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Title: Austin cop calls into RuleofLawRadio (audio)--Very interesting
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Published: May 24, 2009
Author: Randy Kelton & Deborah Stevens
Post Date: 2009-05-24 12:46:21 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 2644
Comments: 32
http://mp3.ruleoflawradio.com/ROL/64k/ROL_2009-05-22_64k_Hr3&4.mp3---the call begins at 1 hr 40 mins http://mp3.ruleoflawradio.com/ROL/64k/ROL_2009-05-23_64k_After_Midnight.mp3---continuation
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#1. To: PSUSA, Artisan, Jethro Tull, IndieTx, Critter, HOUNDDAWG (#0)
ping
The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama
The system is rigged. TEXAS LAW IS WHAT THE POWER SAYS IT IS. THE SYSTEM WANTS YOUR FREAKING MONEY AND PROPERTY. Going directly to a magistrate isn’t going to fix this TAX GRAB because the FREAKING MAGISTRATE IS PART OF THE SYSTEM that wants your money and property. Comprendo folks? Want to fix the system? Guns will fix the system. Over and out.
1:55 into the first segment: call in officer says that we're free because we can sit at home and watch any TV we want, or buy any kind of food we wish late at night? But we can't use lawful procedures to make civic points. Are we free or not? The law sets us free, because it assures us protection of our lives and property, and our other rights. Without the law, we would have anarchy. Choices of entertainment and food do not make us free.
Can someone please show me the law cited by Randy that states all arrested persons must be brought before a magistrate immediately upon arrest? He might be right, but there is no time in American law enforcement history, to my knowledge, that this was ever the practice. In NYC I'd guess there are many thousands of arrests during a typical weekend. I can only imagine the number of magistrates that would have to be made available 24x7x367 to satisfy this law, which again, I've never heard of. Perhaps it's a TX thing?
I've never heard of this, but I've never been arrested, yet.
We're getting too old to be arrest Lodi. It's getting so they can just snatch our car keys and tell us to stay put and that will serve their purpose.
What an ignorant asshole pig
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
True enough.;-)
law.onecle.com/texas/criminal-procedure/14.06.00.html law.onecle.com/texas/criminal-procedure/15.17.00.html I would suggest that a Magistrate would have been involved even in New York City. At some point or another, very soon after the arrest, a magistrate will have reviewed the case. This is in the Magna Carta, as the hostess Deborah Stevens suggests. See 17 to 22. By the way, that's a very interesting Magna Carta online site, and well worth exploring.
Early on in section two he makes an anonymous reference to Alex Jones getting himself arrested for refusing to give a fingerprint. He also makes a snide remark about tax protesters saying that "obscure" interpretations of laws that imply that they don't owe taxes. As Randy says at 10:00 into section two, this is about the judges, not the officers. At least this one is listening and debating with the hosts of the show.
If most American women, let alone Texas women, had half the spine and intelligence of Deborah, we'd have no trouble with our liberties.
yep, she's quite the activist and she's a close friend of mine. ;) (that was some good talk radio. good callers and discussion after Ben hung up)
The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama
I comprendo Jethro. Apparently far too many texans don't. They settled for 8 years of bush as gov of texas and then voted overwhelmingly to elect him as president. In fact they support the whole damn bush crime family. They are so stupid, I'm sure, they still don't get it and probably believe this rogue cop from austin is correct in his assessment of the laws controlling their lives. You are most right when you say guns will fix the system and only guns.
Randy and Deborah on the site.
JUST WHY MAY I ASK? Should RIGHTS be put on hold because a robed TYRANT is too good to work on weekends, holidays and nights??????? Millions of the rest of us must work 24 hour shifts that change. But then, lawyers aren't peasants are they????????????????????
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
Good question. Having a magistrate review the case within 48 hours is better than nothing. With the new military commissions acts, still in effect under Obama, technically no one has any assurance of access to independent judicial review of arrest. All the authorities have to do is accuse a citizen of being a terrorist, and the military has total jurisdiction. Obama is talking about restoring independent reviews of these arrests, but how far beyond the executive branch they fall, we have yet to know.
Discussing the LegalIndustrialComplex gives it credibility where there is none, much as arguing the merits between the two party fraud. The ameriKan "justice" [SIC] slash prison system never was, isn't and won't ever be about Justice or Truth.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
TX - You and JT have been inside the belly of the beast and have a perspective that none of the rest of us can ever have, or even want to have, imo.
In my state (DE) persons have the right to be taken forthwith to the nearest magistrate even if we dispute a traffic citation. (And, for all other arrests they are arraigned before a magistrate, either in person or by video conference where bail is set.) If the magistrate agrees with the cop (if it's a state trooper (DeStaPo agent) they always agree out of bare fear of not being re-confirmed if they piss off the staties) then the magistrate will offer the arrestee the choice of signing the citation or going to jail. But, one can also allow the magistrate to decide the case then and there, schedule for a later hearing or move the case into the DE Court OF Common Pleas and have a jury or certified law judge decide the case. DE has responded to all attempts to defeat the traffic revenue scam by passing more and more cop-friendly laws such, cops don't have to automatically show for the preliminary hearing (in Common Pleas Court), they don't have to provide the serial number or calibration certificate for any electronic speed detection devices, etc.,. I gigged with a weekend country musician years ago who was a magistrate. (This is an indication of the political nature of the appointments. Another magistrate, a woman was a school bus driver and a well known bluegrass musician. She looked like Madalyn Murray O'Hair and dressed like Pat-the androgynous SNL character) Years later I called my pal to express my condolences (his first wife, the singer in his old band had died in a one car accident late at night-alcohol involved) and to my surprise I learned that he was worried he wouldn't be re-confirmed because he was a Republican, our Senior Senator Tom Carper was then governor and the senate was DEM controlled. Even though I assured him that the political patronage system was dead and he was a damn fine judge (I sat in his court at times when I was working downtown) he was genuinely concerned that PUB Mike Castle was gone and DEM Carper was governor. It just so happened that the venerable and most feared Senate Majority Leader who was holding the hit list of soon-to-be-former-magistrates (those who had failed to dutifully uphold every state police arrest as if G_D himself had decreed it) was my state senator, so I called him and asked if my fellow kuntree kruhner was on the hit list. The senator said "No, Jim. Tell your friend that if I don't know his name then he's safe!" I called my pal back and told him the good news, but he still sweated it until he heard it from the horsie's mouth and was re-confirmed for another 6 years. (I also told the Director of Fish & Wildlife that the Joint Finance Committee was not going to allow the governor to swipe their general funds and I could guarantee it. On the night of the hearing he thanked the senior rep who I had "delivered" and said "Jim told me that this was going our way months ago but I haven't slept well for a while!" (For some reason state officers found it hard to believe that a lowly, under-the-RADAR no body like mee could deliver anything.) Under English Common Law the magistrate only issued warrants upon sworn oath or affirmation (a wonderful bar to frivolous arrests and prosecutions) and in so doing protected the people from zealots with badges, vindictive neighbors and relatives and the King's tax collectors. These days much of the protection is routinely thwarted by perjured depositions, but it's still preferable to a cop, bureauRat or politician throwing their enemies in jail on a whim while answering to no one. The system in DE really blows now (our protection has been removed because the magistrates are not independent of the Masonic State Cop-dominated legislature) and no magistrate would dare tell a Delaware State Trooper ((DeStaPo agent) that he/she was wrong to make an arrest or that the magistrate doesn't believe the cop's story. (But, if some small town cop, county officer or bridge and tunnel authority patrolman arrests for one mile over the limit the magistrates will still dismiss those cases) The Delaware State Police (DeStaPo) have so much influence in the legislature that the system has been turned on its head and the magistrates jump through the hoops to keep their seats. A friend of mine was arrested a few years back when he brandished his .45 in the presence of a pack of young nig....I mean, African Americans who menaced him outside his home. To make a long story short he was wrong to leave the safety of his home then claim he was protecting himself from a group of "black yewts" who had stolen two aluminum bats from his pickup truck, and I gave him Hell for not calling me first. (His 10% bail to the bondsmen was non refundable and was more than the two baseball bats were worth, not to mention he was facing felony charges) He was arrested by a woman county cop who then dropped him off at the jail and proceeded to go on a manhunt for some bandito, and my friend was in pain because he had run his thumb through a table saw two days before and he didn't have his pain meds with him. I called the magistrate and explained that the man and I have an agreement to act in each other's stead if for any reason the other cannot do so, and I demanded that the man be brought before the magistrate immediately. The clerk made a phone call and then phoned me to say that the coppess was on a manhunt, and I said "That's not (my friend's) problem. He has the right to be admitted to bail, he's in great pain and this amounts to torture of a man who is being held incommunicado" and I asked if it would serve any purpose for me to scribble a writ of habeas corpus out and bring it to the night magistrate on duty. The clerk apparently spoke with the magistrate then called the county police and the coppess was forced to abandon the exciting made for TV police search for El Guapo (or whoever the bandito was) and bring my friend to court so he could make bail, get out and take his pain meds. Just before he was released the cop jailer said, "I just want you to know that your friend Jim has been working to get you out of here!" The cop didn't actually admit that I had succeeded in forcing the woman officer into forfeiting her big chance to make a name for herself, to possibly catch a malo hombre and to carve a notch on her pistola by shooting someone. And fortunately for my friend the county police doesn't scare the magistrates the way the state police do, and I was able to expedite the man's release with a "verbal writ of habeas corpus". If someone is arrested in any state (not just being held for 48 hrs for questioning or to dry out from a bender) then they can use their phone call to contact a local magistrate and claim they're being held incommunicado, denied the right to bail and in general being punished by a vindictive police officer, and ask the magistrate (or the clerk) if the magistrate will entertain a verbal writ of habeas corpus from an unlawfully detained prisoner, and then the prisoner may get satisfaction. The magistrate has the power to compel the officer to immediately produce the prisoner and that is one of the functions of the magistrate-to protect justice, not just to rubber stamp every arrest. YOU CAN BEAT THE CHARGE BUT YOU CAN'T BEAT THE RIDE! Don't argue on the side of the road (*unless you're taping it heh heh) but move it into a forum that the cop doesn't control ASAP! That can usually be done with a phone call.
And a damn fine musician, too! ;)
I agree, Dawg. Thanks for relating those stories.
Thank you Deasy. There is the material I wanted. In NYC, and I use example because that's all I know, the person arrested is processed thru central booking, where by an officer acting in your behalf, and on your complaint, brings the perp (and many others) before a judge. The key words in the above are "or have them taken" and "not later than 48 hours". The argument I heard made the assumption that the arresting officer is required to bring the person arrested before a judge ASAP.
To my knowledge, most all TX judges have to stand for election from time to time. Racking what's left of my mind to think of any appointed ones...
I believe that's the law in Texas, where meaning that "as soon as possible" is 48 hours or much earlier preferably. It's reasonable to ask that this be immediate but I recognize that there is room for debate. My main concern here is that the military commissions act technically requires no such visit. If the military decides that a citizen, say you, has become an enemy combatant and a known terrorist, you can be held indefinitely without even local authorities discovering the fact. Locally, if Texans are concerned about the letter of this law not being followed, I'm sympathetic to them. Like (I think) Randy says, officials should be worried that citizens are watching their every move.
We all have to be as concerned as Randy and Deb. My one and only point is that we go to "war" armed with material that is accurate. From any reasonable reading of the statute you posted, there is a 48 hour window of time before a prisoner is required to see a magistrate. Furthermore, an appointee of the officer can bring him, or him and others, before the magistrate within that time frame *without* the officer being present. That's what we did, and that's what I take from the TX statute.
Right on. I'm tired of falsely incendiary language. There is so much to outrage in subtle, technical use of law that we should avoid misleading people on an inflammatory basis.
=============================== To who?
Is he a criminal? Did he rape a little girl in his squad car? Did he beat the fuck out of a family and then charge them with battery on a police officer? Did he spray and pray a few dozen rounds at a completely innocent man with a cellphone? Did he smash an innocent persons head into a wall and put him in a coma? Did he use a broomstick in ... a way they weren't intended to be used? Anything less that that doesn't even make me irritated anymore. .
It's a forum post, not a doctoral thesis. Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
Good post. Thanks for the ping.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. =============================== To who? To the magistrate, at home or at the court. You know, in the "old days" small town speed traps actually took out of state speeders to the magistrate's home if it was night time, and they allowed the speeders to pay the fine or post bail and return for a court hearing. Many were told that if they pleaded guilty and paid then the offense "wouldn't go on their record". Of course in those cases the money was split between the cop and the magistrate. (and no record of the ticket was ever kept-most people still preferred being fleeced to having their insurance rates go up) It's not unusual to find the magistrate's home and court phone numbers in the phone book, and the police may give it to you if you don't piss them off before asking. And, I'm betting that most states have a magistrate on duty 'round the clock now. But, if not, you can wake one up just as the police do when they need a warrant in a hurry. It's perfectly legal and you have the right to call day or night if your freedom is in jeopardy.
From what I can gather, there are only a handful of states that still have county magistrates. Collectively, our judicial system has succumbed to the same types of corruption older countries have, from the local level to the highest levels. Americans have finally caught up with the rest of the world.
I'd have to say that you were misled by the info you read. Most states I checked had listings for the magistrates. (exception for MINN) Select a Louisiana City to view Magistrate Courts Listings (LA uses JPs, Mayors' Courts and Magistrates) New York State Magistrates Association Select a Florida City to view Magistrate Courts Listings In Wyoming, lay magistrates are part of the circuit court: "Some circuit court magistrates are considered to be part-time and are not required to be law trained, but if they are law-trained, they may conduct a private practice of law. A lay magistrate's authority is limited by statute, but a law-trained magistrate may perform all the duties of the circuit judge. Lay magistrates are primarily located in remote areas of our sparsely populated state." VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, OH, all use magistrates but Vermont uses the title for family court matters only. In other matters hearing officers or judges will preside over the first trial. In that case, one would simply wake up any judge of the state and plead for relief from unlawful incarceration. Obviously, judges are available day and night in the state, if for no other reason for emergency warrants under exigent circs. The simple fact is in every state sworn oaths are required for the issuance of warrants, and that requires some judicial officer to be available around the clock, 27/7/365. And since bigshot judges may not want to be awakened for such mundane tasks, those states will have some equivalent judicial officer to handle night service, and that is who will also have the power to act on a writ of habeas corpus. Duties of an Indiana Magistrate Colfax County (New Mexico) Magistrate Court to Hold DWI Sentencing Hearing at Raton High School Of course you qualified your post with "county magistrates" and I'm not sure why, but a magistrate is a state officer (as is a justice of the peace) and perhaps that's why you found very few in your search.
#2. To: christine (#1)
(Edited)
#3. To: christine, Jethro Tull, PSUSA, Artisan, IndieTx, Critter, HOUNDDAWG (#2)
#4. To: Deasy, someone (#3)
magistrate
#5. To: Jethro Tull (#4)
Perhaps it's a TX thing?
#6. To: lodwick (#5)
#7. To: Deasy (#3)
1:55 into the first segment: call in officer says that we're free because we can sit at home and watch any TV we want, or buy any kind of food we wish late at night? But we can't use lawful procedures to make civic points. Are we free or not? The law sets us free, because it assures us protection of our lives and property, and our other rights. Without the law, we would have anarchy. Choices of entertainment and food do not make us free.
#8. To: Jethro Tull. geezers here (#6)
We're getting too old to be arrest Lodi. It's getting so they can just snatch our car keys and tell us to stay put and that will serve their purpose.
#9. To: Jethro Tull (#4)
Art. 14.06. [217] [264] [252] MUST TAKE OFFENDER BEFORE MAGISTRATE. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), in each case enumerated in this Code, the person making the arrest or the person having custody of the person arrested shall take the person arrested or have him taken without unnecessary delay, but not later than 48 hours after the person is arrested, before the magistrate who may have ordered the arrest, before some magistrate of the county where the arrest was made without an order, or, to provide more expeditiously to the person arrested the warnings described by Article 15.17 of this Code, before a magistrate in any other county of this state. The magistrate shall immediately perform the duties described in Article 15.17 of this Code.
Art. 15.17. DUTIES OF ARRESTING OFFICER AND MAGISTRATE. (a) In each case enumerated in this Code, the person making the arrest or the person having custody of the person arrested shall without unnecessary delay, but not later than 48 hours after the person is arrested, take the person arrested or have him taken before some magistrate of the county where the accused was arrested or, to provide more expeditiously to the person arrested the warnings described by this article, before a magistrate in any other county of this state.
XXIX. Imprisonment, &c. contrary to Law. Administration of Justice. NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.
Weekends and nights are considered reasonable exceptions in the Texas law, as they should be. Keeping the peace should not be restrained by the lack of access to a magistrate.
#10. To: IndieTX, lodwick, Jethro Tull, Artisan, PSUSA (#7)
#11. To: christine (#1)
#12. To: Deasy (#11)
(Edited)
#13. To: Jethro Tull, christine (#2)
Comprendo folks? Want to fix the system? Guns will fix the system. Over and out.
#14. To: christine (#12)
http://ruleoflawradio.com/ruleoflawradiocontact.htm
#15. To: Deasy, ALL (#9)
(Edited)
Weekends and nights are considered reasonable exceptions in the Texas law, as they should be. Keeping the peace should not be restrained by the lack of access to a magistrate.
#16. To: IndieTX, *Obama Reality Check* (#15)
#17. To: Deasy, jethro tull (#16)
#18. To: IndieTX, Jethro Tull (#17)
#19. To: Jethro Tull, christine, lodwick, James Deffenbach, Deasy, HAPPY2BME-4UM, bluegrass, Original Intent, bush_is_a_moonie (#4)
Can someone please show me the law cited by Randy that states all arrested persons must be brought before a magistrate immediately upon arrest?
#20. To: christine (#12)
yep, she's quite the activist and she's a close friend of mine. ;)
#21. To: HOUNDDAWG (#19)
YOU CAN BEAT THE CHARGE BUT YOU CAN'T BEAT THE RIDE!
#22. To: Deasy (#9)
or have him taken without unnecessary delay, but not later than 48 hours after the person is arrested
#23. To: HOUNDDAWG, all (#20)
#24. To: Jethro Tull (#22)
The argument I heard made the assumption that the arresting officer is required to bring the person arrested before a judge ASAP.
#25. To: Deasy (#24)
Like (I think) Randy says, officials should be worried that citizens are watching their every move.
#26. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
My one and only point is that we go to "war" armed with material that is accurate.
#27. To: HOUNDDAWG (#19)
That can usually be done with a phone call.
#28. To: christine, IndieTX, all (#0)
It's a fine line between being too specific and long winded and therefore too irritating to bother to read, and being too cryptic and therefore too irritating to try to interpret.
#29. To: HOUNDDAWG (#19)
Lord Acton
#30. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#27)
That can usually be done with a phone call.
#31. To: HOUNDDAWG (#30)
#32. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#31)
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