has left a collection of wisdom and folly (known as scripture) for us to peruse.
#42. To: bluegrass (#40)
How we live our lives in relation to one another is the key.
#43. To: Deasy (#41)
I do not claim to be a "conservative"
#44. To: bluegrass (#43)
#45. To: Deasy (#42)
#46. To: Deasy (#44)
#47. To: bluegrass (#46)
Pagans don't seem too particular about who they accept.
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