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Bomb Cyclone Pacific Northwest


Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Through a Glass, Darkly (Patton on the Cyclic Nature of War)
Source: Website of General George S. Patton, Jr.
URL Source: http://www.generalpatton.com/poem.html
Published: May 19, 2009
Author: George S. Patton, Jr.
Post Date: 2009-05-20 00:09:09 by Deasy
Ping List: *Up to the Sun*     Subscribe to *Up to the Sun*
Keywords: Asatru, Odin, Norse, Cyclic
Views: 1069
Comments: 69

THROUGH A GLASS, DARKLY
by Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.

Through the travail of the ages,
Midst the pomp and toil of war,
Have I fought and strove and perished
Countless times upon this star.

In the form of many people
In all panoplies of time
Have I seen the luring vision
Of the Victory Maid, sublime.


I have battled for fresh mammoth,
I have warred for pastures new,
I have listed to the whispers
When the race trek instinct grew.

I have known the call to battle
In each changeless changing shape
From the high souled voice of conscience
To the beastly lust for rape.

I have sinned and I have suffered,
Played the hero and the knave;
Fought for belly, shame, or country,
And for each have found a grave.

I cannot name my battles
For the visions are not clear,
Yet, I see the twisted faces
And I feel the rending spear.

Perhaps I stabbed our Savior
In His sacred helpless side.
Yet, I've called His name in blessing
When after times I died.

In the dimness of the shadows
Where we hairy heathens warred,
I can taste in thought the lifeblood;
We used teeth before the sword.

While in later clearer vision
I can sense the coppery sweat,
Feel the pikes grow wet and slippery
When our Phalanx, Cyrus met.

Hear the rattle of the harness
Where the Persian darts bounced clear,
See their chariots wheel in panic
From the Hoplite's leveled spear.

See the goal grow monthly longer,
Reaching for the walls of Tyre.
Hear the crash of tons of granite,
Smell the quenchless eastern fire.

Still more clearly as a Roman,
Can I see the Legion close,
As our third rank moved in forward
And the short sword found our foes.

Once again I feel the anguish
Of that blistering treeless plain
When the Parthian showered death bolts,
And our discipline was in vain.

I remember all the suffering
Of those arrows in my neck.
Yet, I stabbed a grinning savage
As I died upon my back.

Once again I smell the heat sparks
When my Flemish plate gave way
And the lance ripped through my entrails
As on Crecy's field I lay.

In the windless, blinding stillness
Of the glittering tropic sea
I can see the bubbles rising
Where we set the captives free.

Midst the spume of half a tempest
I have heard the bulwarks go
When the crashing, point blank round shot
Sent destruction to our foe.

I have fought with gun and cutlass
On the red and slippery deck
With all Hell aflame within me
And a rope around my neck.

And still later as a General
Have I galloped with Murat
When we laughed at death and numbers
Trusting in the Emperor's Star.

Till at last our star faded,
And we shouted to our doom
Where the sunken road of Ohein
Closed us in it's quivering gloom.

So but now with Tanks a'clatter
Have I waddled on the foe
Belching death at twenty paces,
By the star shell's ghastly glow.

So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

And I see not in my blindness
What the objects were I wrought,
But as God rules o'er our bickerings
It was through His will I fought.

So forever in the future,
Shall I battle as of yore,
Dying to be born a fighter,
But to die again, once more.


Poster Comment:


"A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it."


* Some exerpts from recent Patton biographies regarding the General's feelings about reincarnation, including his poem "Through a Glass Darkly":

At dinner, say, after grandly intoning Rupert Brooke's "The Soldier" ("If I should die, think only this of me/There is some corner in a foreign field/That is forever England" [sic]), Georgie [Patton] might offer his fond prediction that he would die in a foreign land, since, as Napoleon said, the boundaries of an empire are marked by the graves of her soldiers. Beatrice [Patton's wife] would nod, the fire in the fireplace would crackle significantly, and the meal would resume as the girls furtively eyed their father in expectation of his next trick.

If discussing reincarnation (one of his favorite topics), he would offer up as evidence pertinent bits of The Bhagavad Gita ("For sure is the death of him that is born, and sure the birth of him that is dead"), and his old standby, Revelations 3:12: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out." To these he added the fifth stanza of Papa's [Patton's father] favorite poem, Wordsworth's "Intimations" ode: "Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting,/The soul that rises with us, our life's Star,/Hath had elsewhere its setting/And cometh from afar." Clearly, Georgie said, Wordsworth shared his belief in reincarnation.

(Patton, The Pattons: A Portrait of an American Family, 198)

The best expression of his past lives appears in a lengthy poem written in 1922 . . . .Titled "Through a Glass Darkly," Patton demonstrates a powerful belief in God and alludes to earlier lives, the first of which may have been as a caveman. He even suggests that while Christ was on the cross

Perhaps I stabbed our Savior
In His sacred helpless side.
Yet I've called His name in blessing
When in after times I died.

(D'Este, Patton A Genius for War, 324)

More stanzas from this poem come from Patton, The Pattons: A Portrait of an American Family (the first and third stanzas reproduced here were quoted in the movie 1970 film Patton, starring George C. Scott):

Through the travail of the ages
Midst the pomp and toil of war
Have I fought and strove and perished
Countless times upon this star.

I have sinned and I have suffered
Played the hero and the knave
Fought for belly, shame or country
And for each have found a grave.

So as through a glass and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names -- but always me.

(198-199)

This most moving and complex of his poems concludes with the words:

So forever in the future
Shall I battle as of yore,
Dying to be born a fighter
But to die again once more.

(D'Este, Patton A Genius for War, 324)

http://net.lib.byu.edu/english/wwi/over/glass.html Subscribe to *Up to the Sun*

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#29. To: Deasy, all (#24)

Old boys start to ask the all important question, "why?"

Even my thirty-year career USAF Colonel fil saw the scam of it all, after he retired from the service. RIP

The trees have always blocked our sight of the forest.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   19:06:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Deasy. all (#27)

People were saying the volunteers and draftees must have been "stupid" and "enablers."

Even after the murder of Jack Kennedy, we still 'believed' in our government.

We thought that we were the best, the brightest, and the most honorable nation on earth.

We were uneducated, and just plain wrong on so many counts.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   19:13:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: tom007, SKYDRIFTER, lodwick, tom007, Deasy (#25)

we've not learned a freaking thing.

oh, but the elite planners and executors of all these wars have learned. they've learned that war pays and pays them well.

The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama

christine  posted on  2009-05-20   19:14:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Jethro Tull (#2)

Today the PD gathers mental cases in government approved doses:

I was generally on the wrong side of the law in my early days, but back then, I respected the cops. They were decent people doing a good job. They harassed the shit out of me, but they knew I was a punk. I deserved it.

Then I grew up and was a good boy from there on out. However, over the last 30 years, I have seen the change. The cops now are nothing but a bunch of punks. Though I'm operating on the right side of the law now, I have zero respect for these cowardly pieces of shit. They can't even walk up to a car they pulled over in broad daylight without one hand on the gun. They are scared shitless of us peons.

I can't even imagine how fast they would run away if they ever ran into someone REALLY dangerous. They'd probably piss their pants on the way too.

I give them a hard time any time I can, and though they always start out acting like tough guys, they turn into whiny little wusses when I stand up to them by exercising my rights as a free man in a free country.


Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst

Critter  posted on  2009-05-20   19:15:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: christine (#31)

hese wars have learned. they've learned that war pays and pays them well.

I ahve a couple of friends that do gov work and they go to DC frequently.

They both say that the car dealerships there can't keep BMW's etc on the lots - Big Spenders are every where.

I must say that this info is about a year dated.

One of the friends admitted it was a little unsettling to see the wealth in DC.

Well, they are the closest to the Printing Presses.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-05-20   19:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: christine, all (#31)

oh, but the elite planners and executors of all these wars have learned. they've learned that war pays and pays them well.

Yes, the jew financiers of both sides understand it very well.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   19:19:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: All (#34)

This is turning into a wonderfully good thread.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and insights here.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   19:23:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Critter, IndieTX (#32)

How tired are you of hearing police say, "Our only concern is getting home safely at the end of the day." Such statements reveal two common traits in modern police forces. The first is an over-sized sense of danger. In reality, police work isn't in the top ten dangerous professions. Indeed, no government job is in the top ten. The second attitude is the self-centered nature of police work. Concern for the public takes a backseat to concern for "officer's safety." This current bunch of cops are about putting people into the system to increase the size and scope of government. When I was on that was the least of our concerns.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-05-20   19:51:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Jethro Tull, all Cops, and military here (#36)

A retired Houston PD cop friend told me that if there was not blood involved, do not arrest, file a complaint, or otherwise take up their time filing any paperwork.

This seems very reasonable to me.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   19:59:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: lodwick, Jethro Tull, critter, IndieTX (#37)

see related and always a great read: Smedley Butley, War is a Racket.

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug- out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

And what is this bill?

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

Again they are choosing sides. France and Russia met and agreed to stand side by side. Italy and Austria hurried to make a similar agreement. Poland and Germany cast sheep's eyes at each other, forgetting for the nonce [one unique occasion], their dispute over the Polish Corridor.

The assassination of King Alexander of Jugoslavia [Yugoslavia] complicated matters. Jugoslavia and Hungary, long bitter enemies, were almost at each other's throats. Italy was ready to jump in. But France was waiting. So was Czechoslovakia. All of them are looking ahead to war. Not the people – not those who fight and pay and die – only those who foment wars and remain safely at home to profit.

There are 40,000,000 men under arms in the world today, and our statesmen and diplomats have the temerity to say that war is not in the making.

Hell's bells! Are these 40,000,000 men being trained to be dancers?

Not in Italy, to be sure. Premier Mussolini knows what they are being trained for. He, at least, is frank enough to speak out. Only the other day, Il Duce in "International Conciliation," the publication of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said:

"And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace... War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it."

Undoubtedly Mussolini means exactly what he says. His well-trained army, his great fleet of planes, and even his navy are ready for war – anxious for it, apparently. His recent stand at the side of Hungary in the latter's dispute with Jugoslavia showed that. And the hurried mobilization of his troops on the Austrian border after the assassination of Dollfuss showed it too. There are others in Europe too whose sabre rattling presages war, sooner or later.

Herr Hitler, with his rearming Germany and his constant demands for more and more arms, is an equal if not greater menace to peace. France only recently increased the term of military service for its youth from a year to eighteen months.

Yes, all over, nations are camping in their arms. The mad dogs of Europe are on the loose. In the Orient the maneuvering is more adroit. Back in 1904, when Russia and Japan fought, we kicked out our old friends the Russians and backed Japan. Then our very generous international bankers were financing Japan. Now the trend is to poison us against the Japanese. What does the "open door" policy to China mean to us? Our trade with China is about $90,000,000 a year. Or the Philippine Islands? We have spent about $600,000,000 in the Philippines in thirty-five years and we (our bankers and industrialists and speculators) have private investments there of less than $200,000,000.

Then, to save that China trade of about $90,000,000, or to protect these private investments of less than $200,000,000 in the Philippines, we would be all stirred up to hate Japan and go to war – a war that might well cost us tens of billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives of Americans, and many more hundreds of thousands of physically maimed and mentally unbalanced men.

Of course, for this loss, there would be a compensating profit – fortunes would be made. Millions and billions of dollars would be piled up. By a few. Munitions makers. Bankers. Ship builders. Manufacturers. Meat packers. Speculators. They would fare well.

Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn't they? It pays high dividends.

But what does it profit the men who are killed? What does it profit their mothers and sisters, their wives and their sweethearts? What does it profit their children?

What does it profit anyone except the very few to whom war means huge profits?

Yes, and what does it profit the nation?

Take our own case. Until 1898 we didn't own a bit of territory outside the mainland of North America. At that time our national debt was a little more than $1,000,000,000. Then we became "internationally minded." We forgot, or shunted aside, the advice of the Father of our country. We forgot George Washington's warning about "entangling alliances." We went to war. We acquired outside territory. At the end of the World War period, as a direct result of our fiddling in international affairs, our national debt had jumped to over $25,000,000,000. Our total favorable trade balance during the twenty-five-year period was about $24,000,000,000. Therefore, on a purely bookkeeping basis, we ran a little behind year for year, and that foreign trade might well have been ours without the wars.

It would have been far cheaper (not to say safer) for the average American who pays the bills to stay out of foreign entanglements. For a very few this racket, like bootlegging and other underworld rackets, brings fancy profits, but the cost of operations is always transferred to the people – who do not profit.

TRAITORS TO AMERICA AND BRAINWASHED IDIOTS SUPPORT AND DEFEND ISRAEL. TO HELL WITH ZIONISTS AND THIER AMERICAN FRONTS: AIPAC/PNAC/ADL/JPCA/NAACP/CFR/FEDERAL RESERVE/NWO/SPLC/JINSA/ACLU/FPI/CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS/AEI/FEDERAL MEDIA/HOLLYWOOD, et. al.

wbales  posted on  2009-05-20   20:10:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: wbales (#38)

Big ups to you on this brilliant post.

Thank you.

Let us make war, no more.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   20:42:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: wbales, lodwick (#38)

Ditto what lodwick says. Dead on material!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-05-20   21:07:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Jethro Tull, wbales, lodwick (#40)

Take our own case. Until 1898 we didn't own a bit of territory outside the mainland of North America. At that time our national debt was a little more than $1,000,000,000. Then we became "internationally minded." We forgot, or shunted aside, the advice of the Father of our country. We forgot George Washington's warning about "entangling alliances."

Empire hasn't been a good investment.

I'm getting $11.3 trillion on the above debt clock embed right now.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-20   21:15:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Deasy (#41)

I'm not entirely convinced an economic collapse isn't the ultimate goal. I can't explain what's happening without considering intent.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-05-20   21:21:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: wbales (#38)

absolutely timeless

The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama

christine  posted on  2009-05-20   21:22:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Jethro Tull (#42)

It's a fair statement. In my mind, it would be possible to avoid what we've done even in the past six months. And the media pipes in recommendations for every irresponsible action congress and the executive seeks. It's outrageous.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-20   21:26:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Deasy, all (#0)

WWII legendary General George S. Patton 'was assassinated'.

Article from:
PTI - The Press Trust of India Ltd.
Article date:
December 21, 2008
More results for:
general patton

WWII legendary General George S. Patton 'was assassinated'

London, Dec 21 (PTI) -- Conspiracy theories have shrouded the mysterious death of legendary US General George S. Patton for long. Now, 63 years on, a new book has claimed that he was assassinated to silence his criticism of WWII allied leaders.

According to the book, American spy chiefs hatched a plan to assassinate Patton after World War II in connivance with US leaders because he had threatened to expose the allied collusion with the Russians that cost lives of many Americans.

Although Patton had suffered serious injuries in a car crash at Manheim, he was thought to be recovering and was on the verge of flying home. He died in December 1945.

But, according to the book, the wartime Head of Office of Strategic Services (OSS) Gen "Wild Bill" Donovan ordered a highly decorated marksman Douglas Bazatato "to silence" Patton who gloried in the nickname "Old Blood and Guts".

"Patton was going to resign from the Army. He wanted to go to war with the Russians. The administration thought he was nuts. He also knew secrets of the war which would have ruined careers.

"I don't think Dwight Eisenhower would ever have been elected President if Patton had lived to say the things he wanted to say," the author of the book 'Target Patton', Robert Wilcox, was quoted by British newspaper 'The Sunday Telegraph' as saying.

In fact, military historian Wilcox has cited extracts from the newly unearthed diaries of the assassin Bazatato, who died in 1999, as well as interviews with him to corroborate his claims in the newly published book. The book details how Bazatato staged the car crash by getting a troop truck to plough into Patton's Cadillac and then shot the US General with a low- velocity projectile, which broke his neck while his fellow passengers escaped literally without a scratch.

Wilcox told the British newspaper that when he spoke to Bazata: "He was struggling with himself, all these killings he had done. He confessed to me he had caused the accident, that he was ordered to do so by Wild Bill Donovan.

"Donovan told him: 'We've got a terrible situation with this great patriot, he's out of control and we must save him from himself and from ruining everything the allies have done.' I believe Douglas Bazata. He's a sterling guy." Bazata led an extraordinary life. He was a member of the Jedburghs, the elite unit who parachuted into France to help organise the Resistance in the run up to D-Day in 1944.

After the war he became a celebrated artist who enjoyed the patronage of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. He ended his career as an aide to US President Ronald Reagan's Navy Secretary John Lehman, a member of the 9/11 Commission.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-05-20   21:28:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: wbales, all Americans (#38)

I just re-read your post, and it is so dead-spot on the money.

I cannot tell you how correct that I find it to be.

Permanent BookMark here.

Stay safe, and God Bless.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   21:35:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Jethro Tull (#36)

How tired are you of hearing police say, "Our only concern is getting home safely at the end of the day." Such statements reveal two common traits in modern police forces. The first is an over-sized sense of danger. In reality, police work isn't in the top ten dangerous professions. Indeed, no government job is in the top ten. The second attitude is the self-centered nature of police work. Concern for the public takes a backseat to concern for "officer's safety." This current bunch of cops are about putting people into the system to increase the size and scope of government. When I was on that was the least of our concerns.

Ditto and Spot On

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

IndieTX  posted on  2009-05-20   21:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: wbales, redpanther (#38)

bump

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

IndieTX  posted on  2009-05-20   21:39:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Jethro Tull, lodwick (#45)

Patton could have been elected President. It would have been a very different world.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-20   21:39:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Deasy. all (#49)

Patton could have been elected President. It would have been a very different world.

Deasy - you know that that was not in the ruler's plan.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-05-20   21:46:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Jethro Tull, Sam Houston, Cynicom (#2)

General George Patton once summoned [cartoonist Bill] Mauldin to his office and threatened to "throw his ass in jail" for "spreading dissent," this after one of Mauldin's cartoons made fun of Patton's demand that all soldiers must be clean-shaven at all times, even in combat. But Dwight Eisenhower, the Supreme Commander, told Patton to leave Mauldin alone, because he felt that Mauldin's cartoons gave the soldiers an outlet for their frustrations. Mauldin told an interviewer later, "I always admired Patton. Oh, sure, the stupid bastard was crazy. He was insane. He thought he was living in the Dark Ages. Soldiers were peasants to him. I didn't like that attitude, but I certainly respected his theories and the techniques he used to get his men out of their foxholes.

Dancing Turtles and Bouncing Boobs...that's Turtle Island.

Turtle  posted on  2009-05-20   22:09:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Turtle (#51)

Thanks for that well-timed piece of history, Turtle. For me, it's a reminder that war is a savage business. It shouldn't be pursued unless one understands that.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-20   22:11:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Deasy, all (#49)

And had MacArthur (also politically dispatched) had his way in Korea, China would still be a third world country instead of our landlord.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-05-20   22:15:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Jethro Tull (#53)

Or if we had not taken military action against Japan's iron and petroleum supply lines before Pearl Harbor. They understood the threat of communism. They had an answer to Mao.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-20   22:19:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Deasy (#54)

Yes indeed. Many residents of Nanking still have a vivid memory of Japan.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-05-20   22:23:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Jethro Tull (#55)

Many tragedies in the world provide us with ready excuses to engage in war, including the horrible Nanking massacre. I concern myself with our own troops who could have been spared if we had let well enough alone.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-20   22:33:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Deasy, Jethro Tull (#54)

Or if we had not taken military action against Japan's iron and petroleum supply lines before Pearl Harbor. They understood the threat of communism. They had an answer to Mao.

China's political history in the 19 century is difficult to apprehend. Specialists who are fluent in the language are at odds with each other on some basic concerns.

I might say Mao had an answer to the Japanese invasion of China.

He ran them out with the support of General Joe Stilwell, one of the most interesting and little known aspects of the pre-revolutionary fall of the Koumintang fascist party rule.

And he had about 80 -90% support of the Chinese population.

Chiang Kai-shek was a thoroughly miserable "leader" of China as he was only concerned with the ability of his clan to feed off the misery of the cooolies.

Madame Chiang was a demon.

These were the regime the United States aligned ourselves with, to the eternal disrespect and suspecion of the ComChi .

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-05-20   22:55:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Turtle (#51)

He was insane. He thought he was living in the Dark Ages. Soldiers were peasants to him.

One has to view Mauldins view as that of a man that was NOT a student of war. Every man in the third Army hated Patton, they also would follow him anywhere, because Patton was always UP FRONT with the troops not hanging back in a bunker 30 miles behind the lines.

If you read of our first failure in North Africa, it was Patton that went in and kicked ass of Generals to turn things around. Patton was in the front lines with the troops and asked where the divisional commander was, he was told the culprit was many miles away. Patton went to the bunker, dragged him out and put him on an aircraft bound for the United States.

At the time of Bastonge, where were Bradley, Ike and the rest????? In England enjoying the Christmas holidays. Patton was at the front plotting how to thwart the Germans. Ike and the rest had to hurry to France to "save the day".

Cynicom  posted on  2009-05-20   22:56:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: All (#57)

Chinese revolutionary history only takes a few years to understand. A lifetime to comprehend. Shei-Sheh.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-05-20   22:58:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: lodwick (#37)

A retired Houston PD cop friend told me that if there was not blood involved, do not arrest, file a complaint, or otherwise take up their time filing any paperwork.

This seems very reasonable to me.

Would this include the rape of a sexually active woman where minimal force was used?

A victim may even (*)cooperate if threats are made to her children, for instance.

(*)Of course any act committed by her against her will is not her act, so her lack of resistance does not mitigate the crime.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2009-05-20   23:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Deasy (#41)

I'm getting $11.3 trillion on the above debt clock embed right now.

$11.3 trillion here, $11.3 trillion there and pretty soon you're talking real munny.....

(Well, not real munny but lots of fiat Monopoly bux which effectively render American savings worthless)

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2009-05-20   23:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: HOUNDDAWG (#61)

I wish I could talk to every American today and just ask one question: would you rather have your savings be worth something when you retire, or would you rather have a crumbling Zionist empire?

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-20   23:19:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Deasy, christine, bluegrass, lodwick (#62)

I wish I could talk to every American today and just ask one question: would you rather have your savings be worth something when you retire, or would you rather have a crumbling Zionist empire?

I think I schmell an anti Szchmemite here.

I'll have to check with AJ before I dare reply to this.

Hey, AJ may not be right but he's never wrong, and if I criticize him someone will ask, "What have (I) done to "educate the peepul" lately?"

Apparently, books DVDs and net broadcasts can actually insulate someone from criticism or scrutiny. Hey, all the more reason to capture Jones and make him one of their agents, right?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2009-05-20   23:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: tom007 (#57) (Edited)

These were the regime the United States aligned ourselves with, to the eternal disrespect and suspecion of the ComChi .

Eisenhower wondered aloud to his advisers, how come the side we're on is always corrupt and unsupported by the people.


I've already said too much.

MUDDOG  posted on  2009-05-20   23:35:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: tom007 (#59)

Chinese revolutionary history only takes a few years to understand. A lifetime to comprehend. Shei-Sheh

Excellent quote, Tom.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-05-20   23:36:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Deasy (#0)

The Pattons: A Portrait of an American Family (the first and third stanzas reproduced here were quoted in the movie 1970 film Patton, starring George C. Scott):

is that film an accurate portrayal of Patton, do you think?

The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama

christine  posted on  2009-05-20   23:59:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Cynicom (#58)

Patton was INSANE!!! All great generals are insane. All politicians are evil!!!

The whole world has always been run by evil people and our wars run by insane people.

This is why Turtle stay on Turtle Island deep in the Ozarks where no one can find him. when the evil people start wars and the insane ones fight them.

Dancing Turtles and Bouncing Boobs...that's Turtle Island.

Turtle  posted on  2009-05-21   6:35:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: christine (#66)

is that film an accurate portrayal of Patton, do you think?

I'd need to study Patton more than I have to answer that. And I'd have to watch the film again. It's been a long time.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-21   21:37:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: christine, Itistoolate, Cyincom, Jethro Tull, FormerLurker, Diana, All (#22)

i was thinking about this today and puzzling as to why in the world returning VN vets were treated with scorn. it makes no sense especially when most of you were drafted.

The truth of the war didn't start coming out until around 1970, with the various versions of "The Pentagon Papers." Until then it was a matter of nearly arbitrary extreme positions on the "War."

Around that time, also, there was the awakening/realization of the truth of the war, ala Brown & Root, et al; add the heroin furnished to the troops. Add the revelation that the off-shore oil was the real motive for the War. You know that drill.

There is a classic newspaper picture of a 3-yr old Vietnamese girl wandering down a road, naked & crying. The image was distorted into her being burned by napalm. (a lie) After that "baby killer" was our name.

Returning from that nightmare made vets hide from all of reality, so public consensus won out. The veteran vocalists just ended up fanning a fire that just couldn't be extinguished. Sadly, they were too ignorant to make a dent.

Few involved had any kind or rational perspective. Supposedly, we were fighting to protect American freedom. The paradox was that we had to defend the protestors' right to free speech, ala Jane Fonda.

The fact is that the protestors kept the North Vietnamese going, thanks to the media. In Viet Nam, we dodged the consequent bullets, occasionally stopping a few. The Viet Nam Memorial Wall is a distraction from the reality of the far greater number of seriously wounded & crippled, physically or mentally. Then go to the family/friend ripple-efect. War is the biggest mother-fucker of all. It covers a tremendous spectrum of "effect."

In hindsight, the propaganda worked on those such as myself; while the protestors had the superior cause - but usually for rather simplistic or slimy reasons. They were doing the right thing for generally the wrong reasons. As soon as the draft ended, so did the protests.

Then, everyone wanted to forget, except to throw rocks at the veterans, to maintain a "righteous" claim for past protest activities. The protestors had their share of guilt & shame, but not on a scale with the vets.

Kissinger was effectively "King of America," with the position that soldiers were stupid and undeserving pawns. So, Guess what we got - and still do; NADA! In turn, Nixon, et al, created the legacy, remembered in the book, "Kiss the Boys Goodbye."

Few can appreciate the truly massive protests which nearly took down the U.S. Government. That was no small deal, as we now see even small groups of protestors get the instant Nazi jack-boot treatment, from nearly fatal beatings to jail sentences, for "failure to disperse," when trapped & unable to "disperse."

There was at least THAT lesson learned. God only knows what's ahead.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2009-05-22   15:21:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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